Come on, dare me!
Hope new mini vs Juicy Ultimate vs Formula Oro Puro
I'm in the process of buying new disc brakes for my faithful fullsusser (Magura Marta for now) and I've narrowed down my choice to these three brakes (I'm looking for light) :
1) Avid Juicy Ultimate
2) Hope new mini (with the alu levers -- carbon levers won't be available here, in Canada, before 08)
3) Formula Oro Puro
All will have 160 mm discs.
My question : what are the pros and cons of each of these three systems IYO and why ? (Please share your experience; I don't want hear about things read in magazines or over the Net, but from people who really have used/use these brakes).
Hope new mini vs Juicy Ultimate vs Formula Oro Puro
I've had Hope Mono Mini's, Avid Juicy 7's and Formula Oro K24's.Forget about comparing the Hope's to the other two brakes as the Avid's and the Formula's are much more pwerfull.IMO i would say that the Formula's are the best of the three i had a few problems with my Avid's they were fine in the dry but once they got wet nightmare screeming and pulsing terrible tried various things to cure them but all to no avail,but like i said in the dry they were great,but i'd still say the Formula's had more power and a nicer feel to them and i'm pretty certain that they are lighter to.
Hopes are top notch and have the best build quality and modulation of any brake that I've tried.
Please note that Avid Ultimates are not equal to Juicy 7's. Ultimates compete with Hope Mini's and Juicy 7's/Carbons complete with Mono M4's. Hopes are lighter, modulate better, and have higher build quality in both instances. They are also more expensive.
Mini's and Oro Puros are up to the task of All-Mountain use, Ultimates are XC only.
Now, nothing against Avid here, I love my Juicy Carbons, great brakes. But back to back with my M4's, no question the M4's are superior.
I don't have much time on the Oro Puros but I like what I've seen. Forumla's are basically upgraded Avids and the Oro Puros have a real nice feel to them, although some don't like the lever feel and describe it as "dead" as the return is not as positive as many other brakes.
Curiously missing from your list are Magura Martas which are extremely light, 2nd only tho Hope Mini Pros, more powerful than Mini's, excellent modulation, but with not quite the long lasting build quality of the Hopes. In short if you thirst for more stopping power than the Hopes, Magura is your next logical stop in the ultra-light catagory.
Brakes are an oft debated and very personal matter. Most people find that they like whatever they adapt to but I do have the luxury of riding back to back Juicy Carbons, Hope Mini's, Hope M4's, Martas, and even BB7's on a constant basis. The bar is definitely higher with properly setup Hopes.
Come on, dare me!
Thanks for your help but, as it may not be obvious in my post, I own Magura Martas and I plan on installing them on my "mullet"/winter bike (Cannondale Caffeine). I love the Martas for their power and lightness but after 4 years and many bleedings + inconsistent lever reach that Martas are famous for, I want to get something else.
Originally Posted by Err
As a precision, I ride mainly XC with drops and jumps and the trails here are pretty technical (roots, rocks, etc.) and we often have mud/wet soil, although it can dry very fast in the summer... So, if the Avid squeal in wet weather, that's no good for me.
Last but not least in my equation, the price (in CAN $, taxes incl.) :
Avid Juicy Ultimate = $575.00
Hope new mini = $ 715.00
Formula Oro Puro = $ 820.00
-> SickLines.com <-
The Oro is on a differnt level than the Ultimate / Mono in my experience. The Mini is a great XC brake. If you're looking for more power, the m4 from hope is a better option, or m4 front/mono rear. Hope has a more rough look in my experiences and the lever return is no worse on Hope's than on Formulas.
Formula's might have some issues with X.7 and pre 06 X.9 shifter and some shimano shifters. They're got some amazing power (comparable to m4) and have some great modulation. I like the thinner Bianco lever that you can buy aftermarket. If you're looking to save some cash, you can get K18's and upgrade them with the FCS adjuster for less money. If your're looking for some stronger braking, you might consider a 180mm front and 160mm rear.
The Avid's are historically more likely to be squealy, and the Mono's i've had were loud at times when wet as well.
If you're looking for a set of trouble free brakes that are probably cheaper than all your other options and have been pretty fail free for everyon i know, get Shimano XT's, or Shimano Saint calipers. You can get LX levers right now from jenson for $64, saint calipers for $65 each. You'll have to buy proper adapters (~$20), and rotors (~$60). Very hard to beat in my book. for $300USD easily you'd have a kick ass set of brakes that will last day in and out if you're looking to save some money. They're just as good if not better in my book than M4/Oro's and definitely Juicy7/Ultimates.
I have to agree basically on the Shimano XT's
I currently have Avid's on my 5 Spot and someting is wrong with them.
Originally Posted by mtb_biker
I remember my RM Slayer it came with XT brakes and I recall them being the best modulating disc brakes I've ever run. I do remember the pads wearing out a lot or geting contaminated a lot. Not sure what was up with that. Does anybody know if u can run different pads on shimans brakes?
One time in Sun Valley I took the bike in for something to Sturtos and was totally blown away that they said i needed new pads - so the padwear was somewhat ridiculous short interval. I had just ridden them through a lot of stream crossings, etc in Stanley, but still...
I might go for another set of shimanos as they did absolutely NOTHING wrong, except for the pad wear thing
I disagree. I own Mono Minis, Juicys 7s, Formula Oro Bianco & Oro K24.
Originally Posted by Err
The Minis do not have the power or fade resistance of the others. I agree that, within the Hope lineup, the M4 is a better comparison.
Only differences between the Ultimates & Juicys are Ti fasteners,carbon lever & a slimmer caliper. Mechanically they are identical. Power & fade resistance between the various Avid & Formula models do not change for a given rotor & pad compound. The same cannot be said for Hope or Magura. Use larger rotors with Ultimates and they do fine for AM use. On the other hand, I've overheated my Mono Minis with 7" front rotors on long technical descents several times. That's never happened with my other brakes. As an XC only brake the Mono Mini is superb, but is not suitable for extended downhills.
To the original poster....all of your choices are excellent. I'd sway you away from Mono Minis if you are doing long descents for the above reasons. If doing more gradual XC rides then they'll be fine. Both the Juicy Ultimate and Formulas offer more versatility than the Mono Minis. Only downside to the Formulas is price. I find Formula lever feel, power & modulation to be superb.
Here are some things for you to think about:
1. What is your intended use?
2. Is your goal ultimate weight reduction or are willing to add a minor bit of weight? (for example, the difference between Juicy 7s and Ultimates is about 40gms - it ain't much weight reduction for the price jump)
3. How much you want to spend? Formulas are the most expensive, then come Hopes and Avids are least expensive
As another poster pointed out, Magura martas are another set of good light brakes. But I don't particularly care for magura's lever ergonomics and they are more dedicated XC like Mono Minis.
Last edited by The Squeaky Wheel; 06-29-2007 at 08:01 AM.
Life....the original terminal illness
Formula all the way
I have owned numerous Hope brakes (4 sets), as well as an older Magura brake and the very first Formula brake and none of them totally satisfied my needs. Note that I like very strong brakes who feel pretty direct.
Only recently did I find a brake that satisfies my neeeds and untill now has been more reliable than any of my other braking systems... a set of Formula oro puro's.
My recommendation would therefroe be to go with a set of oro's as apparently everyone who owns them is very happy with them and as the service (also on these boards) of Formula seams top notch, certainly in the US.
If money is an issue, or if a few more grams don't bother you, my recommendation would be to pick up the K24's over the puro's as except for some carbon/titanium parts, they are exactly the same (I myself am addicted to blingbling-stuff unfortunately ). If the budget is even tighter, the K18's are again the exact same thing but without being able to adjust the lever throw before the lever engages.
Good luck finding your braking nirvana!
Come on, dare me!
Thanks all for your help,
As a note, I currently own Magura Martas (the older ones, not the SLs) and as said, I plan on putting them on my second bike, because I'm a bit fed up with the regular bleedings they need (at least two times a year) and inconsistent reach they show. So, I don't plan on getting Martas for sure, although I have to admit that the gold SLs would look good on my FS bike.
That said, I'm not bind by the budget, although I don't necessarily want to buy the most expensive brakes if not needed, but I'm a (bit of) a gram-counter, so, yes, weight matters.
After reading your posts, a few things come clearly out :
1) I won't get the Ultimate, since they seem to squeal in the wet, which is not good for Quebec, where we often have wet weather. Plus, I own Juicy 5 and I don't like much the feeling of the brakes, nor the way the levers are designed (love the Martas for the ergonomics).
2) I'm leaning towards the Oro Puro for their weight, power and lightness (plus, they would be pretty rare, here). The only problem is that in Canada, replacement parts and warranty seems to take an awful lot of time (we're talking about 4-6 weeks at first glance) -- for us in Quebec, at least.
3) The Hope seem to be the best compromise, although I know they're not as powerful as Martas or Oros... The only bug I have is with the floating discs having a tendency to warp. Anybody can tell me if it's a tell-tale or if it's common?
HOPE Mono Minis
I have used a LOT of different disc brakes over the years and here's my take on your question. First of all, I LOVE HOPE brakes and I run HOPE Mono Minis, M4's and V2's on my bikes. I only use their 2-piece floating rotors (never had a warping problem) and I have never had any problems with any of my HOPE's. They take some fiddling and some adjustment time when installing them but in the long run it is worth it. I like Magura brakes also but IMO they are not as consistent or reliable or built nearly as well as the HOPE's. It may have something to do with using oil instead of brake fluid but I have always preferred HOPE to Magura. And in terms of build quality and fit and finishing HOPE wins hands down. I have had too many instances in the past with Magura brakes arriving with a paint chip or a scratched up caliper or missing rotor bolts or missing washers. That never has happened to me with HOPE.
One thing I do like about Magura is their brake pads and pistons are magnetic meaning it is very easy to replace the pads. And the magnetic pull holds the pads firmly to the pistons so the pad retraction is very good. I just serviced a pair of Louise BAT brakes this week and they had the magnetic pads / pistons, I can't remember if Martas do also.
Formula brakes are exceptionally made and work very, very well. They are very powerful but pricey and my only issue with Formula brakes is the way they look. I know it's only being picky but I think HOPE brakes look the best (feel the best too), then Magura brakes look just OK, and lastly I think Formula brakes just look ugly. Again, this is only my personal opinion and not important at all in terms of actual braking performance or durability.
I have had plenty of experience with both HOPE and Magura warranty and both are very easy to work with and very customer friendly. I have never had to warranty any Formula brake so I cannot speak for their warranty service.
Hope this helps and I'm sending you a private message shortly.
Another word on Hope Mini's -
Type of rotor: 1 piece vs floating
Size of rotor
Condition of brake fluid
Weight of wheels/tires
Weight of rider
Skill or rider
All play in to weather or not they are powerful enough for you. This is true with any braking system but since Mini's are a bit closer to the edge of acceptable power it's even more critical to get your setup right. There is no question that Hope Mini's are high on modulation and low on ultimate power compared to some other brakes on the market.
I did have issues doing resort days with heavy tires and 6" rotors but never had any issues on trail rides.