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  1. #1
    Arnborg strik
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    Hope Tech M4 vs Marta SL "poll"

    Quick poll.

    Got a Pivot mach4 and need new brakes for it.
    Choices are:
    The new Hope Tech M4 with 180mm rotor(floating) front and rear
    OR
    2009 magura Marta SL in red with 180mm rotor front and rear.

    The hopes will be about 190 dollars cheaper

    Riding is tecnical singletrack with a lot roots, and small ups and downs.
    Weight is 190 alll geared up.

    Which would you choose???????????????

    Thanks
    Thomas

  2. #2
    Commit or eat sh!t
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    These are two complete different type of brakes. Marta is XC, while Hope M4 is more AM/FR oriented. Marta is light, while Hope is heavy. You need to figure out what type of riding you will be doing first. If you are an advanced/intermediate rider who requires strong brakes, go with Hope. If you are more of a beginner, pick cheaper brakes, like Avid Juicys. If you are a XC guy concerned about weight, then go with Martas.

  3. #3
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    they would be better if compared to the gustav's if you want to compared with magura products

  4. #4
    Meh.
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    The M4s are not really comparable to the Gustavs... more to the Louise FR.

    It sounds like the M4 may be a better match to your riding style. If you want to save some weight, you can run a Mini or a smaller rotor or both in the rear. The Marta SL is an excellent brake... but more for XC.

  5. #5
    Arnborg strik
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    I would

    call myself a skilled rider (been riding mtb's since 1994)
    Is a said my trails are very tecnical with a LOT of roots,and no big downhils.
    Denmark is pretty flat
    What i need is a powerful brake with GREAT modulation.
    Weight is not so important.

    The looks of hope is industrial where Marta SL i more "designed" (i like both)
    Love the red colour of the Marta SL

    One thing that keeps me leaning towards the HOPE is that it is very EASY to bleed
    and the lever shape is great (the TECH M4 is supposed to be better)
    + there should be no lever play ( i HATE lever play)

  6. #6
    Commit or eat sh!t
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    If you want something with great modulation, and $$$ is no object, get Formula Ones. That is what I use on both of my bikes (trail and DH). Medium weight. Great power. Great modulation. Looks good. Best brakes out there right now. Formula Oros are also good.

    Marta is okay, but not for steep stuff. It could be okay for technical sections, as long as it is not constant and long like a downhill run. Hope is okay, but Formulas are way better. Easier to bleed than Hopes also.

  7. #7
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    I went from 07 Marta SL's to Formula Puros and was very happy. The older version Martas where difficult to keep drag free and lacked power compared to the Puros. I have now ditched the Formulas due to few problems. I now have the 09 Marta SL and I can say that they equal to the Puros in power, they have better modulation and the "new" bleed system couldn't be easier. Plus, you don't have to mess with Dot fluid. Set-up was a basic and they have stayed drag free.

  8. #8
    I think I need to Upgrade
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    I would go with an M4 or a Mini up front. and a Mini inthe rear.

  9. #9
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    If weight is important, also consider the Hope Mini Pro, they are lighter than Marta SLs. I'm a Magura to Hope convert, the main reason being the flexibility and serviceability of Hope. Oh, yeah and don't forget to calculate the brake bleed kit into the equation, another 30 euro saving to the Hope brakes.

    If you want an all round brakeset and weight is not your first concern, I'd say go M4 or M4 front Mini back. A 160 back should easily do the job, especially with an M4. I've got an M4 with 180 in the back (heat capacity for the Alps in the summer) and can lock the rear wheel very easy. If you buy Hope you can get braided hoses as a pretty cheap upgrade. I hear a lot of people saying they don't notice a difference and thus that it is purely cosmetic. However I find that the best part about these braided hoses is that they are very flexible (really much more flexible than regular hoses), which is nice for some suspension/cable-routing designs.

  10. #10
    Cannonball!
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    I love my M4's and floating rotors. They have been trouble free (knock on wood), and pretty light for a brake set with a four piston caliper. I would say that their power to weight ratio is probably right up near the top.

  11. #11
    Arnborg strik
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    Order has been made

    2009 Hope Tech M4 180mm front 160mm rear
    Floating rotor's and braided lines.

    They should arrive tomorrow

    Will post pictures and weight's

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas
    2009 Hope Tech M4 180mm front 160mm rear
    Floating rotor's and braided lines.

    They should arrive tomorrow

    Will post pictures and weight's
    Well?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    Well?
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas
    They should arrive tomorrow
    Patience grasshopper

  14. #14
    Hack Racer
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    Personally I think the Hope Mini X2 pro is a better comparision to the Magura Marta SLs.

  15. #15
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    Thomas, have they arrived yet? Would love to know what you think re power and modulation. Piccies would be great too!

  16. #16
    Arnborg strik
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    They have arrived today

    And they are the best looking brakes i have ever seen

    Won't be able to speak about their performance yet! Still need to build my wheels

    here is a lot of pictures.
    The complete weights is 481,2gram for the front brake :
    full lenght braided brake lines,183mm floating rotor and adapter postmount to postmount.

    Rearbrake is 456,4 gram with braided line 160mm rotor and post to IS adapter

    both are weighed without bolts (going to use TI-bolts)

    One thing i love like is that there is NO play whatsoever in the brakelevers
    Attached Images Attached Images

  17. #17
    Arnborg strik
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    More pictures

    They look good
    Attached Images Attached Images

  18. #18
    Arnborg strik
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    And more pictures

    Cant wait to try them
    Attached Images Attached Images

  19. #19
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    Wow great photos, they look cool

    Please let us know how they perform when you get a chance

  20. #20
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    sweet brakes

    where did you get those bad boys from? Everywhere I look they are out of stock

  21. #21
    Arnborg strik
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    Bought them


  22. #22
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    Thomas, have you fitted and tried the new M4's yet?

    Some pics of them on bike would be good too.

  23. #23
    Arnborg strik
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    Sorry

    Not yet
    Still waiting for my hubs,which are in customs right now.
    Hope they will be here by the end of the week (still need to build them though)

    some times next week the bike should be finished

  24. #24
    emtb.pl
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    My set of V2 front/M4 rear will be here within a week
    Those are sooo sexy!

  25. #25
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    Awesome pics, Thomas! Lovely Brakes.
    I just ordered my Hope Tech M4 180/180 set with braided hose and Ti bolts.Will be building my new ride during Christmas holiday.
    Was 50/50 with M4 or X2, but more power is better then 200g weight save.

    Just hope i made right choice.

  26. #26
    Mooney
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    Hi All,
    New to MTBR, found the reviews really useful whilst plannin last build and wanted to return the good deed. Signed up yesterday to add a review of my shiny new Tech M4s, and they don't have a listing yet! Came across your forum instead and thought people might appreciate a mini-review.
    Been riding these for about 4 weeks now and couldn't be happier with them, simply amazing. Fitted them on my Evil DOC, which gets used for pretty much everything - riding to work (Can't afford more than one bike like this!) throught to what I guess would be classed as AM/ light freeride.
    Most obvious thing you notive as soon as you see them in the flesh is the quality of finish, the pictures really don't do them justice, as all the milled aluminium etc really is quite exceptionally well engineered. Attention to detail is amazing, including finish all around the caliper, drilling on the lever blades etc.
    The new Tech lever has a great feel to it, no play at all and ample adjustability. Feels good in the hand and can't really ask more than that.
    The brakes themselves, when the pads have bedded in (takes a little longer than I've found with some others, but well worth it!) offer a phenomenal balance between power and modulation. I went with the 200/180 setup so that I would never lack power on those more hardcore rides, figuring I'd just put up with being a bit overpowered for lighter single track, XC duties etc., but I can honestly say that even cruising through town to work the brakes are totally usable. This is really just a bonus when compared to the massive amounts of power that are available when required, as these will obviously lock both wheels if you squeeze to hard.
    Unlike some of the other hydraulic discs I've used, for me the stand-out feature of the Hopes is that the offer both this massive power AND the ability to control it and apply exactly the amount of force you want really without even having to think about it, as the lever feedback is absolutely spot on.
    Weaknesses - none really, they're a little pricy but this is definitely a case of getting what you pay for. Weight might upset some people, but then if you're overly fond of saving grams by wearing Lycra you're probably not going to buy a 4 piston AM/FR brake set (Wouldn't consider them to be overly weighty anyway).
    In summary, they are awsome. Props to Hope for another brilliantly engineered product that functions unquestioningly in spite of pretty much whatever you throw at it (Also using Pro IIs F&R and would recomend these very highly).
    Hope you find this useful. If you've got any specific questions add a post and I'll try and help.

  27. #27
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    Ben1 - that is a quality and timely response!!! Good man. You have exactly the set up that I am thinking about. Couple more questions, if you don't mind...
    Any noise with them???
    What shifters are you running, and do they fit together properly???
    How do they hold up on the longer decents???
    Is the modulation REALLY that good??? - I've got Avid Codes at the mo, and the power is massive, but the control is non-existent - they are going up for sale shortly...

    Cheers
    Jon

  28. #28
    Mooney
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    No problem man.
    Have been a little noisy so far. Pads squeak a bit whilst breaking in but that quietens as the power grows
    Got the Deore XT dual release shifters and the fit isn't the best, sit a little awkwardly together but dual direction on both shift levers seems to work well how I've positioned them and adapting to shifting like with a push on both triggers hasn't been too hard.
    Not tried the Codes, only avids I've tested are the Juicy 5s, and the M4s are in a different league. Have by no means tried al the brakes out there but really massively impressed with the feel and control of these.
    Not had chance o do much in the way of epic down hills, but on longer flowing sinlge track they are brilliant.Will let you know more as I test them more (Suh an arduous chore!).
    Ben

  29. #29
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    I am curious if any of you run the 4-pot in front and the single, lighter one in the back. The levers are the same, right? Wouldn't that be a great compromise?
    "It looks flexy"

  30. #30
    Hack Racer
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    Here is the Mini M4. A little more minimalistic and XC oriented than the normal Tech M4. But since you are comparing the MartaSL, you should be comparing that to the Mini M4 Pro as both are light weight XC brakes.

    2009 Hope Mini X2 Pro Weights and Pics

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheers!
    Here is the Mini M4. A little more minimalistic and XC oriented than the normal Tech M4. But since you are comparing the MartaSL, you should be comparing that to the Mini M4 Pro as both are light weight XC brakes.

    2009 Hope Mini X2 Pro Weights and Pics
    Mono Mini (Pro)?

    Mono M4 is the previous 4 piston "monoblock" caliper, which has gone through variations in which it was matched with the Mini lever.

    I've got Mono Minis on one bike and they are borderline useless in 180/160. I believe the Marta SL has some decent kudos for performance with larger rotors. The Mono Mini is light, but not hugely effective for my 200lbs performing UK trail-riding duties. With freshly bedded pads in perfect dry conditions they are fine. I ride in the UK, so they are never fine.

    I have Mono M4s on another bike (200/180) and they are fantastic in all regards. Thinking about swapping out my Mono Minis for Mono M4s.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercarm
    Mono Mini (Pro)?

    Mono M4 is the previous 4 piston "monoblock" caliper, which has gone through variations in which it was matched with the Mini lever.

    I've got Mono Minis on one bike and they are borderline useless in 180/160. I believe the Marta SL has some decent kudos for performance with larger rotors. The Mono Mini is light, but not hugely effective for my 200lbs performing UK trail-riding duties. With freshly bedded pads in perfect dry conditions they are fine. I ride in the UK, so they are never fine.

    I have Mono M4s on another bike (200/180) and they are fantastic in all regards. Thinking about swapping out my Mono Minis for Mono M4s.
    Did you try the M4 with the M2 rear? Maybe run 180 front and rear?
    "It looks flexy"

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    Did you try the M4 with the M2 rear? Maybe run 180 front and rear?
    My Mono Minis are OE equipment from 2007 and are the IS mount versions with the original Mini lever and braided hoses. Because they're IS, it will be a bit ugly to convert to +20. I'll put up with them and wait until I can scrape the cash together for a better alternative.

  34. #34
    ntj
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    I'm on the fence between Tech M4s and Avid Elixir CRs. The only thing that is holding me back from the Hopes is the supposed fit problems with SRAM triggers. Can anyone tell me if it is really all that bad? I already run them with a bit of space between the current J7s, I don't mind if they aren't ultra close together.

  35. #35
    Mooney
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    I am curious if any of you run the 4-pot in front and the single, lighter one in the back. The levers are the same, right? Wouldn't that be a great compromise?
    Hi Man,
    Running 4 pots F&R. Think the new tech lever is the same across the range (Really sweet, incidentally). Woul have thought an M4/mini setup would be pretty nice, but I'm really not bothered about the weight and am more concerned with not lacking power when needed.
    I Was a little concerned that the 4 pots F&R would be a little overpowered for 'normal' riding duties but really have no complaints, only locked up the rear wheel a couple of times whilst gettting used to the new levers (Not to say that power is lacking, just that I'm really loving the feel and control).
    Ben

  36. #36
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    ntj. I think it really IS that bad. If you run them over the shifters the levers are practically flat to the bars. If you have big hands you can run them way in board on the bars, but the flare of the bars towards the centre starts to be a problem. If you run them between the shifters and grips, the shifters will be to far away, and the levers will be ring finger braking!

    Hope have really bolloxed up what could be an exquiste product.

    Jon

  37. #37
    Ballstein Models
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntj
    the supposed fit problems with SRAM triggers. Can anyone tell me if it is really all that bad? .

    I have a set of new Tech M4's and X0 trigger shifters. When using separate mounts you are a bit limited by contact between the top of the shifters and the bulk of the lever. I solved the problem by swapping the avid matchmaker clamp for the hope clamp. Of course it is not as nice looking but functional by solving the fit problem. I understand Hope is planning their own clamp to solve the issue. I'll just update once that is available but for now this works great.

  38. #38
    Ballstein Models
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    crappy iphone pics.....
    Attached Images Attached Images

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogprint
    crappy iphone pics.....
    That is very cool - so they just bolt right on, no modification?
    "It looks flexy"

  40. #40
    Ballstein Models
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    No modification at all. I re-used the Hope bolts just to be sure the threads would match. Everything lined up fine. IMHO it is a perfectly adequate solution. We'll see if Hope delivers on their own component but with this setup I do not need to hold my breath.
    Last edited by hogprint; 01-19-2009 at 09:56 AM. Reason: syntax

  41. #41
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    One more thing - do they have a cover that isn't the union jack? I really don't like it on my brakes no offense UK'ers.
    "It looks flexy"

  42. #42
    I Tried Them ALL... Moderator
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    Looks like Thomas is too busy riding....because he never got back to us with his ride impressions, of the Hopes!
    "The ONLY person who needs to race.....is the entrant"

  43. #43
    ntj
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    Thanks Jon C and hogprint, helpful answers!

  44. #44
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    Hogprint, thanks for that, do you find the position that the clamp holds the brake levers in relation to the shifters normal/natural/comfortable when using the matchmakers?

  45. #45
    Ballstein Models
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    They seem normal to me. There is a lot of adjustability. The clamps themselves can be swapped from side to side to allow you to bias your shifters either inboard or outboard. The bolt that the pods attach to is similar to a single bolt seatpost allowing more lateral adjustability as well as fore and aft as clearance allows. Honestly probably more options than with the separate clamps. I am not 100% sure that the bag and part number pictured is accurate as I also ordered the plain clamps to de-match-make a bike I was selling but it should get you to the correct catalog page.

  46. #46
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    Have seen some pictures from the Core Bike Show of the hope equivalent of the matchmaker, look cool (although brown), spoke to Hope and was told should be available in a couple of weeks, just holding out to get some Tech M4's with the brackets to match my SRAM's.

  47. #47
    Ballstein Models
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    from the singletrack world site:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  48. #48
    ...idios...
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogprint
    from the singletrack world site:
    Here are some slightly more representative pictures...

    p233.jpg

    p235.jpg

    p237.jpg

    p238.jpg


    Bumsmoke. I think the hubs look pretty nice, as does the seatpin/clamp, but the stem and brakes look feckin' awful.

    What use is a philosopher who doesn't hurt anybody's feelings? -
    Diogenes


  49. #49
    Ballstein Models
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    That is a lot of, um, brown. Certainly crossing the lines of good taste to have such a large amount of monochromatic anodization, IMHO. How quickly the masses forget the visual terrorism of vast amounts of purple ano in the early 90's.

  50. #50
    ...idios...
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    "How quickly the masses forget the visual terrorism of vast amounts of purple ano in the early 90's."

    Kudos to you for reminding people.

    I didn't notice at first, but the picture you posted does quite clearly show Hope's answer to the SRAM/Avid Matchmaker.

    What use is a philosopher who doesn't hurt anybody's feelings? -
    Diogenes


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