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  1. #1
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    Juicy 5 upside down = bad!

    OK, so I made a rookie mistake and put my bike upside down to clean and adjust things. So now both of my brakes lost the firm grip they had and the levers engage a lot later now then before. Basically they're touching my knuckles now where before they would engage just after 10 mm travel. So is there a trick to fix this or is it bleeding time (which I don't know how to do yet)?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    going to have to bleed them. they have instructions on sram's website.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  3. #3
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    You'll have to bleed them. But to keep you riding until then, you can hang the bike by the front wheel and zip tie the levers so they are both squeezed. You may want to remove the front caliper and use the pad spacer. Let the lever be the highest point. The air will eventually migrate up to the lever. You may need to pump the lever a few times.

    You will need the bleed kit to bleed the brakes.

    A properly bled brake will not be affected by orientation.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    A properly bled brake will not be affected by orientation.
    I would completly agree with this and in my past experiences with Hydros this is true, however when I got my new bike this year with Juicy 3's the LBS said Juicy has this issue when turned upside down. I've been to lazy to get the bleed kit and bleed em' myself so far and I think I'd rather repace them with some XT's.
    Cannondale Rush *5z

  5. #5
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    I hang my bike upside down for months at a time when I'm at school. I pull it off the ceiling and go for a ride when I go home. No issues.

    Sounds like you've got a LBS that just doesn't want to bleed that brake.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    I hang my bike upside down for months at a time when I'm at school. I pull it off the ceiling and go for a ride when I go home. No issues.

    Sounds like you've got a LBS that just doesn't want to bleed that brake.
    I have a bike that fits both criteria. One that never needs anything and stops like a MoFo, and the Prophet which I cant get right yet. Bought the kit, followed the sheet, then the YouTube video. Upside down , and poof, there go the levers.

    CDT

  7. #7
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    Yep, bleed em. I don't know about 3&5's, but my Juicy 7's get turned upside down on a regular basis and have never had a problem because of it.

  8. #8
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    Yes, you need to bleed them. Don't kick yourself--the air was in the system BEFORE you inverted your bike. Air, water and contaminants accumulate in all systems and the quality of the fluid degrades, therefore brakes should be bled periodically as part of your preventive maintenance routine.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    Sounds like you've got a LBS that just doesn't want to bleed that brake.
    Bull crap. The people who work at the LBS are most likely (hopefully) just bike enthusiasts like you and me. Do you have all the particulars on every brake system memorized? I sure don't.

    Go ride around outside a few minutes so the brakes come back to life, then put the plunger with fluid on the lever and draw a vacuum. That should pull the bubbles out.
    .

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg
    Bull crap. The people who work at the LBS are most likely (hopefully) just bike enthusiasts like you and me. Do you have all the particulars on every brake system memorized? I sure don't.

    Go ride around outside a few minutes so the brakes come back to life, then put the plunger with fluid on the lever and draw a vacuum. That should pull the bubbles out.
    I do work at a LBS. I have previously worked at shops that simply do not want to do warranty work. Or they have no time to take any more repairs. Or they simply are not familiar with certain systems.They make up excuses instead.

    All brakes operate on the same or similar principals. It should not matter whether or not a bike is inverted.

    The attitude is not appreciated and entirely uncalled for.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    I do work at a LBS. I have previously worked at shops that simply do not want to do warranty work. Or they have no time to take any more repairs. Or they simply are not familiar with certain systems.They make up excuses instead.

    All brakes operate on the same or similar principals. It should not matter whether or not a bike is inverted.

    The attitude is not appreciated and entirely uncalled for.
    Yep.

    Or, said another way, it is (or should be) a sealed system, free of air bubbles. If turning the bike belly up causes problems, you've either got a leak (air), or you had air in the system pre-flip-over. Meaning, whoever bled it didn't really bleed it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    I do work at a LBS. I have previously worked at shops that simply do not want to do warranty work. Or they have no time to take any more repairs. Or they simply are not familiar with certain systems.They make up excuses instead.
    i don't work at a lbs, but i've done enough part time (ski) shop work to get pretty tired of being expected to know everything. It's really aggravating to be accused of being lazy or withholding information or stupid when you come across something that you just don't see in your normal day at the job.

    There's a lot of posts on mtbr about how the shop people are such jerks, and they're holding my bike hostage, and screwing me, etc etc, when usually its just miscommunication or some new guy doesn't know how to do paperwork. The attitude that all these people in service jobs are malicious really bugs me.

    sorry will, i had a long day.
    .

  13. #13
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    There's a lot of posts on mtbr about how the shop people are such jerks, and they're holding my bike hostage, and screwing me, etc etc, when usually its just miscommunication or some new guy doesn't know how to do paperwork. The attitude that all these people in service jobs are malicious really bugs me.
    But see, there's the rub. I work retail and it isn't acceptable when a new hire mishandles a situation with a customer. We either re-train this person OR we don't let them handle things like that until they are ready. I don't think it is malicious, but as a customer, perception IS reality.

    People wonder why 80% (or whatever the number is now) of small businesses fail in the first year. It is stuff like this. If I had a bike shop and a customer came in with a problem, I'd either explain why the problem is the way it is or fix it (which is exactly what we do where I work now). No, you can't please all the people all the time, but you can be honest with people which will take care of 99% of all your problems.

    Have the brakes bled. There is air in the system and there is no reason you can't turn your bike upside down. I have Juicys on my bike and have never had an issue...and I bled them myself.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg
    i don't work at a lbs, but i've done enough part time (ski) shop work to get pretty tired of being expected to know everything. It's really aggravating to be accused of being lazy or withholding information or stupid when you come across something that you just don't see in your normal day at the job.

    There's a lot of posts on mtbr about how the shop people are such jerks, and they're holding my bike hostage, and screwing me, etc etc, when usually its just miscommunication or some new guy doesn't know how to do paperwork. The attitude that all these people in service jobs are malicious really bugs me.

    sorry will, i had a long day.
    I get where you're coming from. I work with mountain bikes on a day to day basis. I'm well versed with brakes and suspension.

    I know practically nothing about Campy stuff though. I can set it up. That's about it. Ha. We've got other guys to take care of that stuff.

    The shop I've been at for the last 2 years, if somebody doesn't know how to answer a question, they just send the customer over to somebody that does know. Yeah, we've had new employees that have really messed things up. But we do our best to rectify any problems.

    As I said, I've worked at other shops that just made excuses.

  15. #15
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    Thanks guys for the advice! For now I'll take the bike back to the shop where I just got it from to have them bleed the brakes. They did worked perfect though before the flip engaging with just a little take-up and no mushiness. That makes me think maybe there is a leak somewhere where it sucked in air while being upside down. The rear is worse than the front. They still both grab the rotors hard enough, it's just that the levers now pull a lot closer to the handle bar, particularly the rear.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    You'll have to bleed them. But to keep you riding until then, you can hang the bike by the front wheel and zip tie the levers so they are both squeezed. You may want to remove the front caliper and use the pad spacer. Let the lever be the highest point. The air will eventually migrate up to the lever. You may need to pump the lever a few times.

    You will need the bleed kit to bleed the brakes.

    A properly bled brake will not be affected by orientation.
    I don't know if that is correct.

    I never had an issue with Hayes brakes being upside down though. I did have a problem with shimano brakes when they were upside down for a long time. Maybe you are correct, but after that experience (on a trail after doing some repair then finding I have no brakes to ride back miles and miles) I don't put my bike with shimano upside down any more. The way the expansion works on the XT brakes I am talking about the possibility of air entering the system if it is upside down and the levers are pressed seems pretty high.

  17. #17
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    There is a diaphragm under the reservoir cover on the Shimano brakes. The diaphragm is supposed to displace a small amount of fluid (and any air) when you reinstall the cover. This diaphragm also helps to seal. It should be fine if it is bled properly.

    Hope brakes are a similar design. Never had issues with hanging those up either.

  18. #18
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    nah, there's no leak, there's just air in the reservoir in the lever. Ordinarily, its fine because the reservoir is closed off from the part of the brake under pressure when you squeeze the brakes, but when you set it upside down the system is open and air can travel into the the lines where it IS under pressure. Thats why i suggested topping up the levers when the brakes feel good.

    Hayes reservoir on some of their brakes is so small that if theres any air in there at all the brakes aren't going to work, even when the bike is right side up.
    .

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    There is a diaphragm under the reservoir cover on the Shimano brakes. The diaphragm is supposed to displace a small amount of fluid (and any air) when you reinstall the cover. This diaphragm also helps to seal. It should be fine if it is bled properly.

    Hope brakes are a similar design. Never had issues with hanging those up either.
    Is the diaphragm supposed to be sealed? I noticed mine was split in the center when I was investigating WTH happened after I got back. I wasn't sure if that was just the way they were or not, and the brakes work completely fine still, just not good to have it upside down on the bars and pump the levers as you rock it back and forth.

  20. #20
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    The diaphragm is supposed to be sealed. There should be a ridge/depression to displace fluid and allow for expansion.

    Why would you pump the levers while it's upside down anyways? That increases the likelihood of drawing air into the system. The MC is at the bottom of the lever. When it's upside down, the air rises up. Pressing the lever pushes air into the lines.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg
    nah, there's no leak, there's just air in the reservoir in the lever. Ordinarily, its fine because the reservoir is closed off from the part of the brake under pressure when you squeeze the brakes, but when you set it upside down the system is open and air can travel into the the lines where it IS under pressure. Thats why i suggested topping up the levers when the brakes feel good.
    Iíve been hanging my bike upside down for about a year with no problem. However today I noticed my front brake was soft but I was able to pump it up and get it back to normal. So I probably need to add some fluid. Iíve got the bleed kit. So how do you add fluid to top off the resivoir? Iíve got the Juicy 7ís.

  22. #22
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    if its been a year, i'd probably just do a bleed. If you only have a couple minutes, make sure the brakes are operating normally, undo the bleed screw in the lever, half fill your syringe, attach it to the screw hole, and draw a vacuum with the syringe. Do that a couple times and bubbles should stop coming out. Done.
    .

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    The diaphragm is supposed to be sealed. There should be a ridge/depression to displace fluid and allow for expansion.

    Why would you pump the levers while it's upside down anyways? That increases the likelihood of drawing air into the system. The MC is at the bottom of the lever. When it's upside down, the air rises up. Pressing the lever pushes air into the lines.
    I pumped the brake lever when the bike was right side up.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg
    if its been a year, i'd probably just do a bleed. If you only have a couple minutes, make sure the brakes are operating normally, undo the bleed screw in the lever, half fill your syringe, attach it to the screw hole, and draw a vacuum with the syringe. Do that a couple times and bubbles should stop coming out. Done.
    That only bleeds half the system. If it's been a year, it wouldn't hurt to do a full bleed and replace all the fluid.

    You do need a bleed kit to bleed the Avids. The included instructions are pretty thorough. There is also a video on youtube.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    That only bleeds half the system. If it's been a year, it wouldn't hurt to do a full bleed and replace all the fluid.

    You do need a bleed kit to bleed the Avids. The included instructions are pretty thorough. There is also a video on youtube.
    Well I ended up doing the full bleed using the youtube video as a guide. For sure in a full bleed you end up replacing some of the fluid. However, Iím not sure how much fluid you would need in the syringe to replace all the fluid.

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