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  1. #201
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    I've been looking more closely. The lever ratio to master cylinder piston movement looks to be different compared to Shimano a entry brakes without servo-wave.

    I may get "crazy" and just buy a zee caliper and hook up my entry lever and see what happens. I'd like more braking power so I can push deeper before braking but the initial hard bite point of servo wave may be a bit of a problem for me.

    I would give new Sram brakes a try but DOT fluid is too much maintanence and its nasty crap (dealt with the crap for decades with vehicles, hate the crap) though I have fluid always on hand lol. On thing I love about Shimano. Set up and done. Don't touch the brakes for a couple years at least.

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  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    I've been looking more closely. The lever ratio to master cylinder piston movement looks to be different compared to Shimano a entry brakes without servo-wave.

    I may get "crazy" and just buy a zee caliper and hook up my entry lever and see what happens. I'd like more braking power so I can push deeper before braking but the initial hard bite point of servo wave may be a bit of a problem for me.

    I would give new Sram brakes a try but DOT fluid is too much maintanence and its nasty crap (dealt with the crap for decades with vehicles, hate the crap) though I have fluid always on hand lol. On thing I love about Shimano. Set up and done. Don't touch the brakes for a couple years at least.

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    That's why I won't switch. Converted my 2000 SWorks FSR to XT 4 pot brakes in 2001. Those brakes have been on several bikes since and are currently on my wife's bike. Never bled, working as good as when I first got them. Mineral Oil lasts forever on your shelf, DOT doesn't.
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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    I may get "crazy" and just buy a zee caliper and hook up my entry lever and see what happens.
    Why not just buy complete ZEE brakes? Most users seem to like them. Not all Shimano levers and callipers will play nice as they can have different 'pull' ratios and use different inner diameter brake lines. I'm not saying that mixing won't work but.

    Servo-wave is not terrible, it's just different. I ride bikes with both servo and non-servo Shimano brakes and it doesn't bother me. I'm happy with either. You just use them slightly differently.

  4. #204
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    I'm used to it from my 29er. But having noticed the initial bite that others don't like (I did) I have been in a mental debate as I know I need more brakes these days. But the initial bite has me concerned.

    Probably just going to go for it.

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  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    I'm used to it from my 29er. But having noticed the initial bite that others don't like (I did) I have been in a mental debate as I know I need more brakes these days. But the initial bite has me concerned.

    Probably just going to go for it.

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    Good Read

    Saint M820 calipers & XTR Race M9000 levers! Possible?
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  6. #206
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    ^^ thanks.

    Seems the zee/saint brakes don't bite as hard. And running other levers work but can be headache inducing.

    Think I'll just dive in an go ZEEs. Having brakes that I not cranking on the levers with all 1 finger has when I need to stop hard and fast will be a welcome change now. Progressing as a rider is a pain sometimes, especially as a clyde

    Thanks guys, sorry I spun the thread off onto shimanos.

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  7. #207
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    I noticed a difference when I went to 203F and 180R rotors
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  8. #208
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    The biggest problem with these manufacturers(be it SRAM, Shimano, or anyone else) who you have to go through a dealer with is that you're dependent on that dealer or LBS. Since a week had gone by, I called the shop. My LBS has multiple locations and pretty much dominates the bike trade around here. They are also about the worst business I have ever dealt with in my 30yrs as an employed and independent consumer.
    Should have known-they hadn't done a thing. Called SRAM after I checked in yesterday, but never called me back. I drove over and got my brakes today, and am going to fix them myself. Have two of the cheaper Guide/DB5 kits with new pistons on the way(no need to buy the RS kit, this doesn't concern the swingarm). Turns out it's a fairly simple job, except for that freaking snapring. Soon as I get some pliers ground down to fit in there, actually changing out the pistons is a <10min job.
    After seeing all the crap built up in there, disassembly and cleaning should probably be done as yearly maintenance, anyway.

    btw, I talked to one of SRAM's warranty guys today. He was messing with a Guide RS lever, and told me he was filing down some snapring pliers to use, because the one in the levers is such a PITA to get hold of. At least I don't feel alone in my frustration about having to buy new pliers and immediatel take a Dremel to them...
    He also checked my serial #s to confirm they were in the same date range as the others with problems. Aside from my obvious issue with not being able to get personal service on any of their products, I wouldn't hesitate to buy, or worry over, more recent Guides, since they should be free of this problem.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenM View Post
    The biggest problem with these manufacturers(be it SRAM, Shimano, or anyone else) who you have to go through a dealer with is that you're dependent on that dealer or LBS. Since a week had gone by, I called the shop. My LBS has multiple locations and pretty much dominates the bike trade around here. They are also about the worst business I have ever dealt with in my 30yrs as an employed and independent consumer.
    Should have known-they hadn't done a thing. Called SRAM after I checked in yesterday, but never called me back. I drove over and got my brakes today, and am going to fix them myself. Have two of the cheaper Guide/DB5 kits with new pistons on the way(no need to buy the RS kit, this doesn't concern the swingarm). Turns out it's a fairly simple job, except for that freaking snapring. Soon as I get some pliers ground down to fit in there, actually changing out the pistons is a <10min job.
    After seeing all the crap built up in there, disassembly and cleaning should probably be done as yearly maintenance, anyway.

    btw, I talked to one of SRAM's warranty guys today. He was messing with a Guide RS lever, and told me he was filing down some snapring pliers to use, because the one in the levers is such a PITA to get hold of. At least I don't feel alone in my frustration about having to buy new pliers and immediatel take a Dremel to them...
    He also checked my serial #s to confirm they were in the same date range as the others with problems. Aside from my obvious issue with not being able to get personal service on any of their products, I wouldn't hesitate to buy, or worry over, more recent Guides, since they should be free of this problem.
    You don't have to go through a dealer for Shimano unlike Sram.
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  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenM View Post
    My LBS has multiple locations and pretty much dominates the bike trade around here. They are also about the worst business I have ever dealt with in my 30yrs as an employed and independent consumer.
    Should have known-they hadn't done a thing.
    We used to have a LBS like that here. Always saying we should buy from them but they didn't keep much in stock. They'd say 'We can order it for you!'. Get them to order then three weeks later, still nothing.

    Thankfully, they are gone and the other shops are great!

    They had my new lever in 2 days and had it installed the same day I took it in.
    Never be afraid to try something new.

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  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmitty View Post
    Another SRAM failure: I posted earlier in the thread about my Guide RSC and they were warranty replaced and working well. Since then I bought a new Tallboy and it came with SRAM Level brakes. Worked great for about 5 months now doing the EXACT SAME THING. Levers not returning, and I left the bike on the car rack in the sun for about 15 minutes and they locked up. After I get these warrantied, I think I'm going to be an XT guy

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    Well I made the switch XT on my Tallboy. The LBS was only going to give me $50 for the SRAM brakes once they come back for warranty. If anybody wants these you can PM me. The shop had about 20 boxes of warrantied SRAM brakes they had swapped out.

    Still have my Guide RSC on my other bike. Working well after the warranty (for now)

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  12. #212
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    Well, I think I might be another 'victim' of the defective Guide RS levers. I picked up a brand new Salsa Bucksaw carbon this past Wednesday. Thursday I piddled around getting seat height and brake and shift lever angles just to my liking, and took a short (street) ride locally just to get a feel for the bike.

    Friday I played around with suspension settings. It was our first day with temperatures in the 70s so I brought the bike out onto my deck to enjoy the fine weather. A neighbor dropped by and we chatted for about 30 minutes; when he left I went to move the bike and the front wheel was practically locked up. The bike had been in direct sunlight aimed at the front of the bike for about 45 minutes. Of course I was ignorant of this thread and this apparently widespread problem at the time, but a quick google search led me here.

    As others have reported, once the levers cooled off when I brought the bike back inside the lever started functioning more normally, but not quite as well as the rear lever which remained unaffected. By morning the front lever was even closer to normal but the travel before pad contact seemed less compared to the rear whereas before the overheating event they seemed the same.

    Okay, so sorry for that long-winded recap. It seems like most people have had problems with their levers after some time, not almost immediately as in my case. This is a (brand new out of the box) leftover 2016 Bucksaw so no doubt it has the non-updated levers, and I wonder if them sitting for so long unused aggravated the problem with the defective piston? Maybe not but the thought did cross my mind...

    For anyone who's interested here are the serial numbers from the calipers (I don't believe the levers have serial numbers, correct?):
    Front: 17T59002388
    Rear: 34T49000631
    The numbers seem to be pretty far apart, so maybe my rear lever is from a 'good' batch, if there is such a thing. I am new to SRAM's part number system, but I would guess the rear is from a later batch due to the higher initial numbers/letter i.e. 17T vs. 34T. Maybe others could post their serial numbers if they wanted to.

    I called LBS where I bought bike on Friday and he (owner/mechanic) said he was unaware of the problem with these brakes. In his defense his shop is fairly new, is in Bismarck, N. Dakota, and sells mostly entry to mid-level bikes as there is not much market for high-end bikes in Bismarck, so he may not have sold many bikes with these brakes. He assured me he would take care of me and I have no doubt he will. He also owns a Bucksaw exactly like mine, but has converted it to Eagle already, so am not sure if that included different brakes and/or levers.
    Shop owner said he called SRAM on Friday late in the day, but everyone had already bailed for the weekend. In any case, he said he would call SRAM first thing Monday morning, and I'll let y'all know what happens.

    The bummer is that I'm heading down to Colorado and Wyoming on Wednesday and was pretty excited about taking the new bike. But, I have lived long enough to know that sometimes these things happen, and a guy can make himself pretty miserable banging his head against a wall in frustration. I guess if they replace the lever(s) I'll just run 'em 'til they fail (again?) and then just go Shimano as I've always liked them and their trouble-free nature. Too bad really as I was pretty impressed with the Guides -- until they were so cruelly defeated by minor exposure to a hot flaming ball in the sky some 93 million miles away.

  13. #213
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    Let us know how it goes. My LBS made me pay for labor for both levers. Said SRAM wouldn't pay for it. Ridiculous!

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottyman View Post
    Let us know how it goes. My LBS made me pay for labor for both levers. Said SRAM wouldn't pay for it. Ridiculous!
    I'll be sure to let every one know how it turns out. I can't believe your LBS made you pay the labor, that's BS. I can't imagine SRAM (or my shop's owner) will try to make me pay labor on a brand new bike. They really don't want to get to know my persuasive side I assure you, but I really don't think it will go there.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmitty View Post
    The shop had about 20 boxes of warrantied SRAM brakes they had swapped out.
    Twenty boxes, in one shop? Gulp! :0.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottyman View Post
    Let us know how it goes. My LBS made me pay for labor for both levers. Said SRAM wouldn't pay for it. Ridiculous!
    I thought some more about this Scottyman, and thought I'd reply as you made this statement I believe twice in this thread now and nobody responded. You didn't state whether the bike and/or brakes were still under warranty which could influence how SRAM handles the labor angle, but conversely there's a whole bunch of anectodal and other evidence out there that this is a known problem with these brakes which should somewhat mitigate their in-or-out of warranty status.

    In most all cases like this the smart, responsive thing for a company to do would be to perform a goodwill replacement of the part along with covering the labor. In other words, or, in the words of product liability attorneys, do you feel like you've been 'made whole' by SRAM's resolution of the problem? Or not?

    Really it's up to them what taste gets left in your mouth by the experience. Will it be sweet and forgiving? Or will it be bitter and long lasting with commensurate damage to their reputation?

    Myself, I've never had to deal with a SRAM warranty issue before, so I'm keeping an open mind at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxeymum View Post
    I thought some more about this Scottyman, and thought I'd reply as you made this statement I believe twice in this thread now and nobody responded. You didn't state whether the bike and/or brakes were still under warranty which could influence how SRAM handles the labor angle, but conversely there's a whole bunch of anectodal and other evidence out there that this is a known problem with these brakes which should somewhat mitigate their in-or-out of warranty status.

    In most all cases like this the smart, responsive thing for a company to do would be to perform a goodwill replacement of the part along with covering the labor. In other words, or, in the words of product liability attorneys, do you feel like you've been 'made whole' by SRAM's resolution of the problem? Or not?

    Really it's up to them what taste gets left in your mouth by the experience. Will it be sweet and forgiving? Or will it be bitter and long lasting with commensurate damage to their reputation?

    Myself, I've never had to deal with a SRAM warranty issue before, so I'm keeping an open mind at this point.
    Yes, the brakes were under warranty. Otherwise, I would have simply gone XT.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottyman View Post
    Yes, the brakes were under warranty. Otherwise, I would have simply gone XT.
    Man, it almost sounds like your shop just didn't want to be bothered with what I assume would be some paperwork required to have SRAM reimburse them for the labor. Maybe someone more intimately acquainted with how these claims work in a shop can chime in as I can't claim to have any expertise on those procedures. I just know that when any part still under warranty has failed on any motorcycle or car I've ever owned labor was always covered by the dealer/manufacturer. As a matter of fact, the question of who would pay labor never even came up. This is why I suspect your dealer is just lazy, incompetent, ineffective or all of the above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxeymum View Post
    Man, it almost sounds like your shop just didn't want to be bothered with what I assume would be some paperwork required to have SRAM reimburse them for the labor. Maybe someone more intimately acquainted with how these claims work in a shop can chime in as I can't claim to have any expertise on those procedures. I just know that when any part still under warranty has failed on any motorcycle or car I've ever owned labor was always covered by the dealer/manufacturer. As a matter of fact, the question of who would pay labor never even came up. This is why I suspect your dealer is just lazy, incompetent, ineffective or all of the above.
    You left out dishonest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottyman View Post
    You left out dishonest.
    Indeed I did -- I absolutely should've mentioned that. Myself, I'm not one to let people get away with things so easily. I'd call SRAM and recap the whole sordid story of how your dealer treated your warranty claim. The dealer will either get their act together which will benefit fellow consumers, or their reputation will one day catch up to them. And you might even get reimbursed for the labor after all.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxeymum View Post
    This is why I suspect your dealer is just lazy, incompetent, ineffective or all of the above.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scottyman View Post
    You left out dishonest.
    Y'all have my LBS pegged! Knew better than to get them involved. They're the reason I have so many tools, and have learned to do everything bike-related except build wheels.

    My lever internals kits and Knipex 4811J1 pliers(edit for the sake of anyone who might read this later and consider the 4811J1 for the same use: these did require a few minutes with a file on the top/bottom/outside edges of the prongs to fit the snapring) are both coming tomorrow. I may be out another $40, but it beats having to deal with other people.
    Just paid ~$9ea for the kits + $4 shipping. DIY may be a good option for anyone who doesn't mind a few minutes' work and a brake bleed.
    Beautiful weather all week, so hopefully I'll be up and running tomorrow
    Last edited by OwenM; 04-10-2017 at 01:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenM View Post
    Y'all have my LBS pegged! Knew better than to get them involved. They're the reason I have so many tools, and have learned to do everything bike-related except build wheels.

    My lever internals kits and Knipex 4811J1 pliers(which should be perfect-I hope, I hope!) are both coming tomorrow. I may be out another $40, but it beats having to deal with other people.
    Just paid ~$9ea for the kits + $4 shipping. DIY may be a good option for anyone who doesn't mind a few minutes' work and a brake bleed.
    Beautiful weather all week, so hopefully I'll be up and running tomorrow
    Yes, sir, agreed. Same here with my LMS (local motorcycle shop). I'm much better at maintaining and repairing my motorcycles than I was 10 years ago. Their incompetence forced me to up my game.

    I'll get this set warrantied as it's a new bike, but if I don't decide to switch to Shimano at some point, I'll try the rebuild kit as you are.

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    I even talked to SRAM directly and they said they go "by a case by case basis" (about labor costs) which doesn't make any sense to me because the brakes were under warranty and labor SHOULD be included for repairing their damn defective product. I don't know who's being the #ssholes, SRAM or my LBS.

  24. #224
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    SRAM said what!!?
    It's not their choice to do so, their product is defective, so it's their obligation to make right by you, it's not an option.
    And your LBS is full of shit, if my LBS tried to extort me money to repair anything under warranty you can be sure I would be calling the cops.

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    Well, that is surprising, and disappointing, Scottyman. Apparently they aren't required under all warranty conditions to cover the labor (I just looked up some Fed. Trade Commission regulations) for a warrantied part, but, wow, is it stupid of them not to, especially, as you say, if they're replacing a defective design part. It's called goodwill -- and can in all cases be exercised at their discretion. As I said previously, it's up to them what kind of taste they leave in your mouth regarding their company.

    I will object strenuously, and I mean STRENUOUSLY, if they try this in my case. Is it really worth it to SRAM to cheap out on a warranty repair if that customer in future goes out of their way to avoid their product, not to mention bad mouths them to whoever will listen? I would say nope, not even close to worth it...

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    I'll chime in on something here:

    Did through SRAMs warranty policy. There is usually a part of it specifying time frame from purchase that labor is included. Like in most products there is a limited time frame before say a customer is required to pay the shipping back to the company for warranty repair/replacement.

    If you take your car to a shop and have a part replaced, the part itself is warranties, labor is not. Depending on how labor intensive the replacement is determines how much labor the shop may be gracious and not charge for. But NO manufacturer (outside of the actual car manufacturers) of parts in the auto industry or pretty much any other covers labor charges. If labor is covered in a warranty matter, then that's because the shop (or whatever industry independent service center) charges you a lot higher rates up front to offset the costs of eating labor on something they have no control over.

    Now of you bought your bike at said shop and spend more there than just the bike, then I too would expect labor to be covered on something as simple as fixing brakes. If not then can't expect them to eat the charge. Its in every brands warranty policy that installed parts are governed by that companies warranty policy. In this case SRAM.

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  27. #227
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    OK, warranty must be different in different countries, because if something brakes under warranty, I don't have to pay nothing in my country, if I bought it online at most I have to pay shippings, and that's it.
    Make you pay for repairs for something that you bought new and is defective is, without a better word, extortion.
    If he bought the brakes and the bike as a whole, why should he pay for them to repair it. It doesn't make sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    I'll chime in on something here:

    Did through SRAMs warranty policy. There is usually a part of it specifying time frame from purchase that labor is included. Like in most products there is a limited time frame before say a customer is required to pay the shipping back to the company for warranty repair/replacement.

    If you take your car to a shop and have a part replaced, the part itself is warranties, labor is not. Depending on how labor intensive the replacement is determines how much labor the shop may be gracious and not charge for. But NO manufacturer (outside of the actual car manufacturers) of parts in the auto industry or pretty much any other covers labor charges. If labor is covered in a warranty matter, then that's because the shop (or whatever industry independent service center) charges you a lot higher rates up front to offset the costs of eating labor on something they have no control over.

    Now of you bought your bike at said shop and spend more there than just the bike, then I too would expect labor to be covered on something as simple as fixing brakes. If not then can't expect them to eat the charge. Its in every brands warranty policy that installed parts are governed by that companies warranty policy. In this case SRAM.

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    I'm not sure if what you assert in the second paragraph operates here. It sounds like you're describing a shop that is not an official dealer's shop, but in either case you need to be more specific about it. I'm talking about OEM parts still under warranty whereas the scenario you describe could be either in or out of warranty or could be an official dealer's shop or a independent shop. Not trying to bust your chops, I'm just saying your scenario is a little too vague to be of much help here. If a part fails on your say, Honda or Toyota, while the vehicle is still under warranty, parts AND labor will be covered by the manufacturer. Also, and this might address your assertion in the second paragraph -- if your OEM Kayaba struts on your Honda fail, or the OEM Nippondenso ignition components on your Toyota fail, Honda and Toyota will still cover labor even though they were not the manufacturer of the parts, but merely purchased them from an official supplier. In my case, SRAM is in effect an official supplier to Salsa bicycles. However, I acknowledge that the arrangement in the bicycle industry may be treated somewhat differently than what I above described for the typical automobile. If it is I have to wonder why. Are the margins so thin in the bicycle business that they will fight harder for the labor costs? Could be, and if that's the case, I have some empathy. But again, at least in my case, I don't feel obligated whatsoever to cover the labor costs to replace a part on a brand new bike. I'd call it PR suicide to start pissing off people with a new bike, especially in the case of these brakes with the known and widely acknowledged defective pistons.

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    Actually yes my response was broad (and mistyped a couple words).

    There is a HUGE difference there though that your missing.

    Honda holds the legal rights to those struts. They are Honda specific. They are made by say Kayaba but Honda owns the rights too them and it's a specific contract. Struts are made specifically off Honda's design requirements. Kayaba cannot produce those exact same shocks for ANYONE. (I spent the last few years in manufacturing, and my entire adult life as an automotive technician, learn a lot more than I excepted would be of any use). Same with Toyotas ignition. It's designed and manufactured specifically for Toyota. Toyota owns the rights and everything (including any specialized tooling required). This goes for ALL major automotive brands. Hell even applies to things like your weed trimmer.

    That way of thinking is the same as saying Giant should warranty a Trek frame because Giant owned factories build the Trek frames.

    Sram DOES NOT make brakes specific to brand of bikes so there is no intellectual property contract. Like ALMOST all of the products Sram or Shimano makes, they are more or less universal between bikes. So they are then classified as "aftermarket" in a basic sense. Only exception is the case where a components company makes a brand bike/frame specific component.

    Like I said, read ANY major brands warranty policy. Like Trek for instance because it's widely known. They have their own brand of wheels, tires and such. Those are covered under Treks warranty, clearly posted on their warranty over view all other non-trek/bontrager branded components are subject to "fill in fox, Sram, Shimano, etc here" warranty policies. Since the brakes are made for all bikes that except hydraulic disc with straight bars, they are not bike/brand specific and subject to SRAMs warranty.

    So if the failure of the brakes was in the first couple rides, chances are brand will cover labor. If it's several months down the road Sram has no way (not making an excuse here as it's well documented of these specific brake failures, typical Sram/avid brake BS) of knowing if the brakes were truly a manufacturing/design defect or some outside condition caused the failure.

    All that said, OPs bike was bought at said Lbs new and so on, the LBS under normal circumstances should cover the labor (it takes less than 20 minutes to swap out brakes) but we only know what's posted here.

    SRAM should be covering labor in this sense due to the fact it's a known issue but they may be stopping due to the huge losses their taking as some shops likely charge far more than what they would charge a regular customer to install. Just like doctor's charge insurance almost twice to insurance companies than they charge to a person who is or will be paying cash. We don't know LBS - Sram relationship and likely a cause for hesitation to cover labor. They should take some info from.the automotive industry on this. They time their fastest and most skilled engineer to swap out brakes. That amount of time (warranty flat rate) or flat dollar amount to all shops for labor and done.

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    RAKC Ind, thanks for your educational and informed answer. I understand what you're saying about Kayaba struts etc. being proprietary to Honda and even to specific models in their lineup, and I can now more clearly see how the supplier relationship is different in the automotive and bicycle industries.

    As to the comment about some bicycle shops charging SRAM much more than others for warranty labor, I guess I'd say SRAM ought to establish some standard rates, but that's ultimately their problem alone, and it shouldn't make it more likely that the shop will require the customer to eat warranty labor costs.

    I also think SRAM have put themselves in this position with their quality control failure to ensure an erroneous size variance in this cheap nylon piston didn't set off the chain reaction that has led to who-knows-how-big of a warranty claim. No doubt it's eating into their bottom line, but again, I would posit that it's wrong, unethical even, if SRAM has in mind to mitigate the cost by passing some of the labor costs along to the customer. Excepting of course those cases as you mentioned where the product has been in service for a certain amount of time and it becomes harder to determine if there are other factors now in play.

    Anyways, all very interesting and educational. Now I'm even more curious to see what my outcome is come tomorrow morning. I don't really expect any trouble as the bike has been ridden twice and not even off road yet, but I think our conversation is more concerned with people who are in a different circumstance with brakes still, however, under warranty. Cheers.

  31. #231
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    I paid my LBS labor to replace my rear DB5 lever. They didn't sell me the bike (that LBS closed) so it wasn't a big deal.

    As to covering the labor on a warranty claim, it varies quite a bit from company to company. It's normally covered by the original seller/installer.

    For example, my wife and I bought a new house 3 years ago. The HVAC system crapped out. The original installer was out of business so I had to call another HVAC dealer for the repairs. The manufacturer covered the cost of the parts under the warranty but I had to pay the new HVAC dealer for their labor to install.

    The auto industry is set up differently in that they cover both parts and labor for warranty repairs made under the original vehicle warranty. They usually only cover the part and not the labor on replacement parts installed after the original vehicle warranty has expired.

    Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus...s_Warranty_Act
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    UPDATE: Just spoke to my bike shop. New updated levers front and rear on the way from SRAM. Only my front was locking up in the heat, but to recap I submitted the serial# for both front and rear in case both fell into the serial# range of defective levers (whatever that may be as I don't think the public has any idea).

    If they arrive tomorrow and get installed ASAP I'll be able to take the bike with me on my CO/WY trip I have coming up on Wednesday. I texted owner to ask if they're overnighting them, but all he said was that they are coming from Chicago so they might get here in time.

    We didn't discuss who will pay for labor as I am not going to mention it and am going to operate on the assumption that it won't be me.

    Will give more updates as I get them. Cheers.

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    I've had a dozen Avid brakes over the years and despite all my friends and my LBS having all sorts of issues, I never had one. Never even had to bleed any of them. Well, my luck has finally caught up - I have two sets of Guide RSCs, and both are junk. One set I got from a friend a couple years ago so I'm sure SRAM won't do crap for those, the other set is just over a year old. This should be a recall, this is not an isolated issue it's a bad design. It's a shame to pay this much for a brake to have these issues - a cheap, low end model would be more expected and I'd be more ok if I had issues with a set of Elixir 1s - but over $200 each and after a year they're junk... I'll be doing the sandpaper trick but these will be the last (especially higher end) SRAM brakes I buy. Shame because I did like them when they work.

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    this is the information i received from SRAM regarding my faulty brakes... this should be a recalled item. My brakes failed while out on the trail... dangerous situation for sure.

    ank you for your message. We’d be happy to assist you through our warranty and service process. SRAM has a two year from purchase date warranty policy on all products. We facilitate all of our warranties and service evaluations via local bicycle dealers at your original point of purchase. Please bring your brakes and your original proof of purchase to the bike dealer you've bought it through, and they will be able to contact our affiliate service center in their area for a warranty claim assessment. While not a recalled item (which is heavily regulated by the CPSC) we do have an updated brake internals kit for this issue and are covering these items under warranty.

    The manufacture date on the spares package does mean something- what we mean is that we don't have visibility if a part has been installed into a brake or fork after it has left the factory. We don't have a way of tracking your modifications once they have been completed outside of our system.

    That being said, we updated the piston kit on week 26 of 2016. Your kits look to be the updated versions. If you are continuing to have issues with your brakes, please have your local dealer contact our Dealer Service warranty center. We are aware of this issue, and are working to fix or replace levers with any dealer that contacts us with this concern.

  35. #235
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    Ok good to know. Is there a way to know the date of the brakes?? Is there somewhere in the serial number?

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    Quick Update on my Guide RS situation: As related earlier, my front lever was not returning on a brand new bike so my bike shop called SRAM which agreed to send new Fr. & Rr. levers. I was heading down to CO & WY to do some riding and wanted to take the new bike but was concerned about the front brake locking in the sunlight and out on the trail. Picture attached of my temporary solution, which did, in fact, allow me to ride trouble-free for three days. Insulated foam tape covering top two sides of master, wrapped in white athletic tape to keep everything cool. Custom 'Ouch' graphic applied via Sharpie. BTW, bike shop called while I was on trip and new levers have arrived. Bringing bike in Friday to get levers replaced.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Guide RS Levers not Returning: Replaced Under Warranty-img_1008-2-.jpg  


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    I'm waiting for my Guides to lock up as it heats up this spring, and it makes me wonder why they didn't stop painting them black as one of the first steps to remedy the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    I'm waiting for my Guides to lock up as it heats up this spring, and it makes me wonder why they didn't stop painting them black as one of the first steps to remedy the situation.
    I think the black color certainly doesn't help, but think that even if they were silver like the RSCs they would still 'overheat' the pistons once the air temp got above a certain level, like, say, 85 or 90 degrees and up. Just a suspicion mind you.

  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxeymum View Post
    I think the black color certainly doesn't help, but think that even if they were silver like the RSCs they would still 'overheat' the pistons once the air temp got above a certain level, like, say, 85 or 90 degrees and up. Just a suspicion mind you.
    Yep, the color won't save you.

    The white Codes were doing the exact same thing nearly ten years ago.

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxeymum View Post
    I think the black color certainly doesn't help, but think that even if they were silver like the RSCs they would still 'overheat' the pistons once the air temp got above a certain level, like, say, 85 or 90 degrees and up. Just a suspicion mind you.
    it's the combination of direct sunlight + black casing that causes the issue to appear. Go outside and touch a black and a white car to feel the difference it makes.

    If the casing was white there wouldn't be nearly as many problems reported. My brakes worked fine till I rode them in direct sunlight on a hot day. I think just putting white tape on the lever casing alone would remedy the issue for most people. Unfortunately I already got mine swapped so I cannot try that out myself.

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxeymum View Post
    Quick Update on my Guide RS situation: As related earlier, my front lever was not returning on a brand new bike so my bike shop called SRAM which agreed to send new Fr. & Rr. levers. I was heading down to CO & WY to do some riding and wanted to take the new bike but was concerned about the front brake locking in the sunlight and out on the trail. Picture attached of my temporary solution, which did, in fact, allow me to ride trouble-free for three days. Insulated foam tape covering top two sides of master, wrapped in white athletic tape to keep everything cool. Custom 'Ouch' graphic applied via Sharpie. BTW, bike shop called while I was on trip and new levers have arrived. Bringing bike in Friday to get levers replaced.
    Maybe try taping an ice pack to them when it heats up this summer....

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  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by ban View Post
    Ok good to know. Is there a way to know the date of the brakes?? Is there somewhere in the serial number?
    Yes my serial number was 7APR15A which means manufactured in april of 2015. My LBS which I didn't buy the bike from, got a new set of guide ultimate levers from SRAM covered under warranty at no charge. I did the parts swap myself but they would've charged me $25 for a bleed if they had done it.
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  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by zendo View Post
    Yes my serial number was 7APR15A which means manufactured in april of 2015. My LBS which I didn't buy the bike from, got a new set of guide ultimate levers from SRAM covered under warranty at no charge. I did the parts swap myself but they would've charged me $25 for a bleed if they had done it.
    Hmmm...that's part of the serial number, with the date of manufacture? Did you get that from the caliper?

    My numbers from the caliper were: Front: 17T59002388
    Rear: 34T49000631

  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxeymum View Post
    Hmmm...that's part of the serial number, with the date of manufacture? Did you get that from the caliper?

    My numbers from the caliper were: Front: 17T59002388
    Rear: 34T49000631
    Guide RS Levers not Returning: Replaced Under Warranty-img_1821.jpg
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  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    it's the combination of direct sunlight + black casing that causes the issue...
    Nope. It's buying the darn things in the first place! How long is it that Avid/SRAM brakes have been known to be unreliable? A decade maybe? So the issue is why people still buy them.

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Nope. It's buying the darn things in the first place! How long is it that Avid/SRAM brakes have been known to be unreliable? A decade maybe? So the issue is why people still buy them.
    Well the name changed, doesn't that make a difference?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Nope. It's buying the darn things in the first place! How long is it that Avid/SRAM brakes have been known to be unreliable? A decade maybe? So the issue is why people still buy them.
    I know some people with Avid brakes that have had years of reliable, trouble-free service, so it's not like every single one is bad. As to the Guides, I didn't buy them 'in the first place' -- they came on the bike, will be replaced under warranty free of cost, so at this point it would IMHO be stupid (and expensive) to replace them with something else. There's no evidence I believe that the upgraded levers are having the same issue. Rest assured if they become a pain in my A** once the warranty period is up (2 years hence) I'll be swapping them for something else, most likely Shimano, but to say all Avid are unreliable --which is what you implied -- is at best a stretch and also a wildly general statement.

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxeymum View Post
    ..to say all Avid are unreliable --which is what you implied -- is at best a stretch..
    All of the people I know who have or used to have Avid/SRAM brakes have had problems with them. I first became aware of the issues through friend's bikes, not the internet. Of course no every brake is going to feck up but even if it's fifty-percent, twenty-percent, it's still far too likely for me.

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    All of the people I know who have or used to have Avid/SRAM brakes have had problems with them. I first became aware of the issues through friend's bikes, not the internet. Of course no every brake is going to feck up but even if it's fifty-percent, twenty-percent, it's still far too likely for me.
    Fair enough, Mr. Pig. I gotta say though, I'm pretty new to the forum, and am already well aware of your aversion to Avid/SRAM brakes -- I mean I don't know if you think you're doing the world a public service by alerting us over-and-over-and-over again about these brakes, but seriously, and I'm not trying to offend you, don't you think you're getting into beating-a-dead-horse-to-death-territory-here?

  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Nope. It's buying the darn things in the first place! How long is it that Avid/SRAM brakes have been known to be unreliable? A decade maybe? So the issue is why people still buy them.
    people don't buy them - they come stock on their bikes. I offered a quick fix for the only major Guide issue out there.

    The new Shimano brakes have a huge bite point changing issue which can only be remedied by changing to a 3rd party mineral oil. And Maguras MT5 are quite good as long as you've hand size 12.

  51. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxeymum View Post
    I don't know if you think you're doing the world a public service by alerting us over-and-over-and-over again about these brakes...
    Actually I do. I don't hate SRAM, perfectly happy with RockShox forks, but why the heck should I not call them out on a poor product?

    I can't think of any other brand of brake that is as unreliable as Avid/SRAM, can you? Formula don't seem to be brilliant but I don't think they're as bad as SRAM. Even the cheaper brands are fine. Most people don't seem to have difficulty in making brakes that work. What the deal is with the people behind the SRAM/Avid brakes I do not know but yes, I do feel that users and potential buyers should be warned that this is almost certainly the most unreliable brand of brake available. If I was the head of SRAM I'd sack the whole design department.

  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    People don't buy them - they come stock on their bikes.
    And? I have a bike that came with Formula brakes. I read up about them, got the impression that they were likely to be temperamental so took them off and sold them.

    Sure, other companies have the odd issue with their brakes but it's nothing like Avid/SRAM. I could easily forgive them if they had a problem, sorted it out and that was the end of it but no. Year after year it's the same tired story, 'my SRAM/Avid brakes have stuck'. When is it going to end? When are they going to fix them properly?

  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxeymum View Post
    I know some people with Avid brakes that have had years of reliable, trouble-free service, so it's not like every single one is bad. As to the Guides, I didn't buy them 'in the first place' -- they came on the bike, will be replaced under warranty free of cost, so at this point it would IMHO be stupid (and expensive) to replace them with something else. There's no evidence I believe that the upgraded levers are having the same issue. Rest assured if they become a pain in my A** once the warranty period is up (2 years hence) I'll be swapping them for something else, most likely Shimano, but to say all Avid are unreliable --which is what you implied -- is at best a stretch and also a wildly general statement.
    It's really simple, why do you think Sram dropped the Avid name? Avid was synonymous with horrible brakes.
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  54. #254
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    Actually the Guide brake is half "Avid" (the caliper from the Avid Trail) half "Sram" (completely the new lever)

    funnily enough the Sram part is the one causing troubles

    I still love the Guide though. For me it's the best brake on the market. Raw power is enough with 200mm discs front while modulation and ergonomics are top notch.

    I don't like Maguras huge levers or Shimanos Servo Wave on / off like modulation, I don't bother with overpriced Hope stuff or brakes from a looser companies like Hayes or Tektro.

  55. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    It's really simple, why do you think Sram dropped the Avid name? Avid was synonymous with horrible brakes.
    Because they want the name SRAM to be synonymous with horrible brakes?

  56. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxeymum View Post
    Fair enough, Mr. Pig. I gotta say though, I'm pretty new to the forum, and am already well aware of your aversion to Avid/SRAM brakes -- I mean I don't know if you think you're doing the world a public service by alerting us over-and-over-and-over again about these brakes, but seriously, and I'm not trying to offend you, don't you think you're getting into beating-a-dead-horse-to-death-territory-here?
    SRAM brakes are shit.

    I have one set not last more than a month. Sent back for Warranty and they upgraded them. Sold as soon as I got them.

    Wife's bike, 2016 Salsa Mukluk. rear brakes is failing. Need to do a warranty replacement already. bike is 2 months old.

    My stache 9.6 came with Guides. Rode them one time. Replaced with XT's

    For some they work. for others they do not. The problem is the O-rings in the cylinder along with heat. In AZ it's supposed to be 100 degs this weekend already.

    No one needs a seasonal set of brakes when my XT's and XTR's have workED without any problems,

    When they do work and have been broken in correctly. They feel good and have awesome stopping power. They aren't very reliable, moreso in my area.
    Too Many .

  57. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    Actually the Guide brake is half "Avid" (the caliper from the Avid Trail) half "Sram" (completely the new lever)

    funnily enough the Sram part is the one causing troubles

    I still love the Guide though. For me it's the best brake on the market. Raw power is enough with 200mm discs front while modulation and ergonomics are top notch.

    I don't like Maguras huge levers or Shimanos Servo Wave on / off like modulation, I don't bother with overpriced Hope stuff or brakes from a looser companies like Hayes or Tektro.
    Have you tried Shimano Race levers? No servo wave.
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    Anyone else care to join in? Please click image for some really nifty animation!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Guide RS Levers not Returning: Replaced Under Warranty-kqlpb0irghwiy.gif  


  59. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxeymum View Post
    Anyone else care to join in? Please click image for some really nifty animation!
    So you've never seen a CCW thread here, huh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    So you've never seen a CCW thread here, huh?
    CCW? Sorry, don't get the reference...

  61. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxeymum View Post
    Anyone else care to join in? Please click image for some really nifty animation!
    You're missing the point. Yes, I am saying exactly the same thing as I've been saying for years but the problems are not over. Shimano has had leaking callipers but that was years ago, the issue was fixed and it no longer applies so there is no point in mentioning it unless someone pops up with an old effected set of brakes.

    Every time SRAM/Avid bring out new brakes the story is that they are fixed now, nothing to worry about, and every time it's not very long before the forum posts start popping up. My new SRAM brakes are stuck. It's a joke. I honestly don't know how a company the size of SRAM can muck products up this badly.

    So the point is that it's an ongoing problem. If two or three years pass and no one has any problems with new SRAM brakes then ok, maybe it's safe to give them the benefit of the doubt but as yet it hasn't happened. And until they can prove that their brakes are reliable I think it's only fair to warn people of the trouble they could be buying.

    It's not for my benefit. I wouldn't touch SRAM brakes with a ten-foot pole, with you tied to the end of it! ;0) I am genuinely just trying to help fellow bikers avoid grief. I have had rides ruined by friend's brakes seizing on and it's rubbish. If I can help one person avoid that then cool.

  62. #262
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    Yes Avid / Sram made some mistakes in the past but it's all forgiven and the Guide working now in 2017

  63. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    Yes Avid / Sram made some mistakes in the past but it's all forgiven and the Guide working now in 2017
    No, if they are still working in two years? Then we can talk.

  64. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    No, if they are still working in two years? Then we can talk.
    But they're working fine since I got them swapped last year so nothing to worry.

    I think they'll continue going strong (...forever) and if not I'll have them repaired in secret (and open thread for help in other Internet forum) to escape public embarrassment.

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    Quick Update: Had both my Guide RS levers replaced with the updated levers under warranty yesterday even though only the front was overheating. I didn't have to pay any labor charges in case anyone is wondering, but as mentioned previously the bike (a 2016 Salsa Bucksaw carbon) was only a few days old when the front lever 'overheated.' I guess the new levers will still be under SRAM's two year warranty so I will give them that long to prove themselves. Or not. I understand some of the pent up frustration and disgust some of you out there have with Avid/SRAM brakes, but I'm new to the brand and am keeping a (cautiously) open mind for now. I will also admit it is an economic decision at this point -- I simply can't justify dropping $200-300 for new brakes when it was a bit of a stretch to buy the bike in the first place and the brakes I DO HAVE will be under warranty for two years, and, as we speak, are functioning perfectly (and quite powerfully I might add).

    If any problems do crop up from this day forward, I will offer full and honest disclosure. I do enjoy seeing a dead horse being beaten.

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    I wouldn't call this beating a dead horse. Give it a year or so w/o any new problems and it will be.

  67. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxeymum View Post
    the bike (a 2016 Salsa Bucksaw carbon) was only a few days old
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxeymum View Post
    I will also admit it is an economic decision at this point -- I simply can't justify dropping $200-300 for new brakes when it was a bit of a stretch to buy the bike in the first place
    cmon that's almost like saying "I just bought a Porsche but cannot afford the fuel". You obviously overstretched your budget and are now stuck with mediocre brakes on a great bike (hey I'm stuck with great brakes on a mediocre bike)

    If you buy an Avid/Sram brakes equipped bike always leave enough funds on the table to be ready for a full brake swap (ask Mr. Pig for confirmation)

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxeymum View Post
    I understand some of the pent up frustration and disgust some of you out there have with Avid/SRAM brakes, but I'm new to the brand and am keeping a (cautiously) open mind for now.
    I sometimes leave my bike standing outside in the rain just to "give the brakes a lesson"

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxeymum View Post
    If any problems do crop up from this day forward, I will offer full and honest disclosure.
    Nooo!! Keep it a secret or Mr. Pig will be all over you! If he just knew what suffering I went through the last two years...

  68. #268
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    I don't understand why people continue to use poor brakes, the older avids we known to have issues, sounds like the new ones aren't much better, so many warranty claims.

    Could be a hospital trip having a brake fail at the wrong time... No thanks.

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    Well, Mr. Steel Calf, it's pretty obvious you've been traumatized by whatever you went through with your Avid/SRAM brakes, but just because you react one way doesn't mean the rest of us should.

    I think your analogies are more than a little overblown, not to mention pretty off base. Seriously? A $100k Porsche you can't buy fuel for? It wasn't so much of a stretch for me to buy the bike in a financial sense, I should clarify and say it was a bit of a stretch to justify it when I already had a pretty high-end bike. As far as I'm concerned, the only reason for me to buy different brakes at this point is by justifying it through some mental gymnastics I don't feel compelled to perform. Could I go buy new brakes if I wanted? Yes. Will I? Not at this point. Please understand this is my decision, not yours, and you shouldn't lose any sleep over it. I do hope you someday recover from your Avid/SRAM trauma and can move on with your life. Have you and Mr. Pig ever considered starting a Avid/SRAM support group? It could do you and maybe a lot of other people a real service. Ha.

    Not sure what your statement about leaving the bike out in the rain means, but I can only assume you are unjustifiably punishing the entire bike for the sins of the brakes. Seems very unfair to me.

    Oh, and please take my reply in the spirit of good fun it is intended. Rock on, brother.

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    Well the difference is I'm running Guide RSCs since 2014 and love them while Mr. Pig is not running any Guides but still joining every Sram Guide thread to educate people on how bad they're.

    The only major issue with the Guide is the sticky lever syndrome which can be remedied on the fly by cooling down the lever housing (just carry some cold water for you AND the lever...)

  71. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    Well the difference is I'm running Guide RSCs since 2014 and love them while Mr. Pig is not running any Guides but still joining every Sram Guide thread to educate people on how bad they're.
    That is true. It is also true that I have never been hit by a train. I did however have a friend who was hit by a train. Are you suggesting that unless I get hit by a train myself, I am not qualified to tell you that it's a bad idea?

    Carrying extra water to keep your brakes functioning, that's a good idea though. If you were doing a long ride in hot weather, how much water would it be sensible to carry? And how do you keep the water cold? Maybe ice would be better. You could carry an ice bucket and a strap to hold ice on the lever?

  72. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Carrying extra water to keep your brakes functioning, that's a good idea though. If you were doing a long ride in hot weather, how much water would it be sensible to carry? And how do you keep the water cold? Maybe ice would be better. You could carry an ice bucket and a strap to hold ice on the lever?
    Yes, you'd have to ration your water between yourself and the brakes.
    Too little water for you -> dehydration
    Too little water for the lever -> sticky lever

    Newbies often struggle to find a balance between these two demands, but if you drank too much water you could still piss on the brakes...

    Note: The water doesn't have to be ice cold to work (google evaporation chill)

    + the cold water is only meant as a quick fix. I recommend simply white tape as it equally keeps the lever housing cool (and thieves away from a bike that looks broken)

    As you can see pointing out the problem is not enough. You've to offer a solution.

    I hope your friend wasn't hit by a train because his Avid/Sram brakes failed?

  73. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    I hope your friend wasn't hit by a train because his Avid/Sram brakes failed?
    No, just an idiot.

  74. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    Well the difference is I'm running Guide RSCs since 2014 and love them while Mr. Pig is not running any Guides but still joining every Sram Guide thread to educate people on how bad they're.

    The only major issue with the Guide is the sticky lever syndrome which can be remedied on the fly by cooling down the lever housing (just carry some cold water for you AND the lever...)

    LMAO, really.
    SO what is one to do when its over 100 outside? Make a water drip system to keep the brake system cool?

    screw that. Brakes need to work 100% of the time. No cool them off when they feel odd. At that point they need to be replaced. Hell my Wife's brake locked up today at a MTB clinic along with 2 other riders who have new bikes with Guide brakes.
    Too Many .

  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent701 View Post
    Hell my Wife's brake locked up today at a MTB clinic along with 2 other riders who have new bikes with Guide brakes.
    As stated many times in the history of mankind, women and engineering do not mix.

    And no one knows at that MTB clinic how to cool down a Guide brake? That should be common knowledge by now!

  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    As stated many times in the history of mankind, women and engineering do not mix.

    And no one knows at that MTB clinic how to cool down a Guide brake? That should be common knowledge by now!
    As I said. Brakes should not need to be cooled down to work.
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  77. #277
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    Every human needs to be cooled down to work which makes the Guides human in some sense.

  78. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    As stated many times in the history of mankind, women and engineering do not mix.

    And no one knows at that MTB clinic how to cool down a Guide brake? That should be common knowledge by now!
    I bet you there are more than a couple women who could have engineered that MC properly. It's obvious whoever they hired couldn't pull it off.

  79. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    I bet you there are more than a couple women who could have engineered that MC properly. It's obvious whoever they hired couldn't pull it off.
    Probably a man?

  80. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Probably a man?
    Most definitely a man, no woman would be dumb enough to try to develop a brake for Avid that would work.

  81. #281
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    Count me in as another pledge to not use SRAM brakes. Having your wheel seize/rub in middle of a 50 mile ride (hot day) due to levers not retracting gets to you. Also seems like careless management when the problem is known so long and not fixed.

  82. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackieTreehorn8 View Post
    Count me in as another pledge to not use SRAM brakes. Having your wheel seize/rub in middle of a 50 mile ride (hot day) due to levers not retracting gets to you. Also seems like careless management when the problem is known so long and not fixed.
    Hello, Sram Guide lover here.

    It's user error. Either put some white tape on the lever housing so it cannot heat up in direct sunlight or use cold water to cool it down. With these measures in place, the brakes should last you for a long time (at least a year, maybe even longer) till they need replacement for sudden failure.

  83. #283
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    I've got the Guide RSC levers on my bike. They started sticking and just got progressively worse. I ordered 2 internals repair kits as I did not want to lose my bike for a week or more. The kits arrived and the job was SIMPLE! I hear other levers have a snap ring that's a pain, not on the RSC lever. Took me about 15 minutes per lever.


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  84. #284
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    Positive note. SRAM fixed my wife's Guides while I was out racing Whiskey Off Road this weekend. Dudes were really cool. charged us nothing. Explained the whole reason they problem is even there.
    Brakes work amazing she said.
    Real test is when its over 90. which will be by this weekend if not tomorrow.
    Too Many .

  85. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    Hello, Sram Guide lover here.

    It's user error. Either put some white tape on the lever housing so it cannot heat up in direct sunlight or use cold water to cool it down. With these measures in place, the brakes should last you for a long time (at least a year, maybe even longer) till they need replacement for sudden failure.

    There should never be any measures in place to allow a brake system to work correctly above them working within the factory standards. No cooling down. No running anything over them to get hot. l

    In AZ its over 100 already. Putting some tape on them to keep the sun off them isn't going to work.

    only two fixes.
    Send them back in to have the pistons replaced, or replace them with a different set, like XT's
    Too Many .

  86. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent701 View Post
    SRAM fixed my wife's Guides
    Explained the whole reason they problem is even there.
    please elaborate. What did they say is the "whole reason" ... ?

    My bet is a member of the development team is secretly working for Shimano

  87. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent701 View Post
    In AZ its over 100 already. Putting some tape on them to keep the sun off them isn't going to work.
    Yes it does. Use some common sense. A white surface doesn't get as hot as a black one. Just buy some white tape from the pharmacy or electrical tape from a hardware store.

  88. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    please elaborate. What did they say is the "whole reason" ... ?

    My bet is a member of the development team is secretly working for Shimano
    3rd party makes the pistons. They made the pistons too large and used a old mold for the brakes. They know they piston o-rings well swell a little with heat. but when the pistons are already made too large. You get the problem we all are having now. He had a big ass bag full of pistons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    Yes it does. Use some common sense. A white surface doesn't get as hot as a black one. Just buy some white tape from the pharmacy or electrical tape from a hardware store.
    White, pink, blue colored tape. It's not the point.

    Her brakes work ( for now), XT's will be going on and these going away.
    Too Many .

  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent701 View Post
    3rd party makes the pistons. They made the pistons too large and used a old mold for the brakes. They know they piston o-rings well swell a little with heat. but when the pistons are already made too large. You get the problem we all are having now. He had a big ass bag full of pistons.



    White, pink, blue colored tape. It's not the point.

    Her brakes work ( for now), XT's will be going on and these going away.
    I already got my brakes swapped last year. Good for Sram to know what the problem is, now how about a recall?

    And the WHITE!! tape method does work as it's direct sunlight on the black lever housing that is causing heat to build up and thus leading to the issue. What's so hard to understand here? I always carry a little tape with me should the problem ever emerge again on the new brakes.

  90. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    I already got my brakes swapped last year. Good for Sram to know what the problem is, now how about a recall?

    And the WHITE!! tape method does work as it's direct sunlight on the black lever housing that is causing heat to build up and thus leading to the issue. What's so hard to understand here? I always carry a little tape with me should the problem ever emerge again on the new brakes.

    Nothing hard at all to understand, I also know for a fact that doesn't work here in AZ, If it's 100+ outside, It's over 90 in my garage. The bike can't leave the garage. the brakes will not work. and NO sunlight has touched them. Has nothing to do with sun light. Here in AZ during our summer's it will be over 100 at night. Can't ride, brakes no work. and there is no sun..

    If you wanna run tape on your brakes, go for it. Won't fix shit here in AZ

    They work, for now. lets see how long.
    Too Many .

  91. #291
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    My local bike shop just quoted me $150.00 for replacing the warrantied guide brakes that locked up this weekend (and then cooled down and worked and then heated up and did not again)....and then said they are back ordered and would be ten days to get there.... I laughed on the phone and told I will pick up my bike after work..... and hung up...

    $150.00 to change two brake levers.... hahahahahahahahahahhahahahah.
    What a joke...

  92. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankhead10 View Post
    (...)
    $150.00 to change two brake levers.... hahahahahahahahahahhahahahah.
    What a joke...
    And you have people insisting that we should support our LBS...

  93. #293
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    Just contacted another bike shop 45 minutes away (where my mom lives) and they said they charge about $20.00 per lever..... I guess I have my answer of who I will "support"

    I will be sure to let the first shop know where I will be going and that I don't appreciate the ******** extortion techniques...

  94. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankhead10 View Post
    Just contacted another bike shop 45 minutes away (where my mom lives) and they said they charge about $20.00 per lever..... I guess I have my answer of who I will "support"

    I will be sure to let the first shop know where I will be going and that I don't appreciate the ******** extortion techniques...
    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    And you have people insisting that we should support our LBS...
    Like anything else in life, not all LBS are the same.
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    Just wanted to give a quick update on the replacement levers installed on my bike about 10 days ago. They haven't overheated yet. Will provide more updates at a later date.

  96. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent701 View Post
    Nothing hard at all to understand, I also know for a fact that doesn't work here in AZ, If it's 100+ outside, It's over 90 in my garage. The bike can't leave the garage. the brakes will not work. and NO sunlight has touched them. Has nothing to do with sun light. Here in AZ during our summer's it will be over 100 at night. Can't ride, brakes no work. and there is no sun..

    If you wanna run tape on your brakes, go for it. Won't fix shit here in AZ

    They work, for now. lets see how long.
    if it's that hot in your area that your brakes are not working how can you even go riding?

    I think maybe these Guide brakes are a good indicator to help you determine optimal riding conditions:

    brakes not working = too hot outside, danger of dehydration. Riding not recommended. Brakes will lock up for your own safety.

    brakes working = good riding conditions

    brakes stopped working during ride = brakes/human have overheated. Give water to brakes+human to solve issue.

  97. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Calf View Post
    if it's that hot in your area that your brakes are not working how can you even go riding?

    I think maybe these Guide brakes are a good indicator to help you determine optimal riding conditions:

    brakes not working = too hot outside, danger of dehydration. Riding not recommended. Brakes will lock up for your own safety.

    brakes working = good riding conditions

    brakes stopped working during ride = brakes/human have overheated. Give water to brakes+human to solve issue.

    Ya missed the point,
    The guides don't work. ( This whole thread is about guides not working when hot)
    My XT's work just fine, my son's Formula's work just fine. Again, It's the Guides that stop working. I don't need to cool those brakes off. In the years I have raced MX, Sportbikes and now MTB's. I have never had to use anything to cool brakes off like putting water on them to make them work. They either work or they don't. If they don't, you find a brand that does in the conditions you ride in.
    Guides aren't those currently. but like I said, Let's see how long they last with the new pistons.

    And guides helping with optimal riding conditions?, Nah. We ride year around, just need to change the times. Either very early to try to stay in the 90's or at night to try to stay in the 90's, anything during the day it's too hot outside. regardless of when though. The Guides have still failed.
    Too Many .

  98. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent701 View Post
    Nothing hard at all to understand, I also know for a fact that doesn't work here in AZ, If it's 100+ outside, It's over 90 in my garage. The bike can't leave the garage. the brakes will not work. and NO sunlight has touched them. Has nothing to do with sun light. Here in AZ during our summer's it will be over 100 at night. Can't ride, brakes no work. and there is no sun..

    If you wanna run tape on your brakes, go for it. Won't fix shit here in AZ

    They work, for now. lets see how long.
    SRAM replaced my Guide RSC levers last year. It took three months but they are better. I had to pay a processing fee but then just rebuilt the brakes myself. They are working fine now. It is just the lever piston that is expanding in warm weather making the brakes stick.

    SRAM brakes are good but it is all in the bleed. If you bleed them well, they will work well. They are not the easiest to get a good bleed. However, I think I may have some technical strategies to get really good bleed.

  99. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent701 View Post
    Ya missed the point,
    The guides don't work.
    ...just put some cold water on them. Damn you're stubborn!

  100. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    I can sympathize with your sentiment.
    ...
    Too Many .

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