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  1. #1
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    The Juicy brake turkey warble/vibration MEGA THREAD

    I figured since this problem is so widespread it deserved its own thread. So if anyone has this problem post up here. Hopefully we can find a real cause/solution to this problem.

    So here's the info we have on the problem:

    *Usually only the rear brake makes a loud squealing noise, that may sound like a turkey warbling.

    *The noise is accompanied by a vibration that can be felt throughout the bike, including the saddle and handlebars.

    *The brake works fine despite the terrible noise.

    *Some people have done nothing and the problem eventually cleared itself up. Possibly from breaking in of the pads and rotor. Others have had no luck after the brakes should have broken in.

    *Some people have cleaned, sanded, or replaced their brake pads and the problem cleared up. Others have done all of the above to no avail.

    *Replacing the rotors with the same avid rotor, another brand rotor, or another size rotor has fixed the problem for some, but not all.

    *Anti-squeal brake spray for cars has solved the problem for some, but many do not recommend this treatment because it supposedly contaminates the pads.

    This is all I can think of off the top of my head. Let me know what you guys can come up with and I'll add it to this post. Hopefully we can come up with a solution!

  2. #2
    ride hard take risks
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnniewalker85

    *Anti-squeal brake spray for cars has solved the problem for some, but many do not recommend this treatment because it supposedly contaminates the pads.
    Anti-squeal goes on the back of the pad it does not contaminate the pads braking area.
    Formotion Products
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  3. #3
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    Anyone shim out the calipers a little????? Looking at my rotors I see an 1/8" or less of space with no pad contact on the outside rotor surface and on the inside I see that the pad contact area is off the disk and on the spokes?arms? of the disk by about the same. Under regular braking no problems but under hard brakes I get the pulse/grab. Maybe the pad angles in on hard brakes and the pulse is when it strikes the spokes holding the disk??
    I don't know? should be this difficult to get some smooth brakes!
    Yes new g2 rotors and new pads are on it. Brake bleed done as well.

  4. #4
    wants a taco
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    if your getting this problem, call avid. We have had a couple customers come through our shop with this problem and everytime avid has made it right by either replacing the rotor or in some cases the entire brake system

  5. #5
    dweeby
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    I had probs both front and rear and nothing would stop it untill after a year of messing around with washers, changing the bolts to stainless steel etc I found these pads. The name may be daft but they worked for me. Cheap and silent.
    One other thing, although copper grease dose go on the back of the pads, the original Avid pads have holes in the backing of the pads and it WILL work through to the pad. I found out!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
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    I'm having the turkey trouble with my rear avid juicy 5. So far I've tried sanding the pads, cleaning the rotor, and re-calibrating them (loosen mounting bolts, sqeeze the brake lever and re-tighten), to no avail. Sometimes it goes away but always comes back. I've noticed a very slight warp in the rotor which I suspect is the source of the problem. I'm going to call avid as sugested above and see what happens.

    One other thing I notice which may or may not be related--my casette wobbles quite a bit as the whell turns, which I've read is fairly normal, but I wonder if it contributes to the apparent rotor warp. I wonder this because when I remove the rotor and lay it on a flat surface I see no warp, I can only see it when I peer down the rotor as it's spinning on the wheel, in relation to the pads. Just a thought but I wonder if there is a connection here--I also wonder this because it seems to be more common on the rear wheel.

  7. #7
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    Rex that's a good point. But could it be that everyone who has the warble is having it because of wobble in the rear hub?

  8. #8
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    For what it's worth.

    The Juicy 7's (2007) on both my wife's and my bike developed the hated "turkey gobble" after about 6 months of riding on both the front and back brakes.

    BOTH brakes were fixed after doing the following:
    - bleeding the system.
    - changing the rotors to non-Avid (one has Galfer and the other Hayes)
    - changing the pads (Galfer on the Galfer rotors and Avid organics on the Hayes)

    A year later...
    we both still have no noise issues and great braking.

    I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
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  9. #9
    narCOTIC
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    I just got some superstar components pads for my carbons (although i didn't have the turkey thing going on, i did have some noise back there), and they are completely silent after a few rides! They are real cheap too, and have much better modulation than the stock avid pads

  10. #10
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    The turkey comes and goes on my 08 Juicy 7's, all standard aint touched a thing, one day it's there one day it aint.
    Braking is fine so it doesn't bother me, it's a relatively low sounding squeal, if it was real high pitch I would be doing something about it sharpish.

  11. #11
    LCW
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    After about probably 80miles - my Juicy 5's (185/160) are working AMAZING!! Initally they were a little bit noisier, but nothing out of the ordinary. A hint of squeak once in a while on the front if there's a bit of moisture. Otherwise very quiet and amazingly efficient and powerful. I'm very satisfied with my J5's!!

    (check out this vid from the collective on the saint brakes http://www.thecollectivefilm.com/pro...ground_qt.html
    - check out towards the end when Vanderham does his run - that is way noisier than my ever were... just to put in perspective)....

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    After about probably 80miles - my Juicy 5's (185/160) are working AMAZING!! Initally they were a little bit noisier, but nothing out of the ordinary. A hint of squeak once in a while on the front if there's a bit of moisture. Otherwise very quiet and amazingly efficient and powerful. I'm very satisfied with my J5's!!

    (check out this vid from the collective on the saint brakes http://www.thecollectivefilm.com/pro...ground_qt.html
    - check out towards the end when Vanderham does his run - that is way noisier than my ever were... just to put in perspective)....

    My Juicy 3s are about as noisy or maybe more noisy than the ones in the video. Still haven't figured out a fix. I might try to ride them and see if the break in.

  13. #13
    Not dead yet, just playin
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    Make sure one of the pistons isn't sticking in the caliper. I've found that J7s work best when the rotor isn't deflected at all. Over time, a piston will start to get a little sticky in the caliper and not move as much as the opposite piston. This results in the rotor being deflected over to the "sticky" side and after a short time, uneven pad wear. Once the pads start to wear at an angle, it goes bad quickly. New pads fix the problem temporarily, but it doesn't take long for the new pads to wear at an angle if the piston is still sticky.

    So, pull the pads out and squeeze the lever a few times. Look to see if one of the pistons is moving more than the other. If one is sticky, hold the other piston in it's bore with a tire-lever or screwdriver and pump the lever, forcing the sticky piston out. Make sure to not push it completely out of the caliper. I drip a couple drops of DOT fluid where the piston meets the caliper. Push the piston back in and repeat until both pistons are moving equally.

    op
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  14. #14
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    You need a couple of small washers to bring the caliper out/up a bit. The cause is from the brake pads grabbing the rotor arms slightly, you need to get the pads rubbing the disc outer only. Braking on the rotor arms gives u the 'gobble' noise. Check the wear on your rotors, if its going down the arms slightly, get it up using washers

  15. #15
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    I think it's toe-in

    I'm convinced this is a simple pad toe-in problem. In 20 months and 1.5k miles on a pair of J7s with G2 rotors I've had the warble 4 or 5 times, front or rear seemingly equal. For me the problem has occurred 100% of the time immediately or soon after pulling and re-installing the pads or re-centering to correct for a dragging pad.

    The first time it occurred I tried many of the standard fixes people use; cleaning and sanding pads, shimming the caliper out, sanding rotor, specing the installation. All to no avail, still the warble. Then I happened to do a wheel stand on steep step-up and on the next downhill no more Howl ... permanently. What had happened?

    I believe installing pads or spreading them to realign can some times inadvertently cause them to be cocked on the centering pin. This causes incorrect toe-in and incomplete contact with the piston and hence the Howl. If the pad is cocked with the leading edge away from the piston normal braking corrects the issue. if the pad is cocked with the trailing edge away from the piston, normal braking continues to pull it away and the Howl persists.

    The wheel stand on an incline put reverse pressure on the rotors and settled the pads onto the piston. Since that first time I have been able to silence the warble immediately 100% of the time by firmly applying the offending brake and rotating the wheel backward and forward lightly to settle the pad in. These fixes have all been permanent silence for me until I fiddled with the brake set-up for one reason or other.


    This accounts for why all of the fixes people use work or don't in a seemingly random manner. All of them involve operations that can inadvertently cause or correct the pad toe-in issue; sometimes you fix it, some times you cause it.

    Shane

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan123
    You need a couple of small washers to bring the caliper out/up a bit. The cause is from the brake pads grabbing the rotor arms slightly, you need to get the pads rubbing the disc outer only. Braking on the rotor arms gives u the 'gobble' noise. Check the wear on your rotors, if its going down the arms slightly, get it up using washers
    I don't think this is the cause of the Gobble noise.
    I've checked all the rotors on our two bikes for this and it was NOT an issue as the pads made perfect contact with the rotors.
    Changing the rotors was the only cure that worked for me.

    Further to this, a friend of mine is running Juicys with Shimano rotors (with a much narrower braking surface that Avids) has his pads making contact with the rotor arms...
    no noise.

    I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
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  17. #17
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    So to insure that the back of the pads are true with the pistons, lightly apply the brake and push the bike forwards and backwards before you align the caliper to the rotor. What happens when the pad material is uneven-do the pads need to be replaced?

  18. #18
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    HATE THEM. They're on ebay now. I'm getting real brakes like formula
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  19. #19
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    I have Avid Juicy 5's and I have the honking noise intermittently. It used to happen on every ride, usually about a mile or so in. But I only get the noise when I'm NOT braking. If I lightly pull on the rear brake lever it stops but as soon as I release it the noise comes back. So I started cleaning my rotors with MEK after every ride and now I only get the noise occasionally and not even for the whole ride. I read in Mountain Bike Action magazine that Kool Stop pads will help eliminate the noise. So I priced Kool Stop pads and they are around $15 or so, if I remember right. Compare that to replacement Avid pads at around $3 and for 5 times as much it should cure the problem. I haven't gotten them yet because, as I said, the problem has gotten much better. I'm probably going to just keep riding with things as they are as long as the problem doesn't get any worse.

  20. #20
    MNTNBKR
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    Just installed Juicy Three's and my rear brake is making the "gobble" noise as well as vibrating my entire bike when I apply a lot of pressure to it. I've done what everyone else has done including; clean the rotors and pads, reposition the caliper, and make sure the rotor is straight and tightly secured to the hub. Each of these solutions worked for about 1 mile of riding then the annoyance came back.

    Has anyone found a 100% effective solution to this problem, ASIDE from buying entirely new brakes? I like the way the Juicys feel and look and I got a good price on them.
    Durango, CO

  21. #21
    Ridin' dirty!
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    My first AVID Juicy brakes were the 5's and they were constantly suffering from sticky pistons.
    replaced them with JUICY 7 and NEVER had any issues. The only time I had a squeal was in very humid conditions and during maybe a week of brake in time.
    Got Juicy LE carbon now and still no issues...What kind of bikes 'yall have?
    Maybe if the rear end is not stiff enough you can't get them adjusted properly.
    Just my 2 cents anyways.
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
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  22. #22
    MNTNBKR
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    I have brand new (maybe the problem is the break-in period) Juicy Three's on a hardtail ironhorse frame. Talked to the local bike shop and they said to give them a few more good rides and see if they break-in and the noise goes away.
    Durango, CO

  23. #23
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    Why buy juicies when they all seem to have this problem? My mono mini pros have been perfect from day one. I'm sure formulas would be the same.

  24. #24
    MNTNBKR
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    Because for the front and rear handle, caliper and rotor it cost me 120$. That was less than the mechanical discs had on before. Like I said before, I like the look and feel of the Juicys. I'm also a pretty big SRAM fan. Anyhow, I've got a few friends with Juicys and the guys at the bike shop who ride them who all have said they never experienced this. Odd...
    Durango, CO

  25. #25
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    Magura says that noise and vibration may be attributed to trapped air in the caliper and Hayes states that noise/vibration may be caused by a dirty or non-uniform (fork or frame) surface that the caliper or its adapter mounts to. So first try bleeding the brake. And if that does not work, next have your LBS face your IS brake mounting tabs on your frame. Forks do not seem to suffer from the vibration because their lowers are casted with much tighter and more consistent tolerances.
    Last edited by bwalton; 07-11-2008 at 06:15 PM.

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