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  1. #1
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    The Juicy brake turkey warble/vibration MEGA THREAD

    I figured since this problem is so widespread it deserved its own thread. So if anyone has this problem post up here. Hopefully we can find a real cause/solution to this problem.

    So here's the info we have on the problem:

    *Usually only the rear brake makes a loud squealing noise, that may sound like a turkey warbling.

    *The noise is accompanied by a vibration that can be felt throughout the bike, including the saddle and handlebars.

    *The brake works fine despite the terrible noise.

    *Some people have done nothing and the problem eventually cleared itself up. Possibly from breaking in of the pads and rotor. Others have had no luck after the brakes should have broken in.

    *Some people have cleaned, sanded, or replaced their brake pads and the problem cleared up. Others have done all of the above to no avail.

    *Replacing the rotors with the same avid rotor, another brand rotor, or another size rotor has fixed the problem for some, but not all.

    *Anti-squeal brake spray for cars has solved the problem for some, but many do not recommend this treatment because it supposedly contaminates the pads.

    This is all I can think of off the top of my head. Let me know what you guys can come up with and I'll add it to this post. Hopefully we can come up with a solution!

  2. #2
    ride hard take risks
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnniewalker85

    *Anti-squeal brake spray for cars has solved the problem for some, but many do not recommend this treatment because it supposedly contaminates the pads.
    Anti-squeal goes on the back of the pad it does not contaminate the pads braking area.
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  3. #3
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    Anyone shim out the calipers a little????? Looking at my rotors I see an 1/8" or less of space with no pad contact on the outside rotor surface and on the inside I see that the pad contact area is off the disk and on the spokes?arms? of the disk by about the same. Under regular braking no problems but under hard brakes I get the pulse/grab. Maybe the pad angles in on hard brakes and the pulse is when it strikes the spokes holding the disk??
    I don't know? should be this difficult to get some smooth brakes!
    Yes new g2 rotors and new pads are on it. Brake bleed done as well.

  4. #4
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    if your getting this problem, call avid. We have had a couple customers come through our shop with this problem and everytime avid has made it right by either replacing the rotor or in some cases the entire brake system

  5. #5
    dweeby
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    I had probs both front and rear and nothing would stop it untill after a year of messing around with washers, changing the bolts to stainless steel etc I found these pads. The name may be daft but they worked for me. Cheap and silent.
    One other thing, although copper grease dose go on the back of the pads, the original Avid pads have holes in the backing of the pads and it WILL work through to the pad. I found out!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
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    I'm having the turkey trouble with my rear avid juicy 5. So far I've tried sanding the pads, cleaning the rotor, and re-calibrating them (loosen mounting bolts, sqeeze the brake lever and re-tighten), to no avail. Sometimes it goes away but always comes back. I've noticed a very slight warp in the rotor which I suspect is the source of the problem. I'm going to call avid as sugested above and see what happens.

    One other thing I notice which may or may not be related--my casette wobbles quite a bit as the whell turns, which I've read is fairly normal, but I wonder if it contributes to the apparent rotor warp. I wonder this because when I remove the rotor and lay it on a flat surface I see no warp, I can only see it when I peer down the rotor as it's spinning on the wheel, in relation to the pads. Just a thought but I wonder if there is a connection here--I also wonder this because it seems to be more common on the rear wheel.

  7. #7
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    Rex that's a good point. But could it be that everyone who has the warble is having it because of wobble in the rear hub?

  8. #8
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    For what it's worth.

    The Juicy 7's (2007) on both my wife's and my bike developed the hated "turkey gobble" after about 6 months of riding on both the front and back brakes.

    BOTH brakes were fixed after doing the following:
    - bleeding the system.
    - changing the rotors to non-Avid (one has Galfer and the other Hayes)
    - changing the pads (Galfer on the Galfer rotors and Avid organics on the Hayes)

    A year later...
    we both still have no noise issues and great braking.

    I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
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  9. #9
    narCOTIC
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    I just got some superstar components pads for my carbons (although i didn't have the turkey thing going on, i did have some noise back there), and they are completely silent after a few rides! They are real cheap too, and have much better modulation than the stock avid pads

  10. #10
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    The turkey comes and goes on my 08 Juicy 7's, all standard aint touched a thing, one day it's there one day it aint.
    Braking is fine so it doesn't bother me, it's a relatively low sounding squeal, if it was real high pitch I would be doing something about it sharpish.

  11. #11
    LCW
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    After about probably 80miles - my Juicy 5's (185/160) are working AMAZING!! Initally they were a little bit noisier, but nothing out of the ordinary. A hint of squeak once in a while on the front if there's a bit of moisture. Otherwise very quiet and amazingly efficient and powerful. I'm very satisfied with my J5's!!

    (check out this vid from the collective on the saint brakes http://www.thecollectivefilm.com/pro...ground_qt.html
    - check out towards the end when Vanderham does his run - that is way noisier than my ever were... just to put in perspective)....

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    After about probably 80miles - my Juicy 5's (185/160) are working AMAZING!! Initally they were a little bit noisier, but nothing out of the ordinary. A hint of squeak once in a while on the front if there's a bit of moisture. Otherwise very quiet and amazingly efficient and powerful. I'm very satisfied with my J5's!!

    (check out this vid from the collective on the saint brakes http://www.thecollectivefilm.com/pro...ground_qt.html
    - check out towards the end when Vanderham does his run - that is way noisier than my ever were... just to put in perspective)....

    My Juicy 3s are about as noisy or maybe more noisy than the ones in the video. Still haven't figured out a fix. I might try to ride them and see if the break in.

  13. #13
    Not dead yet, just playin
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    Make sure one of the pistons isn't sticking in the caliper. I've found that J7s work best when the rotor isn't deflected at all. Over time, a piston will start to get a little sticky in the caliper and not move as much as the opposite piston. This results in the rotor being deflected over to the "sticky" side and after a short time, uneven pad wear. Once the pads start to wear at an angle, it goes bad quickly. New pads fix the problem temporarily, but it doesn't take long for the new pads to wear at an angle if the piston is still sticky.

    So, pull the pads out and squeeze the lever a few times. Look to see if one of the pistons is moving more than the other. If one is sticky, hold the other piston in it's bore with a tire-lever or screwdriver and pump the lever, forcing the sticky piston out. Make sure to not push it completely out of the caliper. I drip a couple drops of DOT fluid where the piston meets the caliper. Push the piston back in and repeat until both pistons are moving equally.

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  14. #14
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    You need a couple of small washers to bring the caliper out/up a bit. The cause is from the brake pads grabbing the rotor arms slightly, you need to get the pads rubbing the disc outer only. Braking on the rotor arms gives u the 'gobble' noise. Check the wear on your rotors, if its going down the arms slightly, get it up using washers

  15. #15
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    I think it's toe-in

    I'm convinced this is a simple pad toe-in problem. In 20 months and 1.5k miles on a pair of J7s with G2 rotors I've had the warble 4 or 5 times, front or rear seemingly equal. For me the problem has occurred 100% of the time immediately or soon after pulling and re-installing the pads or re-centering to correct for a dragging pad.

    The first time it occurred I tried many of the standard fixes people use; cleaning and sanding pads, shimming the caliper out, sanding rotor, specing the installation. All to no avail, still the warble. Then I happened to do a wheel stand on steep step-up and on the next downhill no more Howl ... permanently. What had happened?

    I believe installing pads or spreading them to realign can some times inadvertently cause them to be cocked on the centering pin. This causes incorrect toe-in and incomplete contact with the piston and hence the Howl. If the pad is cocked with the leading edge away from the piston normal braking corrects the issue. if the pad is cocked with the trailing edge away from the piston, normal braking continues to pull it away and the Howl persists.

    The wheel stand on an incline put reverse pressure on the rotors and settled the pads onto the piston. Since that first time I have been able to silence the warble immediately 100% of the time by firmly applying the offending brake and rotating the wheel backward and forward lightly to settle the pad in. These fixes have all been permanent silence for me until I fiddled with the brake set-up for one reason or other.


    This accounts for why all of the fixes people use work or don't in a seemingly random manner. All of them involve operations that can inadvertently cause or correct the pad toe-in issue; sometimes you fix it, some times you cause it.

    Shane

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan123
    You need a couple of small washers to bring the caliper out/up a bit. The cause is from the brake pads grabbing the rotor arms slightly, you need to get the pads rubbing the disc outer only. Braking on the rotor arms gives u the 'gobble' noise. Check the wear on your rotors, if its going down the arms slightly, get it up using washers
    I don't think this is the cause of the Gobble noise.
    I've checked all the rotors on our two bikes for this and it was NOT an issue as the pads made perfect contact with the rotors.
    Changing the rotors was the only cure that worked for me.

    Further to this, a friend of mine is running Juicys with Shimano rotors (with a much narrower braking surface that Avids) has his pads making contact with the rotor arms...
    no noise.

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  17. #17
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    So to insure that the back of the pads are true with the pistons, lightly apply the brake and push the bike forwards and backwards before you align the caliper to the rotor. What happens when the pad material is uneven-do the pads need to be replaced?

  18. #18
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    HATE THEM. They're on ebay now. I'm getting real brakes like formula
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  19. #19
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    I have Avid Juicy 5's and I have the honking noise intermittently. It used to happen on every ride, usually about a mile or so in. But I only get the noise when I'm NOT braking. If I lightly pull on the rear brake lever it stops but as soon as I release it the noise comes back. So I started cleaning my rotors with MEK after every ride and now I only get the noise occasionally and not even for the whole ride. I read in Mountain Bike Action magazine that Kool Stop pads will help eliminate the noise. So I priced Kool Stop pads and they are around $15 or so, if I remember right. Compare that to replacement Avid pads at around $3 and for 5 times as much it should cure the problem. I haven't gotten them yet because, as I said, the problem has gotten much better. I'm probably going to just keep riding with things as they are as long as the problem doesn't get any worse.

  20. #20
    MNTNBKR
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    Just installed Juicy Three's and my rear brake is making the "gobble" noise as well as vibrating my entire bike when I apply a lot of pressure to it. I've done what everyone else has done including; clean the rotors and pads, reposition the caliper, and make sure the rotor is straight and tightly secured to the hub. Each of these solutions worked for about 1 mile of riding then the annoyance came back.

    Has anyone found a 100% effective solution to this problem, ASIDE from buying entirely new brakes? I like the way the Juicys feel and look and I got a good price on them.
    Durango, CO

  21. #21
    Ridin' dirty!
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    My first AVID Juicy brakes were the 5's and they were constantly suffering from sticky pistons.
    replaced them with JUICY 7 and NEVER had any issues. The only time I had a squeal was in very humid conditions and during maybe a week of brake in time.
    Got Juicy LE carbon now and still no issues...What kind of bikes 'yall have?
    Maybe if the rear end is not stiff enough you can't get them adjusted properly.
    Just my 2 cents anyways.
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  22. #22
    MNTNBKR
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    I have brand new (maybe the problem is the break-in period) Juicy Three's on a hardtail ironhorse frame. Talked to the local bike shop and they said to give them a few more good rides and see if they break-in and the noise goes away.
    Durango, CO

  23. #23
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    Why buy juicies when they all seem to have this problem? My mono mini pros have been perfect from day one. I'm sure formulas would be the same.

  24. #24
    MNTNBKR
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    Because for the front and rear handle, caliper and rotor it cost me 120$. That was less than the mechanical discs had on before. Like I said before, I like the look and feel of the Juicys. I'm also a pretty big SRAM fan. Anyhow, I've got a few friends with Juicys and the guys at the bike shop who ride them who all have said they never experienced this. Odd...
    Durango, CO

  25. #25
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    Magura says that noise and vibration may be attributed to trapped air in the caliper and Hayes states that noise/vibration may be caused by a dirty or non-uniform (fork or frame) surface that the caliper or its adapter mounts to. So first try bleeding the brake. And if that does not work, next have your LBS face your IS brake mounting tabs on your frame. Forks do not seem to suffer from the vibration because their lowers are casted with much tighter and more consistent tolerances.
    Last edited by bwalton; 07-11-2008 at 05:15 PM.

  26. #26
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    I have a set of Juicy's on my 08 stumpjumper... they tend to gobble after a long descent then have a chance to cool.

    I'm assuming its due to build up on the rotor after heating to sizzling temperatures then cooling. the heat between the pads and rotors can sometimes cause a glaze effect that tends to cause fade. when the rotors cool is when you start to get the sequel. I've also noticed that i can usually get it to stop after a few hard brakes when the rotors are squealing,

  27. #27
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    I wonder

    I wonder if anyone with BB7s has this problem? BB7s and Juicy 7s use the same pads. But not the same rotors. The rotors for the BB7s are quite a bit thicker.

    I have been running the J7s for about 3 years now on 2 bikes. On my Giant NRS, no noise, running the 6" rotors. On my Ventana X-5 running the 7" rotors, I never had bad noise until I moved back to the west coast. I would occasionally get the turkey warble. But, not big deal, they still seemed to stop me effectively.

    But, moving out to Monterey....the rear brake on my X-5 has been all kinds of trouble. While in Downieville, it sounded like a cross between an angry moose and an angry goose. Braking was absolutely not effective and I could feel it resonate through the entire frame of the bike. On the front, at times it feels as if the pads are popping over each of the slots in the rotors...alternately grabbing and not when it hits a slot, but no real decrement to braking performance.

    As the back brake on the X-5 was worse, I have tried all kinds of things. Emery cloth to the pads and rotors. Shimming. Torquing to the torque specs. Plastic washers. The only thing that seems to help thus far has been organic pads. Still noisy when it gets dusty, but not as bad and it retains most of the braking performance.

    For my problems, my theory is this: Vibration. If you treat the caliper, rotor, hub, and rear swingarm/triangle as a spring/mass system...it will have certain natural frequencies in which resonance occurs. Throw in some contaminants on the pads, and you just may happen to hit that natural frequency easier. The same pads and rotor design on both of my bikes, but one makes the noise and one doesn't. The only difference are the spring/mass characteristics of the system as a whole because one has the 6" rotor, the other a 7" rotor, they both have the same rear hub, but the swingarms are vastly different.

    I have plenty of friends running the BB7s. None seem to share my problems. And, if you look at the rotors that come with the BB7s as opposed to the J7s, the BB7s look much more robust. And heavier...giving it a different frequency at which resonance occurs, partly due to the mass alone.

    I am going to try a 6" rotor on the back of my X-5 this weekend. After that, maybe a BB7 rotor...then maybe I'll try some Galfer pads and/or thier rotor.

  28. #28
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    I've about had it

    After 2 yrs of constantly re-sanding the pads/changing pads, re- setting the alignment, tightening everything, my rear brake squeals like a stuck pig after 80-100 miles. Every time I think I've cured it, it comes back, in a couple of rides.

    I've never had a problem in the front, only the rear.

    2006 J-7's with the Polygon rotor.

  29. #29
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    Okay, inspired by the tread, I threw some washers on tonight.

    Quote Originally Posted by onbelaydave
    After 2 yrs of constantly re-sanding the pads/changing pads, re- setting the alignment, tightening everything, my rear brake squeals like a stuck pig after 80-100 miles. Every time I think I've cured it, it comes back, in a couple of rides.

    I've never had a problem in the front, only the rear.

    2006 J-7's with the Polygon rotor.
    I noticed just a "very" slightly different wear pattern front to back and stuck ~ 3/32" worth of washers under the rear CPS mount and re-aligned as usual.

    The rear is now the quietest, smoothest it has ever felt; better than the front for now. One finger/ 4 oz pressure to lockup/skid the rear tire. I took it out for a short test ride, re-bedding the pads with about 50- 60 stops. Only time will tell.

  30. #30
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    I believe the nasty vibe comes from the pad engaging the rotor out of alignment. The manual for J7's says to align by clamping the brakes then tightening the CPS bolts. I've noticed that this does not guaranty the caliper is aligned.

    I believe it's important to visually align by looking at through the top opening of the caliper first, then clamp down on the brakes and tighten the bolts.
    Question to a custom frame builder..."So what makes your bikes climb better?"....his answer, "Uh, your legs?"

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by HTail
    I believe the nasty vibe comes from the pad engaging the rotor out of alignment. The manual for J7's says to align by clamping the brakes then tightening the CPS bolts. I've noticed that this does not guaranty the caliper is aligned.

    I believe it's important to visually align by looking at through the top opening of the caliper first, then clamp down on the brakes and tighten the bolts.

    I've tried basically every adjustment I could. still the same problem. I even took off the caliper and sanded the frame where the caliper mounts to the bike. still the same problem. I went to a LBS and they said the pads must be contaminated, even thought I've never touched them and I cleaned the rotors and pads with alcohol. They looked at me like I was crazy and they'd never heard of the problem. They basically just told me to bring the bike in and offered to sell me pads for $22 a set.

    If I bring the bike in they'll probably tell me to replace the pads and/or rotor so I'll probably be like $70-$80 in by then. I might as well just get BB7s or something for that money.

  32. #32
    LCW
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    had a slight gobble develop on the last ride on my J5's... so before today's ride loosened the caliper bolts, had a buddy apply the brake lever and hold it, while I retightened the caliper bolts... went on a good ride today... quiet as can be... I guess I'm in the minority but I'm loving my Avids... one figure braking, good modulation, technical descents in full control. This method to align the caliper (shown in the Avid user manual - which you can download the pdf from their site) seemed to work great for me and I haven't even changed pads (I do like the braking power the stock sintered pads provide, although might try some EBC green or red in the future). Overall quite satisfied w/ my J5's

    peace
    Last edited by LCW; 07-14-2008 at 06:14 AM.

  33. #33
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    I've been chasing the same brake ghost as many of you. I've changed pads, realigned, sanded, beveled etc w/o any success. It is driving me crazy, and puts a damper on my rides. I'm ready to try the BB's--are there any real drawbacks to the BB's?

  34. #34
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    In my experience, proper alignment (make sure you can see light pass through both sides of the rotor) along with replacing the pads and rotors should usually solve most issues.
    Simple | Proven | Reliable

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  35. #35
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    Same turkey warble coming form my '08 575 w/J5s. First bike with discs so I am a bit clueless.
    Probably about 8 rides on it so far and while it is getting a little better it is still annoying. I have tried realigning the caliper, cleaning the rotor w/alcohol and squeezing the brakes while rolling the bike backwards. No luck. I am ready to try sanding the pads. What grit paper are folks using?
    Also, Is it a problem to have the bike upside-down to remove the rear tire? I have read that this isn't great for disc brakes.

  36. #36
    ride hard take risks
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAR13
    Same turkey warble coming form my '08 575 w/J5s. First bike with discs so I am a bit clueless.
    Probably about 8 rides on it so far and while it is getting a little better it is still annoying. I have tried realigning the caliper, cleaning the rotor w/alcohol and squeezing the brakes while rolling the bike backwards. No luck. I am ready to try sanding the pads. What grit paper are folks using?
    Also, Is it a problem to have the bike upside-down to remove the rear tire? I have read that this isn't great for disc brakes.
    Slap the pad on the cement and sand in a figure eight till deglazed.

    Yes you can turn your bike up side nwod.

    Galfer red pads are awesome.

    http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/149...e-Pads-Red.htm

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  37. #37
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    I had the same issue with my J5's. I didn't even mind the turkey warble, it was the violent vibration that worried me. I switched to some Shimano rotors, and all problems immediately went away. I've since switched to the newer Avid rotors and all is still well.

    I'd try swapping rotors or wheels with another bike and see how that works. It's an easy thing to check.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Just looked at the Galfer pads from your link they don't come with springs so my guess the stock Avid springs are ok to use with the Galfer pads?

  39. #39
    ride hard take risks
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    Quote Originally Posted by XC Mike
    Just looked at the Galfer pads from your link they don't come with springs so my guess the stock Avid springs are ok to use with the Galfer pads?
    That is correct.
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  40. #40
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    I have '07 Juicy 7's on my GF HiFi.

    At about 200 miles the rear brake started howling. Cleaning/sanding only helped for a few miles. I changed the pads to Kool Stop's and all was well for the next 500 miles.

    Avid organic, Kool Stop, Galfer red and green pads, sanding/cleaning pads/rotor did not help this time. I switched the rear rotor to a Galfer wave rotor and I am using Galfer red pads (the green were too grabby for my taste). Quiet as can be for now after about 30 miles. Time will tell.

    FWIW, the caliper and rotor have always been properly aligned and torqued. Suspension pivots are not worn and are properly torqued.

  41. #41
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    I just spoke Tech Support at SRAM and they were very willing to try and help. They said that they will send out a new rotor and pad(no charge). They wouldn't send them directly to me, but to any SRAM dealer, whether you bought it there or not. So, I called the shop I bought it at, and they will call Tech Support and request the rotor/pads. The gal I spoke w/ said that if the rotor is "out of spec" at all, it can set up this problem. They have a new rotor she said. . The tech number I used is 312-664-8800. I hope this switch in rotor and pads helps, me and everyone else. I have a 185mm Avid CSG2 rotor currently.

  42. #42
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    I have Juicy 5's and they've always been noisy. I've had every issue stated in this thread, until last week when I changed my rotors to Alligator Serration's and got some Kool Stop pads. Now they're quiet as can be and they feel like they stop better. Before, if I had to use the brakes a lot on the trail I could notice them losing stopping power. Now that isn't a problem either.

  43. #43
    LCW
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixate
    I have Juicy 5's and they've always been noisy. I've had every issue stated in this thread, until last week when I changed my rotors to Alligator Serration's and got some Kool Stop pads. Now they're quiet as can be and they feel like they stop better. Before, if I had to use the brakes a lot on the trail I could notice them losing stopping power. Now that isn't a problem either.
    which Kool Stops did you get? The D270 (red backing plate), D270A (aluminum backing plate) or D270S (copper backing plate) ?


    cheers

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    which Kool Stops did you get? The D270 (red backing plate), D270A (aluminum backing plate) or D270S (copper backing plate) ?


    cheers

    D270's

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    I'm going to call Avid tomorrow and see if I can get them to send me a new rotor. It's been less than a year since I bought the bike. It probably has about 100 miles on it. Most of them are me trying to break in the brakes.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnniewalker85
    I'm going to call Avid tomorrow and see if I can get them to send me a new rotor. It's been less than a year since I bought the bike. It probably has about 100 miles on it. Most of them are me trying to break in the brakes.
    My experience has been thus :
    I won a set of 2008 juicy carbons. I mounted them, but the rear hose was short. LBS redid the line and the brakes have totally rocked in all ways. So much so I bought a "new" set on ebay for my hardtail. Turns out they were New closeout 07 stock. I mounted these also, and I have the turkey warble in the rear sometimes also. I think it may be a rotor issue?
    Hasnt bothered me alot really. Maybe there is some change to the new stuff?
    Anyone know For Sure the year of the brakes they have, not when they got them?
    CDT

  47. #47
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    Well, after stumping most guys wrenching, and while waiting for SRAM to send me a new rotor/pads as noted earlier--out of sheer frustration I bought a new pair of Avid Organic pad and the shutter/squeal disappeared. I rode about 15miles last night and have not had any issues--so I'll shelve the new parts when they arrive and use them if needed. I'm thinking that the pads are a little softer so they don't set up the same vibrations. Just for others knowledge--the other pads I tried were Avid regulars, Aztec organic, Galfer Red as well and the whole realigning of the brake, sanding, cleaning etc of the rotor. The bike I'm on in is a Santa Cruz Blur LT(07/08 model) Good luck.

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    well I swapped my front rotor for the back and put the back rotor in the front. The front is still quiet while the back one still howls. I'm going to try swapping the pads front to back now and take it for a spin around the neighborhood. I'll post my findings when I get back.

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    Man I've tried everything that is posted here about the juicy's. I switched rotors just like johnniewalker85 did and same thing, warble is still in the back. I think it's time to just try formula's or hope's.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by miketech1
    Man I've tried everything that is posted here about the juicy's. I switched rotors just like johnniewalker85 did and same thing, warble is still in the back. I think it's time to just try formula's or hope's.
    Hayes Sstrokers are awesom brakes worth considering.

    http://www.spadout.com/p/hayes-stroker-trail-brake/
    Formotion Products
    http://www.formot

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