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  1. #1
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    How brake products are enough Avid?

    Am I making a fair point if I say that Avid seem to be making a few too many hydraulic disk brake products? Maybe make 3 or 4 really well and impress everyone, not 10 products that have far from universal praise!.

    1. xx-world-cup-hydraulic-disc-brake
    2. xx-hydraulic-disc-brake
    3. x0-hydraulic-disc-brake
    4. elixir-r-hydraulic-disc-brake
    5. elixir-5-hydraulic-disc-brake
    6. elixir-cr-hydraulic-disc-brake
    7. elixir-3-hydraulic-disc-brake
    8. code-hydraulic-disc-brake
    9. code-r-hydraulic-disc-brake
    10. juicy-3-hydraulic-disc-brake

    Oh, and Code 5, Juicy Ultimate, Juicy 5, and Juicy 7, can't find on website, discontinued?

    Also hows about selling the Clean Sweep X rotors as an option with the brakes and rubber coating the back of the pads? Gobble gobble .
    Last edited by lew242; 02-17-2011 at 05:17 AM.

  2. #2
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    meh, love my avids!

  3. #3
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    Or make one set that doesn't make horrid noises. Anyone want to buy some Elixers... magura here I come

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshuagore
    Or make one set that doesn't make horrid noises. Anyone want to buy some Elixers... magura here I come
    +1 Magura Louise Carbon?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by lew242
    +1 Magura Louise Carbon?
    Marta FR... lighter than my elixers and they are green so they match my bike... I am such a sucker.

  6. #6
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    The Juicy series (except for the J3's) were replaced by the Elixers.

  7. #7
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    How many component levels does Shimano have? When you think about the fact that Avid brakes are easily the most popular OEM brake it kinda makes sense.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by theextremist04
    Avid brakes are easily the most popular OEM brake it kinda makes sense.
    One high level lightweight XC brake. A lower end XC race one.
    A high end FR/DH brake, and a medium level one, which could also be the high-end AM brake too, and a cheaper AM/trail/DJ one.

    Five brakes I think is all they need, but really make them much better than they are now with constant improvements highly extensive R&D. Surely using the same manpower to improve 5 products instead of 10 would double the rate that their products improved now.

  9. #9
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    I think SRAM is becoming the GMC of the MTB world. To many over lapping products.

  10. #10
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    200 options gives SRAM a marketing angle to get a user to "upgrade" their brakes when they start working like trash 6mos in. "Are your 'cheap' J7s failing? Try the upgraded Elixirs or Codes!" ... ignoring the fact that the only reason an upgraded Avid line feels good is because the brakes they are replacing have become trash.

    Lipstick on a pig; poor quality brakes that get more and more expensive with questionable value-adds while ignoring the underlying disposableness of their brakes.

  11. #11
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    Ettore, do you not find the whole situation sad? I'm massive fan of SRAM drive trains and the BB7 brakes, and they even make OK forks.

  12. #12
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    thats what happens when you are fully entrenched in the oem market

  13. #13
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    Lotsa Avid hatin' here. Hating choices. Hating features that many find practical, useful. Hating things you don't even know why you're hating. Bandwagon hatin'.
    Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. -- Wild Bill

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu412
    Lotsa Avid hatin' here. Hating choices. Hating features that many find practical, useful. Hating things you don't even know why you're hating. Bandwagon hatin'.
    +1

    Why is an Avid hater making spreadsheets on Avid brake models? Seems like an awful waste of time.

    Mine work. Id upgrade if I had to, I dont. Not particularly fond of throwing money on simple mechanical issues.

  15. #15
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    Most of there hydro brakes have the same basic make-up. Realisticly they are R&Ding two maybe three systems, the rest is cosmetics and adjustability features. I think their brakes are great, sure there is other choices out there, it's a consumers dream

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by frdfandc
    The Juicy series (except for the J3's) were replaced by the Elixers.
    oh really now!

  17. #17
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    I have had my Juicy 7s for 3 years and had to bleed and clean them only once. I just received my new Elixir Rs and can't wait to go and try them out. I have no complaints about the number of different brake systems as long as there is something I can afford.

  18. #18
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    Avid hating? It's not hating it's disappointment. Cheapo disposable brakes that are rapidly losing market share to Formula and Magura etc.

    The reality is the Elixirs and Juicy brakes are just cheapened and dumbed down Codes. Maybe many people don't have problems with vibrations, noises etc from the back of their bike, but lots of people do, including me. So annoying that I'm thinking about putting a BB7 on the back. That's not Avid hating behavior. If I was an Avid hater I'd bin my Elixirs and buy Magura.

  19. #19
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    Or mechanical ineptitude, thats an idea. No problem is so big that you cant throw money at it

  20. #20
    NWS
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    I accidentally the whole product line.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS
    I accidentally the whole product line.
    ???

    All your base are belong to us
    Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. -- Wild Bill

  22. #22
    NWS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu412
    ???

    All your base are belong to us



    How bases are enough, Malibu? How bases?

  23. #23
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    My Juicy's work great. No noise. Well, unless they get very wet then yeah they make some noise. Are there any disc brakes that are totally quite, even when wet?
    Nobody cares...........

  24. #24
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    No amount of fidgeting including the changing of rotors, pads, etc.. could remove my elixer noise. It would always come back, I am no amateur and did not have a sloppy poorly aligned frame. It was a poor investment and have since, moved to another brand, would love to go back when they make a solid package, but will be extremely hesitant. No bashing just factual experience, first and second hand. I think others who have made my same purchase just want 2-3 great models as opposed to 10 with similar flaws.
    Josh

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshuagore
    No amount of fidgeting including the changing of rotors, pads, etc.. could remove my elixer noise. It would always come back, I am no amateur and did not have a sloppy poorly aligned frame. It was a poor investment and have since, moved to another brand, would love to go back when they make a solid package, but will be extremely hesitant. No bashing just factual experience, first and second hand. I think others who have made my same purchase just want 2-3 great models as opposed to 10 with similar flaws.
    Which is exactly my point, I couldn't agree more.

    Where do some of these guys get off? 'My Juicy's/Elixirs have been fine for me, so everyone else doesn't understand these brakes/must be incompetent.' Sorry dudes the reports have been too consistent and frequent.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by lew242
    Which is exactly my point, I couldn't agree more.

    Where do some of these guys get off? 'My Juicy's/Elixirs have been fine for me, so everyone else doesn't understand these brakes/must be incompetent.' Sorry dudes the reports have been too consistent and frequent.
    I have been guilty of assuming everyone else must be an idiot 'because I don't have the problem' regarding other equipment. So I understand, and if mine worked well, or if there were any other paths to take to make them work better, then I would have kept them and kept trying, but there wasn't, I tried everything short of removing cps washers and replacing with machined flat washers(which I am still going to try before I sell them). Hell my brakes were checked for flatness on a surface plate, one pair of rotors was ground, I carefully stoned all edges, chamfered pad edges,
    Josh

  27. #27
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    Actually I think I may have at least figured out some of the grinding/vibrations sounds coming from the back end. Put the brakes on another bike with much more vertical brake bolt points, the problem has just disappeared...for now!

  28. #28
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuagore
    No amount of fidgeting including the changing of rotors, pads, etc.. could remove my elixer noise. It would always come back, I am no amateur and did not have a sloppy poorly aligned frame. It was a poor investment and have since, moved to another brand, would love to go back when they make a solid package, but will be extremely hesitant. No bashing just factual experience, first and second hand. I think others who have made my same purchase just want 2-3 great models as opposed to 10 with similar flaws.
    Josh
    Mine work fine no noise just have to set them up properly and torque all the screws

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpugh5
    Mine work fine no noise just have to set them up properly and torque all the screws
    Right. I guess I have been doing it wrong constantly.

  30. #30
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    Very good possibility

  31. #31
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    Formotion Products
    http://www.formot

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by lew242
    Which is exactly my point, I couldn't agree more.

    Where do some of these guys get off? 'My Juicy's/Elixirs have been fine for me, so everyone else doesn't understand these brakes/must be incompetent.' Sorry dudes the reports have been too consistent and frequent.

    My juicys had gobbles, squeals and knee shaking vibrations a few weeks into their purchase. I maintain two sets on two different bikes. It took three rides on one of them and a little research on the internet to figure it out and solve it. I applied the same solution to both. I understand that stuff should work out of the box. However, with a little elbow grease, they work excellently.

  33. #33
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    My juicys had gobbles, squeals and knee shaking vibrations a few weeks into their purchase. I maintain two sets on two different bikes. It took three rides on one of them and a little research on the internet to figure it out and solve it. I applied the same solution to both. I understand that stuff should work out of the box. However, with a little elbow grease, they work excellently.
    True, most people can fix the problem eventually with some research, but why should they have to?

  34. #34
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    I challenge the fact that they are always fixable. They get better with different parts such as pads/rotors, and can be adjusted properly, but they often come out of adjustment, regardless of following torque spec or making up your own.

    My experience has mostly been with the lower end Elixer 5, but the design flaws are throughout the lineup. I believe those flaws are related to the CPS washer system. This system I believe allows for a greater frame tolerances, and thus there mass market appeal to major frame manufacturers, but is also a an Achilles heel.

    My criticism of avid brakes is not for a lack of enthusiasm for the Sram product lineup, I would like nothing more than to be all sram, as I find the rest of there product line sans shock offerings to be spot on for my needs.

    The assumption can be made that I must be an amateur wrench with little patients, but this sells me short. (insert mechanical/engineering aptitude boasting here)

    I stand by what I said, the brakes have flaws, and are often in the price range of higher end brakes without similar flaws. I say, make the product as easy to setup as possible, the occasional quirk is part of life, but an inherent problem is not acceptable.

    p.s. I just setup 10 year old hayes brakes in under 5 minutes and I bet they stay silent until the pads wear to metal, and perform great until that point.

  35. #35
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    Anyone still purchasing avid brakes needs to get their head examined.
    "Ride it Like You Stole it"!

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt_hog
    Anyone still purchasing avid brakes needs to get their head examined.
    Boy, we got told... by my dad.
    Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. -- Wild Bill

  37. #37
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu412
    Boy, we got told... by my dad.
    Son?...Please Come Home. I'm really, really sorry
    "Ride it Like You Stole it"!

  38. #38
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    I think Avid's vibration/noise issues are a result of cheap rotors. I had terrible vibration and noise on XTC29er1 and most the noise and practically all of the vibration went away when I used Shimano RT-76 floating rotors. But part the problem is just economics.

    A decent floating rotor will cost you anywhere between $40-$60. Obviously it's alot cheaper for a bike manufacturer to add a good rotor to bike than it is for us but adding a decent rotor will add $20-$40 to the retail price of your brakes,considering that you use two sets per bike that's a $40-$80 cost increase. That's alot of money considering that a pair of Code R's can be purchased for $280 with mounting hardware and rotors.

    I think Shimano's strategy of selling brakes and rotors separately creates a much better customer experience because Shimano can still sell the brake set competitively and allows the customer to take the risk with the rotor.

  39. #39
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    All of those choices are driven by product managers asking for them, not the aftermarket consumer.

    All I want from avid is a brake that doesn't feel spongy.

  40. #40
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    I have Juicy 7's and Elixir CR's and neither feel spongy. They squeak less than my bud's XTR brakes (and cost a lot le$$). I'm using G2 rotors on both rides. Going to try Ashima's on one of them for the heck of it.

  41. #41
    ride hard take risks
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab
    All of those choices are driven by product managers asking for them, not the aftermarket consumer.

    All I want from avid is a brake that doesn't feel spongy.
    Set up
    Formotion Products
    http://www.formot

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