Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: toad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    461

    Hayes shningggg!

    I just installed a set of Hayes Mag brakes on my FS with a zoke Z.1 QR 20, 8 inch front and 6 inch rear. The rear brake is great, no prob. However, no matter what I do, I can't get rid of small amount of rub (shninggg) on the front disc that occurs only during rocky terrain and when I am riding aggressively. I have bled, re-bled, re-re-bled, pushed the calipers back in, re-centered the caliper a thousand times, tightened the springs that hold in the pads, tightened my hub, and basically done everthing I can think of. Is this noise common, or normal with 8 inch hayes? Has anyone else successfuly remedied this problem? -Todd

  2. #2
    Are you talking to me?
    Reputation: damion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    3,884

    Man, I hope someone comes up with a good one.

    You and I are in the same boat. Great description of the sound, by the way. I gave up on trying to rid myself of that noise, and rarely notice it now. I do have one buddy with v's that the sound drives up a wall. That alone is worth letting the sound hang around. My setup is Hayes mags, 8"f/6"r on Gemini w/ Lefty Max TPC+.

  3. #3
    DSR
    DSR is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,056
    I had the same situation, but wasn't running a QR20, just standard QR (Z1). Drove me nuts. Could get it all lined up and clean for a few rides and then it would come back with a vengeance! It really bothered me... alot. So I recently switched to Avids. My guess is that the 8" rotors are just more prone to getting pulled out of true. And not necessarily just under hard braking. For example, I was just recently riding rub-free and just tapped the front brake and then suddenly it was zing-zing-zing... The Avids shouldn't help this at all, but if the zinging kicks in at least I have the option to dial em out a bit and sacrifice some modulation for peace and quiet! That's the thought at least. Good luck. S

  4. #4
    Still chuggin' along
    Reputation: kpicha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    818
    Have you checked to see if the rotor needs truing? I was rummaging through the Disc brake FAQ for a different issue I'm having and I came across this and made me think of your issue. The FAQ is in the upper right corner of this page. Good Luck1

    What can I do with warped rotors?
    There are NO rotors that are dead flat and they can all be trued up. As rotors are a thin stamped steel product they all tend to be somewhat warped - some more or less than others. But warpage is curable so don't freak out. Warpage that causes brake drag or "zinnnggggg" needs to be fixed and luckily that's quite easy. I true up ALL my rotors and can usually do them in two minutes. They don't have to be dead-on but just fairly close. Grab a small adjustable wrench and a piece of something white.

    Truing the rotors - Make sure you have lots of light so you can see well. Lay the piece of white paper or plastic below the bike on the floor. Now stand where you can look through the caliper and reposition the paper on the floor so the white background is visible through the caliper when viewed between rotor and pad. The light colored background lets you see what the rotor is doing inside the caliper when you spin the wheel.
    When you're all set up, slowly spin the wheel and look for spots on the rotor which are out of true and touch a pad on one side or the other. When you find a spot which rubs or nearly rubs, rotate the rotor back out of the caliper 90 - 180 degrees, place the adjustable wrench on the rotor with the jaws just open wide enough to grasp the rotor, and verrrrry gently bend the rotor in the opposite direction.
    A little movement goes a very long way here. Apply the brake lever after every pry to re-set any pad that has got squished back. Don't tweak hard or you will make things worse than they were. Don't forget - more is NOT better! Keep doing this until the rotor runs fairly straight and you can see and hear that it is not hitting the pads.


    This is normally a quick job but I'll admit some have taken me a 1/2 hr or so to true.

    If you touch the rotor with fingers then clean it with isopropyl alcohol before you ride. Any oil or grease, yes even body oils, is not a good thing.


  5. #5
    Crank monkey
    Reputation: Smytty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    129

    It may be some play in your fork.

    If it's not the brakes themselves. I had a similar problem with my Avid mechs on a Manitou Black. The fork started to develop some play in the bushings, so whenever I went around a corner, there was enough play to make the front rotor zing. I just got the fork back today, so I haven't had a chance to ride it and make sure this minor annoyance is gone. Just a suggestion. It may or may not work.

    BTW, thanks Manitou, for overhauling my fork and only charging me for shipping. I not sure if that was the plan or not, but hey, free overhaul.
    Cheers,
    Smytty

  6. #6
    Still chuggin' along
    Reputation: kpicha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    818
    Well, hey, that's good to know! I've got a Manitou Black also, that i just upped the travel on so I'll keep that in mind if I get the zzzzinnnngg

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: toad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    461
    I just got off the phone with a tech at hayes, and he said there may be too much oil in the system. He suggested setting the bike up as if you are going to bleed it, open the bleed screw, and then push the pistons back in, then close the system. Next, do the business card trick, however, don't sqeeze too hard oh the levers. This sounds like it may work. So, I will give it a try tonight and post my re****s. -T

  8. #8
    Still chuggin' along
    Reputation: kpicha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    818
    So, did you get to try it out yet? How did it go?

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: toad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    461
    Been pretty busy. Worked on it last night, gonna go fer a ride tonight. hopefully it will be shninggg free. -t

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: toad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    461
    Well, I performed the fix that Hayes suggested, (i.e. opening the system, pushing the pistons in to remove some of the oil, then recentering with business card trick). And I am happy to say that it REDUCED the schninngg by about 50-60%. Also, after messing around with the QR20 quick release then going on a ride yesterday, somehow I had no schnningg whatsoever. But, I chalk that up to a freek thing, because it is back again, but still 50-60% less than before I performed the "fix". The only downside is that the levers pull a little closer to the bars, but it is well worth it. So, if the schniingg is driving you nuts, give this a try. -t

  11. #11
    Baliw
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    203
    Quote Originally Posted by toad
    Well, I performed the fix that Hayes suggested, (i.e. opening the system, pushing the pistons in to remove some of the oil, then recentering with business card trick). And I am happy to say that it REDUCED the schninngg by about 50-60%. Also, after messing around with the QR20 quick release then going on a ride yesterday, somehow I had no schnningg whatsoever. But, I chalk that up to a freek thing, because it is back again, but still 50-60% less than before I performed the "fix". The only downside is that the levers pull a little closer to the bars, but it is well worth it. So, if the schniingg is driving you nuts, give this a try. -t
    I think the noise reduction happened only because you increased the clearance between the pads and rotor when you used the ol' business card trick. The fact that your levers now go a little closer to your grips proves that.

    I think the reason the noise changed when changing the tightness of your bolt-on is because of the rotor changing its distance from the pads. You can observe this by just barely tightening your skewer and looking at the gaps between the rotor and the pads. Then, tighten the skewer by a significant amount and look at the gaps again; they will be different because the rotor gets pulled to one side as the hub is compressed.

    I don't know that you can actually have too much oil in the system; once you fill the reservoir, you can't press any more oil in there since oil is not compressible.

    I think the other poster is more on the money; play in your fork might be the culprit. An interesting test is if you can find a stretch of road that you can execute a tight turn in, and listen if the sound comes back. It'll be a pain to put the pads in their original noisy position for this test, though.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    39
    first off, is it making the noise when going straight coasting, or only when you are sprinting (ie rocking the bike side to side)? if when sprinting it is likely flex in the fork, and something you arent going to get rid of if the system is otherwise working properly. the only ways to get rid of the sound are to stiffen the fork and/or to increase the tolerance between the pad and disk, and as someone already mentioned, this makes the lever go further to the bar (unless you wear the pads and rotor thinner, which i would try to avoid merely for the sake of a harmless noise)

    the reason it is more prevailant with 8 inch rotors is for a given amount of fork/hub/stancion flex, the outer edge of the brake rotor will travel further toward one of the pads, making it more likely to create a sound, since the pad to rotor tolerance is the same as in a 6 inch brake.

    my brand new bike with dirtjumper 2, (a very stiff fork. 20mm through, steel 32mm stancions) and 8 inch rotors does this and it doesnt bother me, because when the bike's just coasting it doesnt drag or make noise at all.

    if you can feel it slowing you down, then worry about it.. otherwise, consider it a good thing you have disks, and something that comes with the territory of such great stopping power.

    fwiw, what the hayes tech guy told you to do is just a bandaid, and by no means the proper answer to the question.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: toad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    461

    Thanks for all the replys!

    Ikea, that was part of my original question, Is this noise a normal occurence with 8 inch disc brakes. So, it seems that it is. I seriously doubt that it is due to problems with my fork as it is also a brand new zoke, although in the Z.1 FR QR 20 style. I could not be happier with that fork. It seems much more durable than some other brands I have used. I love the stopping power of the brakes so much, and they very consistent and smooth. I find myself trying to ride nose wheelies all the time now. Anyways, thanks for all the help. -t

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    36

    Thanks

    Toad - Thanks for making it clear that this sound is fairly common. I have a new 2005 Gary Fisher Cake 3 Deluxe with an 8" front rotor, and I've become very familiar with adjusting the front caliper, but with little success. My noise seems to only occur when I start coasting, and never when working or simply spinning the wheel. I've used the white paper trick and the rotor seems perfect, with the clearances between the rotor and pads constant. Another respondent mentioned the possibility of this being caused by fork flex, and I suspect he's right. My Manitou Black Elite fork is brand new, and appears to be tight, but nevertheless the sound frequently shows up when the bike is under little or no stress. I'm wondering if there is some way of insulating the rotor to deaden this noise; like touching a glass or tuning fork will stop it's ringing. The good news seems to be that this is fairly common and not a serious problem, only annoying.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-26-2004, 08:07 PM
  2. Hayes malfunction, bleed does not fix
    By Soloracer in forum Brake Time
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-25-2004, 06:35 PM
  3. Hayes w/ Klein 01' and Black 02'
    By wyrm in forum Brake Time
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-23-2004, 03:33 PM
  4. Hope Mini v. Hayes HFX-9 v. avid cable?
    By MrXC in forum Brake Time
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-21-2004, 05:18 PM
  5. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-20-2004, 02:20 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •