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  1. #401
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    The RSC kit is suddenly out of stock everywhere, I had it in my basket at two different places this morning! :/
    Rolling on 29", 650b, 8.3" and 23mm

  2. #402
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    I've sanded down a few pistons now that I found this thread, and getting the seals off without damaging has been the only annoying part. I need batteries for my digital caliper, so I have been sanding them until I can drop them in the lever and they move freely again, this might be a bit more than needed, but it seems like the seals really center the piston, we just need to make sure its not contacting the bore. My 2016 level tlm still needed this, I want to order a new set to have, but want to make sure I can an updated version.

    The new level pin to hold the lever on is also a PITA to center and re-press into place, the guide style with the rocker lines up easier, I assume the change was to save a few grams.
    5010 v1

  3. #403
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    I love how SRAM fixed this last spring, but yet the guides that came on my son's new bike are having the issue. I wish he like the levers on Maguras so I could throw the guides in the trash where they belong.


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  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbqmike View Post
    I assume the change was to save a few grams.
    To save a few something..

  5. #405
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    I got my sets back, RS and RSC's, and even though they've been serviced at SRAM command, there ain't no way they're going back on any of my mountain bikes. I might put them back on the fatbikes that only see snow and non-summer use, so at least there will be frozen water around to get them to work again WHEN they crap the bed again...which they will.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  6. #406
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    Just came back from riding in 95 degree heat in Ashland Oregon. No problems with my black RSC's locking up which were bought straight from the factory Nov. 2016. Have to also mention that the modulation on these brakes is incredible even with a 200mm rotor up front.
    I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure.

  7. #407
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    It's a combination of the piston increasing in size after long-term exposure to brake fluid and temperature. Mine were perfectly fine in hot temps when new. Now they're locked up solid at room temp.

  8. #408
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    You must have go the of style pistons.
    I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure.

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by car_nut View Post
    It's a combination of the piston increasing in size after long-term exposure to brake fluid and temperature. Mine were perfectly fine in hot temps when new. Now they're locked up solid at room temp.
    Pretty much what I think was happening with mine. They worked great all last year, the best MTB brakes I've ever experienced. I put the bike in the basement for the winter and when I took it out in the spring both brakes felt "dead". I don't know how else to describe it. The levers felt like squeezing wood. The brakes still "worked" but they had no feel and would basically just lock up.

    I don't think it's JUST heat that causes the issue. I do think that plastic piston isn't liking long term exposure to brake fluids.

    ac

  10. #410
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    This happened to me on a set of guide ultimates. I bought the bike second-hand. LBS was able to warranty and get a new set of levers installed no questions asked.

  11. #411
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    I got my bike back after a month. LBS said SRAM is really dragging ass getting replacement parts to him, so he claims he put a set of "take-off" Guide R that they had at the shop on it to get me riding. The bike originally came with Guide RS components which have some fancy linkage that's supposed to reduce take-up in the lever before the pads actuate. I'm not really clear if he plans to let me ride these until SRAM wakes up, or if he just plans on keeping the "better" brakes when they come in.

    I guess time will tell, but at least I'm back to riding?

    ac

  12. #412
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    I don't think we can help you there, avc; best to clarify with your LBS, eh?

  13. #413
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    The DB5s on my 2016 Specialized Fuse (bought in March of 2017) are back to the shop for the 2nd time. The first time one of the levers locked up because the reach adjust screw broke off inside and jammed. This time is more like the issues described here - hot day, pulled the bike out of the garage, rear lever went from feeling a bit odd to being fully jammed over a few minutes.

    Limped it to the shop, and they are replacing both levers under warranty. Not terribly impressed yet, since they implied that SRAM was replacing my brakes as a favor (rather than an obligation) and that somehow lack of maintenance was to blame (even though I had only owned the bike for 4 months, most of which I was out of town and not riding it). I'll see how they do, and hopefully the new levers being shipped now solve the problem.

  14. #414
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    I'm also having major heat problems with my SRAM Guide RS brakes. My Guide RS's were purchased in August 2015 with my new 2016 model Stumpjumper. I never had problems with these brakes before because I usually ride in the early morning or late afternoon in Santa Cruz (weather is rarely over 75F during those times). I recently started noticing the sticky leaver feel on the front brake when I rode during the day ~80-85F. Then I rode in Jacksonville and Ashland Oregon last week >90F. The brakes were terrible in the heat! In the morning the brakes were okay but by 11AM (>90F), the front was completely locked and the rear was sticking. Both brakes would completely lock up in direct sunlight and when transporting the bike on the car rack in 95F heat. I had to ice the reservoirs down to get the levers to move again. I really hope my LBS can do a warrantee repair. If not, I'm ditching the Guides for XT's.

  15. #415
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    Bought a lightly used bike w/ Guide R's on board.

    The rear left brake is working a treat...

    The right front is working, but on closer inspection - there's something funky going on!?

    One set of pistons are stuck in the central position. The other side/pistons are moving in/out as they should.

    After reading many anecdotal accounts of Guide brakes locking up... I don't want to take an OTB trip to A&E!

    Could my lbs remedy the issue?

    Or, should I just save my skin/time etc & get a new front brake?

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  16. #416
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    1) wrong thread

    2) better go to your LBS, you sound like someone with two left hands

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by targnik View Post
    I don't want to take an OTB trip to A&E!
    Not very likely. Imagine riding with the brakes on at all times, that's what happens.

  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Not very likely. Imagine riding with the brakes on at all times, that's what happens.
    Contradict yourself much?

    Ignored/blocked the other troll

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  19. #419
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    Poor SRAM, tried so hard to make good brakes and erase the nightmares of the Avid days, and look. We get Guides in our shops ALL THE TIME with sticking levers.
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  20. #420
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    Prediction: Guide brakes will be to SRAM what airbags are to Takata.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe Ped View Post
    Prediction: Guide brakes will be to SRAM what airbags are to Takata.
    I doubt it, Sram would have to step up and do the right thing and recall them. Right now they are just sitting back playing stupid and waiting for people to have a problem,

    Reactive instead of proactive- sign of a shitty company to me.
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  22. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I doubt it, Sram would have to step up and do the right thing and recall them. Right now they are just sitting back playing stupid and waiting for people to have a problem,

    Reactive instead of proactive- sign of a shitty company to me.
    I mean that the airbag problem took Takata into bankruptcy; if the CPSC gets involved and makes SRAM recall every hydraulic brake (including Avid) they ever made it could be a financial disaster for them. From my perspective the Guide brake problem is a QC problem; I know some Avids are bad too. "When did this start?" is the million-dollar question.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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  23. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by eicca View Post
    Poor SRAM, tried so hard to make good brakes and erase the nightmares of the Avid days, and look. We get Guides in our shops ALL THE TIME with sticking levers.
    Says a crackandfail rider LOL

  24. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by eicca View Post
    Poor SRAM, tried so hard to make good brakes and erase the nightmares of the Avid days, and look. We get Guides in our shops ALL THE TIME with sticking levers.
    agreed. When I got my new bike with Sram Guides 2014 the mechanic called me stupid for keeping them but I trusted Sram to make a clean cut and abandon the Avid moniker. One year later my brake got stuck during holiday...

    That being said the exchanged Guides run flawlessly since then and are still my favorite brakes...

  25. #425
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    Question is, when Sram + Brakes = Avid + Brakes what name to they go with then? Maybe Rockshox brakes?
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  26. #426
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    Just call them "AVD"

    looser companies likes TRP usually have a 3 letter brand name, their employees probably can't remember a longer one

  27. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    Says a crackandfail rider LOL

    Ok, now let's see you back up your point.
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  28. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by phidauex View Post
    The DB5s on my 2016 Specialized Fuse (bought in March of 2017) are back to the shop for the 2nd time. The first time one of the levers locked up because the reach adjust screw broke off inside and jammed. This time is more like the issues described here - hot day, pulled the bike out of the garage, rear lever went from feeling a bit odd to being fully jammed over a few minutes.

    Limped it to the shop, and they are replacing both levers under warranty. Not terribly impressed yet, since they implied that SRAM was replacing my brakes as a favor (rather than an obligation) and that somehow lack of maintenance was to blame (even though I had only owned the bike for 4 months, most of which I was out of town and not riding it). I'll see how they do, and hopefully the new levers being shipped now solve the problem.
    Update to my situation here - the shop replaced the brakes with more DB5s. I pushed for another brake, but they wouldn't give me anything else unless I straight up paid for an "upgrade".

    New brakes work fine, so far one really hot day riding without issues. I was told that the problem was in the master cylinder bore, and that it was being bored too tight at the previous manufacturer, and that the problem is now resolved across the board. Hopefully that is true! I'll keep riding in the meantime - aside from reliability, I like the DB5 modulation and feel, and there seems to be plenty of power.

  29. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by phidauex View Post
    Update to my situation here - the shop replaced the brakes with more DB5s. I pushed for another brake, but they wouldn't give me anything else unless I straight up paid for an "upgrade".

    New brakes work fine, so far one really hot day riding without issues. I was told that the problem was in the master cylinder bore, and that it was being bored too tight at the previous manufacturer, and that the problem is now resolved across the board. Hopefully that is true! I'll keep riding in the meantime - aside from reliability, I like the DB5 modulation and feel, and there seems to be plenty of power.
    It's good to know your new brakes worked in some hot weather. I'm waiting to hear back from my LBS about my warranty replacement.

  30. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by phidauex View Post
    Update to my situation here - the shop replaced the brakes with more DB5s. I pushed for another brake, but they wouldn't give me anything else unless I straight up paid for an "upgrade".

    New brakes work fine, so far one really hot day riding without issues. I was told that the problem was in the master cylinder bore, and that it was being bored too tight at the previous manufacturer, and that the problem is now resolved across the board. Hopefully that is true! I'll keep riding in the meantime - aside from reliability, I like the DB5 modulation and feel, and there seems to be plenty of power.
    It's a common theme around my locale to blame the customer for everything and pretend like any warranty of a defective part is a gift. I wonder how much of these experiences are really SRAM and how many are LBS BS. The things are defective, the warranty issue should be known and instant at this point.

  31. #431
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    I just purchased a brand new 2018 Hightower LT bike with SRAM Guide Brakes on them...bike arrives a few days ago but isn't "ready" because the SRAM Guide Brakes are getting sent back already on warranty. LBS claims they have had to do this on multiple bikes over just the past month alone.

    WOW.

    Shoulda got the bike with Shimano components.

  32. #432
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    SRAM BRAKES / GUIDE & LEVEL SLOW LEVER RETURN
    We are aware that some Guide and Level brakes have not achieved the durability levels SRAM and our customers expect. We designed Guide and Level brakes as best-in-class products that should function flawlessly and feel smooth every time you ride them. Anything less than this is unacceptable.
    There are reports that some brakes can develop a sluggish lever feel over time. The rate of this performance degradation varies based on usage and is increased by heat and humidity. We completed a re-engineering of the master piston and main seal to eliminate the possibility of interference. These design changes began production on July 3, 2017. And we are continually improving our design and manufacturing quality systems to deliver the best product possible.
    If you feel that your properly installed and serviced SRAM brakes are performing poorly, we ask that you please contact your dealer to arrange an evaluation with their local SRAM service center, so that we can get you the appropriate replacement parts and service.
    The entire SRAM family is passionate about riding bikes, and we know that you value your riding time as much as we value ours. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this issue might cause you. All of us at SRAM are dedicated to doing whatever it takes to get your SRAM brakes feeling and working perfectly.
    We are continually improving our design and manufacturing quality systems to deliver the best product possible.
    Thank you for being a SRAM rider.

    Ron Ritzler
    Vice President of product - components

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  33. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by apuking View Post
    SRAM BRAKES / GUIDE & LEVEL SLOW LEVER RETURN
    We are aware that some Guide and Level brakes have not achieved the durability levels SRAM and our customers expect. We designed Guide and Level brakes as best-in-class products that should function flawlessly and feel smooth every time you ride them. Anything less than this is unacceptable.
    There are reports that some brakes can develop a sluggish lever feel over time. The rate of this performance degradation varies based on usage and is increased by heat and humidity. We completed a re-engineering of the master piston and main seal to eliminate the possibility of interference. These design changes began production on July 3, 2017. And we are continually improving our design and manufacturing quality systems to deliver the best product possible.
    If you feel that your properly installed and serviced SRAM brakes are performing poorly, we ask that you please contact your dealer to arrange an evaluation with their local SRAM service center, so that we can get you the appropriate replacement parts and service.
    The entire SRAM family is passionate about riding bikes, and we know that you value your riding time as much as we value ours. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this issue might cause you. All of us at SRAM are dedicated to doing whatever it takes to get your SRAM brakes feeling and working perfectly.
    We are continually improving our design and manufacturing quality systems to deliver the best product possible.
    Thank you for being a SRAM rider.

    Ron Ritzler
    Vice President of product - components

    SRAM.COM


























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    The design change began July 3, 2017??!! This issue has been known for at least 2 years! Way to get right on it! not

    Sounds like maybe a lawyer got involved and warned of a class-action suit or something to me...
    You can't buy happiness. But you can buy a bike. And that's pretty close.

  34. #434
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    My LBS confirmed that Sram will do a warranty replacement of my Guide RS's. I hope the replacements will be from the new batch. Glad to see Sram is finally stepping up.


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  35. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxidizer View Post
    My LBS confirmed that Sram will do a warranty replacement of my Guide RS's. I hope the replacements will be from the new batch. Glad to see Sram is finally stepping up. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Funny how standards have dropped to the point that allowing people to ride with defective brakes that could literally kill them, leave them paralyzed etc.. is stepping up.
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  36. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxidizer View Post
    My LBS confirmed that Sram will do a warranty replacement of my Guide RS's. I hope the replacements will be from the new batch. Glad to see Sram is finally stepping up.


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    If you'd read the whole thread you'd realize this isn't new or an isolated case.

  37. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    If you'd read the whole thread you'd realize this isn't new or an isolated case.
    I know this. Just passing along my experience and giving props to my LBS for their help.

  38. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxidizer View Post
    I know this. Just passing along my experience and giving props to my LBS for their help.
    Fair enough. Glad it worked out for you.

  39. #439
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    Picked up a new bike on a closeout deal (2015 model) that had been sitting in a box for almost 2 years. This listing said it was supposed to show up with some old avids, but it shipped with DB5's. Even at room temperature with zero wear/use the levers had zero rebound even after a bleed. This kind of confirms that the issue also occurs just by having the pistons sit in DOT5.1 juice for long enough.

    On the support side, my LBS called in the warranty for me and SRAM isn't just replacing the lever internals, instead the are replacing the entire set,, but since the DB5's are discontinued they are sending me a newer model as well. Not sure which model yet, but I am assuming they will be the equivalent Level's.

    The real question is whether or not I will get something from before or after those 7/3/2017 production changes..

    Kind of a bummer that I am writing this post instead of riding a bike, but kind of hard to complain about going from Avid Elixer 3's to DB5's to Level's without paying and I'm pretty happy with the SRAM warranty and their customer support.

  40. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by apuking View Post
    SRAM BRAKES / GUIDE & LEVEL SLOW LEVER RETURN
    We are aware that some Guide and Level brakes have not achieved the durability levels SRAM and our customers expect. We designed Guide and Level brakes as best-in-class products that should function flawlessly and feel smooth every time you ride them. Anything less than this is unacceptable.
    There are reports that some brakes can develop a sluggish lever feel over time. The rate of this performance degradation varies based on usage and is increased by heat and humidity. We completed a re-engineering of the master piston and main seal to eliminate the possibility of interference. These design changes began production on July 3, 2017. And we are continually improving our design and manufacturing quality systems to deliver the best product possible.
    If you feel that your properly installed and serviced SRAM brakes are performing poorly, we ask that you please contact your dealer to arrange an evaluation with their local SRAM service center, so that we can get you the appropriate replacement parts and service.
    The entire SRAM family is passionate about riding bikes, and we know that you value your riding time as much as we value ours. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this issue might cause you. All of us at SRAM are dedicated to doing whatever it takes to get your SRAM brakes feeling and working perfectly.
    We are continually improving our design and manufacturing quality systems to deliver the best product possible.
    Thank you for being a SRAM rider.

    Ron Ritzler
    Vice President of product - components

    SRAM.COM


























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    Could you please tell me the link to the original statement? It would help me with YT to get the brakes service under warranty.

    Thanks

  41. #441
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    It was just an E-Mail that a colleague was showing me. He works in a bike shop.
    He told me that every bike dealer who deals with SRAM got this E-Mail

  42. #442
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    SRAM is garbage. Had to replace 4 pairs of brand new 2017 SRAM Level Ultimates with XTs. Complete fail and no one should spec this garbage on their builds - the worst part is SRAM knowingly ships out unsafe gear - I do love my gold eagle stuff though. SRAM is rotten when it comes to brakes.
    Last edited by lucky73; 2 Days Ago at 06:13 AM.

  43. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by apuking View Post
    It was just an E-Mail that a colleague was showing me. He works in a bike shop.
    He told me that every bike dealer who deals with SRAM got this E-Mail
    Thanks a lot. YT has respond and I'm sending the brake to be service under warranty.

  44. #444
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    I had to send my RSC brakes back as they had a wandering bite point and slow lever return. Got a new set yesterday and put them on. We will see if they are any better. I had not sold the XT brakes these replaced so I had brakes to use for the two weeks it took for replacement. The XT felt stronger but have that ever changing bite point. I did a big descent on Friday on the new Sproat alpine trail here in Whistler. I think the total descent was around 10 km. I hated how the XT brakes pumped up and returned then didn't then did. Consistently inconsistent. That is why I got the Guide brakes in the first place. One more chance.

  45. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by someoldfart View Post
    I hated how the XT brakes pumped up and returned then didn't then did. Consistently inconsistent.
    I think people must use their brakes differently and expect different things from them. I understand what people dislike about XT/Deore brakes but it doesn't bother me. The levers are loose and rattly, compared to Hope etc anyway, and you've got that free play before anything happens but in use I don't even notice it.

    I never grab the brakes. Even when you need to brake hard they come on in slow-motion and force on the lever is increased until you get to the level of braking you want. Where the bite point is, I have no idea, or if it's different from the time before. With suitable technique you get the braking you want and they are utterly reliable so I'm happy. I've used Shimano brakes for a long time though so I can see how it might be hard to adapt if you're used to better modulating brakes.

  46. #446
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    I expect my brake levers to be the same distance from the grip as they were at the end the ride the day before. I don't expect the brakes levers to need a reach or pad contact adjustment every ride.

  47. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by someoldfart View Post
    I expect my brake levers to be the same distance from the grip as they were at the end the ride the day before. I don't expect the brakes levers to need a reach or pad contact adjustment every ride.
    Is that what you experienced with your XT brakes? If so that odd. I've never known that on mine. I never touch them. Once they're solidly bled you never need to do anything else. The pads on Shimano brakes reset every time the lever is released, or at least they should.

  48. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Is that what you experienced with your XT brakes? If so that odd. I've never known that on mine. I never touch them. Once they're solidly bled you never need to do anything else. The pads on Shimano brakes reset every time the lever is released, or at least they should.
    Yes. A previous pair didn't do it to the same extent nor did the XTR on another bike. My wife's are fine too. The discs on my cross bike are XT calipers and the DI2 levers and they are consistent. I have heard of a number of people with similar complaints about XT A
    and XTR brakes.

  49. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by someoldfart View Post
    I have heard of a number of people with similar complaints about XT and XTR brakes.
    Wonder what the cause is? I know Shimano had problems with the 8000-series brakes, is it that? They sorted it out but there must be loads of those iffy ones still in circulation.

  50. #450
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    No the older 785. Well into their third season, probably over 400 rides on them mostly on steep Whistler, Squamish and North Vancouver trails. It may be age related which was why I had retired them. Just finished a short ride on the replacement Guide brakes. So far so good. Time will tell.

  51. #451
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    It's weird how this devolves into "Shimano vs SRAM" - I'm always suspicious of anyone's judgment when they have extreme brand loyalty. How can you judge any product when you go into it with expectation of success or failure? My first set of hydros were Avid Elixirs and they seemed great until I rode XT 785 which had much better power and reliability. I've had a couple of sets of flawless Shimano XT 785 since then, but then had a set of XTR 9020 that had the terrible pump up problem. Warrantied them (yes Shimano accepted them for warranty for this problem). Replacements were no better. Switched to XT 8000 and pump up was still there. Mid 2016 I would go into my several LBSs and pull Shimano levers and most of them would pump up. Despite Shimano warrantying brakes for this problem and it being a safety issue (yes I've read reports of people crashing because of the pump up problem), I don't believe they never issued a statement about it like SRAM did. What's weird is that this varying bite point doesn't seem to bother some people. A new bike in 2016 came with Guide Ultimates and I was lucky enough to not have the piston failure despite lots of time in 100 degree temps. I like the feel of the Guides (yes, a personal preference) and wanted to switch my other bike from the faulty XTs but waited until this summer when I was confident SRAM had things sorted. Switched one bike to Guides and the other to Codes. No problems. Anyways, I'm just judging each brake model independently. Each company has hits and misses. I respect the public statement that SRAM made whereas Shimano really gave my LBS the runaround when we were working on the warranty.

  52. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by gate View Post
    It's weird how this devolves into "Shimano vs SRAM" - I'm always suspicious of anyone's judgment when they have extreme brand loyalty.
    I don't think it's weird at all as are the dominant manufacturers, not just of brakes but of bike components generally, and are typically competing in the same market areas.

    I fully agree that each has hits misses and issues. To an extent they are victims of their own success. I think they have both managed to grow to a size where dealing with recall/fault issues of the type we're talking about here is almost impossible. The supply chain has grown beyond a level they can fully control and the service network to reach all buyers simply does not exist.

    The will on their part to fund such support is lacking and buyers don't help when they fail to hold them to account. It's like getting bad food in a restaurant and not complaining, all you do is encourage their complacency. To a large extent, we get the products we deserve.

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