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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    ...just put some cold water on them. Damn you're stubborn!
    At this point. Trying to have a adult conversation with you is pointless.
    No need to be calling anyone names.
    Too Many .

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent701 View Post
    At this point. Trying to have a adult conversation with you is pointless. No need to be calling anyone names.
    Chill out dude, he's just taking the piss.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Chill out dude, he's just taking the piss.
    I know.
    I just don't see a point to keep trying to spark fire over this crap.

    Her brakes got fixed by sram for nothing.
    The problem is known and adds up

    They work for now. Temps have dropped the last week back to the 80's. Only a few more weeks till we will know if the fix they say is the fix works or not lol

    Till then. We just gonna ride our bikes.
    Lots of racing coming up


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    Too Many .

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent701 View Post
    They work for now. Temps have dropped the last week back to the 80's. Only a few more weeks till we will know if the fix they say is the fix works or not lol
    How about heating up the brake lever with a hairdryer right now to know for sure? If you honestly concerned take matters into your own hands instead of pinning it on god to send you hot weather.

    Pro Tip: There this cooling spray from the pharmacy. They usually use it on soccer players. Works equally well here!

  5. #305
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    So the owner of the bike shop just called me to let me know that the SRAM parts came in and they wanted to know if I changed my mind because SRAM next day aired them (even though they told me they would be 10 days out). I told them that I was going to go to MOJO, (a shop in a near by town that the owner used to work for them back in the 90's-early 2000's) and told him that Scott was going to charge me about $20.00 a side and said goodbye.
    Strange 'cause I used to ride with the team on Saturdays and spent some money over the years. But I told him that was just too steep a cost. "Well that is what we charge for a brake bleed," he said.

    Shouldn't there be industry standards like auto/motorcycle shop have? Guess not. Oh well.

  6. #306
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    Sram replaced my entire guide ultimate lever units for no charge, the LBS was looking to charge me $25 to install and do a brake bleed but I just took the levers and did that myself. So far they have been flawless with the new internals.
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  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankhead10 View Post
    Shouldn't there be industry standards like auto/motorcycle shop have? Guess not. Oh well.
    No because a bike techs would starve on a flat rate system.
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  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    No because a bike techs would starve on a flat rate system.
    True


    Wife was able to take the bike out for a test ride today. all working good so far.
    High was 109 out on the trail and they still worked.

    Maybe this is the fix.
    Too Many .

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankhead10 View Post
    But I told him that was just too steep a cost. "Well that is what we charge for a brake bleed," he said.
    150$ for a brake bleed?
    Maybe they're using human blood, and the mechanic is the poor sucker who's gonna take the plunge.

    With that kind of price it would actually be cheaper to buy a new set of Shimano SLX brakes. Industry standard is 20-30€ here in Europe, and that's already quite steep as you can get the pro bleed kit for less.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent701 View Post
    Maybe this is the fix.
    SRAM's new brake slogan right there. I can see it now, big red letters on the side of the boxes...

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    Well the difference is I'm running Guide RSCs since 2014 and love them while Mr. Pig is not running any Guides but still joining every Sram Guide thread to educate people on how bad they're.

    The only major issue with the Guide is the sticky lever syndrome which can be remedied on the fly by cooling down the lever housing (just carry some cold water for you AND the lever...)
    No, that didn't work when I was riding my Stache on a hot day. As far as the financials, it really doesn't matter. Anyone can fix defective SRAM brakes for less than $50 all in from nothing if they buy cheap tools and do the labor. I paid $450 to upgrade my fleet with Shimano. My neighbor found Tektro brakes for less than $100. My racing friend warrantied all three of his sets, one set twice.

    Thank you to Mr Pig and others. It's not me, it's not just my friends. It's not a bad batch that was filling cardboard boxes at a local shop. I bought a new bike last week. I settled in a price with Shimano brakes already installed. This thread saved me $150.

    I told the shop owner that SRAM brakes suck. He said he knows, and that I had no idea what it had cost him. He said he wished he had the resources to rip them off every new MTB before the sale and send them back. I feel for him. The shop is new (two years) and it was the most honest conversation I'd had in decades in an LBS. Typically they just act like it is all normal, or they have never heard of it.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    SRAM's new brake slogan right there. I can see it now, big red letters on the side of the boxes...
    lol. They need to add it to the droppers also
    Too Many .

  13. #313
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    Had this very thing happen on my one week old bike last weekend. Got to carry the front tire in my right hand and drag the bike by the back tire in my left hand for 5 miles in the 95 degree desert. Not an awesome day. Lbs is working on the warranty claim as we speak.

  14. #314
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    If I was basically living in the desert I'd just move to a place with a more moderate climate to make the Guides feel @home

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    If I was basically living in the desert I'd just move to a place with a more moderate climate to make the Guides feel @home
    I've been avoiding it, but I think I'm just gonna have to be honest with my significant other and my employer. As much as I value them, I feel like I have to do what's in the best interest of my guides and move. I mean when you have guides your priorities change. It's not all about you anymore.

  16. #316
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    No wonder your Guides were working so poorly when you always put yourself first.

  17. #317
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    Hey all, loving the commentary here. Good chuckle all the way through. That said, don't move just because of your guides. The truth is, they still won't work. I lived in the farthest north reaches of Michigan (Houghton, MI up in da UP) and still had sticking issues.

    That said I would never swap my guides for Shimano - at least not XTs or XTRs. I'd gladly take rebuilding these things yearly over running those brakes - I've ridden a lot of XTs and XTRs, and there is no comparison in modulation to the Guides. Yes they have tons of stopping power, but it's on or off. No, I'll likely be bucking up more money to go with some high end brakes. Need to play on a friend's Hopes and see what I think. But just saying, I'm seeing a lot of "swap over to Shimano" but to me that's a big down grade in feel. Upgrade in reliability no doubt. Someone did mention a Shimano with better modulation though, might have to scroll back through and find the name and check them out.

    Just some more things to think about, it's not as easy as just swapping to Shimano because the feel is totally different.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnsonad11 View Post
    I've ridden a lot of XTs and XTRs, and there is no comparison in modulation to the Guides.
    Fair enough. It's a recurring complaint about Shimano vs...just about any other brake but it doesn't bother me. I don't find Shimano bad, just different and I'm so used to them I don't think about it. In fact I like the gentle touch of Shimano brakes. Fingertip control.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnsonad11 View Post
    Hey all, loving the commentary here. Good chuckle all the way through. That said, don't move just because of your guides. The truth is, they still won't work. I lived in the farthest north reaches of Michigan (Houghton, MI up in da UP) and still had sticking issues.

    That said I would never swap my guides for Shimano - at least not XTs or XTRs. I'd gladly take rebuilding these things yearly over running those brakes - I've ridden a lot of XTs and XTRs, and there is no comparison in modulation to the Guides. Yes they have tons of stopping power, but it's on or off. No, I'll likely be bucking up more money to go with some high end brakes. Need to play on a friend's Hopes and see what I think. But just saying, I'm seeing a lot of "swap over to Shimano" but to me that's a big down grade in feel. Upgrade in reliability no doubt. Someone did mention a Shimano with better modulation though, might have to scroll back through and find the name and check them out.

    Just some more things to think about, it's not as easy as just swapping to Shimano because the feel is totally different.
    Have to ask, ever try the Race levers?
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  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Fair enough. It's a recurring complaint about Shimano vs...just about any other brake but it doesn't bother me. I don't find Shimano bad, just different and I'm so used to them I don't think about it. In fact I like the gentle touch of Shimano brakes. Fingertip control.
    One finger braking is the only way it should be done :-) wish I could do that on my dirtbike!

  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Have to ask, ever try the Race levers?
    No I think those were the ones mentioned earlier I need to try - I've only used the XT and XTR (well and SLX) so I'll put the Race in my notes. Definitely looking for a replacement at some point in time so if the Race are cheaper than Hope, it might be a good one!

  22. #322
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    Last night I had a dream that @Mr Pig went into my garage to sabotage my beloved Sram Guide brakes. I would report the failure right away in the forums on the next day just to read @Mr Pig response "told you so!"

    Put the bike in the bedroom for now.

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    Last night I had a dream that Mr Pig went into my garage to sabotage my beloved Sram Guide brakes.
    They don't need the help.

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnsonad11 View Post
    No I think those were the ones mentioned earlier I need to try - I've only used the XT and XTR (well and SLX) so I'll put the Race in my notes. Definitely looking for a replacement at some point in time so if the Race are cheaper than Hope, it might be a good one!
    Which XTR's? The trails are different than the race. 100% different feel.
    Too Many .

  25. #325
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    Traitor, how dare you poisoning Sram Guide thread with dirty Shimano stuff. Shimano brakes are for cowards!

    We gonna fix our Guides now and go riding before it gets real hot outside!

  26. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent701 View Post
    Which XTR's? The trails are different than the race. 100% different feel.
    Hm awfully good question. Did some shuttle laps with a friend's bike, so I'm not 100% sure. They look very similar from a quick Google search, and I believe it was the Trails because it looks like the race has a carbon lever? Another friend of ours ended up with one of the carbon levers imbeded in his shin (unfortunate accident) so the friends bike that I did use was aluminum levers - I'd assume he had bought the trail brakes instead of the race, but there's a chance he just swapped the levers over (if that's even possible) I'll have to ask next time we're out.

    But I do see some reviews saying the race has much better modulation, so definitely worth checking out.

  27. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    Traitor, how dare you poisoning Sram Guide thread with dirty Shimano stuff. Shimano brakes are for cowards!

    We gonna fix our Guides now and go riding before it gets real hot outside!
    Too late. It's 105 outside right now
    Too Many .

  28. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent701 View Post
    Too late. It's 105 outside right now
    Ok I take back what I said, move. Even if it doesn't fix your guides, 105 sounds terrible. It's a nice comfortable 56° here :-D

  29. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnsonad11 View Post
    Hm awfully good question. Did some shuttle laps with a friend's bike, so I'm not 100% sure. They look very similar from a quick Google search, and I believe it was the Trails because it looks like the race has a carbon lever? Another friend of ours ended up with one of the carbon levers imbeded in his shin (unfortunate accident) so the friends bike that I did use was aluminum levers - I'd assume he had bought the trail brakes instead of the race, but there's a chance he just swapped the levers over (if that's even possible) I'll have to ask next time we're out.

    But I do see some reviews saying the race has much better modulation, so definitely worth checking out.
    The race have a tool adjustment for reach and the trail have tool-less adjustment. They look like the XT's.

    The XTR trails have the servo wave action like the XT's but the XTR race do not have it. which give it a different feel. I personally hate my XTR race brakes. Do not have the stopping power my XT's do even with using metal pads
    Too Many .

  30. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnsonad11 View Post
    Ok I take back what I said, move. Even if it doesn't fix your guides, 105 sounds terrible. It's a nice comfortable 56° here :-D
    lol, As of now they have been working.
    She went riding the other day and my sons Garmin read 109.. We are heading at in about 2 hours to go riding. Shall see if they still work. lol

    The Guides feel and work great, when they work. I give them that. Great feel and stopping power Just a toss up if they are going to work or not when it gets hot outside. With Summer here in AZ. It's always hot
    Too Many .

  31. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent701 View Post
    Too late. It's 105 outside right now
    oh oh - season is over for you my friend.
    No Guides, no bikes.
    Better luck in autumn!

  32. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent701 View Post
    lol, As of now they have been working.
    She went riding the other day and my sons Garmin read 109.. We are heading at in about 2 hours to go riding. Shall see if they still work. lol

    The Guides feel and work great, when they work. I give them that. Great feel and stopping power Just a toss up if they are going to work or not when it gets hot outside. With Summer here in AZ. It's always hot
    I die when it hits 80°....

  33. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    oh oh - season is over for you my friend.
    No Guides, no bikes.
    Better luck in autumn!

    lol, not for me. XT's and XTR's.
    But the race season is over in 2 weeks.. then the longer races start. woohoo
    Too Many .

  34. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent701 View Post
    I personally hate my XTR race brakes.

    That's modulation everyone seems to love.

    I have no problem with servo wave brakes personally.
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  35. #335
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    Too much Shimano talk here. Why is it there's always Shimano mentioned when brakes from a different brand don't work?

    Nevermind. Some admin shall quickly clean the thread before everyone succumbs the temptation and switches over to Shimano. I don't want Sram to go bankrupt!

  36. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnsonad11 View Post
    Did some shuttle laps with a friend's bike, so I'm not 100% sure. They look very similar from a quick Google search, and I believe it was the Trails because it looks like the race has a carbon lever?
    The feel of Shimano brakes is just something you get used to. If they were terrible, I doubt they would be so popular. Coming from another type is bound to feel wrong but once you're used to them it's fine.

  37. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    The feel of Shimano brakes is just something you get used to. If they were terrible, I doubt they would be so popular. Coming from another type is bound to feel wrong but once you're used to them it's fine.
    Shimano brakes are like cigarettes.
    They also taste like shit in the beginning but after some time addiction kicks in and you start to like them.

    The Sram Guide is like a cigarette that tastes great from the start but kills you off with cancer soon after.

  38. #338
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    Well i talked to SRAM. I asked them if the second shop contacted them about the warrantied brakes. They were very helpful and apologized about the problem. I told them about the $150.00 charge from the one shop and Jason told me that since it has been warrantied through one shop he will have to contact that shop to verify that they did not install and sent back. He called them and had some words about the $150.00 charge but would not divulge the convo specifics.... which I appreciated.
    and then I called the second shop to tell them to call Jason at ext. xxxx and they would send the brakes out pronto....
    He said he would call that day... that was two days ago. I called SRAM to see if he called. They said NO. Wonderful. Next step is to have them ship them to me. Got a trip planned soon...

  39. #339
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    I'm a little confused as to the actual "fix" for the sticking brake issue - is it a replacement piston/o-rings or a replacement lever?

    It's hard to tell based on the conversation from the last several pages.

  40. #340
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    When SRAM sends a warranty replacement, it's the complete lever.

    Some have bypassed the warranty process and just purchased/installed the newer version of the lever rebuild kit.

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  41. #341
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    When you say it's the "complete lever", do you mean the entire master cylinder + lever assembly that mounts on the handlebars?

  42. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by DM-SC View Post
    When SRAM sends a warranty replacement, it's the complete lever.
    When Shimano warranted my leaking brakes they sent out full brakes, bled, hoses the correct length, ready to fit. That's complete.

  43. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRP View Post
    When you say it's the "complete lever", do you mean the entire master cylinder + lever assembly that mounts on the handlebars?
    Yes.

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  44. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    When Shimano warranted my leaking brakes they sent out full brakes, bled, hoses the correct length, ready to fit. That's complete.
    Hey Shimano lover,

    you're not running any Sram brakes so what are you still doing in this thread apart from not missing any opportunity to spread glee in others people's faces who have issues with their Sram brakes.

    Good to know that Shimano send you a complete brake kit but what is this information good for in a Sram Guide thread?

  45. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    Good to know that Shimano send you a complete brake kit but what is this information good for in a Sram Guide thread?
    I thought people wanted to know the solution for the problem of SRAM brakes?

  46. #346
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    Goddamn it pig, the thread says "...replaced under warranty"

    What's so hard to understand ?

    If people were looking for an alternative product to replace their Sram Guide brakes they wouldn't come here in the first place.

    You can open a thread and advise people about Shimano brakes there but coming here and pointing fingers to anyone who's got a problem saying "I told you so...!" is just immature

  47. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    What's so hard to understand ?
    That I have the freedom to say what I like? :0)

  48. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    That I have the freedom to say what I like? :0)
    Look this is silly. You don't even own Sram Guide brakes!

    Just open a thread with a meaningful title called "Shimano brakes are better than Sram brakes" and lay down all your arguments there.

  49. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    Just open a thread with a meaningful title called "Shimano brakes are better than Sram brakes" and lay down all your arguments there.
    Who gave you a badge and a gun?

  50. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Who gave you a badge and a gun?
    I'm starting to believe that your name and avatar picture have some deeper meaning behind it

  51. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    I'm starting to believe that your name and avatar picture have some deeper meaning behind it
    I am starting to not care what you beleive :0)

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    So lately I'm having an issue with my Guide RS brakes and I'm not sure if it is the SAME issue in this thread. It didn't appear to have anything to do with heat. I basically put my bike away in the basement for the winter and when I pulled it out this spring it has had this issue:

    The brakes have no feel or modulation. They almost feel "gritty". The wheels easily lock up. The levers don't seem to return when I let go. I mean, the pads release, but the levers don't really "go out".

    ac

  53. #353
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    Hard to say, as many of us have had similar, but different, experiences.
    Something's obviously wrong with yours, though, and it does sound consistent with the piston sticking. When mine "locked up", they would release enough to ride the bike, meaning they were either completely on or off, with no in between. Fairly similar to what yours have started doing.
    I'd take that as a blessing in disguise, as opposed to having them lock up on a long ride, and not delay getting them warrantied or repaired.

    btw, my brakes had been on the bike for 14 months, and were fine through a whole summer in Alabama before displaying this issue at <80F this spring, so it's not just about outside temp.

  54. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenM View Post
    ..so it's not just about outside temp.
    My mate's Avid/SRAM brakes have been terrible and we live in Scotland, where you don't get temperature!

  55. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    So lately I'm having an issue with my Guide RS brakes and I'm not sure if it is the SAME issue in this thread. It didn't appear to have anything to do with heat. I basically put my bike away in the basement for the winter and when I pulled it out this spring it has had this issue:

    The brakes have no feel or modulation. They almost feel "gritty". The wheels easily lock up. The levers don't seem to return when I let go. I mean, the pads release, but the levers don't really "go out".

    ac
    This fits the description. I've been a bit confused looking at the "locked up" bit of this problem, because the only time I've ever seen that in heat it was because of water in the brake fluid, and a flush and bleed typically cured it. But a year or so ago my front lever did exactly what you're describing. When it was hot, it had no "return" - it would move just far enough to let the wheel spin, touch them and they were on. Felt like Shimano brakes at that point, little or no modulation. When cooler, the lever moved the right amount, but it was a little sluggish about it. Not visibly so, it was something you more had to feel. You could compare it to the rear brake, which worked fine, and feel the difference. The front lever was warrantied, no questions asked. Recently, the rear lever started to exhibit that sluggish feel. I took the bike to the shop straight away, and they called SRAM and the rear lever has now been warrantied as well. It's worth mentioning, these brakes are part of the original Guide R run, so they're working on being 3 years old, well past when SRAM was obligated to do anything about this under warranty.

  56. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenM View Post
    Hard to say, as many of us have had similar, but different, experiences.
    Something's obviously wrong with yours, though, and it does sound consistent with the piston sticking. When mine "locked up", they would release enough to ride the bike, meaning they were either completely on or off, with no in between. Fairly similar to what yours have started doing.
    I'd take that as a blessing in disguise, as opposed to having them lock up on a long ride, and not delay getting them warrantied or repaired.

    btw, my brakes had been on the bike for 14 months, and were fine through a whole summer in Alabama before displaying this issue at <80F this spring, so it's not just about outside temp.
    That's what threw me off. They were fine until they sat un-used over winter. They woke up from hibernation like this.

    Do replacement piston kits fix it? I don't really have an LBS, so I just assume fix it myself.

    Sram Brake Lever Internals Parts Kit for GUIDE RS Qty 1 | eBay

    ac

  57. #357
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    Add my friend to the list with failed Guides. 6 month old bike, weather just started getting warm here, lever stuck and brake was dragging so bad he had to remove the wheel, pry the pads apart, and finish the ride without touching the front brake.

    His old bike has SLX brakes, so I swapped the front brake to SLX for him. We ought to go ahead and swap the rear as well just to prevent a repeat. I expect the Guides will go into the trash bin.
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  58. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    Add my friend to the list with failed Guides...I expect the Guides will go into the trash bin.
    Yeah, the ones with the faulty piston are all going to fail. SRAM will replace them for him for free, though.
    I'll pay shipping plus a little extra if you want to send them to me, instead of throwing them out.
    They're much better brakes than the SLX, just need a little plastic part that wasn't to spec and a bleed to work like new.

    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    Do replacement piston kits fix it? I don't really have an LBS, so I just assume fix it myself.

    Sram Brake Lever Internals Parts Kit for GUIDE RS Qty 1 | eBay

    ac
    Replacing the pistons fixed mine. You just need the piston and snapring(in case you damage the stock one removing it), though, so you can use the cheaper kit for the Guide R/DB5 that doesn't include a swinglink.
    Here, this is $12.57/ea shipped. Got mine $9/ea+$4 shipping from Niagara Cycles through Amazon, but they're showing out of stock.
    SRAM Guide R, Avid DB5 Lever Internals Parts Kit Qty 1 | 365 Cycles

    Read the comments here, too:
    SRAM Guide lever rebuild
    The first one was a PITA for me getting my pliers filed to fit,and lining everything up repeatedly(maybe standing there looking at it like "duh" a few times), but after doing it, the second one was a breeze.

  59. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    My mate's Avid/SRAM brakes have been terrible
    liar

  60. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    So lately I'm having an issue with my Guide RS brakes

    I basically put my bike away in the basement for the winter and when I pulled it out this spring it has had this issue
    that's why I always pull the brake levers at least once a day in winter time to make sure the brakes don't fall apart from boredom.

  61. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenM View Post
    Yeah, the ones with the faulty piston are all going to fail. SRAM will replace them for him for free, though.
    I'll pay shipping plus a little extra if you want to send them to me, instead of throwing them out.
    They're much better brakes than the SLX, just need a little plastic part that wasn't to spec and a bleed to work like new.


    Replacing the pistons fixed mine. You just need the piston and snapring(in case you damage the stock one removing it), though, so you can use the cheaper kit for the Guide R/DB5 that doesn't include a swinglink.
    Here, this is $12.57/ea shipped. Got mine $9/ea+$4 shipping from Niagara Cycles through Amazon, but they're showing out of stock.
    SRAM Guide R, Avid DB5 Lever Internals Parts Kit Qty 1 | 365 Cycles

    Read the comments here, too:
    SRAM Guide lever rebuild
    The first one was a PITA for me getting my pliers filed to fit,and lining everything up repeatedly(maybe standing there looking at it like "duh" a few times), but after doing it, the second one was a breeze.
    I was wondering about that. The internals kit comes with so many extra parts it just seems silly.

    For $25 for both sets I can't be bothered waiting for warranty and trying to convince some self-righteous LBS to actually HELP me.

    ac

  62. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenM View Post
    Yeah, the ones with the faulty piston are all going to fail. SRAM will replace them for him for free, though.
    I'll pay shipping plus a little extra if you want to send them to me, instead of throwing them out.
    They're much better brakes than the SLX, just need a little plastic part that wasn't to spec and a bleed to work like new.


    Replacing the pistons fixed mine. You just need the piston and snapring(in case you damage the stock one removing it), though, so you can use the cheaper kit for the Guide R/DB5 that doesn't include a swinglink.
    Here, this is $12.57/ea shipped. Got mine $9/ea+$4 shipping from Niagara Cycles through Amazon, but they're showing out of stock.
    SRAM Guide R, Avid DB5 Lever Internals Parts Kit Qty 1 | 365 Cycles

    Read the comments here, too:
    SRAM Guide lever rebuild
    The first one was a PITA for me getting my pliers filed to fit,and lining everything up repeatedly(maybe standing there looking at it like "duh" a few times), but after doing it, the second one was a breeze.
    Thanks, I'll PM you if that is the case, might be a few weeks before I know. I mentioned that he could warranty them and he seemed to have zero interest in that. He works a lot and just wants the bike to work when he gets a chance to ride. I saw the procedure to fix them, and even though I do my own work and some DIY stuff, I'm just not in the mood to mess with that right now.

    Unfortunately the SLX is squeaking a bit. Either it doesn't like the SRAM rotor, or sitting for 6 months allowed some fluid seepage. It was dead quiet on his old bike.

    After riding his bike and testing both brakes, I do like the feel of the Guides better. I have XTs and don't like the initial hit. Zees are progressive; didn't know that back in 2014 when I bought XTs.
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  63. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    Thanks, I'll PM you if that is the case, might be a few weeks before I know. I mentioned that he could warranty them and he seemed to have zero interest in that. He works a lot and just wants the bike to work when he gets a chance to ride. I saw the procedure to fix them, and even though I do my own work and some DIY stuff, I'm just not in the mood to mess with that right now.
    I can understand that. I work a lot, too, but equate the cost of my toys to overtime hours. $20-30 in parts and an hour or so spent messing with them to revive a set of $300 retail brakes is a pretty good investment.
    If they're RS or higher, I'd love to have them for spares or to go on a new bike I might get next year. You may want to fix and keep them yourself, though, if your mood changes!

  64. #364
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    Here's my dilemma. model RSC's, bought new June 2015 a la carte, not part of bike build. Has temp-related issue as described throughout this thread. That bike shop says they no longer work with SRAM, so won't involve themselves with warranty claim. But 2 yr warranty about to expire. Took to different local shop in March. Backordered, but was given 5/5/17 delivery date for internals kit, but no mention of warranty help. Now ship date has slipped to July (4 f-in months). I leave for big summer trip (with bike I hope) in less than 3 weeks. Is there a complaint hotline at SRAM anyone can point me to? I probably need to buy something, but IMHO, SRAM owes me a lever.

    2nd question: would a SRAM brake with S4 caliper necessarily have the upgraded internal piston, in case I can buy a complete brake at decent price.

    Just in case someone wants to suggest Shimano, SLX-XTR has inferior fit given rear frame configuration. Possibly Deore would be better, but still inferior. SRAM Guide fits perfectly. Issue is with front brake. But not sure of ergonomics with SRAM shifter (yes, I have front derailleur) or mixing front Shimano with rear SRAM brake.

  65. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by impatient View Post
    Here's my dilemma. model RSC's, bought new June 2015 a la carte, not part of bike build. Has temp-related issue as described throughout this thread. That bike shop says they no longer work with SRAM, so won't involve themselves with warranty claim. But 2 yr warranty about to expire. Took to different local shop in March. Backordered, but was given 5/5/17 delivery date for internals kit, but no mention of warranty help. Now ship date has slipped to July (4 f-in months). I leave for big summer trip (with bike I hope) in less than 3 weeks. Is there a complaint hotline at SRAM anyone can point me to? I probably need to buy something, but IMHO, SRAM owes me a lever.

    2nd question: would a SRAM brake with S4 caliper necessarily have the upgraded internal piston, in case I can buy a complete brake at decent price.

    Just in case someone wants to suggest Shimano, SLX-XTR has inferior fit given rear frame configuration. Possibly Deore would be better, but still inferior. SRAM Guide fits perfectly. Issue is with front brake. But not sure of ergonomics with SRAM shifter (yes, I have front derailleur) or mixing front Shimano with rear SRAM brake.
    You are getting screwed by shops. You need to find a shop that will simply call SRAM and submit a warranty claim for the lever based on its behavior, and SRAM will cover it. Again, it's a simple matter of the shop taking care of a customer and taking care of business. Unfortunately, to the best of knowledge, SRAM does not deal with customers directly, their support runs to a shop level only to control volume and contact points. Let me be clear: Any shop worth spending money at will contact SRAM for you and this lever would be warrantied. My last lever warranty arrived at the shop in 9 days. Not 9 business days. Nine days from when I took my bike to the shop for the mechanic to look at.

  66. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by impatient View Post
    Here's my dilemma. model RSC's, bought new June 2015 a la carte, not part of bike build. Has temp-related issue as described throughout this thread. That bike shop says they no longer work with SRAM, so won't involve themselves with warranty claim. But 2 yr warranty about to expire. Took to different local shop in March. Backordered, but was given 5/5/17 delivery date for internals kit, but no mention of warranty help. Now ship date has slipped to July (4 f-in months). I leave for big summer trip (with bike I hope) in less than 3 weeks. Is there a complaint hotline at SRAM anyone can point me to? I probably need to buy something, but IMHO, SRAM owes me a lever.

    2nd question: would a SRAM brake with S4 caliper necessarily have the upgraded internal piston, in case I can buy a complete brake at decent price.

    Just in case someone wants to suggest Shimano, SLX-XTR has inferior fit given rear frame configuration. Possibly Deore would be better, but still inferior. SRAM Guide fits perfectly. Issue is with front brake. But not sure of ergonomics with SRAM shifter (yes, I have front derailleur) or mixing front Shimano with rear SRAM brake.
    I have to ask- what frame and what makes it an inferior fit? It either fits or it doesn't. If it does and works, what's the problem?
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  67. #367
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    Turner Dw link. Adjustable banjo, on "inside" of caliper is the key. XT etc have banjo on "outside." Deore, on inside but points in awkward direction, with no banjo. It's a cable routing issue. Plus I have 2 SRAM shifters so new brackets and/matchmakers needed on the handlebar, if switching to Shimano. I'm willing to give SRAM another chance if I can get an RSC lever, or the internals to rebuild in time. Of course, free (under warranty) sure beats $150-200 for new front brake, plus cable shortening, plus bleed.

    Can I repeat my 2nd question: if I find some take-offs at a local shop, or wherever, and they have the S4 calipers, could I assume they have the upgraded master cylinder piston? Or did SRAM upgrade to S4 before they upgraded the piston?

    In other words, how can I know I am getting a lever with latest piston?

  68. #368
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    I switched to Shimano XT. Not looking back. The Guide RS warranty replacements were fine, but I wanted an all Shimano cockpit.

    That being said, the entire SRAM organization customer service model sucks. I was trying to track down the right service kit for a Rockshox fork. SRAM uses dealer networks for their customer service and tech support, so I had to deal with a bit of LBS b.s. "oh, you don't want to rebuild that yourself, we'll do it for $150 crap" until I spoke with Worldwide Cyclery who gave me the right kit.

    If you can't do Shimano, what about Hayes, Magura, Formula? I have no experience with them, I am in Shimano's camp now.

  69. #369
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    Hope and Magura have both been excellent in terms of CS for me. Accidentally put Mineral Oil in some Hopes (wrong syringes in the garage) and they immediately explained the procedure and sent us the correct seals. Magura has been super fast and friendly when I was trying to get a reach and bleed right on a new set.

    BTW, running MT6 on a XC bike and MT Trails on two enduro bikes right now. Yeah, never going back to Guides. Night and day difference.

  70. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by impatient View Post
    Turner Dw link. Adjustable banjo, on "inside" of caliper is the key. XT etc have banjo on "outside." Deore, on inside but points in awkward direction, with no banjo. It's a cable routing issue. Plus I have 2 SRAM shifters so new brackets and/matchmakers needed on the handlebar, if switching to Shimano. I'm willing to give SRAM another chance if I can get an RSC lever, or the internals to rebuild in time. Of course, free (under warranty) sure beats $150-200 for new front brake, plus cable shortening, plus bleed.

    Can I repeat my 2nd question: if I find some take-offs at a local shop, or wherever, and they have the S4 calipers, could I assume they have the upgraded master cylinder piston? Or did SRAM upgrade to S4 before they upgraded the piston?

    In other words, how can I know I am getting a lever with latest piston?
    I can't answer how you know you're getting a lever with the latest piston. I can tell you that even the bad pistons will potentially last as much as 2 years.

  71. #371
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    I just dealt with this same issue. Fortunately my local shop (Big Swingin' Cycles in San Francisco) has excellent customer service and are all around great people. They were immediately aware of the problem and had spare sets of internals at the shop. I did the work myself, and my only pointers are to get a small set of snap ring pliers with long tips. I bought a pair at Lowes, but they were too fat. Fortunately my dad had an old set I was able to grind down and make work. Second tip, if the piston is stuck in the lever body, stick it in the freezer for 10 minutes or so and the piston will shrink and pop right out. To get the snap ring back in, I put the lever in a vice, and with the snap ring pliers in one hand and a long skinny flathead screwdriver in the other, I pushed down on the snap ring/washer/piston/spring and used the screwdriver to make sure the snap ring was fully seated before releasing the snap ring pliers.

  72. #372
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    Maybe slightly OT but hopefully this is helpful to some folks... I just did this rebuild on a pair of Guide RSC levers. I built my bike from parts and I didn't want to deal with the SRAM dealer network issues, etc. so I ordered the internals kits on eBay. They were about $30. They shipped from China but they got here (Northern CA) in less than a week.

    Guide RS Levers not Returning: Replaced Under Warranty-screenshot_5_30_17__22_59.jpg

    The RSCs have a caliper adjustment wheel I believe instead of the snap ring discussed elsewhere in this thread. I didn't have to deal with any snap rings. The caliper adjustment on my early gen (late 2015 maybe?) RSCs was problematic. It was a plastic part that seized up and I wound up stripping the threads trying to free it. It's been completely redesigned in these rebuild kits and replaced with an aluminum part. Old one is on top, new one on the bottom:

    Guide RS Levers not Returning: Replaced Under Warranty-screenshot_5_30_17__23_07.jpg

    I can personally vouch for the "put it in the freezer for a while" method of freeing the piston. Worked great. I put it in a little plastic baggie (one of the ones that came with the kit) and I'm glad I did because it puked a little bit of DOT 5.1 fluid when it popped free.

    Guide RS Levers not Returning: Replaced Under Warranty-screenshot_5_30_17__23_09.jpg

    Here are the problematic pistons (old one is on top). They look quite similar at first glance. Subjectively, the spring on the new one feels stiffer, but that could be due to the old one having been used for a while.

    Guide RS Levers not Returning: Replaced Under Warranty-screenshot_5_30_17__23_11.jpg

    I put a micrometer on the each of the three rings of the old and redesigned pistons. The new ones were measurably smaller.

    Guide RS Levers not Returning: Replaced Under Warranty-screenshot_5_30_17__23_17.jpg

    Here are the measurements. These may be good target diameters for folks who are looking to mod their existing pistons instead of ordering new ones.

    First ring (closest to spring):
    Old: 9.48mm
    New: 9.36mm

    Second ring:
    Old: 9.44mm
    New: 9.34mm

    Third ring (closest to plunger):
    Old: 9.42mm
    New: 9.32mm

    It seems pretty likely that this'll resolve my stuck piston issues but I guess time will tell. In any case, hopefully this info is helpful to some RSC owners who aren't looking to jump ship just yet

  73. #373
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    Informative, thanks. August '15 purchased bike with Guide RSC.

    My RSC's are on way to SRAM for both caliper adjustment wheel (rear) and sticky lever pistons in warm weather (front and rear). Approximately 3-4 week turnaround I'm told. Did not have this piston issue until this spring.

    I would have rebuilt myself, if I didn't have an old set of Juicy 7's to get me through one of the better riding months in the Northeast U.S.

  74. #374
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    Oh, yuck. Hope my "new pistons" are actually the newest pistons. That center section was solid on mine(edit: my original, faulty pistons) and that relieved part on your new one has a groove around the middle. Not 100%, but pretty sure my replacements did not...
    Last edited by OwenM; 3 Weeks Ago at 05:18 PM.

  75. #375
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    Had one of these yesterday. One call to Sram and a new lever is on the way to the shop. Not sure why people are rebuilding these if Sram will just replace the lever.

  76. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIke N Gear View Post
    Had one of these yesterday. One call to Sram and a new lever is on the way to the shop. Not sure why people are rebuilding these if Sram will just replace the lever.
    Because you HAVE to use a shop. Some of us don't have one local worth a crap.

  77. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    Because you HAVE to use a shop. Some of us don't have one local worth a crap.
    Another reason to give Shimano your money over Sram.
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  78. #378
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    This happened to me this morning, here's what happened and how I fixed it. I'm spending 2 weeks in CO. My sram DB5s worked great for a year up until I got here. Twice when the temp went over 80 degrees the brakes locked up solid. On the start of the second ride, I could not physically move the rear tire with my bare hand.

    So here I am in CO with a bike with frozen brakes. Thanks SRAM. What to do?...

    Saturday morning at 9am I start calling shops. 4 out of 4 shops acknowledged the sticking piston issue. 1 shop told me he's warrantied 3 in 2 days. All 4 shops offered to warranty them but I can't do that since I dont live here. I'll be damned if I'm staying in Colorado springs and staring at a useless bike for a week.

    I bought XT brakes at 9:34am and the shop installed them on the spot. I was out of the shop in an hour and out on the trails at 11:10am. The shop shortened the hoses and bled the brakes, then they burnished them in. They even had 2 ppl at once working on my bike while I watched leogang footage on their tv. Kinda felt like a pro with 2 ppl working on my bike lol. I still have the old brakes, I'll rma them when I get home and just have a spare set of brakes. They were great until they werent.

    Thank you ProCycling in Colorado springs for taking care of my sram brake issue by turning them into Shimano XTs instead.

    TL;DR: sram brakes failed, found local shop and replaced them with XTs, because F sram.
    Last edited by xblitzkriegx; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:31 AM.

  79. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by xblitzkriegx View Post
    I still have the old brakes...
    Put them on eBay and claw back some money. Someone will buy them, you have no idea how many stupid people there are in the world!

    The thing about Shimano brakes is that you don't really need spare ones. Unless you crash them. My levers are scratched and I have a chunk out of the reservoir cover from tumbles but the brakes still work. I do still have a couple of spare brakes but I've never used them.

  80. #380
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    I dropped my bike off yesterday at an LBS for SRAM warranty replacement of both my front and rear Guide RS. Hopefully the "one week" is accurate...

  81. #381
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    It took 10 days to get my Salsa Mukluk w/Sram Guide R brakes warranty replaced at local bike shop where I purchased it. No charges.

  82. #382
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    It looks like the Guide RS and Guide R rebuild kits are on backorder. Anyone know of a source? I'm half tempted to just get a set of Deores and be done with these terrible things.

  83. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by car_nut View Post
    It looks like the Guide RS and Guide R rebuild kits are on backorder. Anyone know of a source? I'm half tempted to just get a set of Deores and be done with these terrible things.
    Find a large event near you that SRAM will be at.
    Had the wife's done at Whiskey off road.
    So far so good. been tested in as hot has 108degs and they still return. I would personally still just order the Deores or some SLX/XT's though
    Too Many .

  84. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent701 View Post
    Find a large event near you that SRAM will be at.
    Had the wife's done at Whiskey off road.
    So far so good. been tested in as hot has 108degs and they still return. I would personally still just order the Deores or some SLX/XT's though
    No real big events coming to my neighborhood soon. Even if there was, I'm not spending my time at such an event dealing with SRAM warranty. Yeah, I think I'll bin these things. Just annoyed since I was skeptical of these brakes from the beginning but finally caved after all the great reviews and bought a higher spec'd bike just to get these over Deores. Now they're useless, can't source parts, the pads are all rusted and binding, and I'm ready to dump $120 to undo my choice of spending more money to get them in the first place. My relationship with SRAM is running very similar to Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football.

  85. #385
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    Why not just have the levers warrantied? You don't need to take the time or effort to rebuild them yourself or find someplace SRAM will be. Take it to a shop that knows what's up. My shop looked at my caliper to get the serial number, let me take the bike, got the lever in, and let me pick it up and change it out myself, then I took them the old parts, and they sent it back. Look at it this way. At least if you get the levers warrantied, you can sell some working brakes instead of just throwing them away.

  86. #386
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    Spending yet more money to get brakes that may or may not perform as well, and have their own set of potential issues(search for Hope, Shimano, Magura, Formula, all of them) hardly strikes me as a "good solution". A lot of us bought these specific brakes for good reason. The fact that they have this problem is unfortunate and disappointing, but whichever route we go, getting it straightened out is far and away the cheapest and simplest for most of us-and that's what I'd encourage people to do.
    Complaining about it doesn't fix anything, but I do feel for anybody trying to get parts right now(or having the problem at all) or that has a crappy LBS, 'cause I already know how much it sucks having to screw with these things, and just wanting them to work the way they're supposed to.

  87. #387
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    Wow, glad I found this thread, been having issues with these for over 2 years, I was just getting cheap db5s off chain when they were cheap to fix it. I sanded 2 levers and both work very good now. I'm going to get the offical parts for the set of TLMs I got, it would be nice to have drop ins that work. Even if I have to overhaul them once a year, its not that hard, and the matchmaker puts my levers where I like them, combining the sram/shimano always annoys me..
    5010 v1

  88. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by car_nut View Post
    My relationship with SRAM is running very similar to Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football.
    No one company is perfect. I think the quality and value of SRAM/RockShox forks is good and a lot of the other stuff they market is fine too. Just taking over Avid was a mistake in my opinion.

  89. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    No one company is perfect. I think the quality and value of SRAM/RockShox forks is good and a lot of the other stuff they market is fine too. Just taking over Avid was a mistake in my opinion.
    Yeah, as a whole I think they're pretty good. I've just had a string of bad luck with them starting with mis-machined Reba lowers up to this.

  90. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by car_nut View Post
    Yeah, as a whole I think they're pretty good. I've just had a string of bad luck with them starting with mis-machined Reba lowers up to this.
    I bought my son a new bike a few years ago that had an XC32 fork with squint brake posts. I had to file the faces in order to align the calliper properly. Someone told me, I can't remember who, that one of the reason Avid/SRAM brakes were popular with manufacturers was that the dome washers they use makes it easy to align the brakes on frames and forks that aren't straight. I don't know if that's true or not.

    Anyway, I still think Rock Shox forks are good value and generally good quality. The SRAM transmission on my full-sus is still working ok too and the rear dérailleur took a whack off a rock today and lived so happy days :0)

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    Well it happened to me,85 and bike in the sun. Brakes quit running. Put it in the shade and they come right back to life.My LBS rocks!!!! Quick pics, let me keep the bike 68 today, they run perfect. He is gonna call when the new ones show and install NC to me! Shouldn't happen, but SRAM and my LBS are handling it right.

  92. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ftchmup View Post
    Well it happened to me,85 and bike in the sun. Brakes quit running. Put it in the shade and they come right back to life.My LBS rocks!!!! Quick pics, let me keep the bike 68 today, they run perfect. He is gonna call when the new ones show and install NC to me! Shouldn't happen, but SRAM and my LBS are handling it right.
    I would disagree Sram is handling it right. It will take someone breaking their neck or worse for Sram to handle it right. Not everyone that owns these brakes are on forums. There should be a recall.

    Anything less is bean counters playing odds with people's health. No different than GM and the ignition fiasco.

    The way Sram is handling this puts them in a worse light than Specialized in my book. I for one will never buy one of their products after this.
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  93. #393
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    DB Lever

    Quote Originally Posted by dusadus View Post
    For those having issues with Guide brake levers not returning, my LBS got SRAM to warranty them and also upgraded them (RS to RSC). Anecdotally they had 3 warranty repairs including mine that week. So far they feel great. Not certain if it's a redesign or a recall, but if you are having similar issues take it to your LBS. My brakes started to act up ~9 months since I bought them. Bleeding and brake pad replacement and piston cleaning did nothing.
    I'm having similar issues with my DB levers. Noticed it last Saturday. they are really slow to return. Kind of worries me while descending. I'm planning on taking my bike in for a tune up in the next couple of weeks and I'll ask the shop to see if they are aware of such issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiito View Post
    I'm having similar issues with my DB levers. Noticed it last Saturday. they are really slow to return. Kind of worries me while descending. I'm planning on taking my bike in for a tune up in the next couple of weeks and I'll ask the shop to see if they are aware of such issues.
    They all have a similar design and problem. I have a few sets of DB5s around, but I haven't verified if sram has updated the part for that or not, it is a different piston setup than a RSC, no sure if the RS is the same.
    5010 v1

  95. #395
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    If you bought RSC's after Nov. 2016 direct from factory, you're good to go. Rode yesterday in 90+ degree heat with no problems at all.
    I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure.

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    its sucks too cause i enjoyed my DB5s. i chose a different brand not because they failed, but because people are getting defective brakes in return and multiple times to boot. why on earth would i waste my time on replacing a second or third time, especially when sram wont pay for their installation. on top of all of it, everyone in the industry seems to be aware of it but its not acknowledged by sram. thats low.

    i picked shimano XTs mainly cause they were in stock and are a good reliable brake. there were problems at first but shimano openly acknowledged that they had an early production run issue.

    if magura had been in stock, or trickstuff, or w/e...it may have been a diff brake on my bike but i went with what was available and they happened to not try to hide defective parts.

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    Ive read this entire thread, am Im still wondering this. The only rebuild kits I have found have been on Ebay. The picture of the piston in the kit doesnt look correct. Will this work, and how do I know if the kit is post malfunction?

  98. #398
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    Me and a buddy both recently bought Motobecane Fantom Plus's with SRAM Guide R's from Bikes Direct both started have the aforementioned problems at about the same time which happened to coincide with last week's heat wave. Nearly locked-up wheels = no fun. I had this problem once before with Avid Elixers and bleeding the brakes cured it.

    Not this time with the Guide brakes; we bled both our bike's brakes and the problem came right back. Obviously something sinister afoot so a search brings me to this thread. BTW I figured out the cooling "off the brakes" trick on my own this time around; the previous time only my rear brake was affected so I disabled it to get back to my truck. Risky business...

    These are new bikes; how in the f*ck is SRAM getting away with this??? Where's the CPSC when needed?

    I think it's a combination of faults; perhaps contaminated brake fluid from the factory, perhaps plastic that swells over time when in contact with brakes fluid, crappy manufacturing QC (injection molds tend to wear larger over time) and just poor design in the first place. (easy for dirt to accumulate in the outer master cylinder bore; mine was quite dirty)
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    The plastic piston is too large for the bore. Nothing more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xblitzkriegx View Post
    The plastic piston is too large for the bore. Nothing more.
    Or the aluminum bore is too small for the plastic piston. Most likely the problem with my Guide R's.

    Took a couple of other Avid master cylinders apart and measured the components.

    Quite a spread in micrometer terms. Couple of thou'.

    Junk.
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