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Thread: Leaky Saints

  1. #1
    EastBaySteez
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well Leaky Saints

    So the dumb @$$ that I am...
    I was bleeding my saints yesterday and forgot to stick the 10mm wrench in the caliper. Well the pistons came all the way out, I pushed them back in and went about my business with the bleed.

    But now there is fluid coming out around the pistons when the lever is depressed.
    And let me tell you about lack of power and Im pretty sure the pads are screwed over too...

    Did I screw myself over?
    Gamut
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  2. #2
    Meh.
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    There are no caliper rebuild kits available. Send it off to Shimano and hope for a warranty.

  3. #3
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    Let me understand something will...shimano brakes (xt,xtr,saints) in case that a piston pops out you can`t push the piston back in there, do a bleed and voila?...Or do you have to send them to shimano so they can put the piston back in?...

    thanks!

  4. #4
    Meh.
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    You can push the piston back in, but if the seal is bufu (it sounds like it is in this case) there's nothing you can do. Even the two-piece calipers like the Deore and LX don't have any rebuild or service parts.

    I guess you could pop it back out and try to push back in nice and square while making sure that the seal isn't binding or folded over on itself.

  5. #5
    EastBaySteez
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    Well I doubt that they will warranty.
    Considering that I've been running my Saints with off the shelf Mineral oil from Safeway.
    Gamut
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  6. #6
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    I ask this because when I was lubbing my pistons and was pulling the lever on of the pistons just pops from one side, letting mineral oil go out...it just pop`s out from one corner...the rest of the pisto was inside...I pushed it inmediatly back into place...Also before that, sometimes the pistons just protude more than one side of the same piston than the other..in conclussion the piston protudes unevenly...it happened sometimes...

    Could this be bad?...The braking is good, but after reading your post it seems like they are from porcelain...damn...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by motormonkeyr6
    Well I doubt that they will warranty.
    Considering that I've been running my Saints with off the shelf Mineral oil from Safeway.

    Your seals are junk.
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  8. #8
    SLX
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    Quote Originally Posted by motormonkeyr6
    Well I doubt that they will warranty.
    Considering that I've been running my Saints with off the shelf Mineral oil from Safeway.
    If you cant warranty it then try flushing the old stuff out and bleeding with real shimano oil. Maybe you can get the stuff to diffuse back out of the seals? Unless they are cracked. Then you can warranty them.


    Sorry from were I am from safeways are grocery stores? Have you been bleeding your brakes with stuff from the pharmacy?

    If your going to use DIY products maybe get a DOT brake next time.
    Leave no bolt untuned!

  9. #9
    EastBaySteez
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLX
    If you cant warranty it then try flushing the old stuff out and bleeding with real shimano oil. Maybe you can get the stuff to diffuse back out of the seals? Unless they are cracked. Then you can warranty them.


    Sorry from were I am from safeways are grocery stores? Have you been bleeding your brakes with stuff from the pharmacy?

    If your going to use DIY products maybe get a DOT brake next time.
    yup from the pharmacy. It gives a great lever feel. Super strong.

    I'll try rebleeding with shimano oil but I have a bad feeling it wont do squat. That shiznit is expensive...
    Gamut
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by motormonkeyr6
    yup from the pharmacy. It gives a great lever feel. Super strong.

    I'll try rebleeding with shimano oil but I have a bad feeling it wont do squat. That shiznit is expensive...
    Stuff eats rubber also. How long has the Slaveway stuff been in their??
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  11. #11
    EastBaySteez
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Stuff eats rubber also. How long has the Slaveway stuff been in their??
    3 months?
    Gamut
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by motormonkeyr6
    3 months?
    You might get lucky flushing with Real mineral fluid for brakes like SLX suggested. Go to a moto dealer & pick up some Spectro mineral fluid it's cheaper to buy the fluids at a moto dealer than the LBS & you get more.
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  13. #13
    EastBaySteez
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    You might get lucky flushing with Real mineral fluid for brakes like SLX suggested. Go to a moto dealer & pick up some Spectro mineral fluid it's cheaper to buy the fluids at a moto dealer than the LBS & you get more.
    hmmm that will be this weekends rainy day project. I think Im gonna tear down the bike and give it a good cleaning. Its about time...
    Gamut
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  14. #14
    EastBaySteez
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    Im giving up and sending it in today.
    Re-bled it with good mineral oil, same thing.
    Gamut
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  15. #15
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    Don't tell them that you bled with the wrong mineral oil...

    This is why you should use the proper stuff...

    There have been other threads where brakes have failed because the user had bled the brakes with something other than Shimano mineral oil in an effort to save money.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by motormonkeyr6
    Im giving up and sending it in today.
    Re-bled it with good mineral oil, same thing.
    I saw a Shimano rep lurking on this post earlier.
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  17. #17
    EastBaySteez
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    Don't tell them that you bled with the wrong mineral oil...

    This is why you should use the proper stuff...

    There have been other threads where brakes have failed because the user had bled the brakes with something other than Shimano mineral oil in an effort to save money.
    Again I have to say that I dont believe that it was the oil that caused the brake failure. It was that the pistons came out and ruined the seal. I absolutely loved the lever and brake power with the "no brand laxative " mineral oil.

    I had it in there for over 3 months and there were no problems up until the pistons came out.

    I will use it again in the future, just remember to keep the pistons in...
    Gamut
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  18. #18
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    New question here.

    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    You can push the piston back in, but if the seal is bufu (it sounds like it is in this case) there's nothing you can do. Even the two-piece calipers like the Deore and LX don't have any rebuild or service parts.

    I guess you could pop it back out and try to push back in nice and square while making sure that the seal isn't binding or folded over on itself.

    Hmm, i was under the impression that because my Hones were 2 piece that i could eventually if need be change the seals myself. This is a little dissapointing. Im assuming that the only thing that could possibly need changing is the seal.. would it be possible to get a generic o-ring in there to do the job??

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by motormonkeyr6
    Again I have to say that I dont believe that it was the oil that caused the brake failure. It was that the pistons came out and ruined the seal. I absolutely loved the lever and brake power with the "no brand laxative " mineral oil.

    I had it in there for over 3 months and there were no problems up until the pistons came out.

    I will use it again in the future, just remember to keep the pistons in...
    Why? That's just dumb. The brake power shouldn't change by using the PROPER stuff. Nor should your lever feel... a liquid is (practically speaking) not compressible. And you're eliminating a factor that could've (and probably did) foul those seals.

    It shouldn't matter. I've popped out pistons on my Hayes and J7s and didn't have problems. In fact, I did it on purpose with my J7s so that I could polish the calipers.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsyCro
    Hmm, i was under the impression that because my Hones were 2 piece that i could eventually if need be change the seals myself. This is a little dissapointing. Im assuming that the only thing that could possibly need changing is the seal.. would it be possible to get a generic o-ring in there to do the job??
    BTI and QBP do not carry any parts to service or rebuild. They have to go back to Shimano. I don't think it's just a normal o-ring. It's a square seal. It kind of rolls/walks so the piston can extend and retract.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    BTI and QBP do not carry any parts to service or rebuild. They have to go back to Shimano. I don't think it's just a normal o-ring. It's a square seal. It kind of rolls/walks so the piston can extend and retract.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    BTI and QBP do not carry any parts to service or rebuild. They have to go back to Shimano. I don't think it's just a normal o-ring. It's a square seal. It kind of rolls/walks so the piston can extend and retract.

    MAN that sucks.. friggin' Shitmano! Got any pics of the interals btw? Im really interested how a square seal 'rolls/walks'.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    You might get lucky flushing with Real mineral fluid for brakes like SLX suggested. Go to a moto dealer & pick up some Spectro mineral fluid it's cheaper to buy the fluids at a moto dealer than the LBS & you get more.

    or in place of shimano...

    http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/bikemineraloil.htm

  24. #24
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    Look up square seals. Pretty much the seal not only keeps fluid in, but it helps the piston retract too.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    Look up square seals. Pretty much the seal not only keeps fluid in, but it helps the piston retract too.

    aha.. i see now. O-rings with a square 'material' circumfurencem for lack of better words. Before, you mentioned square 'seals', and the moment i read that, 'o-rings' didnt even come to mind.

    Maybe automotive parts suppliers have'em??

    Oh, and one more thing while im at it. I read on the net that square o-rings do not seal nearly as well as normal ones. But maybe brakes use quad rings??
    Here's a quote from the net..
    The four-lobed design provides twice the sealing surface in comparison to a standard o-ring. The double-seal action requires less squeeze to maintain an effective seal. This reduction in squeeze means less friction and improved seal life.
    found that on.. http://www.marcorubber.com/quad_rings.htm

    and a few more links in case anyone is interested
    http://www.afmusa.com/doc_generator.asp?doc_id=3268
    http://www.afmusa.com/doc_generator.asp?doc_id=3251
    Last edited by PsyCro; 01-25-2008 at 09:47 AM.

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