goodridge hose + formula "the one" - new question
i've done my research and searches, and i've got a few questions that are not covered by the information i found. at the moment, i have no backup brakes to use if i screw up the installation, so i want to get it right.
i've been using my formula "the ones" for a few months and love them. i have to adjust the hose length, so i figured it's the best time to install goodridge hoses.
#1: i made sure to get goodridge kit #109, as detailed in this thread, and this one. those threads were helpful. thank you. the goodridge instructions don't address formula brakes.
#2: i've checked formula's exploded parts diagram (PDF), which does not appear to show the lever-hose connection.
#3: i've checked section 2.4 (page 13 of the PDF) of the owner's manual, which shows the rubber seal, tightening bush, "biconical", and o-ring/plug as they connect the hose to the lever. the stock parts make sense.
a couple things are confusing me. perhaps it might be clear if i disassemble the lever, but, again, since i don't have a backup brake to use i'd rather seek the wisdom of those who have done it before.
a) can anyone verify that goodridge parts labeled 4 (m8) & 5 (m6) are to be placed over the goodridge tapered hose fitting (6) as shown in my photo (attached below)?
b) formula includes parts 1 (o-ring/plug), 2 (biconical) and 3 (tightening bush) with new brakes for use when lines are shortened. i'm a little confused. do i still need any/all of those parts? it seems like formula part #3 would be replaced by goodridge part #4.
formula part #2 (their "biconical") fits quite snugly on goodridge part #6. however, what doesn't work in that configuration is that formula part #1 (o-ring/plug) is too long. it seems to me that in stock configuration, the o-ring should fit into the binconical.....and the plug goes into the stock hose.
it seems like goodridge part #6 takes care of the insertion into the hose, so maybe formula part #1 is not even necessary. the plug does not fit into the goodridge assembly.
so, should assembly 4+5+6 in my photo just screw into the lever assembly? do i need formula's biconical (#2)? do i need their o-ring/plug (#1)?
the lower right-hand portion of my photo shows a picture from formula's torque rating guide and illustrates the formula hose/rubber seal. do i need that any longer?
thanks for bearing with me, and thanks for any help you can provide.
just adding a quick follow-up. i read in the other threads that formula's olive must be re-used. is part #2 in my photo above (what formula calls the "biconical") this part?
it seems to make sense to use it, as it fits over the goodridge tapered fitting (left end in my photo). that would imply not using formula's o-ring/plug and threaded bushing.
thanks again for any help.
i'm sure this is a simple operation, but, again, since i don't have a spare brake if i disassemble this and find out i haven't got all the parts, it means i can't ride for a few days at a minimum.
Parts 4+5+6 screw into the lever body.Remember to put the rubber cover on
Dont think you need any of the old formula parts.
Will have a look at my goodridge hoses in the garage think they still have the connectors on.
Just looked mine are slightly different but your picture with 4,5,6 on the hose is correct.
thanks for the reply.
Originally Posted by norcosam
"re-use" was a poor choice of words on my part. with new formula brakes, formula includes a second set of parts 1,2,3 (as shown in my pic), so there is a brand new olive to work with (if necessary).
if i don't use the formula olive, am i just relying on the goodridge connector to screw into the formula lever and seal with no o-ring?
it looks to me like the plug is designed to fit into a hose, the o-ring on the plug ensures there is no leak on the inside....then the olive gets crushed against the threaded bushing providing a tight seal. is that the case?
if so, i can see how the goodridge hardware fits tightly into the hose (removing the need for the separate plug), but if i use it w/o the olive then it means there is a threaded end of the connector that screws onto the lever without an o-ring or anything else of the sort.
thanks for the help.
i snapped a pic showing how the original formula parts (silver -- olive + threaded bushing) would fit together, with the olive end fitting inside the bushing.
the pic also shows that if one were to use a new olive with the goodridge fittings, the olive would fit OVER the tapered end of the goodridge.
a trusted friend has told me that high-pressure lines such as this would normally use some type of compression bushing (i.e., olive), so running it without the olive and just screwing the goodridge fitting into the lever seems to contradict this.
my friend admittedly does not have experience with formula brakes, but he does have experience with goodridge lines and a great deal of other automotive experience.
i'm still a little confused. is there a definitive answer out there -- olive or no olive? seems like there are at least a couple voices saying no olive (see blurman's post here), and there is at least one (see travo's post here) saying to use the olive (though it seems like person may never have had a successful installation).
thanks again for the clarification.
I didnt use the olive when i had my set on my formuals.It winds in that tight it seals on the taper.Same as standard hydraulic fitting.
cool. thank you very much for the confirmation. i'll try it without the olive. sounds like i am as prepared as i can be before diving in.
Originally Posted by norcosam
i haven't ever bled and avid/formula, so that part will be new. i imagine it will click after doing it.
The standard hoses on mine were a nightmare to get out of the lever unit.The secret is to pull like hell and gently rotate the angle you are pulling from and they kind of walk out of the lever unit.It made me sweat.
If you havn't already bought the goodridge hoses, don't. they are a pain in the ass to deal with. I've used braided hose on many auto applications but the tiny size the bikes require makes it a pain to deal with. Also they are heavier if that matters to you.
The only reason I have delt with them is because they came on my wifes hope mini pink x2's. I had to get a longer rear hose for her large stumpy. If not for already having them I would have rather had the standard black hose.
thanks for this tip, norcosam. when removing the formula cables, it helped me to know that a bit of trouble was normal.
i suspect the required force was due to the olive being wedged in there.
as a quick update to this thread for anyone reading it in the future.....
NO formula parts were required (except the original formula bolt that goes through the opening in the banjo bolt, but that's pretty obvious).
cutting the hoses was easy, but i recommend for those who are not 100% confident to do a few practice cuts. it's doubtful anyone would need the full length of the hose supplied in the kits.
installing the goodridge hose @ the lever first makes things a bit easier.
all-in-all, the hose installation was trivial, but i'm glad i had all this information to do the installation start-to-finish with no snafus.
i'd read many people criticizing the formula bleed process. i have to confess that while i have bled other brakes, the forum chatter on this topic made me drag my feet on doing the installation as i knew i'd have to bleed the brakes.
it turned out to be SO easy to bleed these brakes. so, so easy. i wound up following the instructions on formula's website. however, instead of removing the levers/hoses/calipers, i simply laid the bike on it's side and removed the caliper so that the bleed port could be oriented vertically.
a slow, methodical process and a little patience to let the air bubbles float up was all that was required.
for the front brake, i even left the caliper on the bike.
i found it very easy to keep errant brake fluid to a minimum during the process. basically, the only time i had any escape was at the very end, when removing the syringe from the master cylinder's bleed port. you want it to be just a hair over-filled so that the screw displaced a touch of fluid. it's easy to isolate that fluid with a paper towel while the lever's still on the bar.
brakes feel great in the garage @ midnight, but the true test will be on the trail. the only thing that was a bummer is that my cheap T-10 bit actually bent. fortunately, this happened while tightening the final screw (it rounded that screw in the process). i'll have to replace it, but at least it's not an urgent thing.
thanks for all who offered help. hope that people now have a definitive resource on goodridge hoses + formula brakes....as well as another voice to dispel the myth that these brakes are hard to bleed.
anyone have a source for a *good* single T-10 bit?
why is it that you feel that way?
Originally Posted by terrible
after doing the installation tonight, i actually felt that the hoses were very easy to deal with. the weight difference between stock and goodridge hoses is negligible on a 30+ pound bike. i could have/should have weighed them. i still have some goodridge scrap so tomorrow i can find the actual difference. i bet it's something like 10-20g, i.e. not much.
can you add any detail on what you feel is more difficult to work with than the stock hose? is it something to do with the installation, or is it actual use and/or maintenance?
obviously, i haven't had mine on-trail yet as i just installed them hours ago, but if the install was easy, it seems hard to imagine why there might be any other problems that would be unique to these hoses post-installation.