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  1. #101
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    Use Hope...

    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    Does anyone have any suggestions? I looked at some Avid brake adapters, which are just two posts, with no bridge between them. Does anyone have any experience with those?
    Why not just get a Hope adapter? Hope has a chart on their website you can use to ID what adapter you need.

    https://www.hopetech.com/wp-content/...ount-chart.pdf

    I have them, they work perfectly. Jenson and Universal Cycles sells 'em.
    Focus on technique and save the puking for later. - L. McCormack

  2. #102
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    Why not just get a Hope adapter?
    I already tried that:

    I also bought a rear 160-180 Hope adapter because the Hope E4 caliper bottoms out on my Shimano 160-180 adapter. And once again, Hope problems from the get go. The Hope bolts are M6 x 18mm, and the bolts bottom out in my Ibis HD3 post mounts, which are only 12mm deep. The two hardware stores that I checked only sold M6 x 12mm, which is too short, or M6 by 16mm, which is still too long. So, I had a shop grind off 3mm from the Hope bolts. Next problem: with the Hope brake adapter I cannot move the brake caliper outboard enough to center the rotor in the caliper. I give up. Everything made by Hope doesn't work for me.
    And, my rear brake has started to squeak while climbing. Sheesh! Initially, I thought it was a dry thru-bolt, but I greased the thru-bolt, and I still get squeaking, which gets worse the longer I climb. It's almost like dust is sticking to the pads or rotors. I'll have to do some more troubleshooting.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    I already tried that:

    How about taking a Dremel to the inside of the adapter to make the "slot" bigger? I actually had to do that on my E4's. Didn't need much; like you said 0.5 - 1.0mm did it. I don't have a vice so I had a buddy hold the caliper with a vice grip and we slowly dremeled the opening slightly. Just need to make sure you make the slot bigger equally through the top and bottom of the adapter or caliper.


    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    And, my rear brake has started to squeak while climbing. Sheesh! Initially, I thought it was a dry thru-bolt, but I greased the thru-bolt, and I still get squeaking, which gets worse the longer I climb. It's almost like dust is sticking to the pads or rotors. I'll have to do some more troubleshooting.
    What type of descending do you do? If you are using metallic pads, this kind of comes with the pad. Swap to organic as this will help. Be aware of the differences between the two pads as organic may not be suitable for your riding.

    Here's a good resource:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMxH8f2XK8g

    I run metallic but I'm not really riding XC style (nor sure what you ride...); the noise doesn't bother me.

    edit below

    If you are not applying pressure to your brakes when you are squeaking, your pistons need to be lubricated with some silicone oil.
    Focus on technique and save the puking for later. - L. McCormack

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wacha Wacha Wacha View Post
    How about taking a Dremel to the inside of the adapter to make the "slot" bigger?
    I don't have a dremel, but I've got a file! Thanks for the tip. For some reason, I thought the bridge performed some important function, but Avid makes adapters that are just posts with no bridge.

    What type of descending do you do?
    30 minute XC ski resort descents where I'm hauling ass to the limit of my abilities such that if anything goes wrong I'll be cartwheeling through the rocks and most likely hitting a couple of trees. I'm trying to get away from that, though, because an injury isn't worth it.

    If you are using metallic pads, this kind of comes with the pad.
    No, I'm using the red organic pads, which seem to wear pretty quickly.

    If you are not applying pressure to your brakes when you are squeaking, your pistons need to be lubricated with some silicone oil.
    I was able to adjust the pads and get rid of the squeaking. I think pad rub combined with dusty conditions caused the squeaking.

  5. #105
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    It's the fricking seal. See below.

    I ordered a pair of Tech 3 E4 brakes that have been doing this OUT OF THE BOX about five months ago. Out of the box. I never cut the lines. For diagnosis, the front brake provides the no-brainer because there are so few variables: I got the brake, put it on, centered it properly with a new Hope rotor and the pads don't retract. I bled them over and over, took them to a shop to be bled. Same problem. I have bled them SO many times. I have watched Hope's videos several times. I have double and triple-checked my process. So, it's the seal.

    Listed in no particular order but done in a very particular order, I have
    pushed pistons all the way into the caliper throughout the process,
    Kept pistons pushed all the way into caliper when bleeding system,
    fastidiously bled the systems,
    individually extended each piston on both brakes and lubricated them,
    replaced stock rotors with brand new shimano rotors,
    rolled the diaphragm on correctly,
    only used a Pedros plastic tire lever or a brake block to maneuvre the pistons,
    tapped the lever and the caliper,
    backed out the BCP and Reach before bleeding the system,
    back bled the system by extending the pistons during bleed process by 1. squeezing brake lever and 2. then pushing pistons back in with open reservoir so that fluid overflows reservoir.
    Followed Dan Gabon of Hope videos approach to centering calipers: install without pads, observe round-topped CNC cutout for disc rotor edge. Use cutout at guide for centering calipers. I place pads in and they're great, no sound, nearly perfectly centered, until I depress the lever. Rub rub rub.

    HERE ARE SOME GOOD TIPS:
    when trying to free a single piston, ZIP TIE the THIRD piston and brake block the other two. Easy.
    If unsure whether pistons are lubricated properly, and I believe in this because Park Tool recommends lubricating with DOT fluid, individually extend each piston and submerge entire caliper in a bowl of brake fluid for two minutes, then repeat. Wear gloves. It's a messy and time-consuming process but my brakes now feel amazing. The levers have no sponginess, snap back sharply. They just keep rubbing. (I only did this the last time I bled my brakes, which was three weeks ago. I did it to rule out that the pistons were not completely 360 deg. lubricated.)

    Concerning individual piston pairs, I have seen one piston be utterly free and loose and the other piston be impossible to break free-------> and when I use above three piston block off method and finally free the stuck one, after pushing in the pistons to test out, the ROLES WILL REVERSE, so that the previously stuck piston is now the free one etc.

    It's not dirt. The brakes did this out of the box and once again I did not cut either line.

    I also took these to a dedicated high-end mountain bike shop after I decided I was incompetent at bleeding brakes and the shop mechanic couldn't make them any better. So I'm not incompetent. They feel great, but don't retract.

    I have reached out to Hope and they do not have a better answer than to not use certain type of lubricant on the pistons.

    Final note, I guess it's the seal, but when dealing with a very stuck piston, will sometimes here a crack(!), or snap(!) as the piston frees and retreats into the caliper. I assume that's the seal. I have noticed no shards of piston or grit or anything like that coming from caliper or piston.

    So there is it. Out of the box, same problem. Brakes feel great but do not work right.

  6. #106
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    Warranty??

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissynMarlathadbehot View Post
    I ordered a pair of Tech 3 E4 brakes that have been doing this OUT OF THE BOX about five months ago. Out of the box. I never cut the lines. For diagnosis, the front brake provides the no-brainer because there are so few variables: I got the brake, put it on, centered it properly with a new Hope rotor and the pads don't retract. I bled them over and over, took them to a shop to be bled. Same problem. I have bled them SO many times. I have watched Hope's videos several times. I have double and triple-checked my process. So, it's the seal.

    Listed in no particular order but done in a very particular order, I have
    pushed pistons all the way into the caliper throughout the process,
    Kept pistons pushed all the way into caliper when bleeding system,
    fastidiously bled the systems,
    individually extended each piston on both brakes and lubricated them,
    replaced stock rotors with brand new shimano rotors,
    rolled the diaphragm on correctly,
    only used a Pedros plastic tire lever or a brake block to maneuvre the pistons,
    tapped the lever and the caliper,
    backed out the BCP and Reach before bleeding the system,
    back bled the system by extending the pistons during bleed process by 1. squeezing brake lever and 2. then pushing pistons back in with open reservoir so that fluid overflows reservoir.
    Followed Dan Gabon of Hope videos approach to centering calipers: install without pads, observe round-topped CNC cutout for disc rotor edge. Use cutout at guide for centering calipers. I place pads in and they're great, no sound, nearly perfectly centered, until I depress the lever. Rub rub rub.

    HERE ARE SOME GOOD TIPS:
    when trying to free a single piston, ZIP TIE the THIRD piston and brake block the other two. Easy.
    If unsure whether pistons are lubricated properly, and I believe in this because Park Tool recommends lubricating with DOT fluid, individually extend each piston and submerge entire caliper in a bowl of brake fluid for two minutes, then repeat. Wear gloves. It's a messy and time-consuming process but my brakes now feel amazing. The levers have no sponginess, snap back sharply. They just keep rubbing. (I only did this the last time I bled my brakes, which was three weeks ago. I did it to rule out that the pistons were not completely 360 deg. lubricated.)

    Concerning individual piston pairs, I have seen one piston be utterly free and loose and the other piston be impossible to break free-------> and when I use above three piston block off method and finally free the stuck one, after pushing in the pistons to test out, the ROLES WILL REVERSE, so that the previously stuck piston is now the free one etc.

    It's not dirt. The brakes did this out of the box and once again I did not cut either line.

    I also took these to a dedicated high-end mountain bike shop after I decided I was incompetent at bleeding brakes and the shop mechanic couldn't make them any better. So I'm not incompetent. They feel great, but don't retract.

    I have reached out to Hope and they do not have a better answer than to not use certain type of lubricant on the pistons.

    Final note, I guess it's the seal, but when dealing with a very stuck piston, will sometimes here a crack(!), or snap(!) as the piston frees and retreats into the caliper. I assume that's the seal. I have noticed no shards of piston or grit or anything like that coming from caliper or piston.

    So there is it. Out of the box, same problem. Brakes feel great but do not work right.
    I have the exact same problem. I have become an expert at working on these brakes because I've done it so many times. I've finally ruled out the seals and I replaced the rotor as well because it was the last item to not be replaced. Same problem, sticky pistons. I've lubed with silicone oil, it doesn't help.

    My brakes are red anodized, and I did notice when I replaced the seal on the sticky piston, that inside the piston bore of the caliper the red anodizing was worn off. This tells me that the piston is contacting the caliper body. Something that should not happen.

    As far as warranty, in my situation, I purchased the brakes over a year ago from Merlin. I am in the USA, so I did not feel like sending the brakes back to Merlin, only to have them sent back to Hope and then Hope tell me that there is no issue. I've spent well over $400 for the brakes and all the seals, pads, caliper bore cap tool, fluid, etc. I've contacted Hope and the only advice they gave me was to lube the pistons every month or so.

    I will contact Hope again and let them know about the worn anodizing and see what they say.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69tr6r View Post


    As far as warranty, in my situation, I purchased the brakes over a year ago from Merlin. I am in the USA, so I did not feel like sending the brakes back to Merlin, only to have them sent back to Hope and then Hope tell me that there is no issue. I've spent well over $400 for the brakes and all the seals, pads, caliper bore cap tool, fluid, etc. I've contacted Hope and the only advice they gave me was to lube the pistons every month or so.
    I wrote them again requesting warranty. If Hope doesn't agree to warranty I am sending the brakes and any little accessory I bought for them back to the factory and telling them to keep them.

  9. #109
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    I have had this exact same problem and Hope is right: lubricate your piston with silicone oil and they work buttery smooth.

    You guys are foolish to send them back. I now lubricate with every change of pads which is about once a month.

    It is way to easy to fix and cost 10 bucks.

    https://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-56...s=silicone+oil
    Focus on technique and save the puking for later. - L. McCormack

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wacha Wacha Wacha View Post
    I have had this exact same problem and Hope is right: lubricate your piston with silicone oil and they work buttery smooth.

    You guys are foolish to send them back. I now lubricate with every change of pads which is about once a month.

    It is way to easy to fix and cost 10 bucks.

    https://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-56...s=silicone+oil

    That's pretty glib, reductive. I for one obviously already did that.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wacha Wacha Wacha View Post
    I have had this exact same problem and Hope is right: lubricate your piston with silicone oil and they work buttery smooth.

    You guys are foolish to send them back. I now lubricate with every change of pads which is about once a month.

    It is way to easy to fix and cost 10 bucks.

    https://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-56...s=silicone+oil
    I lubed the pistons and immediately afterward the piston was sticking.

    You are the foolish one to believe that all brakes work perfect.

    Do you really go through a set of pads per month? You must ride a lot!

  12. #112
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    Wham!

    BAM!


    I guess this thread has corrected me! Next time I have a problem, I'll just send it back with a nasty-gram.
    Focus on technique and save the puking for later. - L. McCormack

  13. #113
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    This problem is real. I have experienced it a few times on my Hope E4 as well, even had pistons seize after riding a trail with fine dust. But cleaning, lubing and cycling the pistons a few times fixed it. I didn't have to replace the piston seals (this time).

    Yes, Hope brakes are slightly high maintenance, but one of the reasons i switched over from XTR is because they are totally rebuildable, and you can even do it yourself with simple tools.

    And of course, Hopes have consistent bite point, which is what irritated me about XTR, besides the 3 lever failures I encountered.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by greddyvox View Post
    This problem is real. I have experienced it a few times on my Hope E4 as well, even had pistons seize after riding a trail with fine dust. But cleaning, lubing and cycling the pistons a few times fixed it. I didn't have to replace the piston seals (this time).

    Yes, Hope brakes are slightly high maintenance, but one of the reasons i switched over from XTR is because they are totally rebuildable, and you can even do it yourself with simple tools.

    And of course, Hopes have consistent bite point, which is what irritated me about XTR, besides the 3 lever failures I encountered.
    And this type of issue is acceptable? Brakes seizing on the trail because of fine dust?

    I have no problem with routine maintenance, but this is absurd. I like the brakes and how they work, but there has to be something better.

  15. #115
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    My latest problem: my rear pads seize against the rotor. I tried cleaning and lubing the pistons with silicone oil, but that only lasted for a couple of days, so I did it again.

    Yesterday, near the end of my ride I had to remove my rear pads because I was afraid I was going to glaze my rear rotor. I only have about 1mm left of pad material remaining, so it's time to change the pads, but I'm not hopeful that will cure the problem. The pistons seem to have lost their ability to retract after I squeeze the brakes. That would be a seal problem, right?

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    My latest problem: my rear pads seize against the rotor. I tried cleaning and lubing the pistons with silicone oil, but that only lasted for a couple of days, so I did it again.

    Yesterday, near the end of my ride I had to remove my rear pads because I was afraid I was going to glaze my rear rotor. I only have about 1mm left of pad material remaining, so it's time to change the pads, but I'm not hopeful that will cure the problem. The pistons seem to have lost their ability to retract after I squeeze the brakes. That would be a seal problem, right?
    Try new pads first, it's way easier and cheaper than rebuilding the caliper.

    I'm not optimistic your problem will be solved though. I've had nothing but trouble with my Hope brakes as well, and I've been down this road too.

    I really think they just had a bad batch of calipers and that we we have here.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    My latest problem: my rear pads seize against the rotor. I tried cleaning and lubing the pistons with silicone oil, but that only lasted for a couple of days, so I did it again.

    Yesterday, near the end of my ride I had to remove my rear pads because I was afraid I was going to glaze my rear rotor. I only have about 1mm left of pad material remaining, so it's time to change the pads, but I'm not hopeful that will cure the problem. The pistons seem to have lost their ability to retract after I squeeze the brakes. That would be a seal problem, right?
    It's your pads. After hope pistons extend past a certain point they will not retract without manual intervention. Put in new pads, reset, clean and all will be great again.

  18. #118
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    I hate you guys are having so much trouble with Hope brakes. I can't imagine using another type.

    I use silicone oil on my pistons fairly frequently, but I do not typically trail ride. Most of my descents are peddle-free (my rides are 80% shuttle to the top and 20% peddle the rest of the way to the trail heads) and heavy braking so use my advice if its relative: I oil my pistons every 50 miles or so and have to replace my pads fairly frequently (100-150 miles) as well.
    Focus on technique and save the puking for later. - L. McCormack

  19. #119
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    Just rebuilt two pairs of rear E4 calipers with new seals, but reused the same pistons.

    Works as good as new now.

    I too had pistons seizing, due to lack of maintenance i guess. So I tried the extending and cleaning pistons, then lubing with dot fluid, but that didn't work.

    So i decided to DIY the seal replacement, which I learnt from watching youtube vids (Though it's more difficult on the 4 piston caliper compared to the one I watched which was done on the X2 - takes some trial and error to balance the two inner pistons so you can get both out before you completely lose pressure when just 1 pops out).

    When i got all 4 pistons out, i removed the piston seals and thoroughly cleaned the piston cavity with brake cleaner and cotton swabs - lots of dark stuff in there which prob jammed up the seals.

    The old seals didn't look damaged, but may have felt a little bit stiffer (perhaps my imagination).

    Anyway I put in new seals lubed with dot fluid, and carefully re-inserted the pistons (coated in dot fluid) - if you put one in slightly off-centre, it's a hard time getting it out to redo it

    After a proper bleed, brakes are working fantastic again, even with pads that have about 70% life left. Gonna keep in mind to clean those pistons periodically so I don't have to do the rebuild again - it was a good learning process but I have better ways to spend a couple of hours.

    To those who are also experiencing problems with their E4, don't lose Hope, remember that one of the reasons many of us like them is that they are completely user serviceable, since parts and instructions aren't too hard to get online.

    That said, I am curious about the Hayes Dominion brakes... but will wait for more extensive reviews and user feedback.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoJo View Post
    It's your pads. After hope pistons extend past a certain point they will not retract without manual intervention. Put in new pads, reset, clean and all will be great again.
    Replacing the pads worked. I cleaned my pistons again, and there was one piston that took a lot of force to push in. Sometimes when I try pushing in a piston, the piston won't budge, and it's just a matter of moving the tire lever a little bit, and then the piston easily pushes in. However, while trying to push in the stubborn piston I broke the tip of my tire lever twice.

    Then, I found that I needed to adjust my brake lever to be a little softer because the bite point was further out. But, yesterday I was riding a downhill section and something changed--my lever suddenly got too soft. I stopped and adjusted the bite point back out, and now my brakes feel like they used to.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by greddyvox View Post
    Just rebuilt two pairs of rear E4 calipers with new seals, but reused the same pistons.

    Works as good as new now.

    I too had pistons seizing, due to lack of maintenance i guess. So I tried the extending and cleaning pistons, then lubing with dot fluid, but that didn't work.

    So i decided to DIY the seal replacement, which I learnt from watching youtube vids (Though it's more difficult on the 4 piston caliper compared to the one I watched which was done on the X2 - takes some trial and error to balance the two inner pistons so you can get both out before you completely lose pressure when just 1 pops out).

    When i got all 4 pistons out, i removed the piston seals and thoroughly cleaned the piston cavity with brake cleaner and cotton swabs - lots of dark stuff in there which prob jammed up the seals.

    The old seals didn't look damaged, but may have felt a little bit stiffer (perhaps my imagination).

    Anyway I put in new seals lubed with dot fluid, and carefully re-inserted the pistons (coated in dot fluid) - if you put one in slightly off-centre, it's a hard time getting it out to redo it

    After a proper bleed, brakes are working fantastic again, even with pads that have about 70% life left. Gonna keep in mind to clean those pistons periodically so I don't have to do the rebuild again - it was a good learning process but I have better ways to spend a couple of hours.

    To those who are also experiencing problems with their E4, don't lose Hope, remember that one of the reasons many of us like them is that they are completely user serviceable, since parts and instructions aren't too hard to get online.

    That said, I am curious about the Hayes Dominion brakes... but will wait for more extensive reviews and user feedback.
    Thanks for the writeup.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by greddyvox View Post
    Just rebuilt two pairs of rear E4 calipers with new seals, but reused the same pistons.

    Works as good as new now.

    So i decided to DIY the seal replacement, which I learnt from watching youtube vids
    Curious - how many miles did the calipers go before you rebuilt them?
    Focus on technique and save the puking for later. - L. McCormack

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    replacing the pads worked. I cleaned my pistons again, and there was one piston that took a lot of force to push in. Sometimes when i try pushing in a piston, the piston won't budge, and it's just a matter of moving the tire lever a little bit, and then the piston easily pushes in. However, while trying to push in the stubborn piston i broke the tip of my tire lever twice.

    Then, i found that i needed to adjust my brake lever to be a little softer because the bite point was further out. But, yesterday i was riding a downhill section and something changed--my lever suddenly got too soft. I stopped and adjusted the bite point back out, and now my brakes feel like they used to.
    nice!!
    Focus on technique and save the puking for later. - L. McCormack

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wacha Wacha Wacha View Post
    Curious - how many miles did the calipers go before you rebuilt them?
    Can't tell you for sure, since I rotate between two bikes mostly, but it was maybe a year before I experienced sticky pistons again. I suppose with regular cleaning of pistons it could be longer between rebuilds

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