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  1. #1
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    Juicy 7 gobble still here - need suggestions

    Here's what I've done to date:
    Started with '05 Juicy 7's and polygon rotor and OEM pads - squealed and turkey gobbled like heck. Confirmed pads were contacting legs of rotor - raised caliper with washers - still gobbled - removed washers and grinded pad material away to eliminate rotor leg contact - still gobbled. Replaced OEM pads with new Avid resin pads and reinstalled washers to eliminate rotor leg contact - still gobbled. Changed to Hayes V6 rotors with Avid resin pads, removed washers, confirmed pads were not contacting rotor legs - still gobbled.

    Along the way, I've tried sanding the pads which quites things for maybe 1 ride. I'm following the pad alignment procedure listed on this forum and am getting the calipers about as aligned as possible. The rotors are true. Yesterday I swapped wheels with a buddy who has XTR rotors and my setup still gobbled but not as loud. My V6 rotor on his bike with Formula brakes didn't gobble or squeal. Through process of elimination, it sounds like the problem is with the J7 caliper. It seems like the gobble shows up after the pads are bedded in and begin to grab well, so my theory is that heavy braking causes something within the caliper to vibrate causing the gobble - possibly the pad-to-piston interface?? So my next idea is to try some of the automotive pad quieting goo that is applied to the backs of the brake pads - however, I just think it will get scraped off as the pads are installed in the J7 caliper.

    Beyond that, does anybody have any other suggestions or ideas to quiet these brakes?

    Thanks,

    Dan

  2. #2
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    Setup issue. I've got an o4, o5, o6, and o7 caliper, all mismatched. No stuttering issues with any of them.

    Have you tried letting it bed all the way before sanding or cleaning? There is such a thing as sanding too much.

  3. #3
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    "Setup issue" - please elaborate. Does that mean the alignment is wrong, incorrect bedding procedure, wrong mix of components, etc.?

    I only sanded the pads once. It was when I elevated the caliper to get the pads off the polygon rotor legs.

  4. #4
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    Had the same issue with my 04 Juicy's. The only solution I tried that actually worked was getting the new G2 rotors from Avid. They seem to be a bit different alloy than the previous generation and the braking surface seems to be a bit larger.

    Givem a shot, they're still a great brake.

    happy trails...

    squish
    Get out and ride!

  5. #5
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    No doubt, the J7 is a great brake - and the levers are really nice as well. But watch e-bay kids cause these damn things gotta GO! To make sure there wasn't something in my bike causing the gobbling, my buddy loaned me some El Camino brakes (sorry Hayes, compared to the J7's I'm not impressed!!) and they function QUIETLY on my bike! So I eliminated the bike, wheels, and rotor as the problem. Yeah, everything works differently together, but this is the best idea I could come up with to eliminate the wheels, fork, pivots, etc. as the source of the gobble.

    I tried the clean sweep rotor - sounded exactly the same as the Hayes V6 rotor (gobbled like hell). I then tried sanding the pads - still gobbled like hell. Note - the brakes were bedded per Avid's bedding procedure after each component change to get a valid indication of the results of the change. Each time, I noticed the gobble worsened as the brakes began to bed and grab better. I'm done spending money swapping parts to try to quiet these J7's! Got some Formula's on order.

    It's a shame - the J7's are impressive brakes and the levers are very well designed and constructed - I really WANTED to make these things work but I'm tired "chasing the turkey".

  6. #6
    11 is one louder than 10
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    new organic pads. New round rotors, or 07 rotors, or the j5 roundagon rotors (heavier).

    Align pads while rotating wheel backwards Slowly. Alternate tightening the top and bottom bolts. Check for alignment. Break in slowly.
    "The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care."

  7. #7
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    Did it! All of what you suggested! And in various combinations - organic with polygon, organic with G2, orgaic with Hayes V6, sanding, not sanding, align while rotating forward by hand with the crank, backward by hand, tighten top bolt first then lower, tighten lower then top, rotate - tighten just a little, rotate, then tighten some more, etc. That's what kills me - I've tried everything anyone has suggested and still have the gobble.

    Thanks for the input, though!

  8. #8
    meh....
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    Got Dremel?

    Quote Originally Posted by wddamf
    Did it! All of what you suggested! And in various combinations - organic with polygon, organic with G2, orgaic with Hayes V6, sanding, not sanding, align while rotating forward by hand with the crank, backward by hand, tighten top bolt first then lower, tighten lower then top, rotate - tighten just a little, rotate, then tighten some more, etc. That's what kills me - I've tried everything anyone has suggested and still have the gobble.

    Thanks for the input, though!
    Here's what I did to kill my gobble. Dremel makes a small abrasive wheel, it looks like a small scotchbrite pad. Dremel about 1/2 throttle, go over the braking surface and clean it up. You aren't looking to remove a lot of material, just to break up the surface glaze.

    Monte

  9. #9
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Also remember tho check the CPS washers... if you ever overtightened them, they might now have a "deformed position" to which they go back as you tighten them... causing your caliper to misalign every time....

  10. #10
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    Try swapping to Hopes.

  11. #11
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    Also remember tho check the CPS washers
    Yeah, I thought about that. I checked them for deformation and they're OK. I'm confident the alignment was/is OK. Visually, the're in line with the rotor in both the radial and axial planes, and the pads contact the rotor equally and at the same time when the lever is slowly squeezed.

    Try swapping to Hopes
    Naw... I'm swapping to Formula K24's. I luckily have buddys riding El Camino's, Mono's, and K24's so I got to test ride each - I like the Formula's. Oh yeah - ALL of their brakes are quiet! One of my other buddys had J7's and they gobbled on his Turner just like on my Titus. He ditched his J7's too! I hate to dog a product that is so well built and performs so well but I've put forth plenty effort to resolve the issue with no success. Thanks to everybody for all the suggestions.

    Dan

  12. #12
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    I don't find the Juicy 7's to be well built at all, especially at the price of others. Their problem was fixing problems that didn't truly exist, the speed dial system that wasn't truly needed, and the rotors. After two years on the other bike of fumbling with them and having leaking reservoir seals and a master cylinder on one starting to act up, it's time to get rid of them. Used hopes and will never look back. Quiet, set and forget, never drag, settings don't change based on temps, modulation is fantastic, and never have to think about them. The build quality is phenomenal as well.

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=Jerk_Chicken]settings don't change based on temps, QUOTE]

    Yeah... Because Hope definitely did some voodoo magic on their brakes so it ignores the boiling point of DOT fluid, brake fade, heat dissipation, and other laws of physics.

    The IS caliper is such a pleasure to work with. Face the tabs, space it out, compatibility issues, etc. More work than is neccesary. Sorry to say this, but if a wrench can't set up a post mount caliper, he doesn't deserve to be building bikes.

    I've run Avid brakes for some time now. I've had a bad piston which allowed dirt into the system, it eventually mucked up the MC. But SRAM took care of me. No company will be able to produce a brake that is 100% problem free 100% of the time. Yes, they did produce some faulty rotors. But I still believe that many of the stuttering issues had/have more to do with setup and break in than anything else.

  14. #14
    Master of None
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    Which side gobbles? Front? Rear? Both?

    Are your spokes good and tight?

    I have '05 Juicy 5 (same caliper) with polygon rotors, OEM pads, and no gobble. Sometimes it makes a cool boing-boing sound at low speed but it's not loud at all.

    They have amazing power and modulation. My singlespeed now has better brakes than my big trail bike...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by wddamf
    Naw... I'm swapping to Formula K24's. I luckily have buddys riding El Camino's, Mono's, and K24's so I got to test ride each - I like the Formula's. Oh yeah - ALL of their brakes are quiet! One of my other buddys had J7's and they gobbled on his Turner just like on my Titus. He ditched his J7's too! I hate to dog a product that is so well built and performs so well but I've put forth plenty effort to resolve the issue with no success. Thanks to everybody for all the suggestions.

    Dan
    That's what I did! Instant fix. First time, right out of the box, no ****ing around with bs this/that/the other. Mount and GO!

    For reference - I was experiencing problems with BB7s, not a Juicy model. I think it's an Avid problem, not a Juicy one. (shrug) JMHO and IMAE, YMMV and all that other stuff.

    Let us know how it goes, wd.
    I ..... need ..... DIRT!!!!!

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  16. #16
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    Front and rear gobble equally loud.

    Spokes are tight, too.

  17. #17
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    I have BB7s, which work, and Formula Oros, which work. I definitely prefer the Formulas but the BBs are nice. Half - no, 90% - of the battle is making sure the rotor is true.
    All problems in mountain biking can be solved by going faster, except the ones that are caused by going too fast.

  18. #18
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    Yeah... Because Hope definitely did some voodoo magic on their brakes so it ignores the boiling point of DOT fluid, brake fade, heat dissipation, and other laws of physics.
    Heh!! That's funny! I had a little problem with pump-up in the heat of the summer but that was because I had overfilled them during bleeding - releasing a few drops of fluid solved that problem.

    Will, you keep referring to "setup issues" - give me some suggestions of what to tweak - the pads visually look square to the rotor, the rotor is true, the rotor bolts are to their torque spec, the caliper bolts and adapter bolts are tight, the bike's pivots are tight, etc. I don't mind fiddling with this (until my new Formula's arrive!! ) but I honestly don't know what to experiment with at this point.

  19. #19
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    Gobble-gobble

    I had '04 and '06 J7s on a Turner 5 Spot/Pike. I had Gobbling with both (different gen calipers and rotors) but only on the rear. Tscheezy posted some time ago using a dremel to round the edges of the rotors/legs which clip and sometimes actually chip off the edges of the pads. I switched to Magura Marta's and havent looked back since-- no squeal/gobble/leaks. Avid did have great customer support when they used to interact with end users...

  20. #20
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    You can try beveling the leading and trailing edge of the pad a little bit.

    But from the sounds of it, I really just think that either tha pads have worn unevenly, or the pads aren't hitting square. Try replacing the CPS washers with a stack of flat washers.

  21. #21
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    Maybe you aren't giving them time to bed in? The first ride on mine squealed like a stuck pig. I would stop at the mud puddles and rub some mud on the rotor. A couple applications of mud and I was good to go!

    When you look at your worn pads, are they worn evenly? Or can you see some of the pad is shinier than the rest?

  22. #22
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    Lack of bed-in time also occured to me and seemed a likely cause.

  23. #23
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    Another thing I have done in the past is to slip some 600 grit sandpaper between the rotor and the pad while everything is all together. Then turn the tire while lightly squeezing the brake lever and the sandpaper surfaces the pads to be true to the rotor. Do this to both pads.

  24. #24
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    [QUOTE=XSL_WiLL]
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    settings don't change based on temps, QUOTE]

    Yeah... Because Hope definitely did some voodoo magic on their brakes so it ignores the boiling point of DOT fluid, brake fade, heat dissipation, and other laws of physics.

    The IS caliper is such a pleasure to work with. Face the tabs, space it out, compatibility issues, etc. More work than is neccesary. Sorry to say this, but if a wrench can't set up a post mount caliper, he doesn't deserve to be building bikes.

    I've run Avid brakes for some time now. I've had a bad piston which allowed dirt into the system, it eventually mucked up the MC. But SRAM took care of me. No company will be able to produce a brake that is 100% problem free 100% of the time. Yes, they did produce some faulty rotors. But I still believe that many of the stuttering issues had/have more to do with setup and break in than anything else.
    I have no idea where you invented this angle from. With respect to temps, it has been referenced here the specific problem. You set the pad distance on the Juicy 7's and then when the temps go to a different range, like the next morning, the pads either rub, or the lever goes to the bar. Incredibly annoying and once again, Avid came up with solutions to problems that didn't exist.

    Additionally, I don't listen to 100% of the things you post here since you admitted to shilling for manufacturers for free stuff. So we can add avid to the list, along with Formula?

  25. #25
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    [QUOTE=Jerk_Chicken]
    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    I have no idea where you invented this angle from. With respect to temps, it has been referenced here the specific problem. You set the pad distance on the Juicy 7's and then when the temps go to a different range, like the next morning, the pads either rub, or the lever goes to the bar. Incredibly annoying and once again, Avid came up with solutions to problems that didn't exist.

    Additionally, I don't listen to 100% of the things you post here since you admitted to shilling for manufacturers for free stuff. So we can add avid to the list, along with Formula?
    Uhm. No. I don't. You're manipulating my words. I've gotten free stuff in the past, but for riding, not for posting on MTBR. And if you ask me, you're the one that raves about whatever product that you are currently riding.

    Additionally, you're wrong most of the time! Ha! Because guess what? You can't set the pad distance. It is a open system, and the pistons are self adjusting. The red knob does not adjust the pads. The red knob only affects the throw/contact point of the lever. And you simply said that settings don't change based on temperature. You had not referenced a specific problem. In addition, that statement is FALSE.

    Perhaps you should learn how to work on bikes. Perhaps you should also get off your high horse and stop being such a pompous ass all the time.

    Unlike you, I do make positive contributions to these forums.
    Last edited by XSL_WiLL; 02-15-2007 at 03:17 PM.

  26. #26
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    Again, I am not twisting your words.

    You admitted to receiving free goods from manufacturers and it's not too hard to figure out who at least one of them is.

  27. #27
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    600 grit is some pretty fine sandpaper... Might take a while to sand down a pad.

    That's a good idea though. I can't say I've ever thought of it.

    BTW, do try a little bit of squeal-stop on the back of the pads. It's what ended up curing the howling that my buddy's Mags made.
    Last edited by XSL_WiLL; 02-15-2007 at 03:27 PM.

  28. #28
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    Again? I don't believe you've itterated yourself before. So "again" is inappropriate in this context.

    Yes, you are. No, I did not.

    You sir, are an IDIOT. Ignorance is not a virtue.

    Feel free to contact SRAM. The only thing they've ever given me is phenomenal service.

    I've gotten tires from Maxxis and WTB before. I'm not a big fan of WTB tires. I've received various products through sponsors and product testing. Not through posting on MTBR.

  29. #29
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    The 600 grit does work surprisingly quickly. It also loads up the paper with pad material so you have to use another spot when that happens.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    Again? I don't believe you've itterated yourself before. So "again" is inappropriate in this context.

    Yes, you are. No, I did not.

    You sir, are an IDIOT. Ignorance is not a virtue.

    Feel free to contact SRAM. The only thing they've ever given me is phenomenal service.

    I've gotten tires from Maxxis and WTB before. I'm not a big fan of WTB tires. I've received various products through sponsors and product testing. Not through posting on MTBR.
    I believe this is member bashing.

    Sram isn't the manufacturer in question, but they could be added to the list due to your guilty conscience.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I believe this is member bashing.

    Sram isn't the manufacturer in question, but they could be added to the list due to your guilty conscience.
    You just said SRAM is the manufacturer in question, did you not? Who else has the financial backing to just throw sh!t at me? (they don't). And if they were giving me free stuff, I certainly wouldn't have any of the Shimano or non-Truvativ products on my bike that I have, or the Hayes rotors.

    What guilty conscience? Again, you're going at it, manipulating my words.

    In case you haven't realized it. SRAM owns SRAM (obviously), Avid, and Truvativ. And Hayes owns Manitou.

    And for what it's worth, you started. I think that your blind brand loyalty overshadows simple logic and common sense. In addition, you rip on my integrity and my knowledge in general. I have proved you wrong before. And oh the silence! You didn't post in the forum for some time after that.

    I think you should just shut up now.

  32. #32
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    The gobble seems to get worse as use increases, so I don't think it's a lack of bedding. When I first installed the new V6 rotors with the resin pads, they were quiet for a few rides - well, the rear squealed like hell but at least no turkey gobble. As I made a few more rides, the gobble slowly came back on both front and rear. I decided to try sanding the pads and upon examining them, the wear pattern was even (equally shiny across the entire surface of the pad and the remaining pad material appeared square relative to the pad backing). Again, visually the pads are square to the rotor surface when viewed both from above and from the front / rear so the calipers are as square as I can get them.

    The sand paper between the rotor and pad thing sounds interesting (but 600 does sound too fine!). I'll give that a try with some 320!

    Dunno if this means anything or not, but for giggles, I replaced the conical washers with flat ones on the rear of the bike - the caliper wound up being a bit off square relative to the rotor so I didn't even try using it in that condition. I mounted an El Camino up front and it mounted square so maybe I'll try the flat washer stack up front to see if that works.

    My current theory (which admittedly could be a "reach") is that because the caliper is mounted "up high" on top of a stack of washers, that it's vibrating back and forth when the brakes are applied. The mounting bolts and washer stack form the "legs" of what essentially becomes a tuning fork. Note how other calipers mount lower and directly to the adapter - there's less potential to vibrate.

    Thanks for the continued suggestions. I tell ya, these brakes are impressive, but DAMN, I shouldn't have to fiddle and tweak something this much to make it work properly (i.e., quietly). I guess "quiet" wasn't a design parameter that Avid originally incorporated!

  33. #33
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    presslab, I'll give the 600 grit a try since it worked for you.

    WiLL, do you think the squeal stop goo will just get raked off when I slide the pads into the J7 calipers? (I don't know if Mag's have more "working area"). I guess I can just try it and see how big a mess it makes!

  34. #34
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    Well I've always thought mountain bike discs were a little weird because they were pulling on the spokes. It doesn't surprise me that a lot of them squeal. I would guess the spokes are like springs and any initial vibration would then be amplified by a sort of sympathetic relationship.

    I also have some Grimeca System 8 IS mount calipers; they mount pretty low. Unfortunately they squeal when they are wet. I do run the HH compound pads because I like the bite.

  35. #35
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    Yeah, there's plenty of stuff there to resonate!

  36. #36
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    I understand your frustration. And I definitely give you an "A" for effort and patience.

    Use a little grease in those conical washers. Hopefully you'll get it all worked out.

  37. #37
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    Even the spokes and frame can allow it to reasonate.

    Try applying the squeal stop directly to the piston (take care not to gum it up) and then slide the pad in. You've got to play with it a little bit.

    Oh, the spring clip between the pads? Try to stretch that out a little bit too.

  38. #38
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    Use a wirewheel on a drill or a dremel to make a crosshatch pattern on the rotor face, as well as softening the ridges on the edges. This will save a lot of time and work.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by wddamf
    Here's what I've done to date:
    Started with '05 Juicy 7's and polygon rotor and OEM pads - squealed and turkey gobbled like heck. Confirmed pads were contacting legs of rotor - raised caliper with washers - still gobbled - removed washers and grinded pad material away to eliminate rotor leg contact - still gobbled. Replaced OEM pads with new Avid resin pads and reinstalled washers to eliminate rotor leg contact - still gobbled. Changed to Hayes V6 rotors with Avid resin pads, removed washers, confirmed pads were not contacting rotor legs - still gobbled.

    Along the way, I've tried sanding the pads which quites things for maybe 1 ride. I'm following the pad alignment procedure listed on this forum and am getting the calipers about as aligned as possible. The rotors are true. Yesterday I swapped wheels with a buddy who has XTR rotors and my setup still gobbled but not as loud. My V6 rotor on his bike with Formula brakes didn't gobble or squeal. Through process of elimination, it sounds like the problem is with the J7 caliper. It seems like the gobble shows up after the pads are bedded in and begin to grab well, so my theory is that heavy braking causes something within the caliper to vibrate causing the gobble - possibly the pad-to-piston interface?? So my next idea is to try some of the automotive pad quieting goo that is applied to the backs of the brake pads - however, I just think it will get scraped off as the pads are installed in the J7 caliper.

    Beyond that, does anybody have any other suggestions or ideas to quiet these brakes?

    Thanks,

    Dan
    Dan, I ran into the same problem with the same brake set last year. The '05's squealed and the rotors tore up most of the brake pads from the bottom up. I swapped back and forth from 160mm to 203's, mounting hardware, etc.... I even trimmed a bit of the pad off with a Dremmel so the pads wouldn't contact the legs like you and a few others tried. This solved one problem, but the brakes still squeeked/squeeled to varying degrees and eventually the pads would just disintegrate from the damage caused with cutting them. I never got any fading and the braking was consistant once I stopped the pads from getting chewed up-at least temporarily.

    I can't offer up a solid solution to the '05's other than try the newest Juicy Seven's if you can afford to buy a pair. I was pretty reluctant to purchase them after my experience, but have been pleased and currently run them on all 3 of my bikes. No squeeling, no pads getting chewed up and you just can't beat how easy they are to bleed compared to Hayes and Shimano. Only draw back I can find with them is I can't get as solid a feel as I could with the Saints, even with the pad contact adjustment.

    Hope that helps a bit.....

  40. #40
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    Haven't read the whole thread and I pretty sure this solution has been posted before but I just put some EBC green pads in my rear 07 Sevens and it seems to have solved the problem so far. However, I really haven't broken in the pads yet.

  41. #41
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    Guys - thanks for all the input! Over the weekend I changed the pads to new Avids, polished and greased the CPU washers, wire wheeled and sanded the rotors, installed / aligned / tweaked the calipers over and over again to ensure the they were square to the rotors and tightened evenly, straightened the rotors, and then g-e-n-t-l-y bedded in the pads. After a long bedding procedure and as to be expected, the more I rode and used the brakes, the better they began to work. As the performance slowly increased to what I'd call acceptable, the gobble slowly reappeared and increased as well. The brakes work great... and gobble just like they always did.

    My new Formula K24's will be here Thursday!

    (If anybody wants these before they hit e-bay, shoot me an e-mail!)

  42. #42
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    I applaud your patience with the brakes. I suppose it just wasn't meant to be. I wish you best of luck with those K24s, they're sweet brakes as well.

    I would take them off your hands, but money is tight at the moment.

    Sometimes, all it takes is a different pad compound.

    Did you try using the squeel-stop? Or beveling the leading/trailing edges?

  43. #43
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    This is how I fixed all the problems with my Juicy 7's:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  44. #44
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    Did you try using the squeel-stop? Or beveling the leading/trailing edges?
    The squeal-stop was the one suggestion I didn't try - I didn't have any laying around the garage and didn't feel like making the trip to the Auto-Zone. I kinda figured since all the other measures didn't even slightly improve the situation, the goo alone probably wouldn't be completely effective. Indeed, it may very well have been the "silver bullet" and completely solved the problem! But at this point, I just want the J7's off my bike!

    I didn't bevel the pad edges because when I sanded the rotors, it took the sharp edges off the rotor itself - which would seem to have the same effect (in my mind). I guess that would have modified the amount of pad that is contacting the rotor - which in turn could have modified the resonant vibrating frequency of the pad itself... hum... I guess it was probably worth trying but again, I just got to the point of throwing my hands up on this project!

    Thanks again!

    Dan

  45. #45
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    Brakes shouldn't require this much work to use. The best thing that could be said about them is that they are install and forget- minimal user interaction besides pulling the lever. The Juicy 7's are anything but set and forget, from the vibrations (note the round rotors I have to replace the polygons), to the variations in pad spacing/lever throw based on temps, and the leaky master cylinders with perpetual short supply on the membranes.

    Maybe SRAM is finally refining them, but it shouldn't have taken this long, especially since the premise of their design was fixing lots of problems we didn't know we had with disc brakes (AKA problems that didn't exist).

  46. #46
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    Brakes shouldn't require this much work to use.
    Amen to that, brother!!

    ...from the vibrations (note the round rotors I have to replace the polygons), to the variations in pad spacing/lever throw based on temps, and the leaky master cylinders with perpetual short supply on the membranes.
    Luckily, I really didn't run into any of the other problems you had. Yeah, the pads hit the legs on my polygon rotors, but "correct" rotors made the same gobble - so I wonder if there is really anything wrong with the polygon rotor? I never had a problem with "pump-up" (other than when I overfilled the system ) or disintegrating membranes and I really liked the pad contact adjustment. No doubt, there is an "issue" with the design of the brakes based on the appearent number of users having noise problems, but from my perspective, that's really the only problem I can see.

  47. #47
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    Believe me, the adjuster is only there for the gizmo factor. A properly designed brake won't need it and will feel great. Juicys need them because of how unstable they are in temperature ranges, as far as volume displacement in temperature changes is concerned.

  48. #48
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    A properly bled brake won't have that problem. Even if a brake is an open system, it can only account for so much fluid expansion. The Hayes El Caminos are notably one of the worst as far as pump-up and fade goes. You're absolutely right in that if a brake is bled correctly, it doesn't have those issues. And that holds true for the Juicys as well.

    Your isolated incident with the MC does not make it true for all the brakes. And all the parts are now available from all the major distributors.

  49. #49
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    I did notice some noise from my Juicy 5 the other day, some squeaking after I went through a small stream. My other bike does this too with the 4-pot Grimecas. The feel of the Juicy's are so good I ordered a pair to replace the 4-pots.

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    My solution

    Hello All!

    I've posted this before, but here it is again. I had the same gobble and pad chipping problem as everyone else until I did the following:
    1.) File a bevel into the leading and trailing edge of the brake pad ( just as they do on automotive high performance pads).
    2.) Switch to Shimano M555 disk rotors (if you can find them)
    3.) Break in as usual.

    This has solved the problem for me over the last year. However - I was hoping Avid would come up with a long term solution! Based on what I am reading here, the best one is to switch to Formulas.

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