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  1. #1
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    Hope Mono Mini pads not making full contact on edge of rotor

    I just got a set of Hope Mono Mini w/160mm 2 piece rotor for the rear of my 575. I just went on my first ride with them and now have noticed that the pads are not making contact on the last few mm of the outside of the rotor. We are talking a good 4-5mm here. I have Mono M4's on the front and on another bike and they don't have this problem at all. What is going on here? Is this just a characteristic of the Mini's? It seems to me like the rotor just isn't a big enough diameter. I also notice the rotor moves up and down a few mm.....not side to side but up and down. Being the 1st ride I can't say for sure how much this is affecting the braking performance since they aren't full bedded in yet, however I can't imagine this is going to be a good thing. Here are a couple of pics. What should I do, contact Hope about it? I bought them from Jenson.
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  2. #2
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    I know a 575 dropout when I see one!

    I was going to say check your IS tab, maybe you have a weird old bike. Not the case here tho.

    I have a 575 with minis also, not having the same issue. I'd just guess a chunk got taken out of your pad(s) at some point?

  3. #3
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    No the pads are fine, the rotor is just simply not coming all the way out to the edge of the pads. Not sure if it is something with these new 2 piece rotors or what I can't see how it could be the machining on the caliper itself, and it is doubtful that it is the tabs on the frame. I think I'll send Hope these pics and see what they say. I bought the Mono Mini w/ the 2 piece rotor as a set, so I don't have a regular 160mm rotor to compare it to.

  4. #4
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    Well, that's kinda what I'm saying. I have a 575, with Mono Minis, and two-piece rotors. My caliper and rotor are in the same places as yours. And I don't have the problem.

    Unless your calipers were machined wrong (I doubt, since they're made by a computer), I'd look at other things like pads, tab facing, etc.

    Not trying to be hardass, just saying I'm not sure how it could be an issue between 575 tabs and Mono Minis in general :-)

  5. #5
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    Well I looked a little closer and it seems like the rotor shouldn't be the problem because it only has a couple of mm of clearance from the caliper. If the rotor was any bigger in diameter it would hit the caliper. I'm wondering if the pads are the problem, maybe they had a batch that was made to incorrect specs.....could be the "arm" is too long and they drop down too far. I sent an e-mail to Hope so we'll see what they say

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by FXRob
    Well I looked a little closer and it seems like the rotor shouldn't be the problem because it only has a couple of mm of clearance from the caliper. If the rotor was any bigger in diameter it would hit the caliper. I'm wondering if the pads are the problem, maybe they had a batch that was made to incorrect specs.....could be the "arm" is too long and they drop down too far. I sent an e-mail to Hope so we'll see what they say
    If anything the rotor is oversized in relation to the caliper, not undersized if there is unused material at the edge, but I doubt this is the cause, put a tape to the rotor to check.
    Are the pads properly set in the caliper? Also, the mounting holes in my 2 piece rotors are larger than the bolt diameter so there is lateral play unless you take care to mount and tighten the bolts with the rotor centered on the hub, i.e. the rotor will 'run out' or 'hop' if the centers aren't aligned, spin it to check. This shouldn't have caused your issue though since an uncentered rotor would show as a oversized pad sweep area on your rotor.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by consolidated
    If anything the rotor is oversized in relation to the caliper, not undersized if there is unused material at the edge, but I doubt this is the cause, put a tape to the rotor to check.
    Are the pads properly set in the caliper? Also, the mounting holes in my 2 piece rotors are larger than the bolt diameter so there is lateral play unless you take care to mount and tighten the bolts with the rotor centered on the hub, i.e. the rotor will 'run out' or 'hop' if the centers aren't aligned, spin it to check. This shouldn't have caused your issue though since an uncentered rotor would show as a oversized pad sweep area on your rotor.
    Rotor measures 6 1/4", same as my 160 Hayes rotor. Pads are held in with the rod the goes through the "arm" on the pads so they can only be set in one way. I'm thinking either the caliper is machined wrong or the pads are out of spec. I guess they have different caliper #'s.....but I'm still waiting to hear from Hope, no response to my e-mail today.

    I'll try center in the rotor to eliminate the up and down movement, thanks for the tip. I did notice that the mini rotor doesn't have the countersunk holes in the rotor like the Mono M4's do.

  8. #8
    No, that's not phonetic
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    I agree that the amount of unscraped rotor is a little bit odd, but you don't want the pad extending all the way to the rotor's edge anyway. All brakes should leave a little bit of unscraped rotor on the outer edge (somewhere in the circumfrence anyway for a wavy rotor). The reason is that you want the whole PAD scraped, which would not happen if pad extended to the rotor's edge and beyond. Normally the pad will almost reach the rotor edge. Yours just has a little extra perhaps, as you indicated, because the friction material on the pad is set a little low. It is not a problem as long as nothing rubs.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I agree that the amount of unscraped rotor is a little bit odd, but you don't want the pad extending all the way to the rotor's edge anyway. All brakes should leave a little bit of unscraped rotor on the outer edge (somewhere in the circumfrence anyway for a wavy rotor). The reason is that you want the whole PAD scraped, which would not happen if pad extended to the rotor's edge and beyond. Normally the pad will almost reach the rotor edge. Yours just has a little extra perhaps, as you indicated, because the friction material on the pad is set a little low. It is not a problem as long as nothing rubs.
    I see what you are saying, but all of my other Hope brake pads touch to the edge of the rotor. It just seems as though I'd be loosing braking performance since there is actually so little of the pad making contact with the rotor. With most of the brake pad being off the inner edge of the rotor and only making contact when the arms of the rotor sweep by it would seem as if I'd be loosing power because of this.

  10. #10
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    Is the swept area the same for both sides of the rotor? Slim chance but maybe the friction material is not where it should be on the backing of the pad, do these pads (or pad) look just like the other set?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by consolidated
    Is the swept area the same for both sides of the rotor? Slim chance but maybe the friction material is not where it should be on the backing of the pad, do these pads (or pad) look just like the other set?
    Yes it is the same on both sides of the rotor. This is the only set of Mono Mini's I have, all the rest are Mono M4's so I have no other pads to compare them to. I'm thinking it has to be either the pads (might try and get a set of Kool Stops to try), or the caliper itself.

  12. #12
    No, that's not phonetic
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    You would not lose power, the pressure of the pad on the rotor is just concentrated over a smaller area. Stand on a scale with both feet. Now lift one foot. Did you lose weight?

    It is not exactly optimal since the pad could wear a little weird or cant in over the rotor's lip perhaps, but my Maguras do something similar (the pad scrapes a ways down the rotor spoke due to the shape of the waves) and they work great. If you get any noise just file a slight bevel into the rotor track's edge.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  13. #13
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    E-mail response from Hope:

    This is what someone from Hope e-mailed me about this:

    If everything is mounted correctly and the disc is 160mm then it
    appears
    the disc mounts may be in a slightly different place. The only thing we
    can do is make a disc that is slightly smaller. However I have a
    feeling
    that your disc might be 185mm and sent to you by accident.

    Warranty and Service


    Gee, how the hell would a 185 disc even come close to fitting That really helped out a lot

  14. #14
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    Another thing

    You can see in the photo is that the pads are making contact with arms off the rotor I am surprised that this is not causing some pulsing in the lever. That hapens when deore owners try to use xt rotors.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FXRob
    This is what someone from Hope e-mailed me about this:

    However I have a feeling that your disc might be 185mm and sent to you by accident.

    Warranty and Service
    Rob, that response from Hope makes no sense. The possibility doesn't even exist, you wouldn't be able to fit your axle into your dropout if you had that combo.

    I'm kind of bewildered about this enough to check mine out to see if I could help. I don't have the Minis, but I am running a 160 in the rear with Mono M4s. I guess you've already checked to see that the print near the rotor mounting bolts say Mini. Even though you'd think a 160 would fit a 160, mine are clearly labeled Mono M4, so there's probably a difference. My 160s don't have bolt recesses either. Maybe Jensen mixed them up and you have the wrong one.

    I checked from above my caliper to see how my rotor is positioned relative to the brake pads, and my pad's material sits slightly taller than the rotor. This should be your first indication as to whether or not you'll eventually make contact with all your rotor. If you look at the tracks on my rotor, it appears that I'm not getting full contact either, 4 to 5 mm like yours, but the position in the caliper proves I'll get there once the pads wear down some. The top edge of the pad material gets beat up a bit in packaging. Yours may be rough enough to not make contact yet, like mine. I snapped a photo of a brand new set of pads right out of the box, and you can see how rough the top edges are.

    Note how there's only about a millimeter and a half of backing material exposed above the pad material. If you have more than this, maybe you have defective pads.

    If these symptoms aren't your case, then the only assumption you can make is you have an improper caliper location. Now whether that points to the wrong mounting tabs on your frame or your caliper, I don't know. Keep us posted, this one has me scratching my head too.

    You can also see mine wear into the rotor arms to a slight degree also, and I don't feel any pulsing. It's a non-issue.

    Rando
    Deceleration Trauma is my middle name

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndoRando
    Rob, that response from Hope makes no sense. The possibility doesn't even exist, you wouldn't be able to fit your axle into your dropout if you had that combo.
    Exactly, I'm pretty frustrated with Hope's lack of response. I e-mailed Hope USA and got no response whatsoever, and Hope UK and got the above response which is total B.S.

    I wasn't aware that they made the Mono M4 in a 160mm version, but anyway yes my rotor clearly says Mini on it. At this point I'm probably going to try a different set of pads to see if they will sit in a different position (hopefully higher up in the caliper). Like I said before all of my other Hope brakes make full contact all the way to the rotor edge (maybe 1 mm not touching), but when you look through the caliper on my Mini the rotor clearly sits significantly higher than the pad material. I took the pads out and I don't see the rough edges "wearing in" would help at all. It simply is the fact that the pads sit too low in the caliper and/or the rotor is slightly too large.

    The comment in the e-mail response about making me a smaller diameter rotor seems pretty odd. The basically admit they see it as not being normal, but making a custom smaller diameter rotor just doesn't seem like the correct answer.

    As far as the brake tabs on the Yeti 575 frame being off, that is a possibility I suppose. However I had Avid mechanicals on it for a week before I bought the Hopes and it was aligned properly with those brakes.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by FXRob
    I wasn't aware that they made the Mono M4 in a 160mm version.

    As far as the brake tabs on the Yeti 575 frame being off, that is a possibility I suppose. However I had Avid mechanicals on it for a week before I bought the Hopes and it was aligned properly with those brakes.

    They basically admit they see it as not being normal, but making a custom smaller diameter rotor just doesn't seem like the correct answer.
    Rob, the 160 version with the Mono M4s are made but only available for the rear.

    At this point I'm leaning towards the possibility of your rear triangle tabs being off. It was hard to tell from your first photo, but it appears your rotor height occupies almost the entire entry gap cut into your caliper. I've included a photo of mine that shows there's clearly a good 3mm or so of clearance yet. If your mount was to standard, the caliper wouldn't sit so low. Your clearance should be similar.

    I'd imagine there's the possibility still that Hope screwed up and made the mounting arms too short, but that wouldn't explain why we've never heard of the problem before on other mounts built to standard. Hopes are all over the place. During the week that you used the Avids, did you notice the same pattern developing in the rotor track on the rear? If so, I'd call Yeti and see if they've seen these symptoms before. Bad batches do occur.

    If Hope offers to make a custom smaller rotor as a fix, they should offer to trade so you don't have to shell out anything. A smaller rotor would cure your problem, but the cure doesn't address the underlying reason why it's required. The more valid reason is probably frame mounts. Keep us posted.

    Rando
    Deceleration Trauma is my middle name

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndoRando

    At this point I'm leaning towards the possibility of your rear triangle tabs being off. It was hard to tell from your first photo, but it appears your rotor height occupies almost the entire entry gap cut into your caliper. I've included a photo of mine that shows there's clearly a good 3mm or so of clearance yet. If your mount was to standard, the caliper wouldn't sit so low. Your clearance should be similar.
    Well there is only one way to tell for sure I guess. I'll have to take my Mono M4 185mm rear from my other bike and swap it onto the Yeti frame and see if it has the same problem or not.

    Hope did respond again asking me what the exact diameter of my disc was, so not sure if they are still just thinking of making a smaller rotor for me or what

  19. #19
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    Well it does appear the it is in fact the frame tabs. I mounted the Avid's and they sit the same way. I just didn't notice it since the rotors were used so I couldn't see any abnormal wear. I've sent an e-mail to Yeti and I'll contact Adrenaline Bikes tomorrow about it. This sucks, hopefully it won't be a big ordeal getting this issue resolved. I just don't want any down time on my bike.....I just broke a rear shock mount bolt on my Foes tonight also

  20. #20
    No, that's not phonetic
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    I know you won't like this suggestion, but here goes...

    ...grab a small round file and take a few mm of material out of the bottom of the disc tab's mounting holes. This will drop the caliper the desired distance. Issue solved.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I know you won't like this suggestion, but here goes...

    ...grab a small round file and take a few mm of material out of the bottom of the disc tab's mounting holes. This will drop the caliper the desired distance. Issue solved.
    The caliper needs to go out further, not closer to the axle. I'm going to see what Yeti and Adrenaline say and go from there. Really the only way to remedy the problem is to replace the swingarm/triangle. Taking material off in the opposite direction wouldn't be something I would consider.

  22. #22
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Oh, yer right. Brain fart.

    I think there would be enough of material there to go up with the caliper, but see what Yeti says. It is your bike and you should end up satisfied. With the Avid mechs you could add a washer to the CPS shim stack and raise the caliper that way. I do that to position the Avid mech on my singlespeed which has horizontal mounts but not slotted caliper mounts.

    I recently built a 575 and did not notice anything odd about the rear brake (an Avid Mech as you originally had also).
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  23. #23
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    I Just checked my rear M2 160mm this morning, looks like the pad path is right to the edge of the rotor..

    However, my front M6 205mm was off by about 2mm just as your rear is. Luckily the M6 uses a radial mount and I was able to solve the problem with a couple of 2mm washers (see last pic).


    First two pics are the rear M2, last two are the front M6.
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  24. #24
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    fricken pick up the phone

    Quote Originally Posted by FXRob
    Exactly, I'm pretty frustrated with Hope's lack of response. I e-mailed Hope USA and got no response whatsoever, and Hope UK and got the above response which is total B.S.
    I tried emailing Hope, as well as other companies for service, and it ALWAYS sucked. Once you call them, they'll help you much better and faster than if you were to send a silent email. Hope has been great in settling my issues, that is, when i CALLED. Big difference.

    MRP, Yeti, SRAM, Fox....they've ALL been much more responsive on the phone...it's a lot more easy to ignore an email than a call....try it, don't be a wuss and pick up the damn phone.

    anyway, looks like the caliper is a little off. shouldn't be a problem, my monomini's do the same, and they work fantastic. i also run 180's front and rear on my x-cross. and my mono M4's? fuggetaboutit...they rokk my world.
    every thread needs an uploaded image of one kind or another.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by misctwo
    I tried emailing Hope, as well as other companies for service, and it ALWAYS sucked. Once you call them, they'll help you much better and faster than if you were to send a silent email. Hope has been great in settling my issues, that is, when i CALLED. Big difference.

    MRP, Yeti, SRAM, Fox....they've ALL been much more responsive on the phone...it's a lot more easy to ignore an email than a call....try it, don't be a wuss and pick up the damn phone.

    anyway, looks like the caliper is a little off. shouldn't be a problem, my monomini's do the same, and they work fantastic. i also run 180's front and rear on my x-cross. and my mono M4's? fuggetaboutit...they rokk my world.
    It's the tabs on the frame. He tried another brake, same issue.

    Wholeheartedly agree on the calling though. Folks just need to step up and call. You get can get a lot more accomplished.
    Last edited by tazdevl; 07-17-2005 at 01:47 PM.

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