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  1. #1
    Trail Rider
    Reputation: Quattro's Avatar
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    Hayes problem (HELP!)

    I have a set of Hayes Comp(generation 1) brakes. It has the composite(plastic) lever base. I will tell you everything I have done and the problem.
    I shortened the rear line. I used a brass compression fitting(not the alumnum one) as Hayes says to use. Both my LBS and Hayes say the brass one should work. I have no leak in the system. I have bled the brake 10 times. I have removed the caliper from the mount and dropped it down in a straight line and bled it again. I have tapped it and moved the caliper around, in case there is an air bubble hiding in there somewhere. This is my first set of discs brakes. The front ones work excellent, but I tend to use the rear more(in steep DH switchbacks). When I really clamp down on the rear in steep DH switchbacks, the rear fades and the lever gets much closer to the bar. If I let off and clamp down, the lever seems to engage sooner, until I really clamp down again. It seems like I can pump it up. But it also seems like it is heat related. After everything cools down, the(lever) distance seems to return to the previous state,but the rear seems spongier than the front. I'm new to hydro discs, so I'm not sure what is happening.
    Is this brake fade, due to over heating, or is there air in the system?
    I'm going up to Big Bear to ride, and will certainly put the brakes to good use. Is this a problem or maybe I need a 8 in. rotor in the rear?
    I'm trying to use the front more, but the front seem to work properly.
    Thanks!

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: skywaybuzz's Avatar
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    I'm in the same boat, I can only assume I still have some air. Are you using a syringe? Try sucking fluid out of the caliper end awhile and see if any air bubbles come out.

  3. #3
    rolling in the greens
    Reputation: vermont's Avatar
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    sounds like air in line

    heat fade usually only happens with long fire road type down hills when you are on the brakes continually for 5 mins or more. In that case yes 8" rotors will help dissapate the heat better and give you more "modulation". i would call Hayes tell em they are going to the bar on downhills they should give you a RA# and they will match your shipping with a one day turn-around. If you 2 day em on monday chances are good you'll have em back friday or the following monday tottally refurbished.
    Good luck bro

  4. #4
    Are you talking to me?
    Reputation: damion's Avatar
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    zip tie it.

    Zip tie the lever to the bar overnight. (tight) This may help to force and air in the line all the way to the master cylinder.
    gfy

  5. #5
    Trail Rider
    Reputation: Quattro's Avatar
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    I think I figured out what the problem was...

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattro
    I have a set of Hayes Comp(generation 1) brakes. It has the composite(plastic) lever base. I will tell you everything I have done and the problem.
    I shortened the rear line. I used a brass compression fitting(not the alumnum one) as Hayes says to use. Both my LBS and Hayes say the brass one should work. I have no leak in the system. I have bled the brake 10 times. I have removed the caliper from the mount and dropped it down in a straight line and bled it again. I have tapped it and moved the caliper around, in case there is an air bubble hiding in there somewhere. This is my first set of discs brakes. The front ones work excellent, but I tend to use the rear more(in steep DH switchbacks). When I really clamp down on the rear in steep DH switchbacks, the rear fades and the lever gets much closer to the bar. If I let off and clamp down, the lever seems to engage sooner, until I really clamp down again. It seems like I can pump it up. But it also seems like it is heat related. After everything cools down, the(lever) distance seems to return to the previous state,but the rear seems spongier than the front. I'm new to hydro discs, so I'm not sure what is happening.
    Is this brake fade, due to over heating, or is there air in the system?
    I'm going up to Big Bear to ride, and will certainly put the brakes to good use. Is this a problem or maybe I need a 8 in. rotor in the rear?
    I'm trying to use the front more, but the front seem to work properly.
    Thanks!
    About 3 weeks ago I noticed this problem and also an annoying noise that sounded like a cable making noise in its stop, or a suspension pivot noise. I spent some time checking everything and trying to remember what symptoms were occuring. One other thing that was happening, was the pads were rubbing on the rotor sometimes, and the brakes were getting hard to setup without them rubbing after bleeding. It turns out the rear bearing in the suspension was failing and there was play in the rear end. I replaced the bearings and now the brakes feel more like the front. The Tracer bearings lasted 27 months before failing. I checked them all out and 3 others were getting a rough feel. I replaced 4 and ordered 4 from Intense for the rocker arm. I'll check it out and see if this was the problem(for sure).

  6. #6
    uofabill
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    Try this,

    With the wheel, rotor and pads removed, carefully pump the lever so that the pistons in your caliper come out some, not all the way. Then rebleed your system. This will allow you to get the max. amt. of fluid into the system. After you complete the bleed, press the pistons back in with a 10mm box end wrench or the plastic spacer that comes with the brake system. This should help you some.

  7. #7
    2003 Giant NRS 1
    Reputation: NRS1FREAK's Avatar
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    Don't ya just love bleeding brakes on a bike?! WTH? anyway, I'm not sure how to help you but it sounds like my situation is similar. If you search for my posts it will lead you to my threads and maybe help you out too. I took the "easy" way out and got it fixed at my LBS. Vermont said the same things in my threads but I took him up on it and they said if you've fooled around with it the probably won't honor the warrentie. Figures... Anyway, I got one quick question, how bad is hydraulic brake fluid for your body?? I didn't wear any "protection" so I have been soaking it up in my hands. whoo hoo...

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 006_007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRS1FREAK
    , I got one quick question, how bad is hydraulic brake fluid for your body?? I didn't wear any "protection" so I have been soaking it up in my hands. whoo hoo...

    It generally harmless to us, more of a problem to paint as it will blister/peel it away. Just wash your hands with soap after (A shower at the end of the day works as well) and if you want to maintain your smooth soft skin on your hands apply a bit of hand lotion afterwards to re-moisturize

  9. #9
    rolling in the greens
    Reputation: vermont's Avatar
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    totall BS

    Quote Originally Posted by NRS1FREAK
    Don't ya just love bleeding brakes on a bike?! WTH? anyway, I'm not sure how to help you but it sounds like my situation is similar. If you search for my posts it will lead you to my threads and maybe help you out too. I took the "easy" way out and got it fixed at my LBS. Vermont said the same things in my threads but I took him up on it and they said if you've fooled around with it the probably won't honor the warrentie. Figures... Anyway, I got one quick question, how bad is hydraulic brake fluid for your body?? I didn't wear any "protection" so I have been soaking it up in my hands. whoo hoo...
    next time give them as little detail as possible...its broke...this is what it is or isn't doing...fix it for me should be the extent of the conversation...just like talking to the 5-O's never volunteer information or self-incriminate.
    Keith Bontrager: "Strong, light, cheap pick any two."

    "Something strong and light ain't gonna be cheap. -That's what I call bling.

    And cheap and strong ain't gonna be light. -That ain't bling."
    -----[SIZE=3]locoman
    [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=2]"That said, I never deal with bike shops for the same reasons. I am a ebay and mail order whore and I don't care"[/SIZE] -----[SIZE=3]yetisurly[/SIZE]

  10. #10
    Trail Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by uofabill
    With the wheel, rotor and pads removed, carefully pump the lever so that the pistons in your caliper come out some, not all the way. Then rebleed your system. This will allow you to get the max. amt. of fluid into the system. After you complete the bleed, press the pistons back in with a 10mm box end wrench or the plastic spacer that comes with the brake system. This should help you some.
    I'll try that if I have to bleed them again. After changing the bearings, I had to readjust the calipers and they lined up great(like they used to). The feel was firm again. I'll try them out in the morning. I called Hayes and verified I was bleeding them properly. I did notice that in the bleeding process, it states that I should pump the lever while squeezing the bottle. I notice the fluid in the discharge tube at the lever migrating back into the lever. When using a short piece of tube, connected to the discharge bottle(captures the excess fluid), it draws air into the lever. I make sure to squeeze the bottle again, until fluid only is coming out. I am not sure why they want you to pump the levers. Thanks!

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