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  1. #1
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    Hope Tech lever + M780 shifters = no good

    Just thought I'd post this up as a community service announcement.

    I've been ironing out the kinks on a new bike build and have had a lot of trouble getting a comfortable setup between my new Hope Tech M4 brakes and my shifters. I suspect that if anyone else out there is doing the same, this info could save hassles and $.

    The brakes are brilliant but they do have quite bulky master cylinders which can make it a little more difficult to get brakes and shifters to sit well together on the bars. There have been a few threads about this on this board.

    I found that I couldn't get the XT M780 shifters to sit well together at all. They would either be too far outboard and mess with the grips or the shifters would need to be rotated too far to be operate comfortably (I was having to having to rotate my wrist to be able to push the paddles vertically downwards).

    Hope don't make a matchmaker clamp that works with the M780 shifters (at least not yet).

    I decided this would be a good excuse to upgrade to XTR shifters (M980). Honestly, the XT ones were great but the position was just annoying. I also forked out for the matchmaker clamps to go with the M980s.

    Unfortunately the matchmaker clamps I received only work well with the M970 shifter. It's hard to find good information on this, but Hope use the same part number for two slightly different matchmaker clamps for XTR levers. Hope's part number is HBSP 263. There's an older one that only works for M970 shifters and a newer one that apparently has been changed to work for both M970 and M980 shifters. The newer one has "M970/M980" written on them. The older one won't fit to the M980s unless you put a washer between the clamp and the shifter body. I found that the washer was causing the shifters to rotate as I pushed the paddles with the fastening bolt done up as tight as I dared.

    The good news is that the M980s have a much slimmer body than the M780s so they sit much better under the brake master cylinder. This means (at least for me) that The M980s can be made to work just fine with the shifter's stock clamps. It just means you lose a bit of precious real estate on your bar, and I still haven't got an ideal set up when I throw a Reverb lever into the mix.

    I'm currently trying to get a hold of the M970/M980 clamp. I'll also be trying to sell my M780 shifters and finding a home for the Hope matchmaker clamp that works with the M970s...

    PW

  2. #2
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    You can use the Shimano Deore XT M770 Dyna Sys 10 speed shifters with the Hope Tech XT matchmaker brackets. You have to remove the gear indicators and there's a nub of metal on one of the shifters which has to be filed off.

    Once you've done that they will fit properly.

    Edit: I found a picture from last year of my bike when it had Hope Tech brake levers and Shimano M770 shifters w/ matchmakers fitted.

    Edit 2: My shifters were 2011 Shimano Deore XT SL-M770-10, rather than the 2012 Shimano Deore XT SL-M780-10 shifters. I've edited the model numbers in this post to the correct ones in order to avoid any confusion.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hope Tech lever + M780 shifters = no good-powertap_joule.jpg  

    Last edited by WR304; 10-14-2011 at 09:22 AM.

  3. #3
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    Hmmm, interesting...

    Yours looks like a good set up, WR. It is odd though, my shifters (m780) look like the pic below with the covers removed. I can't see how the three bolts on the XT matchmaker would fit on this. Are yours the same?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  4. #4
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    I found my XT shifters and had a look at them. They're 2011 Deore XT SL-M770-10 shifters, rather than the 2012 Deore XT SL-M780-10 shifters that you have.

    The 2011 Shimano Deore XT 10 speed shifters (Dyna Sys) are the same design as the previous 9 speed shifters and fit onto the Hope matchmaker brackets. The 2012 Shimano Deore XT shifters have a different design for the brackets.

    I've attached a picture below that shows the mounting holes on the 2011 Deore XT SL-M770-10 shifters.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hope Tech lever + M780 shifters = no good-shimano_m770-10_shifters.jpg  


  5. #5
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    It all makes sense now WR. Thanks for clearing that up!

  6. #6
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    Wr304 Thanks for posting this! I've got a set of Hopes that I'd love to try with those mounts.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spunge View Post
    Wr304 Thanks for posting this! I've got a set of Hopes that I'd love to try with those mounts.
    Just make sure that you have 2011 Shimano SL-M770-10 shifters, rather than 2012 Shimano SL-M780-10 shifters. SL-M770-10 shifters are the ones which work with the Hope matchmakers and are pictured in posts #2 and #4.

    The 2012 Shimano SL-M780-10 shifters as pictured in post #3 look like they don't work.

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the info! Looks like I might not be using them after all

  9. #9
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    I bought the Hope XT shifter mounts for my Tech M4 brakes and new Shimano M780 XT shifters, thinking that they'd match. They didn't to my frustration so I've been in contact with Hope on this. Apparently the M780 shifters will work with the Tech XTR shifter mounts. I've ordered some so we'll see.

  10. #10
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    Any news about it ?

  11. #11
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    The new Hope/Shimano HBSP 263 works ok with the M970, M980 and M780-i (the new I-spec mount form shimano).

    - Model with no writing : suitable for XTR shifter M970
    (year 2006 to 2010)
    - Model with M970 and M980 writing : suitable for
    XTR shifter above and M980 shifters (year 2011 & 2012)
    - Model with M780-I writing : suitable for all XTR
    shifter types above and XT shifter M780-I (year 2012
    i spec)
    Last edited by Bati; 03-19-2012 at 12:37 PM.

  12. #12
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    Also, you can swap the covers of your standard M780 shifters for this:

    eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

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    So you are saying you have to get the Shimano XT SL78 I-spec tops, and then get
    the specific Hope mount (HBSP236) to be able to mount the M 780 shifters?

    I've just got the HBSP236 mount to see if it will work with the M780. Will take it to work tomorrow, remove the gear indicator and see how it fits.

    If it doesn't I might just take to it with the TIG welder and melt a big blob then powerfile it
    until the Hope mount doesfit. Might save a whole lot of messing around and extra expense.........grrrr

  14. #14
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    Ok I see now that you have copy and pasted the info from Hope's website;

    I can't link because I'm a loser low poster, but its in the shifter mount bit.

    Will see how it goes tomorrow, maybe I should email and confirm with Hope...

  15. #15
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    http://www.hopetech.com/webtop/modul...erchart(1).pdf

    I've just made the same mistake and brought the wrong mount for my shifters. I have the new 2012 xt shifters. Doh! thank god chain reaction have a good returns systems.

  16. #16
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    CRC confirmed that the xtr mounts will fit the new xt 2012 shifters.


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    Thanks!Good to know CRC are now stocking the correct ones. You must have got a different customer service person, one who actually knew something.

    reply to my email query:

    "We currently stock a wide range of brands and their products, and although we would like to stock every product, we unfortunately cannot. We may get this item in stock in the future.

    Why not try the manufacturers or a suppliers website where you might find some more information about this product.

    You can also browse our website where you will find many other alternatives that may suit your needs."

    Time to send my 2 incorrect matchmakers back

  18. #18
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    I went back to them with hopes item code and they said the xtr one will fit.


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    Yes, according to my email from Hope, as well as the product code HBSP263,
    they need to be inscribed with M780-I . Interested to see the difference from the one
    I already have.

  20. #20
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    Well, I've got the M78-I / M970/M980 version, and the shifter pods still rotate unless I apply an insane amount of torque to the mounting bolt. The machined out 'step' in the clamp is placed about 0.5 mm further from the bolt hole than on the Shimano OEM clamps.

    Has anybody had the same experience (or a fix ;-) )?

  21. #21
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    Yep tried fitting my replacements last night and with full torque the shifters tighten up and won't shift. Slacken the bolt off and it wobbles about. The trouble isn't that machined line but the fact the 2012 xt shifter is held in place by a bolt and a screw. With the screw preventing the shifter form twisting on the mount.


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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by eric View Post
    Well, I've got the M78-I / M970/M980 version, and the shifter pods still rotate unless I apply an insane amount of torque to the mounting bolt. The machined out 'step' in the clamp is placed about 0.5 mm further from the bolt hole than on the Shimano OEM clamps.

    Has anybody had the same experience (or a fix ;-) )?

    it seems we may need these

    Shimano XT Ispec Direct Attach Cover M780 | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by spankone View Post
    Yep tried fitting my replacements last night and with full torque the shifters tighten up and won't shift. Slacken the bolt off and it wobbles about. The trouble isn't that machined line but the fact the 2012 xt shifter is held in place by a bolt and a screw. With the screw preventing the shifter form twisting on the mount.


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    Quote Originally Posted by spankone View Post
    So I am having the same issue . . . shifter twists about while shifting. I bought the iSpec model as well and am still having the same issue. Its a VERY easy fix for Hope . . . all they have to do is tap ONE tiny little hole adjacent to the slot and BAM, problem solved. I'm going to call them tomorrow and see.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  24. #24
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    well I finale got the mount converter for my shifter, its a shimano part that turns the standard m780 shifter to the m780i shifter, I still found I had to remove the washer on top of the shifter. then after torquing down it worked perfectly.

  25. #25
    007
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    I bought the m780i's that came with the iSpec mounts already. I took them apart, removed the clamp and associated hardware, and reassembled per Hope's instructions. The Hope bracket is missing one essential hole (in my opinion, its essential as it keeps the shifter from pivoting on the mounting bolt.

    I've emailed Hope about it and the U.S. service tech is forwarding my pics on to Hope UK. It seems that when they designed the part, they went off of word-of-mouth from Shimano without an actual part in hand to compare to. If they add that hole, these will be a perfect addition.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  26. #26
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    can anyone post some pictures of what they had to do to make this work? for the new 2012 m780 shifters

  27. #27
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    I don't really have good photos to explain this, but the direct mount clamps that match the special edition Tech levers also don't work with the 2012 XT M780 Ispec shifters without modification. I've attached a picture of the Shimano shifter mount to try to explain.

    In the lower left side of the photo, you can see the slot that the bolt goes through, and you can also see that there's an indention around the edge of the slot. You can also see that there's a lip along the bottom edge of the mount. The threads in the shifter for the bolt are in what the shop guys says looks like a rivet. The main point is that this "rivet" (for lack of a better term) is raised about a 1/16" above the surface of the shifter and you can't remove it without also removing the threads.

    The Hope direct mounts do not have the indentation around the edge of the slot, but they do have the same lip along the edge. The raised sides of the "rivet" on the shifter prevent the lip on the mount from engaging the shifter which allows the shifter to rotate if you press it hard enough. The shops solution was to grind the Hope clamp down enough so that the shifters catch on the lip on the edge.

    I wish I had a picture of the clamps without the shifters on them, but I didn't think to get one...
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  28. #28
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    Hmm . . . I didn't have a problem with the lip at all. What is missing from the Hope bracket is that small little hole above the slot. That's for the small set-screw (or rivet as your LBS described it) that prevents rotation.

    That said, I torqued mine down and haven't had any problems with movement, however, I am a "push only" shifter . . . meaning I don't use my index finger to pull the levers, and thus the forces are always in the same direction.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7
    Hmm . . . I didn't have a problem with the lip at all. What is missing from the Hope bracket is that small little hole above the slot. That's for the small set-screw (or rivet as your LBS described it) that prevents rotation.

    That said, I torqued mine down and haven't had any problems with movement, however, I am a "push only" shifter . . . meaning I don't use my index finger to pull the levers, and thus the forces are always in the same direction.
    I took one of the clamps apart to get some photos of the shifter and the clamp where the LBS mechanic ground off some of the material.

    On the picture of the shifter, you can see the raised edge around the bolt hole -- this is what the LBS was referring to as a "rivet" (more in the sense of "it kinda looks like a rivet".) The Shimano mount sits flush against the area around the bolt hole and the lip on the mount sits on the groove on the right side of the mount and serves to prevent the shifter from rotating. I see what you're saying about the smaller set-screw hole, but I don't see how that could prevent the shifter from rotating. The set screw would contact the shifter on the flat area around the bolt hole, plus it seems it would be a nightmare to get it adjusted.

    The other two photos show the Hope clamp where the material was ground away in hopes of getting the lip on the clamp close enough to catch in the groove on the shifter. The Hope clamp really needs to be routed out around the bolt slot in the same manner as the Shimano mount is.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hope Tech lever + M780 shifters = no good-2012-08-09-00.18.58.png  

    Hope Tech lever + M780 shifters = no good-2012-08-09-00.19.30.png  

    Hope Tech lever + M780 shifters = no good-2012-08-09-00.19.56.png  


  30. #30
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    Oh. I just removed that "rivet" . . . it comes right out then it sits flush (pretty sure that's what the directions say too ). Still doesn't completely solve the twisting. The set screw doesn't need to be adjusted. It's a fixed screw that rides inside a track on the shifter body. I've emailed Hope about this and they acknowledge that the hole for that set screw needs to be there. I'd take mine apart but I'm too lazy.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  31. #31
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    It's more of a top hat washer and yeh it pulls out and the mount sits flush on the shifter.


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  32. #32
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    I see what you're talking about now. With the material that was ground off the clamp, that washer needs to be there to space the shifter out from the clamp. Without that washer, the brake level collides with the shifter and the bolt holes no longer line up. (Without modifying the shifter.)

  33. #33
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    I have this same 2012 XT SL-M780 Hope Evo brake incompatibility.

    Regarding the Hope tech information: http://www.hopetech.com/webtop/modul...ftermounts.pdf

    As stated in the matrix, the SL-M780 shifter is incompatible with the Hope Evo brake. Now I am sure there are work-arounds but this is probably the reason why there are fitting problems with this combination. Simply stated, Hope does not provide a Matchmaker that will suit the 2012 XT SL-M780.

  34. #34
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    Hello Ron, sorry but you cant use any matchmaker with the XT SL-M780 shifter as they dont have a removable clamp. They would only work with XT SL-780i version.

    Many thanks

    Rob


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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottenronny View Post
    I have this same 2012 XT SL-M780 Hope Evo brake incompatibility.

    Regarding the Hope tech information: http://www.hopetech.com/webtop/modul...ftermounts.pdf

    As stated in the matrix, the SL-M780 shifter is incompatible with the Hope Evo brake. Now I am sure there are work-arounds but this is probably the reason why there are fitting problems with this combination. Simply stated, Hope does not provide a Matchmaker that will suit the 2012 XT SL-M780.
    Out of curiosity, have you looked into the SM-SL78 kit from Shimano? That's the kit that converts SL-M780 shifters to I-spec mounts, although it looks like you'd lose the ability to have indicators.

    It's been mentioned on the first page of this thread, although not necessarily by that name.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buadyen View Post
    Out of curiosity, have you looked into the SM-SL78 kit from Shimano? That's the kit that converts SL-M780 shifters to I-spec mounts, although it looks like you'd lose the ability to have indicators.

    It's been mentioned on the first page of this thread, although not necessarily by that name.
    Thanks for the idea. Yes, I did see those. I guess it gets down to economics and hassle factor. Cost of conversion kit, cost of shipping, hassle of mounting, cost of Matchmaker, cost of shipping, hassle of mounting. I know I'm running on a bit but when I buy something to do a job, I don't expect to have to do all this expensive extra custom work. A lot of people use XT shifters and Hope brakes are good brakes so I am a little disappointed to find these two are for all intents and purposes mutually exclusive. Especially so as I happen to have them both already.

    Today I just took off the indicators and mounted the brake levers inside the shifter. And with some experiment with the correct rotation I think I have a compromise that is no cost and that I can live with.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buadyen View Post
    Out of curiosity, have you looked into the SM-SL78 kit from Shimano? That's the kit that converts SL-M780 shifters to I-spec mounts, although it looks like you'd lose the ability to have indicators.

    It's been mentioned on the first page of this thread, although not necessarily by that name.
    That's the kit I used to convert my shifters to I mount. May well be cheaper to buy the other shifters and sell the originals on eBay.


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  38. #38
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    I recently completed this conversion on my new XT gruppo & Hope Tech shifters

    It's a very neat solution. The shifters are almost hidden - It looks fantastic.
    Test ride tomorrow!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hope Tech lever + M780 shifters = no good-shimano-i-spec-hope-mount-02a.jpg  

    Hope Tech lever + M780 shifters = no good-shimano-i-spec-hope-mount-03a.jpg  

    Hope Tech lever + M780 shifters = no good-shimano-i-spec-hope-mount-04a.jpg  

    Hope Tech lever + M780 shifters = no good-shimano-i-spec-hope-mount-05a.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickHut View Post
    I recently completed this conversion on my new XT gruppo & Hope Tech shifters

    It's a very neat solution. The shifters are almost hidden - It looks fantastic.
    Test ride tomorrow!
    Hi Patrick,
    did you experience any shifter turning while shifting? Guys above were having this shifter turning problem. I'm thinking of buying this Shimano kit and merge the shifter with my hope brakes.
    Many thanks for the photos.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by miha555 View Post
    Hi Patrick,
    did you experience any shifter turning while shifting? Guys above were having this shifter turning problem. I'm thinking of buying this Shimano kit and merge the shifter with my hope brakes.
    Many thanks for the photos.
    I've come to learn that the shifters will not move at all so long as you use a thumb PUSH to change gears in either direction. So long as the force is always a push, they stay put. If I pull the shift lever, however, it will move about 1/8th an inch.

    Bottom line is it's not really an issue like I thought it would be. Yes, I would prefer that they fix it, but I'm guessing they won't because its really not a big deal. Unless, however, you're someone who shifts using both pushing and pulling.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

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    Thanks this helps a lot. Actually I do shift push, pull now because my shifter is installed so that I can't reach the release lever with my thumb, it's easier to release it with pointing finger. I will have no trouble adjusting to shift both ways with my thumb, if the shifter will be closer after combining it with the brake. My previous shifters was push for shifting up and down.

  42. #42
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    I should add too that I have the exact same setup as PatrickHut (Tech levers + Shimano XT iSpec).
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

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    Quote Originally Posted by miha555 View Post
    Hi Patrick,
    did you experience any shifter turning while shifting? Guys above were having this shifter turning problem. I'm thinking of buying this Shimano kit and merge the shifter with my hope brakes.
    Many thanks for the photos.
    With the Hope Tech shifter mount for Shimano XTR (HBSP 263) and Shimano XT i-spec shifters, I have had no problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickHut View Post
    With the Hope Tech shifter mount for Shimano XTR (HBSP 263) and Shimano XT i-spec shifters, I have had no problems.
    Thanks Patrick, I will upgrade my XT SL-M780 to SL-M780-I with the SM-SL78 kit.

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    New compatibility chart from Hope Tech received January 2013

    http://www.hopetech.com/webtop/modul...ts-Issue2a.pdf

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    Now the question is have they actually changed the part and added the hole?
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  47. #47
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    Well, I am going to found out if they did. I ordered the Hope Tech shifter mount for Shimano XTR (HBSP 263) and Shimano XT i-spec shifters cover for my 2012 XT SL-M780 shifters and Hope X2 brakes. Once they get here "over the pond" I'll report back.

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  48. #48
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    Cool. It works fine whether or not they did, but it would be nice if they did indeed update the part so that its correct.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

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    I am now using 2012 i-spec XT shifters with the Hope Evo brake lever with matchmakers. On Chain Reaction, you NEED to select the XTR matchmakers to fit the i-spec XT shifters. The XT matchmakers (at least the ones on CRC) won't fit .. I tried. After conversation with Hopetech, they informed me that the XTR matchmakers will fit but you need to make sure that they are stamped with a "#D". See photo. I am informed by CRC that all their XTR stock are stamped with this #D now. These matchmakers are modified to properly fit the 2012 XT ispec shifters. Some folks have found the non-modified matchmakers allow the shifter to pivot slightly while shifting. I am using the modified shifters with no issues.

    The instructions are not so great for the XT shifters but you can figure it out pretty easily. You need to remove the 4 screws (3 larger and one smaller) from the backside of the ispec shifter and open the case. Inside you will find a small screw which attaches the silver bracket to the case. You need to remove this screw to detach the bracket. This screw on my shifter was held in place with some permanent loctite and was quite difficult to remove. Make sure you have the right sized Philips screwdriver and you will need to apply a rather strong torque to remove.

    Once detached, you will see a small silver bushing (marked C in the instructions attached) that resides between the bracket and shifter case. Remove this. Now reassemble the shifter case with the 4 screws. The aforementioned loctited screw does not go back in. After assembly attach the new matchmaker. It only attaches one way and is obvious. You can't get it wrong.

    The shifter works nicely and I have no issues with movement.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hope Tech lever + M780 shifters = no good-2013-02-16-21.44.15.jpg  

    Hope Tech lever + M780 shifters = no good-2013-02-16-21.45.40.jpg  


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    I can confirm that the updated part (stamped with #D on the back as seen in the above photo) does in fact fit properly, allows for installation to spec (i.e., tightening the securing bolt to 2.5nm) and does not move at all. The difference between the current version and 1st version is the lip. In the photo above, you can see that Hope made the outer lip (on the right of the part above) as wide as the slot. In the previous version, it was only about 1mm wide and allowed for lateral movement.

    Well done, Hope. Thanks for the product update.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

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