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  1. #1
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    Hope Tech Evo: X2 vs M4

    sooo I need to replace my newly broken front brake, an Ashima PCB, with something that can actually reliably stop my bike.

    I was trying to decide between some Formula RX's, Shimano XT's and Hope Tech Evo X2/M4's... Anyone have any recommendations?

    I'm fairly set on the M4 for up front but I ride mostly Trail/Light-AM and weigh about 165.. would the X2's suffice? the delta is only ~$20 between the two...

  2. #2
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    Never tried the X2, I have M4's front and back (180/160mm) and they have no problem stopping me. I weigh about 230 without gear. From what I've read most people run the M4's up front and X2's in the back.

  3. #3
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    yep, that's what I've read too - guess I'll go with that. Appreciate the input!

  4. #4
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    I run M4 183 F and X2 160 back. Works well for me. Haven't had the luck of trying the new EVO brakes yet, but not sure I would want to run X2/X2 for trail/AM. M4 is fantastic.

  5. #5
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    Well 210 here and only run x2's front and back and races on another bike. No problems 1 finger braking.
    High Ho Sultan, Lets GO

  6. #6
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    Running Tech Evo X2 front and rear with 180 rotors all around. Plenty of power, great modulation for techy Trail riding/limited all mountain.

    About 200 lbs all up... no want for more power, and actually considering switching to a smaller rear rotor.

    Stock pads FYI...

  7. #7
    007
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29or6to4 View Post
    Well 210 here and only run x2's front and back and races on another bike. No problems 1 finger braking.
    Quote Originally Posted by suspect4119 View Post
    Running Tech Evo X2 front and rear with 180 rotors all around. Plenty of power, great modulation for techy Trail riding/limited all mountain.

    About 200 lbs all up... no want for more power, and actually considering switching to a smaller rear rotor.

    Stock pads FYI...
    Not my experiences at all, and kudos that you can feel comfortable with that set up.

    I'm ~200 w/gear and I ride pretty hard on the descent's and keep a pretty good clip. There is absolutely NO way I'd run an X2 up front for what I ride. It is simply underpowered with the stock organic pads (though I do have a set of Brake Authority Aggressives en route, so that might help). The M4 does well as a front brake.

    The X2 however, is a great rear brake. It scrub's speed very well without locking up the rear.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by drblauston View Post
    Yeah I get going pretty quick so I think I'm gonna go with a M4 up front and keep my Shimano 203mm rotor - will that give me any problems / do I need to get the floating rotor..? Trying not to spend more than I need to. Appreciate all the input guys, I suppose I could get by with X2's but it can't hurt right.
    No need for the floating rotors - just for the bling factor

    I have yet to hear of anyone complaining of having too much braking power on tap. Too little though.....

    M4 will be good - and again, the modulation......

  9. #9
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    Yeah I get going pretty quick so I think I'm gonna go with a M4 up front and keep my Shimano 203mm rotor - will that give me any problems / do I need to get the floating rotor..? Trying not to spend more than I need to. Appreciate all the input guys, I suppose I could get by with X2's but it can't hurt right.

  10. #10
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    You'll be fine with the X2 Evo's and as already mentioned standard discs. Use them on my mid travel mtb bike no problem (for 220lbs ready to ride).
    I would go for the techs mind you as the race are too XC and the race lever has less modulation (too on/off) .

  11. #11
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    One significant difference between the XTs and Hopes is lever travel. XT: short lever throw and quick ramp up in power, 1 finger only. Hopes: much more level travel, slower ramp up and the levers fit more than one finger.

    Which is better is down to personal preference.

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    I'm switching from tech M4's to the new Evo V2's. Don't really need to but I'm changing some other things so I said 'what the hell!' By the time I sell off my M4's and saved the cost servicing them I'm nearly at the cost for the V2's. Anyway, the V2's supposed to offer even more power, provide much better on pad wear and easier to service.

    Just an fyi: I could easily overhead the X2's on long alpine descents so I switched to the M4's (180/160) and have been very happy with them. They are more than enough for most riders and terrain.

  13. #13
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    I just finished throwing on a new M4 Evo up front and holy shiat it feels incredible. I tried a buddy's XT's and they were powerful but felt too on or off. I also tried some Hayes Prime Pros and they felt a little weak. Maybe I'm biased towards CNC'ed aluminum but damn these levers feel great. Now I just need to save for a X2 in the rear..

    Headed out to Moab for 11 days tomorrow, I'll let you all know how well they ride!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by drblauston View Post
    I just finished throwing on a new M4 Evo up front and holy shiat it feels incredible. I tried a buddy's XT's and they were powerful but felt too on or off. I also tried some Hayes Prime Pros and they felt a little weak. Maybe I'm biased towards CNC'ed aluminum but damn these levers feel great. Now I just need to save for a X2 in the rear..

    Headed out to Moab for 11 days tomorrow, I'll let you all know how well they ride!
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  15. #15
    007
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    Quote Originally Posted by ludwig1 View Post
    I'm switching from tech M4's to the new Evo V2's. Don't really need to but I'm changing some other things so I said 'what the hell!' By the time I sell off my M4's and saved the cost servicing them I'm nearly at the cost for the V2's. Anyway, the V2's supposed to offer even more power, provide much better on pad wear and easier to service.

    Just an fyi: I could easily overhead the X2's on long alpine descents so I switched to the M4's (180/160) and have been very happy with them. They are more than enough for most riders and terrain.
    Really interested in your experiences . . . I've contemplated going to the V2's as well for the sole fact that I really like 2 piston designs, which allow for much simpler set-up and maintenance.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  16. #16
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    M4 up front and x2 in rear is awesome 183/203 up front depending on type of riding you do an a x2 in either 183 or 160 in back, modulation is increble with 203fr &183/160r.
    trlridr

  17. #17
    007
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    Quote Originally Posted by trlrdr View Post
    M4 up front and x2 in rear is awesome 183/203 up front depending on type of riding you do an a x2 in either 183 or 160 in back,what bike and type of riding do you do ?
    I'm running an M4/183 in front and an X2/183 in the rear with SS lines and organic pads, though I just bought a set of Brake Authority's "Aggressive" sintered pads to try out for a little more bite on the initial pad contact.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  18. #18
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    I'm running M4 Evo's 203 up front and 183 rear feel great power is awesome can't fault them

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    Really interested in your experiences . . . I've contemplated going to the V2's as well for the sole fact that I really like 2 piston designs, which allow for much simpler set-up and maintenance.
    Haven't ridden any other hopes, but my new v2's are surpassing my expectations. I went with 203/185 rotors because I wanted the v2 rotors (they don't come in 160) and I was really afraid that they would be way too much brake on my AM bike. Surprise! The modulation is the best I've ever experienced and although they are wicked powerful they never feel on/off. We'll see how long term goes but so far they are easily the best brake I've ever tried.
    I went with the v2's over the m4's because I was sick of underpowered brakes, so I thought go big or go home...
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferday View Post
    Haven't ridden any other hopes, but my new v2's are surpassing my expectations. I went with 203/185 rotors because I wanted the v2 rotors (they don't come in 160) and I was really afraid that they would be way too much brake on my AM bike. Surprise! The modulation is the best I've ever experienced and although they are wicked powerful they never feel on/off. We'll see how long term goes but so far they are easily the best brake I've ever tried.
    I went with the v2's over the m4's because I was sick of underpowered brakes, so I thought go big or go home...
    I'm in the same boat. I'm happy with my M4/X2 combo for the time being but I really prefer a simpler 2-piston design . . . I just spent the better part of an afternoon trying to free up two sticky piston's on my M4 (opposite sides of each other), causing the pads to contact at an angle. This is not an issue with 2 POT brakes.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  21. #21
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    I had M4's for a while and liked the feeling, but the pistons always started coming out unevenly after a while.

    Got a pair of V2's about a year ago, and even for a light guy like me (70kg) they are great. They have very good modulation (not quite M4 but not far off either), work reliably and have a lot of power when needed. I spend most of my time on trails which are wet and slippery or frozen and even then I've never felt they would have too much power.

    I have 203/183 rotors, but also have a 160mm mono trial rotor which I'll be testing in the back (183/160) when I get around to it.

    Btw, the V2 caliper is actually lighter then the M4, but the rotors are a vit heavier.

  22. #22
    007
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    This thread is making me want to switch to V2's
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  23. #23
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    I'm currently running Juicy 5s and they are the only hydro disc brake I have ever used. The power is t great and I hate the noise. Narrowed my choice down to the new XTs or the Hope tech X2 Evos. I am not thrilled with some of the leaking issues I am reading about with the XTs. I also really like that you can basically replace almost every single part on the hopes. I'm rough on bike parts and like that fact that I can replace a lever or any other broken part if needed.

    I can get a smokin deal on the X2s with braided hoses. But this thread has me wondering if I should go with a V2 up front. I imagine that the X2s will be much more powerfull than my Juicy 5s

    FWIW these are going on my FS trail bike and I live in New England. Lots of short steep ups and downs but very few long DHs where brake fade is a real issue.

  24. #24
    007
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    I think a V2/X2 combo would be really unevenly matched and difficult to balance the power. I think an M4 would be a better selection for you. It really is a good brake, but from what I've learned, it takes just a touch more maintenance (e.g., regularly cleaning the piston's). Though this might be a unique thing to my climate where it is dusty, dry, and dusty. Did I mention that it gets really dusty out here? In a wetter climate, it may be a non-issue.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  25. #25
    NWS
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    One of my bikes has a 203mm V2 front and 180mm X2 rear. I love the power and modulation of the V2, but the X2 is only just barely powerful enough to lock up the rear wheel - if I'm leaning forward or braking hard with the front, I can lock up the rear. Otherwise, it won't lock. So for sheer braking power it's adequate but, again, only just barely. For skid-steering, it's not quite enough.

    It's not a big deal, but I'm going to put a 203 rotor on the back at some point to see if that gives a better balance. If I could do it over again I think I'd go M4 in the back.

    No way would I put an X2 on the front of any bike that ever goes down hills.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS View Post
    One of my bikes has a 203mm V2 front and 180mm X2 rear. I love the power and modulation of the V2, but the X2 is only just barely powerful enough to lock up the rear wheel - if I'm leaning forward or braking hard with the front, I can lock up the rear. Otherwise, it won't lock. So for sheer braking power it's adequate but, again, only just barely. For skid-steering, it's not quite enough.

    It's not a big deal, but I'm going to put a 203 rotor on the back at some point to see if that gives a better balance. If I could do it over again I think I'd go M4 in the back.

    No way would I put an X2 on the front of any bike that ever goes down hills.
    What frame are you running that can take a 203 in the rear? I don't think I can go any bigger than 180 on my Blur. Your experiences with the X2 are identical to mine. It takes a panic stop to lock up the rear, but it does scrub speed adequately. My next rig will likely have V2's front and rear.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  27. #27
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    I'm not so sure about the dirt being the cause. My friend who is more technically inclined then me had 4 M4 calipers and two of them had pistons that where sticky. He tested cleaning, lubing, changing seals and swapping them around, and it was always the same ones causing problems. His conclusion was that it's likely a tolerance issue on the pistons, and M4's having more pistons brings it out more clearly (easy to notice when the pads are on an angle rather then just to one side).

    And yeah, the V2 might be a bad pair with the X2 as the V2 has more bite. The M4 really starts out smoothly and has a lot of power when you start to squeeze. V2 can be pressed lightly to have modulation, but you press it more like a feather then with the others. It's possible that it would work if you have the same size rotors on both ends, but I'm happy with V2 on both ends.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    I think a V2/X2 combo would be really unevenly matched and difficult to balance the power. I think an M4 would be a better selection for you. It really is a good brake, but from what I've learned, it takes just a touch more maintenance (e.g., regularly cleaning the piston's). Though this might be a unique thing to my climate where it is dusty, dry, and dusty. Did I mention that it gets really dusty out here? In a wetter climate, it may be a non-issue.
    Do you think the X2s are more powerfull than my Juicy 5's?

    I am not looking for much more power than the J5's, but a little would be nice. More interested in better modulation and no more turkey wobble. Really not interested in going with the M4 as I prefer single piston brakes but I will keep it in mind.

    If the X2's are that under powered maybe i should just go with the XT's

  29. #29
    007
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    I have ZERO experience with Juicy 5's. But I can say that the new XTs are more powerful than Hope X2's.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  30. #30
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    My frame is post mount in the rear, will I need an adapter of some sort to run a 160mm rotor in the rear.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Mailloux View Post
    Do you think the X2s are more powerfull than my Juicy 5's?

    I am not looking for much more power than the J5's, but a little would be nice. More interested in better modulation and no more turkey wobble. Really not interested in going with the M4 as I prefer single piston brakes but I will keep it in mind.

    If the X2's are that under powered maybe i should just go with the XT's
    the new XT/XTR are a really hot setup, plenty of power and great feel. i don't have a lot of time on them (friends bike) but they feel pretty similar to my V2's, give or take. i'll give the straight power edge to the V2 but i do have larger rotors as well, so not entirely fair.

    one thing i'll say about my hope's is they are noticeably quieter on the trail, when everyone else's brakes start to squeal mine have remained pretty quiet.
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  32. #32
    007
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    Ferday, what pads are you running? I just switched from the stock organic's to Brake Authority's "Aggressive" sintered in hopes (no pun intended!) of getting a little more initial bite.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  33. #33
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    Using the stock hopes, they look like sintered to me but I haven't actually looked into it
    Are the stockers organic? Would explain the lack of noise...
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  34. #34
    007
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    Yup, pretty sure they come with organics (though sintered are available).
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS View Post
    So for sheer braking power it's adequate but, again, only just barely. For skid-steering, it's not quite enough.
    Either re-bleed or fit new pads, that ain't right.

    I have Tech X2s (old model) on two bikes, with 200mm rotors they can stand either bike on it's nose on demand. That little power suggests either cack on the pads or air in the system somewhere. I know a whole bunch of people/friends/customers with X2s of various ages and models, nobody has reported that low a level of power.

  36. #36
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    I ended up ordeing the XT's this afternoon. I really wanted to try the Hopes but I really couldnt justify the extra cost, and I was worried about compatibility with my X7 shifters. I found a smoking deal for the XTs online at Competitive Cyclist.com for $119 each.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    I have ZERO experience with Juicy 5's. But I can say that the new XTs are more powerful than Hope X2's.
    Bikeradar measurements (the top ones):

    Brake model Power (Nm) Weight (g)
    Hope Tech Evo X2 97 463
    ...
    Formula R1 107 355
    Shimano XTR Race M985 110 388
    Hope X2 Race Evo 110 377
    Shimano SLX M666 111 485
    Shimano XTR Trail M988 112 407
    Hope Race Evo M4 115 496
    Hope Tech Evo V2 120 524
    Formula The One 121 393
    Formula RO 124 418

    From this point of view new X2 Race EVOs look not that bad. Since the new EVO leverage increased breaking power by ca. 15%, the old Tech M4 were 100 Nm only or even less (deduction; for those, who run them and compare with other brakes).

    I use Formula R1 180/180, good power and weight, not that good lever feeling (rubber like, too short lever for gripshift), frequently disc rubbing, so I'm thinking to replace them with Hope X2 Race EVO. Any comparisons?

  38. #38
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    Personally I like the feel of the tech lever more than the race lever. It has a bit more progressive feel than the race lever.
    The evo line brakes are a bunch more porwerful. They say 15% but it really feels like more. I used the old race x2, now chamged to race x2 evo on my hybrid road bike and feel the brake power is more than 15%. That said I still prefer the tech x2 evo on my hardtail, but maybe I shouldn't compare because disc size is also different 183/160mm vs. 160/160mm

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    What frame are you running that can take a 203 in the rear? I don't think I can go any bigger than 180 on my Blur. Your experiences with the X2 are identical to mine. It takes a panic stop to lock up the rear, but it does scrub speed adequately. My next rig will likely have V2's front and rear.
    I switched my Hope X2 brakes from my XC to my new 6" travel trail-bike (Giant Reign1), first thing I realized right of the bat is that I could barely lock up the rear wheel and in the long downhills my finger thats squeezing the rear brake hurts like hell since I have to use sooo much force to control the rear brake. I couldn't believe it first thought the brakes are contaminated so cleaned the rotor with disc brake cleaner, re-bleed the brakes and changed the pads to a new one and nothing has changed. I got super confused since these are expansive brakes, I tried my friends Shimano Deore brakes (50$ brake) and it has noticibaly more power (2-3 times more) and can lock the rear wheel with almost no effort. I started to realize that these X2 brakes are useless for AM/ENDURO but I am super upset since new brakes cost so much money. Is there a way to increase the stopping power of my X2's? I am running Hope standard pads maybe sintered pads increase power?? Or maybe some other pad brand? I really cannot spend 250-300$ on a new XT or ZEE brake and I hate my Hopes right now, its physically making me tired trying to squeeze them hard all the time in all my downhill rides my hands are destroyed and I can barely lock the rear wheel which is a horrible feeling. Help me please if you have a solution to increase the stopping power even a bit...

  40. #40
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    I have no problems to lock the rear wheel with X2 Evo and 180mm disc, but X2 are LIGHT brakes (mainly for XC use), hence heat dissipation is not as good as larger brakes like M4/E4 ensure due to larger surface (that is general feature of all light brakes incl. Formula R1), so after long braking the stopping power may decrease, especially with organic pads. I think that is not a question of brake price but of user (in)correct choice. Definitelly go for Hope sintered pads, thay are much better under temperature load, but M4/E4 would be better for you I think.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalom View Post
    I run M4 183 F and X2 160 back. Works well for me. Haven't had the luck of trying the new EVO brakes yet, but not sure I would want to run X2/X2 for trail/AM. M4 is fantastic.

    Same here, I like the setup much better than the X2 up front. Lots more power, well worth the tiny weight and $$ penalty.

  42. #42
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    Me too, M4 EVO/180mm up front, X2 EVO/180mm rear. No problems so far, but I'm not hard enduro rider. I feel M4 to be more powerful than X2, hence used up front. Note please 180mm disc on the rear too.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by zegeli View Post
    I am running Hope standard pads maybe sintered pads increase power?? Or maybe some other pad brand?
    I run EBC reds front and rear on my Superfly and they stop me with confidence and I'm 240, then again is a cross country bike ridden on not super step trails (Salt lake city Utah, has plenty steep stuff), I will not used them on any of my "faster downhill" bikes do to the lack of capabilities, for them I have M4's that work great with standard Hope pads.

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