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  1. #1
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    Hope M4/Mini Combo vs. Formula Oro K24

    Hi Brake Gurus-

    I've been a Hope brake user for a long time. I have the old Hope O2s on my Quasimoto and my wife's bike, and the original Minis on my singlespeed and my ti hardtail. I'm comfortable setting them up, servicing them, am familiar with their quirks, and am generally very happy with them.

    My hardtail frame is relatively recent, and I've never been successful at setting up the Minis well on it - lots of squealing and howling, despite facing the tabs and spending lots of time on it. I think I've figured out that the tolerances on it are a little closer, and the tab may locate the caliper a bit too close to the center of the hub, causing rub on the edge of the rotor when it heats up on long downhills. Regardless, I'm ready to try a different set of brakes on that bike.

    I'm currently thinking about an '07 Hope set up (180 F, 160 R - perhaps M4 F/Mini R) with the PM/IS adapters offering a little flexibility outward from the hub, and an easy setup). Since they're brand new on the market, I'm a little nervous. I have also been looking at the Formula Oro K24 - seems like everybody raves about those things - for a 180 F/160 R setup.

    I like the idea of staying with Hope, just because of easy bleeding that I know, great feel, good customer support, etc. I also like the fact that the K24s have a perfect rating on MTBR.

    These would be going on a ti hardtail, 100mm travel Fox Vanilla fork, all sorts of riding - but I live in Northern CA, so I do see some longish downhills. This rig also has S&S couplers, so I travel with it some. I weigh about 185, and like descending, but am not a downhiller.

    Any opinions, thoughts, additional considerations welcomed. Has anybody ridden both and have a good comparison between the two?

    Thanks!

    Chris.

  2. #2
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    i've just been having the same dilemma, but i was also looking at the Juicy 7's

    From what i could find on internet, people seemed to have less problems with the 7's than the hopes, but the best reviews seemed to be of the Oro K24's

    A UK bike mag just reviewed a load of brakes (incuding Juicy's, Hope mini's and M4's), and the top all round brake, with the best fade resistance (they stuck them on a rig like a dyno and meausred braking force and fluid boiling temp) was the Oro K24.

    I took a gamble based on all the reviews i could find and ordered a set yesterday. Just waiting for them to arrive....

    I think only disadvantage at moment could be lack of availability of parts / spares, but hopefully if they are as good as the reviews say then this shouldnt be an issue, and they should become more popular, which will maybe increase availability of bits. I'll just buy a stock of pads though so i wont have to keep hunting around on the internet each time i need to replace them.

    Anyway, not the user review you were maybe hoping for, but just thought i'd post!!

  3. #3
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    just made the switch

    Just made the switch from Hope Mono Minis to Oro K24's in the fall. Huge difference, I definitely recommend the Formula's. They are easier to set up, more powerful, and better modulation. These comparisons are versus 2005 Mono Minis & not the 2007. However, unless Hope really tranformed their brakes in '07 I would go with the K24's.

    Also, I'm running 180 front and 160 rear, nice selection, seem well balanced.

  4. #4
    greg@formulabrakeusa.com
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    For what it's worth, we're located in Petaluma, so you at least shouldn't have a problem with access to spare parts!

    - Greg

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    I went from Hope mini to mini mono to Juicy seven and then to Formula Oro Puro...... I'm not going anywhere else ;-)

  6. #6
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    Thanks All

    Thanks for all of the input. I'm leaning towards the Oro K24s now...just have to convince myself that I don't need the extra bling of the Blancos.

    Time to get some price quotes.

    Chris.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neptune
    Thanks for all of the input. I'm leaning towards the Oro K24s now...just have to convince myself that I don't need the extra bling of the Blancos.

    Time to get some price quotes.

    Chris.
    welcome to the club! i'd be very surprised if you don't like the K24's. I was a diehard Hope fan too, still love them, but performancewise Formula just works better.

    i'd love to get a set of just the blanco levers for my K24's. nice and long one finger brake action!

    Greg, are they available as an aftermarket item?
    every thread needs an uploaded image of one kind or another.

  8. #8
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    i'd love to get a set of just the blanco levers for my K24's. nice and long one finger brake action!

    Greg, are they available as an aftermarket item?
    I'm not Greg, but Adrenalin Bikes' website lists the Blanco levers as an available part.

    FWIW, I just ditched Juicy 7's for K24's. Braking performance is equivalent, build quality is pretty much equivalent (slight nod going to the K24's), K24's are lighter and less bulky, and I found the K24's easier to mount and adjust. But here's the big plus - the K24's don't squeal, gobble, or make any noise what so ever (like the J7's did)!

  9. #9
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    As a note, Hope has several models available, from the Mini, M4, Moto, etc. You have to assess your needs and braking power. If you're going by braking power, then move up in the Hope line for a better comparison. Across the board, the modulation of Hopes are fantastic. I felt the Formula were too "on off", especially where I ride, where the terrain sucks and I don't want to drag my rear wheel downhill. It's much easier to ride on the edge of lockup on Hope brakes. I'm also a big fan of the bleeding method on Hope. I've even used the Formula syringes on the caliper and it makes it even easier.

    In the US, parts availability is great for Hope. You can deal direct with them, go to any qbp distributor, Jenson, Monk A Moo, etc, so that argument doesn't exist.

    They're all great brakes, just keep in mind one company uses one brake for everything, while the other specializes their brakes for the application.

  10. #10
    greg@formulabrakeusa.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by misctwo
    welcome to the club! i'd be very surprised if you don't like the K24's. I was a diehard Hope fan too, still love them, but performancewise Formula just works better.

    i'd love to get a set of just the blanco levers for my K24's. nice and long one finger brake action!

    Greg, are they available as an aftermarket item?
    Looks like your question has been answered, but yes, they are available in the aftermarket.

    - Greg

  11. #11
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    am i blind? i can't tell the difference between the levers:



  12. #12
    cgd
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    bravo jerk, couldnt agree more, ive often heard the "damn these mono minis, i keep cooking them on my 35lb all mountain rig".....

  13. #13
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    Oddly enough, I'm using Mono Minis on my 35 pound AM rig

    No problems yet, but if I end up going that far with them, I'm going to upgrade to an M4 front caliper.

    Personally, my preference is to have a company develop usage specific items because they will excel at their intended purpose with (sometimes) a lesser cost passed onto the customer. In the case of Minis, they're lightweight, work well, and a total steal, in terms of pricing. When working from heavier brakes, to make them lighter, you're going to have to use the carbon levers and covers, the Ti bolts, and the hoses, which provide diminishing returns to get something as light as something designed lightweight. Same on the other end of the spectrum with DH brakes. I'd rather have something purpose built for those applications, especially for fluid volume and other issues.
    Last edited by Jerk_Chicken; 03-09-2007 at 12:43 PM.

  14. #14
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    The Blanco's have a more "shallow" bend and are (I believe) a tiny bit longer. They're designed to be "1 finger" levers (like the Juicy 7's) where as the K24's levers are designed to be "2 finger" levers. Personally, I like the 1 finger levers on my old J7's but I was able to easily adapt to the 2 finger levers of my new K24's.

  15. #15
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    Those lever's aren't the Bianco levers from what i can tell. The levers for the Bianco's are different.


  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb_biker
    Those lever's aren't the Bianco levers from what i can tell. The levers for the Bianco's are different.


    [IMG]img240.imageshack.us/img240/163/biancoleveryn8.jpg[/IMG]

    somehow your image didn't show up...

    so is there a left and right lever? i'm about to put an order in.

    also what tools are required? looks like i'd need some special tool to remove the bolt at the pivot.
    every thread needs an uploaded image of one kind or another.

  17. #17
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    Hi guys,
    It is actually difficult to tell the difference in the lever blades from the angle of those photos. To removed the lever blade all you need is a 2.5 mm hex. The set screw for the lever blade pin is in the pocket just in front of the reach adjust. Back it out a full turn and the you will be able to push out the lever blade pin without any trouble. At that point just screw off the lever blade from the push rod (reach adjust).

    The left and right side are identical.

    The differences are this:

    Oro K18/K24:
    -Lever blade is cast.
    -Height of the lever blade where your fingers (or finger) rests is 16.5 mm.
    -The width of the finger pocket is 30mm.
    -The overall length of this lever blade from the center of the pivot pin to the end of the blade is 77mm.

    Oro Bianco
    -Lever blade is forged which makes it stronger.
    -Height of the lever blade where your fingers (or finger) rests is 12 mm.
    -The width of the finger pocket is 23mm.
    -The overall length of this lever blade from the center of the pivot pin to the end of the blade is 75mm.

    I would also like to point out that we also have specific models made for specific applications:

    Oro K18: Entry level XC/AM
    Oro K24: Mid level XC/AM
    Oro Bianco: DH/AM/FR
    Oro Puro: High end XC/AM Race.

    We are in the lucky position of having a 2 piston brake which is stronger (torque) in testing when using our sintered pads than some of our competitors 4 piston setups. Having the ability to save 1/2 a pound on a bike by switching out brakes and without sacrificing performance or durability is something we have been getting a lot of good feedback on.

    I hope that answered some questions.

    Cheers,

    Chris Costello
    Formula Brake USA

  18. #18
    Dat mah bike, punk!
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    you sure did answer mine....there goes another $50 on bike parts! woohoo!
    every thread needs an uploaded image of one kind or another.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formula Brake USA
    We are in the lucky position of having a 2 piston brake which is stronger (torque) in testing when using our sintered pads than some of our competitors 4 piston setups. Having the ability to save 1/2 a pound on a bike by switching out brakes and without sacrificing performance or durability is something we have been getting a lot of good feedback on.

    I hope that answered some questions.

    Cheers,

    Chris Costello
    Formula Brake USA
    Curious to hear who these four piston competitors were and the parameters of the tests.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    As a note, Hope has several models available, from the Mini, M4, Moto, etc. You have to assess your needs and braking power. If you're going by braking power, then move up in the Hope line for a better comparison. Across the board, the modulation of Hopes are fantastic. I felt the Formula were too "on off", especially where I ride, where the terrain sucks and I don't want to drag my rear wheel downhill. It's much easier to ride on the edge of lockup on Hope brakes. I'm also a big fan of the bleeding method on Hope. I've even used the Formula syringes on the caliper and it makes it even easier.

    In the US, parts availability is great for Hope. You can deal direct with them, go to any qbp distributor, Jenson, Monk A Moo, etc, so that argument doesn't exist.

    They're all great brakes, just keep in mind one company uses one brake for everything, while the other specializes their brakes for the application.
    100% agree. I have mono4's F&R (IS mount) on an epic (weigh the mono mini and mono4 calipers, I think you will be surprised how close they are, I was) When I ride other bikes (ie brakes) I am always initially impressed by the light touch. That is, until I get on steep rocky and/or sketchy terrain then I always begin to appreciate the Hopes ability to keep the wheels turning while still able to apply consistent, strong braking force. If you don't ride severe, steep or loose conditions you might not appreciate the modulation the Hopes have.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by misctwo
    [IMG]img240.imageshack.us/img240/163/biancoleveryn8.jpg[/IMG]

    somehow your image didn't show up...

    so is there a left and right lever? i'm about to put an order in.

    also what tools are required? looks like i'd need some special tool to remove the bolt at the pivot.
    can you see it now (attached on mtbr)?

    Greg answered your other question it looks like.

    Here's a German test with Bianco's / Code's / etc : http://www.sharebigfile.com/file/107...rakes-pdf.html
    Attached Images Attached Images

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formula Brake USA
    I would also like to point out that we also have specific models made for specific applications:

    Oro K18: Entry level XC/AM
    Oro K24: Mid level XC/AM
    Oro Bianco: DH/AM/FR
    Oro Puro: High end XC/AM Race.
    Hey Chris, is there really a difference between the Bianco and K24/Puro? I just recently got the Puros which are excellent by the way. Was told by my LBS that the Bianco is just a pimped up version of the K24. Care to elaborate the difference? Thanks!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinox73
    Hey Chris, is there really a difference between the Bianco and K24/Puro? I just recently got the Puros which are excellent by the way. Was told by my LBS that the Bianco is just a pimped up version of the K24. Care to elaborate the difference? Thanks!
    All the Formula brakes use the same master cylinder and caliper body. Where they differ is lever material, braided lines, lever length, hardware (Ti or Aluminum), and pads (sintered v. organic) and the color.

    Biancos use a one finger lever, sindered pads, have some TI bolts, and use braided lines aimed at DH/FR.

    Chris might be able to expound more but thats it as far as I know.

  24. #24
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    Basically all of these brakes are the same, with tweaks to get them to fit a range of riding. They aren't truly application specific.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Basically all of these brakes are the same, with tweaks to get them to fit a range of riding. They aren't truly application specific.
    I'm not sure i'd go that far to say that. Isn't brake compound, rotor size, and disc hose material making it more application specific?

    Do you really need to dictate an XC/DH/FR powered brake by the number of pistons?

    Shimano does the exact same thing. XT is the same as Saints just a different body color and utiling varying rotor sizes and those brakes are awesome for DH/FR. They dropped their 4 piston design for it.

    Hope Moto FR for example is a two piston brake, The Moto FR offers a 25% increase in power compared to the MonoM4(4 piston) or Mono6(6 piston) with the same disc diameter.

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