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  1. #1
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    Hope or Shimano disc brake set?

    Ok, as a disclaimer....of sorts...I don't like comparisons threads...
    But at this moment, and when I plan on spending big bucks, this is crucial.
    I need more than magazine references and salesmen info right now.

    I plan on selling my XTR m975's and getting new ones. I need more modulation, and power.

    Theres the new Shimano XTR Trails VS Hope Tech X2 (special Edition Black)

    I have used Shimanos XT's which I think they are similar in design, and liked them.

    I don't have experience with hopes, feel-wise, but I just love their looks. And heard very good things about them too!

    So, c'mon guys...differences, tips, advice...everything works! Thanks!
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  2. #2
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    Hope are a very good company, run by nice people. So it pains me to say XTR trail is better designed, the disks are also a cunning design.

    Have you considered Formula?
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  3. #3
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    i have had both hopes and shimano and currently still using the shimano brakes

    for the price, i think hopes are slightly underpowered but the quality is great.

    my shimano's (saint, SLX) are very powerful however, although they might not be as visually appealing or as light, i would still go for them over my old hopes.

    i can only imagine the XTR's to be even better than my SLX's
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  4. #4
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    There is only One

    The My One's by Formula are the best brake on the market.180F/160R and you are set for a long time. Modulation and power galore.
    Cheers,

  5. #5
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    Hey thanks for the replies!

    I've read very good things about "the ones"! But I have no information regarding price....

    The thing is, I can get a good deal on both the XTR trails or the Hopes. I'm gonna ask my LBS how would the formulas compare $$$ wise to the shimanos and hopes.

    If they are in the same price range I will definitely consider those!

    What version of the ones do you have? Aren't those for DH or FR?
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  6. #6
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    I have to disagee with the one's being even close to the best. Depends on your riding style. I run hope m6ti with ebc red pads, but the new XTR is a good brake if you're not downhilling. The x2 hope brakes are really nice with different pads. Hope's come with terrible pads for some reason. Always have. But the X2's and the xtr's are much better than the one's.

  7. #7
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    So along the lines of this discussion (Formula brakes excluded) . . . .

    I am looking to upgrade my current Avid Elixir 5's and I am seriously looking at either a Hope Tech M4 (front) + X2 (rear) combo or the new XTR's.

    I have heard that the Hope's are very "touchy" to get set up properly and take a lot of fiddling, but once dialed in are bombproof. Whereas the new XTRs are a "set-it-and-forget-it" set-up and easier out of the box. Any truth to this?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7
    So along the lines of this discussion (Formula brakes excluded) . . . .

    I am looking to upgrade my current Avid Elixir 5's and I am seriously looking at either a Hope Tech M4 (front) + X2 (rear) combo or the new XTR's.

    I have heard that the Hope's are very "touchy" to get set up properly and take a lot of fiddling, but once dialed in are bombproof. Whereas the new XTRs are a "set-it-and-forget-it" set-up and easier out of the box. Any truth to this?
    Yes on the XTR's, but I have never had issues setting up my hopes. But others may have, that I don't know, but hope has a video of how to do certain things for their brakes and how to's.

  9. #9
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    True...Hope does have set-up videos that are fool proof really. hopetech.com

    What I like about the new XTR trails is the short lever..and overall small perch. I brake with one finger, so it really felt comfortable.

    I'm looking at the hopes, and I'm kinda confused....which model is the best for aggressive (not downhill, looking for something not to heavy) riding...the Tech X2 or the V2???
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  10. #10
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    (edit)
    Scott Voltage FR!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7
    I have heard that the Hope's are very "touchy" to get set up properly and take a lot of fiddling, but once dialed in are bombproof.
    Not really. The current Tech lever has more adjustability than most other brakes, there's definately the scope to make a perfectly good brake feel terrible by turning one or more adjuster too far.

    Aside from that, set up and bleeding procedure is pretty much identical to Shimano brakes (except more care needs to be taken with Dot fluid than Mineral oil).

    One area Hope score massively better than any other Brake brand is spares availability. You can get just about any part for Hope brakes all the way back to the early Closed2. Long term it's a godsend and why my next brakes will be Hope.

    I have a set of (2006) XT-755 brakes that will soon be for the bin. Various parts of the lever and the pistons themselves are plain worn out. They still work now but short of buying entire lever/caliper assemblies Shimano no longer stocks any spares. For more current ranges Shimano are still pretty good though.

    My opinion of Formula is tainted by my experiences trying to get small parts (for customers),you get there in the end but it can be a real PITA.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhbomber
    I'm looking at the hopes, and I'm kinda confused....which model is the best for aggressive (not downhill, looking for something not to heavy) riding...the Tech X2 or the V2???
    Hope Tech M4 or if you want to save some weight then Hope Tech M4 front and Hope Tech X2 rear.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhbomber
    the Tech X2 or the V2???
    The X2 uses the same caliper as the XC race brake, but with the more adjustable and longer Tech lever. It's reasonably powerful.

    The V2 is the big DH brake, web photos don't show it well but the V2 caliper is much bigger than the X2.

  14. #14
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    Ok ok, so I'm getting the idea.

    What about the M4? I can read the website description, but it's waaaay better to hear it from you guys.

    I would like something light, but more powerful than my current m975's I'm running...Looking to use 160 rear and 180 front.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by arashi
    Hope Tech M4 or if you want to save some weight then Hope Tech M4 front and Hope Tech X2 rear.
    This and change out your hope pads for ebc red pads. It will be an awesome brake.

  16. #16
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    I put the new tech adjustable lever set up on my older 6ti and m4 and it works killer. Tons of adjustment.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhbomber
    Ok ok, so I'm getting the idea.

    What about the M4? I can read the website description, but it's waaaay better to hear it from you guys.

    I would like something light, but more powerful than my current m975's I'm running...Looking to use 160 rear and 180 front.
    You would be good on a good set of tech's or the new xtr's. Change out the xtr pads to something better though as well as change out the hopes. Either way both are great brakes. Someone said formula's as well, but no. Stay away from those.

  18. #18
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    The Hope brakes seem to be looking like a possibility!

    Any shimano XTR trail users???

    Comparisons?

    Anything works! We're talking big investment here!
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhbomber
    The Hope brakes seem to be looking like a possibility!

    Any shimano XTR trail users???

    Comparisons?

    Anything works! We're talking big investment here!
    I have a set of the new trails. I had them on my bike, but fadded them out on a long downhill ride. Having said that, the shop that I go to locally said that the stock pads will do that, and that to change them out for a better pad. I don't know who makes aftermarket pads for the new xtr yet. I have not done that as I put them on my wifes bike. I really like them, a true one finger brake and some cool features.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhbomber
    Anything works! We're talking big investment here!
    The horrible truth: They're both great.

    Seriously man, just roll a dice or something, you'll not be disappointed by either set.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fix the Spade
    The horrible truth: They're both great.

    Seriously man, just roll a dice or something, you'll not be disappointed by either set.
    well said!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mazspeed
    I have a set of the new trails. I had them on my bike, but fadded them out on a long downhill ride. . so . . I put them on my wifes bike.
    Husband of the year

    I just got back from the LBS and bottom line is, some new brakes are in my future. Since I have 6 bolt hubs and don't want to mess with adapters or new hubs, Hopes are the winners. I'll be opting for an M4 out front with an X2 out back. Not looking to save weight, but I just don't see the need for a 4-pot rear.

  23. #23
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    I've been doing a lot of research...not taking this lightly...

    I think the advantages of Hopes are that you can't beat the availability of spare parts and the compatibility of future lever designs of calipers with current ones. That for me is a deal maker!

    Like everything, I've read mixed reviews...some saying they do fade...some that they offer "on/off" feel and some others swear by them (like my friend the owner of my LBS).

    XTR trails are sooo rad, but I just don't see why those are gonna be more powerfull than a hope tech M4 with it's 4 pistons. And as an added bonus...they are cheaper!

    So probably Hope it is!

    Quick question....what about the difference between regular hose and stainless steel hose? I would assume that SS don't kink or warp or tear for that matter...but is it worth the upcharge? I've never had any trouble with regular hoses...
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  24. #24
    007
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    I'll be opting for the SS lines. I don't think its an issue of kinking/wraping/tearing but more of added rigidity. Hydraulic lines can and do expand under pressure. Even a half mm of uniform expansion over the length of the entire hose can add up and give you that spongy feeling (what I don't like about my current Avid's). SS lines try to alleviate that by creating a more rigid hose.

    Or so I think . . .

  25. #25
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    from what i understand SS hoses offer less expansion.

    I picked up the Hope Tech M4's with regular hoses a couple weeks ago and they are amazing, awesome stopping power (I am 250 geared up), easily can do one finger braking with these. haven't hit the trails yet but I can't wait.

  26. #26
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    Get EBC green or red pads right now. You can get them on ebay. It will transform your hope to a super brake.

  27. #27
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    Whatever color? Red or Green? As long as their EBC? I saw them at BTI so my LBS can get them for me
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  28. #28
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    I like the red pads, but the green will last a little longer, but if you do the red pads, you will stop on a dime with 9 cents change.
    Plus no noise out of the red's.

  29. #29
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    The new XTR trails are great brakes. I recently put them on a bike and can't say enough good things about them so far. My first impression is they're better than any other brake I've had. I've ridden formulas, avids, and older shimanos. I've never been into one finger braking, but the new XTRs have likely converted me. I can get two fingers on the short blade fairly easily, but it's not necessary. They have a ton of power and modulation. I'd say the modulation is on par with formulas, but you don't have to deal with the super tight pad clearance issue. In terms of feel they knocked it out of the park IMO, avids don't even get close. Now I'm worried that all my other brakes are going to feel like cr@p!.. might cause some upgrade-itis if I don't watch it.

    I've never ridden hopes, but have heard mixed reviews. Some people seem to love them, others seem to hate them.

  30. #30
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    Good to know that the XTR's are a nice option too!

    I think it all comes down to price right now. If the hopes and xtr's are equal in quality, power (give or take), etc. but I could save some bucks, I'm going with the saving-my-bucks option.

    Plus...I like CNC'd stuff!
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  31. #31
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    There are mixed reviews to be found for every brake out there, a lot of times I suspect user error (improperly setup, not bled correctly). When it comes down to reliable performance the Hopes are unbeatable IMHO, install, setup properly (please take the 2 extra minutes per brake to do it properly), and forget (well check you pads every now and then ). Actually the setup procedure of Hope I think is the best out there (also applicable to other brands). It takes a bit longer (but you don't do this too often once done properly), but assures proper alignment of caliper and disc. The usual pull the brakes and fasten caliper methods aligns pads and disc, which is inaccurate and depends on current piston and pad condition.

    Also be aware that the new high-tech XTR discs have been shown to be able to melt down on a long challenging descent (German bike magazin test), which might be concern to you or not.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascades
    Also be aware that the new high-tech XTR discs have been shown to be able to melt down on a long challenging descent (German bike magazin test), which might be concern to you or not.
    You don't have to use the new XTR rotors, in fact they don't make a 6 bolt rotor (yet). I have 6 bolt hubs, so no XTR rotors. Formula R1 rotors are working just fine. I still wouldn't have any fear running the XTR rotors as that test wasn't exactly a real world scenario (dragging front brake only).

    I'm sure they're both great brakes, options are a good thing.

  33. #33
    007
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    The more I read, the more I'm sold on the Hope's. I'm sure the Shimano's are really great brakes, but considering that they are essentially the same price point, I'm going to give the Hope's a shot first . . . if I don't like 'em, the resale value will be well preserved on something like those.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascades
    There are mixed reviews to be found for every brake out there, a lot of times I suspect user error (improperly setup, not bled correctly). When it comes down to reliable performance the Hopes are unbeatable IMHO, install, setup properly (please take the 2 extra minutes per brake to do it properly), and forget (well check you pads every now and then ). Actually the setup procedure of Hope I think is the best out there (also applicable to other brands). It takes a bit longer (but you don't do this too often once done properly), but assures proper alignment of caliper and disc. The usual pull the brakes and fasten caliper methods aligns pads and disc, which is inaccurate and depends on current piston and pad condition.

    Also be aware that the new high-tech XTR discs have been shown to be able to melt down on a long challenging descent (German bike magazin test), which might be concern to you or not.
    Do you have a link to this. I was thinking of adding the ice discs to my hope set up once they had a 6 bolt and 203 setup. I have never heard of a disc melting down.

  35. #35
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    http://www.bike-magazin.de/?p=3738

    You can buy the whole article there, but there is one picture of the molten disc (well the aluminum inner) on the page. Note however that, as tiflow_21 already stated, this was a pretty extreme test. They braked only with the front brake, used a very demanding descent, and simulated bad braking technique. Nevertheless it wasn't in a lab only condition. Under normal condition I don't think this would be a problem, but I for one don't like to take chances with my brakes for a few grams. Then again I will need to rely on them to deal with situations not too much different as the test conditions, where letting go of the brakes to let them cool is sometimes just no option. If I wouldn't go down to the Alps every summer I could care less, so your side of the story might look different.

  36. #36
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    I Would Not Like That To Happen On My Bike!


    That is CRAZY!!!!

    I personally don't think that'll happen to 99% of riders, but f$%ck the possibility!

    I'm waiting for my LBS to respond some $$ questions about the hopes...and if I can get the limited edition black with green set! Sweet!
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  37. #37
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    I'm more partial to the Hopes myself... I've got an older set of M4's.

    My personal experience (and I'm a clyde) is that Hopes can take a bit to get set up and the stock pads aren't great. Once set up and with a good set of pads in them, they are great brakes and pretty much bulletproof. On the snow and ice in the winter, I've got plenty of modulation. In the summer, one finger braking can pull my hefty but to a stop in a dang hurry. Servicing is pretty straight forward too.

    I have a friend here who runs "The One" brakes. He switched from Hopes to them after not being impressed by the power of the Hopes. I don't know what his set-up was on his Hopes, but he just about endo'd on my bike when we swapped because mine were making a lot more power than he had anticipated.

    Shimanos have been a little bit hit and miss in the past. I've known some that have been freaking awesome and others that, well, sucked. I've heard good things about the new ones, but I haven't been able to try them myself.

    I'd personally say Hope, but YMMV.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhbomber
    I Would Not Like That To Happen On My Bike!


    That is CRAZY!!!!

    I personally don't think that'll happen to 99% of riders, but f$%ck the possibility!
    Use different rotors, it's as simple as that. The primary benefits of the XTR brakes have to do with the lever and caliper, the rotor is just one piece of the puzzle that is easily swapped. R1 rotors are lighter and you can sleep tight knowing they'll be just fine.

  39. #39
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    I have Hope Techs on both my bikes. Switched from Formula The Ones. I went with Hopes for their durability, appearance, and the availability of spares. A few months ago, 1 piston on M4s began to leak. A quick call to Hope today and 5 minutes later they confirmed they were sending me a complete seal kit, as well as the bore cap tool.

    Love my Hopes, the CS was great. I have always wanted to try out some Shimanos, however the lack of spare parts turns me off.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    However the lack of spare parts turns me off.
    There are spare parts available for shimano...but HOPE takes it to another level!
    And customizable too! I do like Shimano's, but the thing that makes it for me is that they don't change very often, and if they do change, you can use the new product with the old...AFAIK
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  41. #41
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    Just installed some XTR Trails and I have to say they are hands down the best brakes I've ever had. Very powerful (f180, r160), great modulation, and silent.
    I've used my share of brakes, M4s, XTs, and Marta SLs and to be honest disc brakes at this price range are mostly great, it really depends on your preference and set up skills.

    For me, setting up the M4s was not easy and even after a proper set up, it still had quite a lot of noise, and it howled like crazy when wet. IMO the Trails won in the power and modulation category.
    Last edited by oakley198877; 04-02-2011 at 02:30 PM.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascades
    Wow, it was hard to see what the picture was and that the article not being in English didn't help, but I don't want my rotors melting down. Thanks for the link.

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