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  1. #1
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    Help! What brakes to buy? Juicy vs Marta vs Deore

    I am putting together a new bike and am trying to decide what brakes to use. Here are the specs: Klein Palomino, Fox Float R, Rolf Dolomite disc.

    Here is what I can come up with: Both the Magura Marta's and the Avid Juicy's can be had for about $300.00, but both seem to have mixed reviews. The Avids seem to have some caliper hitting spokes problems, and the Marta's some sticky pistons. I was also considering the Shimano Deore BR-M555 brakes (with a lighter rotor), and could get these for between $150.00 and $200.00. Also, the '04 Magura Julies could be had for $160.00. Or maybe the new XT discs, but they will come out to at least $300.00 also.

    I guess it comes down to price vs. weight. I guess I am willing to pay $300.00 for the brakes, but do not want to have to fiddle with them and endure problems for lighter weight.

    BTW, I had Hayes for the last 3 years on my last bike, and they were absolutely maintenence free. Once they were set up, I did not have to touch them for 3 years! That is the kind of reliability I want. BUT I do now want Hayes anymore, As I understand their reliability is not what it used to be.

    Thanks for any opinions and advice!

    Mark
    Last edited by bikeny; 03-23-2004 at 01:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Fat Boy Deluxe
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    I've got the Avid Juicy 7's right now on my Surly 1x1 and they rock. It's my first time using discs and it's a huge jump for me. I installed them myself when I built up the bike and it was really easy (coming from someone who has never installed disc brakes before).

    I do agree that things look really tight though. There might be 2mm between the caliper and spokes, kind of scary looking, but I haven't had a problem yet. And the caliper mounting screw actually touched the rotor if you really cranked it in there, so I had to back it off and screw it back in again, but not so hard.

    Raced on Sunday and they were the best working part of the bike!

    DT

  3. #3
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    I chose the Juicy

    and ho am I glad I did...

    I had old XT 2000 hydraulic and the Juicy's are soooo nice. It took me about 5 minutes to set them up. No rub, no messing around with small spacers,... I can't say much about their performance yet because my bike is not completely built yet but as far as setup is concerned, they Juicy won me over and even if performance a slightly less then my old XT, the setup would out weigh the difference. By the way, I have Crossmax XL and there is absolutely no rub on the spokes. I think the problems with rubbing are coming from King hubs...

    Hope this feedback helps.

    Cheers.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny
    I am putting together a new bike and am trying to decide what brakes to use. Here are the specs: Klein Palomino, Fox Float R, Rolf Dolomite disc.

    Here is what I can come up with: Both the Magura Marta's and the Avid Juicy's can be had for about $300.00, but both seem to have mixed reviews. The Avids seem to have some caliper hitting spokes problems, and the Marta's some sticky pistons. I was also considering the Shimano Deore BR-M555 brakes (with a lighter rotor), and could get these for between $150.00 and $200.00. Also, the '04 Magura Julies could be had for $160.00. Or maybe the new XT discs, but they will come out to at least $300.00 also.

    I guess it comes down to price vs. weight. I guess I am willing to pay $300.00 for the brakes, but do not want to have to fiddle with them and endure problems for lighter weight.

    BTW, I had Hayes for the last 3 years on my last bike, and they were absolutely maintenence free. Once they were set up, I did not have to touch them for 3 years! That is the kind of reliability I want. BUT I do now want Hayes anymore, As I understand their reliability is not what it used to be.

    Thanks for any opinions and advice!

    Mark

  4. #4
    Fat Boy Deluxe
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    Quote Originally Posted by BanzaiRider
    I think the problems with rubbing are coming from King hubs....

    Yea, forgot to mention that. I'm running King hubs, DT SuperComp spokes, and DT Swiss XR4.1d rim. So I fall into that close to rubbing category, ha. But again, it hasn't been a problem.

    DT

  5. #5
    Frequent Crasher
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    For the money M555's are a great deal. Wish I could get some more, but I couldn't so I just got some '03 Louise FR's off Ebay. They look great and I will soon have them installed.
    SB

  6. #6
    Weekend Warrior
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    Deore 555's are great.

    Having tried several different disc brakes (Hayes, Hope, Avid and XT) over the past 5 years I can honestly say that the deore 555 disc's are suprisingly great. They came stock on my bike and in the beginning I felt they were a weak point so I planned on changing them when I saved up more money, but as time went on I ended up not having to.

  7. #7
    simply me
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    Food for thought...

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny
    I am putting together a new bike and am trying to decide what brakes to use. Here are the specs: Klein Palomino, Fox Float R, Rolf Dolomite disc.
    Have you thought about the hope mono mini's? Running a set at the moment, great spoke / caliper clearance compared with other brakes I have tried (XT & Formula). They are ligher than the Juicey's are beautifully CNC'd, have split perch clamps and with the 160/140 or 180/160 front/rear combos you use the same caliper front and rear with no adapters. They are also available with up to 200mm rotors and use regular DOT fluid.

  8. #8
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    Hope

    I second the Hope Mini's. I have the m4's myself.

    I can't talk about the Juicy's but they would still be my second choice. Not sure about hayes, but hear they are very grabby.

    Magura is great except for the levers, friend of mine broke 2 in 2 months. One was not even his fault, the bike mechanic said it was faulty. I believe the cast aluminum is weak.

    Stay the "F" away from Formula, biggest POS I have ever used.

    One of the reasons I also like Hope is that their levers are CNC'd, much stronger than the other brands.

    Later Mon.

  9. #9
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    Thanks!

    Thanks for all of the replies. I wasn't really considering the Hopes because I thought they were too expensive, but after some investigating, it looks like I could get the Mini Mono for about $320.00. I guess now I have to decide if I want to spend the money on a top of the line brakeset (Hope, Juicy, Marta), or spend half the money on an entry level (M555 or Julie).

    Decisions, decisions!!

    Thanks again,
    Mark

  10. #10
    simply me
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny
    Thanks for all of the replies. I wasn't really considering the Hopes because I thought they were too expensive, but after some investigating, it looks like I could get the Mini Mono for about $320.00. I guess now I have to decide if I want to spend the money on a top of the line brakeset (Hope, Juicy, Marta), or spend half the money on an entry level (M555 or Julie).

    Decisions, decisions!!

    Thanks again,
    Mark
    Even less here;

    http://aebike.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=30&SKU=BR1724
    http://aebike.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=30&SKU=BR1728

  11. #11
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon
    Stay the "F" away from Formula, biggest POS I have ever used.

    That's weird. Formula B4SL is equal the the best disc I ever had - sheer perfection. What problems did you have?
    Mike The Bike's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

  12. #12
    -> SickLines.com <-
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    the only beef i have with the formulas are the levers. They feel great, but they also seem like they could snap/bend easily as the lever wasn't nearly as reinforced as other brakes. not sure as i never crashed on them

  13. #13
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    Formula Problems.....

    I don't know where to start......from the beginning they:

    1. Shipped the wrong (2) adapters for the discs and I had to buy new ones from Thorsten.

    2. The plastic parts on the levers are easy to strip.

    3. Darn thing, after 2 rides it started getting air into the system. I lost count as to the amout of times I bled it. Ended up buying 2 new seals for the master cylinder and that seemed to have fixed it.

    4. Spent tons of money on a mountain bike trip only to have the damn thng fail on the second day. Bike shop charge dme a ton of money to rebleed it and sure enough it goes soft the next day.

    5. Things finally start working for more than 2 rides and I decide to take it on a long downhill ride. 2 miles into a 7 mile downhill, the fluid expands and locks up the brakes COMPLETELY. I have to sit there and watch my freinds ride away while I wait for the brakes to release.

    7. Last week the brakes are rubbing slightly and I try to tune it while on the ride...guess what ?? Damn thing cracks 3 miles from the trail head.

    Not all of the problems I encountered were 100% Formulas' fault. However, the ONLY thing that ever gives problems are the brakes. I finally said to hell with it and bought a set of Hope M4's. I just love the strength and feel of the CNC'd levers and I have not experienced any pump up on the downhills.

  14. #14
    Sublime Absurdity
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    I chose the Martas over the Juicy 7s. Mostly because they are a little lighter and they don't use toxic fluid. My bud has the 7s and the ease of adjustment is a big plus...
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  15. #15
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    New question here.

    I'll just ask this openly,

    Aren't those Hope Mono Mini's TOO SMALL AND LIGHT for anything other than a light rider on a gentle course? Are the enlarged rotors enough to combat overheating of the teeny little resevoir?

  16. #16
    simply me
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBasil
    I'll just ask this openly,

    Aren't those Hope Mono Mini's TOO SMALL AND LIGHT for anything other than a light rider on a gentle course? Are the enlarged rotors enough to combat overheating of the teeny little resevoir?
    Ask me again after the first couple of races in the season and I'll let you know! JRA they feel great.

    Want a bigger caliper and more power go for the 4 or 6 piston versions.

  17. #17
    formerly Giantxc
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    Mini v. Juicy

    I have the Hope Mini's (not the mono mini) on my hardtail and the Juicy 7s on my rigid SS and in terms of power and feel they are very comparable (with the Juicy adjusted to its most powerful setting).

    The Juicy's caliper is huge and gets much closer to the spokes than the Mini's but it hasn't caused me any problems even in some rather muddy conditions last weekend, nor have I had the rotor problems some others have complained about.

    The Hope Mini's tend to be a bit louder and seem to come out of adjustment more frequently, but I suspect the later has more to do with the Manitou post mounts they're mounted on than the brakes theselves. Also the Mini has been going pretty cheap lately (down to about $130 vs. $175-$180 for the Juicy).

    Either way, I don't think you could go wrong.

  18. #18
    mmm, carbon
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    I agree with the general sentiment regarding the Formula brakes. I used the B4 Golds for about a year and hated them from the start. The levers are horrible. A really awkward, clumsy design.

    I'm running the Juicy 7s now, and they do all I want in a brake. I haven't had any caliper hitting spoke issues, but I have to admit they are very close. The stock pads on the 7s are too hard, but that's easy to fix. I haven't tried the Minis or Martas so I can't comment.

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