Results 1 to 50 of 50
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    37

    Hope M4/Mini Combo vs. Formula Oro K24

    Hi Brake Gurus-

    I've been a Hope brake user for a long time. I have the old Hope O2s on my Quasimoto and my wife's bike, and the original Minis on my singlespeed and my ti hardtail. I'm comfortable setting them up, servicing them, am familiar with their quirks, and am generally very happy with them.

    My hardtail frame is relatively recent, and I've never been successful at setting up the Minis well on it - lots of squealing and howling, despite facing the tabs and spending lots of time on it. I think I've figured out that the tolerances on it are a little closer, and the tab may locate the caliper a bit too close to the center of the hub, causing rub on the edge of the rotor when it heats up on long downhills. Regardless, I'm ready to try a different set of brakes on that bike.

    I'm currently thinking about an '07 Hope set up (180 F, 160 R - perhaps M4 F/Mini R) with the PM/IS adapters offering a little flexibility outward from the hub, and an easy setup). Since they're brand new on the market, I'm a little nervous. I have also been looking at the Formula Oro K24 - seems like everybody raves about those things - for a 180 F/160 R setup.

    I like the idea of staying with Hope, just because of easy bleeding that I know, great feel, good customer support, etc. I also like the fact that the K24s have a perfect rating on MTBR.

    These would be going on a ti hardtail, 100mm travel Fox Vanilla fork, all sorts of riding - but I live in Northern CA, so I do see some longish downhills. This rig also has S&S couplers, so I travel with it some. I weigh about 185, and like descending, but am not a downhiller.

    Any opinions, thoughts, additional considerations welcomed. Has anybody ridden both and have a good comparison between the two?

    Thanks!

    Chris.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    124
    i've just been having the same dilemma, but i was also looking at the Juicy 7's

    From what i could find on internet, people seemed to have less problems with the 7's than the hopes, but the best reviews seemed to be of the Oro K24's

    A UK bike mag just reviewed a load of brakes (incuding Juicy's, Hope mini's and M4's), and the top all round brake, with the best fade resistance (they stuck them on a rig like a dyno and meausred braking force and fluid boiling temp) was the Oro K24.

    I took a gamble based on all the reviews i could find and ordered a set yesterday. Just waiting for them to arrive....

    I think only disadvantage at moment could be lack of availability of parts / spares, but hopefully if they are as good as the reviews say then this shouldnt be an issue, and they should become more popular, which will maybe increase availability of bits. I'll just buy a stock of pads though so i wont have to keep hunting around on the internet each time i need to replace them.

    Anyway, not the user review you were maybe hoping for, but just thought i'd post!!

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: evilmoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    76

    just made the switch

    Just made the switch from Hope Mono Minis to Oro K24's in the fall. Huge difference, I definitely recommend the Formula's. They are easier to set up, more powerful, and better modulation. These comparisons are versus 2005 Mono Minis & not the 2007. However, unless Hope really tranformed their brakes in '07 I would go with the K24's.

    Also, I'm running 180 front and 160 rear, nice selection, seem well balanced.

  4. #4
    greg@formulabrakeusa.com
    Guest
    For what it's worth, we're located in Petaluma, so you at least shouldn't have a problem with access to spare parts!

    - Greg

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    379
    I went from Hope mini to mini mono to Juicy seven and then to Formula Oro Puro...... I'm not going anywhere else ;-)

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    37

    Thanks All

    Thanks for all of the input. I'm leaning towards the Oro K24s now...just have to convince myself that I don't need the extra bling of the Blancos.

    Time to get some price quotes.

    Chris.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: misctwo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    3,035
    Quote Originally Posted by Neptune
    Thanks for all of the input. I'm leaning towards the Oro K24s now...just have to convince myself that I don't need the extra bling of the Blancos.

    Time to get some price quotes.

    Chris.
    welcome to the club! i'd be very surprised if you don't like the K24's. I was a diehard Hope fan too, still love them, but performancewise Formula just works better.

    i'd love to get a set of just the blanco levers for my K24's. nice and long one finger brake action!

    Greg, are they available as an aftermarket item?

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: wddamf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    254
    i'd love to get a set of just the blanco levers for my K24's. nice and long one finger brake action!

    Greg, are they available as an aftermarket item?
    I'm not Greg, but Adrenalin Bikes' website lists the Blanco levers as an available part.

    FWIW, I just ditched Juicy 7's for K24's. Braking performance is equivalent, build quality is pretty much equivalent (slight nod going to the K24's), K24's are lighter and less bulky, and I found the K24's easier to mount and adjust. But here's the big plus - the K24's don't squeal, gobble, or make any noise what so ever (like the J7's did)!

  9. #9
    banned
    Reputation: Jerk_Chicken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,466
    As a note, Hope has several models available, from the Mini, M4, Moto, etc. You have to assess your needs and braking power. If you're going by braking power, then move up in the Hope line for a better comparison. Across the board, the modulation of Hopes are fantastic. I felt the Formula were too "on off", especially where I ride, where the terrain sucks and I don't want to drag my rear wheel downhill. It's much easier to ride on the edge of lockup on Hope brakes. I'm also a big fan of the bleeding method on Hope. I've even used the Formula syringes on the caliper and it makes it even easier.

    In the US, parts availability is great for Hope. You can deal direct with them, go to any qbp distributor, Jenson, Monk A Moo, etc, so that argument doesn't exist.

    They're all great brakes, just keep in mind one company uses one brake for everything, while the other specializes their brakes for the application.

  10. #10
    greg@formulabrakeusa.com
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by misctwo
    welcome to the club! i'd be very surprised if you don't like the K24's. I was a diehard Hope fan too, still love them, but performancewise Formula just works better.

    i'd love to get a set of just the blanco levers for my K24's. nice and long one finger brake action!

    Greg, are they available as an aftermarket item?
    Looks like your question has been answered, but yes, they are available in the aftermarket.

    - Greg

  11. #11
    011100000110111101101111
    Reputation: unfluid one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,247
    am i blind? i can't tell the difference between the levers:



  12. #12
    cgd
    cgd is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cgd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    171
    bravo jerk, couldnt agree more, ive often heard the "damn these mono minis, i keep cooking them on my 35lb all mountain rig".....

  13. #13
    banned
    Reputation: Jerk_Chicken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,466
    Oddly enough, I'm using Mono Minis on my 35 pound AM rig

    No problems yet, but if I end up going that far with them, I'm going to upgrade to an M4 front caliper.

    Personally, my preference is to have a company develop usage specific items because they will excel at their intended purpose with (sometimes) a lesser cost passed onto the customer. In the case of Minis, they're lightweight, work well, and a total steal, in terms of pricing. When working from heavier brakes, to make them lighter, you're going to have to use the carbon levers and covers, the Ti bolts, and the hoses, which provide diminishing returns to get something as light as something designed lightweight. Same on the other end of the spectrum with DH brakes. I'd rather have something purpose built for those applications, especially for fluid volume and other issues.
    Last edited by Jerk_Chicken; 03-09-2007 at 01:43 PM.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: wddamf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    254
    The Blanco's have a more "shallow" bend and are (I believe) a tiny bit longer. They're designed to be "1 finger" levers (like the Juicy 7's) where as the K24's levers are designed to be "2 finger" levers. Personally, I like the 1 finger levers on my old J7's but I was able to easily adapt to the 2 finger levers of my new K24's.

  15. #15
    -> SickLines.com <-
    Reputation: mtb_biker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,213
    Those lever's aren't the Bianco levers from what i can tell. The levers for the Bianco's are different.


  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: misctwo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    3,035
    Quote Originally Posted by mtb_biker
    Those lever's aren't the Bianco levers from what i can tell. The levers for the Bianco's are different.




    somehow your image didn't show up...

    so is there a left and right lever? i'm about to put an order in.

    also what tools are required? looks like i'd need some special tool to remove the bolt at the pivot.

  17. #17
    Industry Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    287
    Hi guys,
    It is actually difficult to tell the difference in the lever blades from the angle of those photos. To removed the lever blade all you need is a 2.5 mm hex. The set screw for the lever blade pin is in the pocket just in front of the reach adjust. Back it out a full turn and the you will be able to push out the lever blade pin without any trouble. At that point just screw off the lever blade from the push rod (reach adjust).

    The left and right side are identical.

    The differences are this:

    Oro K18/K24:
    -Lever blade is cast.
    -Height of the lever blade where your fingers (or finger) rests is 16.5 mm.
    -The width of the finger pocket is 30mm.
    -The overall length of this lever blade from the center of the pivot pin to the end of the blade is 77mm.

    Oro Bianco
    -Lever blade is forged which makes it stronger.
    -Height of the lever blade where your fingers (or finger) rests is 12 mm.
    -The width of the finger pocket is 23mm.
    -The overall length of this lever blade from the center of the pivot pin to the end of the blade is 75mm.

    I would also like to point out that we also have specific models made for specific applications:

    Oro K18: Entry level XC/AM
    Oro K24: Mid level XC/AM
    Oro Bianco: DH/AM/FR
    Oro Puro: High end XC/AM Race.

    We are in the lucky position of having a 2 piston brake which is stronger (torque) in testing when using our sintered pads than some of our competitors 4 piston setups. Having the ability to save 1/2 a pound on a bike by switching out brakes and without sacrificing performance or durability is something we have been getting a lot of good feedback on.

    I hope that answered some questions.

    Cheers,

    Chris Costello
    Formula Brake USA

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: misctwo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    3,035
    you sure did answer mine....there goes another $50 on bike parts! woohoo!

  19. #19
    banned
    Reputation: Jerk_Chicken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,466
    Quote Originally Posted by Formula Brake USA
    We are in the lucky position of having a 2 piston brake which is stronger (torque) in testing when using our sintered pads than some of our competitors 4 piston setups. Having the ability to save 1/2 a pound on a bike by switching out brakes and without sacrificing performance or durability is something we have been getting a lot of good feedback on.

    I hope that answered some questions.

    Cheers,

    Chris Costello
    Formula Brake USA
    Curious to hear who these four piston competitors were and the parameters of the tests.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Grumpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    734
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    As a note, Hope has several models available, from the Mini, M4, Moto, etc. You have to assess your needs and braking power. If you're going by braking power, then move up in the Hope line for a better comparison. Across the board, the modulation of Hopes are fantastic. I felt the Formula were too "on off", especially where I ride, where the terrain sucks and I don't want to drag my rear wheel downhill. It's much easier to ride on the edge of lockup on Hope brakes. I'm also a big fan of the bleeding method on Hope. I've even used the Formula syringes on the caliper and it makes it even easier.

    In the US, parts availability is great for Hope. You can deal direct with them, go to any qbp distributor, Jenson, Monk A Moo, etc, so that argument doesn't exist.

    They're all great brakes, just keep in mind one company uses one brake for everything, while the other specializes their brakes for the application.
    100% agree. I have mono4's F&R (IS mount) on an epic (weigh the mono mini and mono4 calipers, I think you will be surprised how close they are, I was) When I ride other bikes (ie brakes) I am always initially impressed by the light touch. That is, until I get on steep rocky and/or sketchy terrain then I always begin to appreciate the Hopes ability to keep the wheels turning while still able to apply consistent, strong braking force. If you don't ride severe, steep or loose conditions you might not appreciate the modulation the Hopes have.

  21. #21
    -> SickLines.com <-
    Reputation: mtb_biker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,213
    Quote Originally Posted by misctwo


    somehow your image didn't show up...

    so is there a left and right lever? i'm about to put an order in.

    also what tools are required? looks like i'd need some special tool to remove the bolt at the pivot.
    can you see it now (attached on mtbr)?

    Greg answered your other question it looks like.

    Here's a German test with Bianco's / Code's / etc : http://www.sharebigfile.com/file/107...rakes-pdf.html
    Attached Images Attached Images

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by Formula Brake USA
    I would also like to point out that we also have specific models made for specific applications:

    Oro K18: Entry level XC/AM
    Oro K24: Mid level XC/AM
    Oro Bianco: DH/AM/FR
    Oro Puro: High end XC/AM Race.
    Hey Chris, is there really a difference between the Bianco and K24/Puro? I just recently got the Puros which are excellent by the way. Was told by my LBS that the Bianco is just a pimped up version of the K24. Care to elaborate the difference? Thanks!

  23. #23
    -> SickLines.com <-
    Reputation: mtb_biker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,213
    Quote Originally Posted by kevinox73
    Hey Chris, is there really a difference between the Bianco and K24/Puro? I just recently got the Puros which are excellent by the way. Was told by my LBS that the Bianco is just a pimped up version of the K24. Care to elaborate the difference? Thanks!
    All the Formula brakes use the same master cylinder and caliper body. Where they differ is lever material, braided lines, lever length, hardware (Ti or Aluminum), and pads (sintered v. organic) and the color.

    Biancos use a one finger lever, sindered pads, have some TI bolts, and use braided lines aimed at DH/FR.

    Chris might be able to expound more but thats it as far as I know.

  24. #24
    banned
    Reputation: Jerk_Chicken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,466
    Basically all of these brakes are the same, with tweaks to get them to fit a range of riding. They aren't truly application specific.

  25. #25
    -> SickLines.com <-
    Reputation: mtb_biker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,213
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Basically all of these brakes are the same, with tweaks to get them to fit a range of riding. They aren't truly application specific.
    I'm not sure i'd go that far to say that. Isn't brake compound, rotor size, and disc hose material making it more application specific?

    Do you really need to dictate an XC/DH/FR powered brake by the number of pistons?

    Shimano does the exact same thing. XT is the same as Saints just a different body color and utiling varying rotor sizes and those brakes are awesome for DH/FR. They dropped their 4 piston design for it.

    Hope Moto FR for example is a two piston brake, The Moto FR offers a 25% increase in power compared to the MonoM4(4 piston) or Mono6(6 piston) with the same disc diameter.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,889
    Quote Originally Posted by mtb_biker
    .......Shimano does the exact same thing. XT is the same.....They dropped their 4 piston design for it.....
    The 4 pott xt still feels like it has more power and more controlled power while hauling yourself down from high speed stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by mtb_biker
    .......Hope Moto FR for example is a two piston brake, The Moto FR offers a 25% increase in power compared to the MonoM4(4 piston) or Mono6(6 piston) with the same disc diameter.
    The rotor surface area is like twice as wide on the Moto.

  27. #27
    -> SickLines.com <-
    Reputation: mtb_biker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,213
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratt
    The 4 pott xt still feels like it has more power and more controlled power while hauling yourself down from high speed stuff.
    Yea I have a set of the 4 pots and they do work great and trouble free. While they do feel great hauling down from high speed, i don't think the newer design Saint/XT is far behind as far as braking or overall power.

    The rotor surface area is like twice as wide on the Moto.
    Yes the rotor is bigger, but its still two piston was the main point.

  28. #28
    banned
    Reputation: Jerk_Chicken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,466
    Quote Originally Posted by mtb_biker
    I'm not sure i'd go that far to say that. Isn't brake compound, rotor size, and disc hose material making it more application specific?

    Do you really need to dictate an XC/DH/FR powered brake by the number of pistons?

    Shimano does the exact same thing. XT is the same as Saints just a different body color and utiling varying rotor sizes and those brakes are awesome for DH/FR. They dropped their 4 piston design for it.

    Hope Moto FR for example is a two piston brake, The Moto FR offers a 25% increase in power compared to the MonoM4(4 piston) or Mono6(6 piston) with the same disc diameter.
    There is a lot in this post that makes me chuckle. Some of it falls into the "state the obvious" category. Some of it falls into the "lack of understanding the usage of multiple pistons" category.

  29. #29
    -> SickLines.com <-
    Reputation: mtb_biker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,213
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    There is a lot in this post that makes me chuckle. Some of it falls into the "state the obvious" category. Some of it falls into the "lack of understanding the usage of multiple pistons" category.
    Right... Anyway ride on.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    779
    So just a moment, is the Bianco lever really only for one finger? I mainly one finger brake on my Mono6s but am looking at building up a 30lb-ish All mountain bike that would be used for everything from steep trails to xc races, which Formula brake would be the best choice?

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by mtb_biker
    Yea I have a set of the 4 pots and they do work great and trouble free. While they do feel great hauling down from high speed, i don't think the newer design Saint/XT is far behind as far as braking or overall power.

    Yes the rotor is bigger, but its still two piston was the main point.
    I just came off a pair of XT 4-pots (with Dangerboy levers and Goodridge lines) and I must say they are better in terms of stopping power and modulation as compared to the XT (conventional 2piston) which I was previously using (with Goodridge lines as well for fair comparison).

    The Puro provides a better feel in terms of modulation and the braided lines look wicked. Still need some time to break-in the brakes as the stopping power isn't there yet. But I should be getting there soon as the feel on my 2nd ride was much better and it provided excellent control in the singletrack. Only thing I miss is my Dangerboy levers from my previous setup. Darn ...

  32. #32
    greg@formulabrakeusa.com
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Hack On Wheels
    So just a moment, is the Bianco lever really only for one finger? I mainly one finger brake on my Mono6s but am looking at building up a 30lb-ish All mountain bike that would be used for everything from steep trails to xc races, which Formula brake would be the best choice?
    The Bianco lever was developed based on input from the Honda/G-Cross team.. They wanted a narrower lever for one finger braking. If you're thinking you might be better served by the wider lever on the K24, you can always buy the sintered pads when you wear through the stock organic pads, and power wise you will have the same brake. We get a lot of comments about the K24 levers being very comfortable - the Bianco is new enough that we haven't gotten a lot of feedback in the US. Minnaar likes it, though!

    I personally use one finger with the Puros on my Nomad (32 lbs give or take), and it works great for me.

    Best regards,
    Greg

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    779
    Well I probably only ever one-finger brake, so the Bianco may be the best choice (not to mention it has an awesome finish!), but if I were to get the Bianco and then later decide I want the wider lever, could I purchase some extra levers and swap them? The lower cost of the K24 is still attractive though...
    Thanks for the response!

    Edit: just looked back in the thread and I think my lever swapping question has been answered.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    124
    well myK24's just arrived yesterday, so fitted them and went out for a pretty hilly 20 mile ride. These brakes are awesome straight out of the box!!

    Even without bedding in they have great power and modulation. I bedded them in during the ride, and now they are better than the Hope minis and Juicy 7's that i have tried. Set up was simple (my hoses are a teeny bit long, but they'll do - i dont fancy cutting them as i know i'll make a mess of it, and i dont really want to book my bike in at the shop as i'll lose riding time )

    I have one little query though for other users (and Greg from Formula if he reads this!!):

    When i first put the front on and tried it in my street, there was a tiny 'click' each time i applied the front brake while moving. I checked caliper and post mount bolts and all are tight + alignment seems good. I put a bit of copper grease on the back of the pads, and the 'click' went, but i have a very slight buzz now when braking (its not loud at all, and no vibration felt). The noise doesnt bother me, just wondering what it could be? Is it some vibration of the pads, or something more serious?? All the bolts are torqued up correctly, + loctited where required.

    Anyway, i would defintalely reccommend these brakes if the original poster hasnt ordered theirs yet!!

  35. #35
    011100000110111101101111
    Reputation: unfluid one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,247
    what is ur set up (fork and bar rise), and how long is ur front brake hose (100 or 85cm)?
    I just ordered a 100cm, and i'm thinking the 85cm might be long enough (measuring my current hose)........ but there's been a report of the 85cm being too short on a similarly equipped bike.

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    124
    Quote Originally Posted by unfluid one
    what is ur set up (fork and bar rise), and how long is ur front brake hose (100 or 85cm)?
    I just ordered a 100cm, and i'm thinking the 85cm might be long enough (measuring my current hose)........ but there's been a report of the 85cm being too short on a similarly equipped bike.

    My brake hose is 85cm,
    Forks are Fox Float 100mm
    Vertical distance from Dropout height to bars 68cm (shock completely unloaded)
    Lever clamp is 19cm from centre of bar
    Stem length is 90mm

    ideally my hose could be a bit shorter, but its ok as it is,just gives a slightly larger curve of hose from the bar to the hose guide on fork leg.

    HTH if you want any other measurements let me know. But it will be tomorrow before i go to garage again as i've just opened another beer

  37. #37
    Industry Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    287
    Hi guys,

    Eldiablo: The click you remedied was most likely the pads/pad spring breaking in or the pad shifting slightly in the caliper. It probably would have gone away by itself after a few break-in rides. Your solution should be OK as long as you used only a very small amount of the copper grease.
    The very faint buzzing/whirring you hear is not uncommon with our brakes and it can be attributed to the shape of our rotors and pads. Nothing at all to be alarmed about...it sounds like they are working correctly.

    Re: other questions about hose lengths:
    Ft: We have found that the 850 front length is long enough to fit most single crown forks with 160mm of travel or less. If you are running a 160mm fork and you have XL bike, if your frame has a particularly large headtube, if your using 20mm+ of HS spacers, or a high rise bar you should probably move up to the 1000mm.
    Rr: The 1500mm rear fits most bikes with the following exceptions: Large or XL 29er, XL 26" which have particularly long cable routing or very long/high rise stems or bars. Large or XL DH/FR bikes which are using extra wide bars.

    If in doubt, get the longer length! All of our brakes come with a new fitting kit if you need to shorten your hose.

    I hope that answers all the questions.

    Cheers,

    Chris Costello
    Formula Brake USA

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,283
    Not to be a hijack, but can formulas work with DOT 5.1 fluid?

  39. #39
    greg@formulabrakeusa.com
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Rover Nick
    Not to be a hijack, but can formulas work with DOT 5.1 fluid?
    Short answer is no. Only Glycol based DOT fluids, not silicone.

    - Greg

  40. #40
    banned
    Reputation: Jerk_Chicken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,466
    Quote Originally Posted by greg@formulabrakeusa.com
    Short answer is no. Only Glycol based DOT fluids, not silicone.

    - Greg
    5.1 is NOT silicone. DOT5 is silicone based. Since silicone came out before 5.1, it was given the DOT5 designation, thus the break in compatibility going from 4-5.1. Please do a websearch to verify this fact.

    DOT 4 is compatible with 5.1. I can also scan some of the instructions from my autorepair manuals and my Hope manuals that speak of this compatibility as well.

  41. #41
    greg@formulabrakeusa.com
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    5.1 is NOT silicone. DOT5 is silicone based. Since silicone came out before 5.1, it was given the DOT5 designation, thus the break in compatibility going from 4-5.1. Please do a websearch to verify this fact.

    DOT 4 is compatible with 5.1. I can also scan some of the instructions from my autorepair manuals and my Hope manuals that speak of this compatibility as well.
    Mea Culpa - the Jerk is right.

    3, 4 or 5.1 are compatible with our brakes. DOT 5, silicone based fluid is not compatible. Sorry for any confusion.

    Best regards,
    Greg

  42. #42
    011100000110111101101111
    Reputation: unfluid one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,247
    I just got my K24.. aside from dragging them around the block to burn them in, haven't ridden them so the reviews will come in after this weekend. But the lever feel is superb. no vertical slop, very solid lever and very supple when squeezed.. more so than any hope, shimano,avid I have squeezed (i'm only talking about the feel when squeezed.. nothing else ). They are on par with my magura Louise Bats.

    Also there was a mixup with the length I ordered, but Greg took care of my asap no questions asked.. so props for their customer service
    Last edited by unfluid one; 03-28-2007 at 11:58 PM.

  43. #43
    Single Speed Junkie
    Reputation: crux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,108
    Have had the opportunity to independently test most of the brakes out there on the market for mountain bikes with work recently. Testing has shown that the Formulas are more powerful than the Hope M4 and Mini. Also they do not squeal like pigs when brakes are applied. Customer service is far better with Formulas over other manufactures. Really it is a no brainer Formula produces better brakes and stands behind what they sell.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Grumpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    734
    Quote Originally Posted by crux
    Have had the opportunity to independently test most of the brakes out there on the market for mountain bikes with work recently. Testing has shown that the Formulas are more powerful than the Hope M4 and Mini. Also they do not squeal like pigs when brakes are applied. Customer service is far better with Formulas over other manufactures. Really it is a no brainer Formula produces better brakes and stands behind what they sell.
    That is utter nonsense. You should be ashamed to post such intentionally misleading drivel. (that is assuming you have enough clue to realize that it was)
    I have set up many pairs of hope brakes and none squeal any more than any other brand and actually less than most (and being NE based we get a ton of rain and many of our trails cross (and run along) stony creeks and stream beds that are wet 8 months out of the year (and frozen the other 4)
    All disk brakes require careful setup and bedding to run quiet. This is particularly if you use sintered (metal) pads and also particularly true with IS mounts (the Hopes had both until recently switching to PM style)

    As far as power again that is a misleading term. What you are likely feeling is initial clamping force not power. Hope brakes can easily be operated with one finger (mine are set up so I can only get one finger on the lever (levers inside the rapidfire pods) and I never have to pull hard to lock the wheels even on pavement. On the other hand Hopes modulation is among (or THE) best on the market.

    Lastly it is very insulting to insinuate that the folks at Hope (or avid, or magura) don't stand behind their product. I have only had to talk to the US distributer a couple times for tech support but I have never had any more courteous, helpful or informed tech people and they were always willing to take the time to make sure the problem was rectified.

  45. #45
    011100000110111101101111
    Reputation: unfluid one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,247
    magura folks have been great to me.. had some leaky MC (came back leaky again from their tech) and fixing it took a bit more $ than i wished for (2nd time around took it to my LBS), but
    they were apologetic and took care of me without a grunt.

  46. #46
    banned
    Reputation: Jerk_Chicken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,466
    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy
    That is utter nonsense. You should be ashamed to post such intentionally misleading drivel. (that is assuming you have enough clue to realize that it was)
    I have set up many pairs of hope brakes and none squeal any more than any other brand and actually less than most (and being NE based we get a ton of rain and many of our trails cross (and run along) stony creeks and stream beds that are wet 8 months out of the year (and frozen the other 4)
    All disk brakes require careful setup and bedding to run quiet. This is particularly if you use sintered (metal) pads and also particularly true with IS mounts (the Hopes had both until recently switching to PM style)

    As far as power again that is a misleading term. What you are likely feeling is initial clamping force not power. Hope brakes can easily be operated with one finger (mine are set up so I can only get one finger on the lever (levers inside the rapidfire pods) and I never have to pull hard to lock the wheels even on pavement. On the other hand Hopes modulation is among (or THE) best on the market.

    Lastly it is very insulting to insinuate that the folks at Hope (or avid, or magura) don't stand behind their product. I have only had to talk to the US distributer a couple times for tech support but I have never had any more courteous, helpful or informed tech people and they were always willing to take the time to make sure the problem was rectified.
    It seems Formula might have a couple of shills on the board as their US works rebuilds itself.

    Comparing the Oro to the Mini is not a direct comparison. As mentioned before, Formula has essentially one brake with bells and whistles added to fit a bunch of riding styles while Hope makes several different brakes specifically designed for each class of biking.

    While I don't doubt Formula makes a good product, their comparative advertising is shameful at best.

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    379

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I

    Comparing the Oro to the Mini is not a direct comparison. As mentioned before, Formula has essentially one brake with bells and whistles added to fit a bunch of riding styles while Hope makes several different brakes specifically designed for each class of biking.
    Proof of the pudding is in the eating.... what have no.'s of brakes produced got to do with it?

    A UK magazine (What MTB)tested numerically & real world a no. of brakes including 2 different hope brakes and the Forumla K24 came out the best of all of them, they were the most powerful...... I'vve had both hope, Avid and Formula....Formula are the best in just about every category, feel,setup build quality.....all in my humble experience anyway!

    I happen to think that having Formula USA people making themselves known on this board lends credence to the marque.....

  48. #48
    greg@formulabrakeusa.com
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    It seems Formula might have a couple of shills on the board as their US works rebuilds itself.

    Comparing the Oro to the Mini is not a direct comparison. As mentioned before, Formula has essentially one brake with bells and whistles added to fit a bunch of riding styles while Hope makes several different brakes specifically designed for each class of biking.

    While I don't doubt Formula makes a good product, their comparative advertising is shameful at best.
    I believe the only shills here are Chris and Myself..

    I think we have some satisfied customers, as do Magura, Avid, Hope, and Shimano. It's a pretty good time to be a consumer.

    It's true that our product line consists of one platform modified as necessary to fit a number of riding styles and performance goals. In the past, Formula has had different brakes for different applications (B4/Extreme), so it's not like we haven't been down that road.

    The Oro line is kind of an exercise in taking things the other direction - starting with a solid fundamental design and working from there. Based on feedback we get and the range of use the brakes are seeing at the highest levels of competition, it seems like a success.

    Best regards,
    Greg

  49. #49
    Single Speed Junkie
    Reputation: crux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,108
    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy
    That is utter nonsense. You should be ashamed to post such intentionally misleading drivel. (that is assuming you have enough clue to realize that it was)
    I have set up many pairs of hope brakes and none squeal any more than any other brand and actually less than most (and being NE based we get a ton of rain and many of our trails cross (and run along) stony creeks and stream beds that are wet 8 months out of the year (and frozen the other 4)
    All disk brakes require careful setup and bedding to run quiet. This is particularly if you use sintered (metal) pads and also particularly true with IS mounts (the Hopes had both until recently switching to PM style)

    As far as power again that is a misleading term. What you are likely feeling is initial clamping force not power. Hope brakes can easily be operated with one finger (mine are set up so I can only get one finger on the lever (levers inside the rapidfire pods) and I never have to pull hard to lock the wheels even on pavement. On the other hand Hopes modulation is among (or THE) best on the market.

    Lastly it is very insulting to insinuate that the folks at Hope (or avid, or magura) don't stand behind their product. I have only had to talk to the US distributer a couple times for tech support but I have never had any more courteous, helpful or informed tech people and they were always willing to take the time to make sure the problem was rectified.
    Glad that you are so passionate about you Hopes wish I could say the same. Had a set of the 05 M4 on my bike and it was issue after issue. First it was the frames fault, then the hubs, then a resonate frequency. Donít know about you but Philwood, and King make some nice hubs same could be said for the frames Independent Fabrication and Ventana. Besides the point, called tech and still after trouble shooting everything and having the calipers set up dead nuts on perfect still they howled. Apparently got a bum set and attempted to swap them out for a replacement and no go. Have installed probably 20 + sets of M4 and only one had issues, the one that went on my bike. When Hope has a bad set live up to it and keep your customer base happy spending several hundred on a set of brakes and not having them work is really bs.

    Back to the testing that we did. The Formulas did prove to work better from 70-0mph than any other brake and remained controlled in the lab. The Hope Mini did fairly well, but was weak, the M4 was inconsistent and prone to squeal. Of course this is all in a lab and not real world. Other brakes were in the middle of the testing and Buck over at Magura was very helpful in helping us out regarding some Marta SL and Gustav. We were limited to 160 mm rotors for the test and some custom brackets had to be fabricated for the Gustav. In the end we have the test data and experience dealing with the companies and know whom we will be doing business with. Finally yea the testing was fun.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    779
    Quote Originally Posted by crux
    Glad that you are so passionate about you Hopes wish I could say the same. Had a set of the 05 M4 on my bike and it was issue after issue. First it was the frames fault, then the hubs, then a resonate frequency. Donít know about you but Philwood, and King make some nice hubs same could be said for the frames Independent Fabrication and Ventana. Besides the point, called tech and still after trouble shooting everything and having the calipers set up dead nuts on perfect still they howled. Apparently got a bum set and attempted to swap them out for a replacement and no go. Have installed probably 20 + sets of M4 and only one had issues, the one that went on my bike. When Hope has a bad set live up to it and keep your customer base happy spending several hundred on a set of brakes and not having them work is really bs.

    Back to the testing that we did. The Formulas did prove to work better from 70-0mph than any other brake and remained controlled in the lab. The Hope Mini did fairly well, but was weak, the M4 was inconsistent and prone to squeal. Of course this is all in a lab and not real world. Other brakes were in the middle of the testing and Buck over at Magura was very helpful in helping us out regarding some Marta SL and Gustav. We were limited to 160 mm rotors for the test and some custom brackets had to be fabricated for the Gustav. In the end we have the test data and experience dealing with the companies and know whom we will be doing business with. Finally yea the testing was fun.
    No M6 testing? And what do you mean by "inconsistent"? How did the Gustav stand in the test?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •