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  1. #1
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    Hey Avid Ultimate Users

    I have been a Hayes fan due to their set em and forget em durability for the last couple years. I am in the process of building the perfect beast for XC rding/racing and am considering the Avid Ultimate, the 330 gram weight is very inticing. All I have seen and exspecially HEARD is the noise and interaction between pad and rotor on the Avid's. Another concern is the quote on the Avid site that specifies these brakes as xc race/ marathon use only no AM/FR/DH. Does this mean these brakes are fragile and will brake if I lay the bike down or is this a warning that I may experience brake fade or loss during decents?

  2. #2
    turtles make me hot
    Reputation: NYrr496's Avatar
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    I have Juicy Ultimate 7's. They were perfect until they developed some noise on a recent ride. I cleaned em, scuffed the pads and they're back to being great again.
    I weigh 260, I have the 203mm on the front and the 180 on the rear. I have not experienced fade or had any shortage of stopping power. They do not seem fragile either. I fall a lot.
    I like turtles

  3. #3
    Hack Racer
    Reputation: Cheers!'s Avatar
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    I have the AVID Juicy Ultimates. To me the setup was a breeze. I have not noticed any turkey wobble squeal as claimed by some people here. To me squeal and noise is the result of a rotor not being true, or the brakes not perfectly centered between the disc, or you got them wet from a puddle. The modulation, and feel is great. The weight is excellent (yes there are lighter brakes out there).

    That said I didn't like the Avid organic pads, and I'm running the EBC Golds for extra bite.

    The reason why they are not intended for AM/FR/DH is because they are very minimalistic brakes. AM/FR/DH brakes are not more robust than ultra light weight XC brakes, it is just that XC brakes have very little heat sink capacity. Brakes work by converting kinetic energy (spinning) to potential energy (heat). Once the ability to convert kinetic to potential is realized you can't convert anymore, you have overheated the brakes.

    What determines how much potential energy can be converted is how quickly you can dissipate the heat energy, and how much heat energy you can store. XC brakes with very little metal in the caliper and severely pocketed out brake rotors to reduce weight means they can not hold much potential energy. Once you go beyond the ability of the brakes (caliper, pads, rotor, fluid) to store the heat energy generated you experience fade from the fluid boiling and the pads dropping coefficient of friction.

    To say XC brakes are fragile and DH/AM brakes robust is not the correct conclusion. They are made for different applications and XC brakes excel in applications where you do not get sustained descents requiring extended continuous application. AM/DH are for continuous application.

  4. #4
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    That was my hope as this will be a XC ride/race bike in Florida, not a whole lot of sustained braking going on around here

  5. #5
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    Hey Cheers, did you notice a real upgrade in braking power using the EBC gold pads...? Nino keeps saying that, but I'm searching for more opinions...

    Can you explain in more detail the diference between pads?

  6. #6
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    Avid Ultimates rock. I'm 215 lbs and have been using the Ultimates on the All-Mtn bike for over a year with zero problems. They do get a bit hot on super-steep, extended downhills (but I'm talkin' Tahoe/Downieville-length downhills). I'd say they'll work fine unless you weigh considerably more than me, or your name is Steve Peat.

    Interestingly, I just switched my Avid Ultimates from the All-Mtn bike to a "new" singlespeed build, and replaced 'em on the All-Mtn bike (Ventana El Salt) with a new set of Avid Elixir CRs. As far as brake "power" - so far I hardly notice a difference - both brakes work excellently in my opinion. The Elixir CRs are a perhaps a tad more powerful, and I'll probably notice the difference in power more with extended steep downhills (only 2 rides with 'em so far). But, again, unless you're rocking 2-3 + mile continuous (brakes on the whole time) downhill runs at breakneck speeds, the Ultimates should be more than enough for ya.

  7. #7
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    Well after much deliberation and browsing the web, I came across a great price on the new Hayes Grams and pulled the trigger on a set. Both of my wheel sets are set up with Hayes rotors and my past Hayes experiences were uneventful the way we like it, set em and forget em. One interesting thing I came across while browsing was an application for patent from Avid on a brake system in the same style as the Strokers/XT/Magura Marta. Hmmmmmm

  8. #8
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    I'm glad i found this thread. I'm going to fit my Juicy Ultimates to my Glory Expert next week and see how they go on the 8" rotors. I'd like to save some weight on the bike and i figure that it would be nice to flick the Codes and fit the Ultimates.
    http://wembleycycles.com/ Yeti Cycles Dealer for Western Australia.

  9. #9
    Come on, dare me!
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    I've been using Juicy Ultimates on my FS XC bike and have been very disappointed by their lack of power (160 mm rotors F/R), even with EBC pads.

    By comparison, I have a set of Magura Martas and a set of Oro Puros, which are about the same weight, give or take 15 g (the Oro Puro was, until recently, the lightest 160 mm disc brake available) and both are much more powerful in stock form.

    Plus, the carbon blades on the Ultimates are rigidly mounted (unlike the Formulas), which means that you can break them in a fall (I did)...

    All in all, I would not recommend these brakes to anyone riding agressively or weighing more than 140 lbs.

    Jerome

  10. #10
    Meh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paperplane
    I'm glad i found this thread. I'm going to fit my Juicy Ultimates to my Glory Expert next week and see how they go on the 8" rotors. I'd like to save some weight on the bike and i figure that it would be nice to flick the Codes and fit the Ultimates.
    I would recommend the Elixirs over the Ultimates.

  11. #11
    I wanna go fast!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerome
    I've been using Juicy Ultimates on my FS XC bike and have been very disappointed by their lack of power (160 mm rotors F/R), even with EBC pads.

    By comparison, I have a set of Magura Martas and a set of Oro Puros, which are about the same weight, give or take 15 g (the Oro Puro was, until recently, the lightest 160 mm disc brake available) and both are much more powerful in stock form.

    Plus, the carbon blades on the Ultimates are rigidly mounted (unlike the Formulas), which means that you can break them in a fall (I did)...

    All in all, I would not recommend these brakes to anyone riding agressively or weighing more than 140 lbs.

    Jerome
    To second that, I had a set of Ultimates and I could not get them to behave. They were noisy, would not stay adjusted properly, and would lose power during an XC race. I tried different pads, rotors, bleeding, different DOT fluid, everything under the sun, and with no luck. The pain and lack of performance was not worth the money, so I sold them and went with what I should have bought the first time, but didn't because I didn't think they would be worth the price premium: Formula Oro Puros. I was so wrong. The Formulas are perfect, and so worth the money.

  12. #12
    Come on, dare me!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AggieXCRacer
    To second that, I had a set of Ultimates and I could not get them to behave. They were noisy, would not stay adjusted properly, and would lose power during an XC race. I tried different pads, rotors, bleeding, different DOT fluid, everything under the sun, and with no luck. The pain and lack of performance was not worth the money, so I sold them and went with what I should have bought the first time, but didn't because I didn't think they would be worth the price premium: Formula Oro Puros. I was so wrong. The Formulas are perfect, and so worth the money.
    Same thing : Oro Puro 1st, Marta 2nd, Juicy Ultimates 3rd...

    Jerome

  13. #13
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    We build a sub 25lb Trance X2 and went with the Juicy Ultimate Carbons. They are amazing brakes, from looks to performance. They have all the features you could need, a long with some amazing stopping power.

    Avid Ultimate Brakes + Weight
    www.garabaghi.com
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    Reviews by riders.

    Hifi => Ex 9. Thank you warranty.

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