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  1. #1
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    El Camino Tech Help Needed

    Randy, I'm sure you can help out with this one, but others are welcome to chime in (by the way, the "contact us" e-mail on Hayes site is not working).

    I have a set of the pre-bled El Caminos for my VPX. I have two issues.

    1. The line for the front is too short. I have a bunch of line and fittings for the Mag series of brakes (I have them on five other bikes). Can I use the Mag line with the banjo fittings used for the Mags? What about at the lever? I have many of the compression bushings, but it doesn't appear that those are used (based on the parts schematic on Hayes site). It says to replace insert/compression bushing. What parts do I really need?

    2. Even though the brakes came pre-bled from Hayes, the lever goes almost all of the way to the grip (about 5/16" away). On previous Mags, I'd simply pull the lever a few times, to seat the pads and pistons, and then rebleed them. Will this work the same on the El Caminos? For bleeding, can I use the plastic piece from the Mags to attach the hose to the master cylinder?

    Are the needed replacement/service parts in any dealers yet? I understand that they are early in availability, so I understand if they are not. One of the reasons (other than the great performance) is that service parts for Hayes brakes are more readily available than any other disc brake. That's what first sold me on them.

    Thank you!

    Lee

  2. #2
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    Lee...

    1) Did the brake come installed from the factory on the bike or did your shop install it?
    Is it really too short? On our other brakes ( Mag and Nine) you need to turn the lever upright to bleed the brake. With the EC you don't need to do this, just leave it at a 45 degree angle to the ground.

    2) The hose is specific to the brake sorry. The banjo from the mag will fit but the nut from the Mag will put the banjo in a weird angle. Have your shop check if their distributor has them in stock. If they don't have them yet give out 800 number a call we might be able to help. The brake uses a unique bleed fitting. Your shop can get you the correct part.

    As far as the lever travel, this brake does have more travel (pad retraction) than our other models. If you like a shorter travel lever, drop out the wheel, give the lever a squeeze to move the caliper pistons outward and reinstall the wheel. It should be tighter (less lever travel).

    Cheers,
    Randy

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy@Hayes
    As far as the lever travel, this brake does have more travel (pad retraction) than our other models. If you like a shorter travel lever, drop out the wheel, give the lever a squeeze to move the caliper pistons outward and reinstall the wheel. It should be tighter (less lever travel).

    Cheers,
    Randy
    Randy,

    I have the opposite problem with lever travel. These seem to have less clearence than my old mags and mag plus brakes. I've tried the old business card trick, but once the business cards are removed, the caliper will reset even closer. I may have a flexy wheel (Crossmax SL) but I need to get a little more room so the disc will stop rubbing.

    Thanks

  4. #4
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    Vintage?

    How old are they? The retraction is related to the square seals in the calipers. If they are a few years old you might want to try new square seals. This usually bring them back.

    Cheers,
    Randy

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy@Hayes
    How old are they? The retraction is related to the square seals in the calipers. If they are a few years old you might want to try new square seals. This usually bring them back.

    Cheers,
    Randy
    As far as I know the El Casminos have only been out for a couple of months. They only have about ten rides on them.

  6. #6
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    Sorry...

    I thought you were talking about your Mags. Have you pushed the pistons all the way back in the bores? There should be quite a bit of clearance between the pads and rotor.

    Is this rubbing on the front wheel only? Does the rubbing only occur during hard-off the saddle pedaling or all the time? Actually, the wheel really has nothing to do with disc rub, it could be the stiffness of your fork.

    Are you using the same fork as with the Mags?

    If you are still having trouble, call our 800 number.

    Cheers,
    Randy

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy@Hayes
    I thought you were talking about your Mags. Have you pushed the pistons all the way back in the bores? There should be quite a bit of clearance between the pads and rotor.

    Is this rubbing on the front wheel only? Does the rubbing only occur during hard-off the saddle pedaling or all the time? Actually, the wheel really has nothing to do with disc rub, it could be the stiffness of your fork.

    Are you using the same fork as with the Mags?

    If you are still having trouble, call our 800 number.

    Cheers,
    Randy
    Randy,

    Its actually the rear that's giving me troubles. The front (with the same spacing) doesn't rub. Lefty fork. It is on the rear of a Prophet. Yes, I have tried everything, including pushing the pistons out, removing a little fluid, using one (and trying to fit two) business cards before pumping the lever. It is only under hard efforts, it is noticeable that when I really compress the rear while riding the rotor moves towards the inside. If I adjust it far enough to reduce that, it will rub when unweighted. Hence I was suspecting flex to be the issue.

    On all other Hayes I have owned (many). The business cards would have solved this. On this brake, one set of cards does the trick...until I pump the lever again without the cards, then the pistons readjust to very minimal spacing.

    Any other ideas? My only other thought was to try removing a little more fluid. I only released a very small amount the first time.

    Thanks

  8. #8
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    Don't...

    Let any fluid out, it really is not doing anything on a properly bled system. If a brake is bled without the caliper pistons being pushed back fully, the system can have too much fluid resulting in pistons that won't fully retract.

    Your problem could be the rear swingarm or the rear axel in the hub flexing. Is the caliper centered on the rotor? Do you need to shim the bracket from the frame to get it centered. Is the frame mount square on the frame? Many aluminum frames have the bracket welded crooked. Sound like the frame not the brake.

    Good Luck,

    Randy@Hayes

  9. #9
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    Randy,
    Thank you for the response.

    No, they did not come on the bike. I am building the bike (Intense VPX), and since my dealer couldn't get the El Caminos yet, he pulled them off a bike for me. Yes, the front line is at least 4" too short, and the rear line is about 2" too long.

    To my dealer's dismay, service parts are not available through any of his distributors. He was shocked, considering that if any of his customers had problems, they would not have been able to resolve them. Anyway, parts are not in the pipeline.

    I've been waiting for a return call from someone I left a message with at Hayes.

    I did find out through Goodridge that for their kits the fittings are the same between many Shimano and Magura parts as what they have listed for the El Caminos, so now I am exploring these companies for lines and fittings. Do you have any other suggestions? Is the El Camino line the same as the Mags and HFX kits? It feels the same, but I wanted to make sure.

    Also, according to the Hayes' site, it appears that a different fitting is required for bleeding. Since this is also not available, do you have any suggestions on attaching the bleeder hose to the master cylinder?

    Thank you!
    Lee

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200
    Randy,
    Thank you for the response.

    No, they did not come on the bike. I am building the bike (Intense VPX), and since my dealer couldn't get the El Caminos yet, he pulled them off a bike for me. Yes, the front line is at least 4" too short, and the rear line is about 2" too long.

    To my dealer's dismay, service parts are not available through any of his distributors. He was shocked, considering that if any of his customers had problems, they would not have been able to resolve them. Anyway, parts are not in the pipeline.

    I've been waiting for a return call from someone I left a message with at Hayes.

    I did find out through Goodridge that for their kits the fittings are the same between many Shimano and Magura parts as what they have listed for the El Caminos, so now I am exploring these companies for lines and fittings. Do you have any other suggestions? Is the El Camino line the same as the Mags and HFX kits? It feels the same, but I wanted to make sure.

    Also, according to the Hayes' site, it appears that a different fitting is required for bleeding. Since this is also not available, do you have any suggestions on attaching the bleeder hose to the master cylinder?

    Thank you!
    Lee
    Blaster,

    Just FYI, Quality Bicycle Products (major parts supplier for bicycle shops) just recieved all the El Camino parts yesterday.
    Last edited by BIke N Gear; 04-29-2005 at 01:05 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIke N Gear
    Blaster,

    Just FYI, Quality Bicycle Products (major parts supplier for bicycle shops) just recieved all the El Camino parts yesterday.
    Thank you for the update.

    The person from Hayes called a few minutes ago, and parts are on the way.
    Thank you Hayes!

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