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  1. #1
    Negative Rep Points!!!!
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    El Camino observations

    I saw the new Hayes El Camino's this last weekend on a prototype Felt FS(very nice bike). The owner who is an engineer at Felt, pointed out what could be a real serious problem. The calipers are so wide that there was only what looked like a few thousandth's of an inch of clearance on his Crossmax wheels. He was running a Fox Talas. If any play develops in that hub, the spokes are going to hit the caliper. The rear wheel looked to have the same clarance problem. He said he was going to contact Hayes about this.

    The caliper body appears to be 2 -3 mm fatter than the Avid Juicy's.

    Now, I don't know if this was because of the dishing or hub width of the CrossMax wheels or? Perhaps a standard wheel will have more clearance?

    The levers and reach adjutment knob felt good. A bit nicer than the Avids. After the ride, he noted that the brakes worked quite well(it was a wet, rainy ride). He liked them a lot, but was not "blown away".

    I've been eyeing these brakes, but this looked sketchy.
    Last edited by Aquaholic; 04-25-2005 at 03:35 PM.
    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  2. #2
    Daniel the Dog
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    Newest MBA wasn't very praising of the EC

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquaholic
    I saw the new Hayes El Camino's this last weekend on a prototype Felt FS(very nice bike). The owner who is an engineer at Felt, pointed out what could be a real serious problem. The calipers are so wide that there was only what looked like a few thousandth's of an inch of clearance on his Crossmax wheels. He was running a Fox Talas. If any play develops in that hub, the spokes are going to hit the caliper. The rear wheel looked to have the same clarance problem. He said he was going to contact Hayes about this.

    The caliper body appears to be 2 -3 mm fatter than the Avid Juicy's.

    Now, I don't know if this was because of the dishing or hub width of the CrossMax wheels or? Perhaps a standard wheel will have more clearance?

    The levers and reach adjutment knob felt good. A bit nicer than the Avids. After the ride, he noted that the brakes worked quite well(it was a wet, rainy ride). He liked them a lot, but was not "blown away".

    I've been eyeing these brakes, but this looked sketchy.
    They said the system didn't have the firm lever feel of the old Mag system. I'm not sure what that means but I know the thing I love about the Mag is the sturdy, solid feeling of the brake. They just feel like they should be on a motorcycle or something.

    I can't believe Hayes has not thought about wheel tolerance. That would be a real screw up.

    I'm interested but I just can't justify almost $500 for what may not be an upgrade over the Hayes Mags.

    Jaybo

  3. #3
    Trail rider and racer
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    I like to try them out just for curiosity sake. I have never been at all impressed by hayes.
    Trev!

  4. #4
    (aka SS_MB-7)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquaholic
    I saw the new Hayes El Camino's this last weekend on a prototype Felt FS(very nice bike). The owner who is an engineer at Felt, pointed out what could be a real serious problem. The calipers are so wide that there was only what looked like a few thousandth's of an inch of clearance on his Crossmax wheels.
    This reminds me of the old Hope C2 Pros I had a couple years ago, with their fat-ass calipers. You could only use Hope hubs, which had the caliper-side hub flange farther away from the disc. I'm really surprised that the newest Hayes would have this issue....especially with C-max wheels.

    Guess I'll stick with my Marta SLs.
    Ride Hard,
    Mike B. (MCM# 7.77)
    http://www.one-speed.com

  5. #5
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquaholic
    The caliper body appears to be 2 -3 mm fatter than the Avid Juicy's.
    That's a trip. My Juicys made contact with one or two spokes on one of my front wheels (can't remember the fork/hub combo though it may have been a Z1 SL and King Disco or a DT 240) until I seated the spoke elbows and that fixed it. Sometimes that is all it takes, just pushing the spoke elbows in a bit.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  6. #6
    Race Technician
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    Mine clear.....

    The El Caminos we sent to many manufacturers for Interbike and bike catalog photos were not the final version. They were early prototypes and did not have the bevel on the inner edge of the caliper. If the calipers don't have serial numbers they are the old ones. The brake has gone through many changes since then, try a bike with most current version.

    I've got crossmax wheels on my bike and there is a ton of clearance.

    Randy@Hayes

  7. #7
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy@Hayes
    The El Caminos we sent to many manufacturers for Interbike and bike catalog photos were not the final version. They were early prototypes and did not have the bevel on the inner edge of the caliper. If the calipers don't have serial numbers they are the old ones. The brake has gone through many changes since then, try a bike with most current version.

    I've got crossmax wheels on my bike and there is a ton of clearance.

    Randy@Hayes
    And what fork?
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  8. #8
    Race Technician
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    M...

    Marzocchi Marathon XC

    Rand

  9. #9
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    I just got a pair..

    Yesterday, I picked up pair of El Caminos to replace my old Mag-Comps. So far they look really cool. I like the slim profile and subjectively low weight - didn't have a chance to weight them yet. I'm waiting for Goodridge hose kit to put them on my bike. I will let you know how they perform.

    Here is some brake porn:


  10. #10
    JDO
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    I'm thinking of uppgrading my Xt's 755 to El Camino. Does El Camino use the same brake pads that all Hayes Brakes?

  11. #11
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDO
    I'm thinking of uppgrading my Xt's 755 to El Camino. Does El Camino use the same brake pads that all Hayes Brakes?
    Nope, they are different. Calipers are different so the pads are new too.

  12. #12
    When did you get here?!?!
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    I won the giveaway!

    Hey everybody, I'll add my 2 cents here since I have nothing invested, I figure I can give an objective opinion.

    First impression: Super Easy to set-up. I dread having to mess with the spacers that come with setting up the Hope's. The El Caminos look beefy. The caliper is almost as large as the Hope 4 pistons. No actual measurements there, They just are bigger than I expected. There was no issue with clearance. It all set up very easily.

    First Ride: It always takes a few rides for everything to work correctly and I had to grab a ton of brakes a few times since the pads were brand new. I expected that though. I fiddled with the levers for most of that first ride. Speaking of the levers, the shape is very comfortable and the dials are out of the way. However, The reach adjustment does not bring the lever quite close enough to the grip for my small hands. That's an issue I've always delt with and was hoping Hayes had solved. The 'power' knob is pretty cool now that the pads are worn in. I usually keep it all the way dialed to the + side and it feels like what I've been told Hayes feels like. ON/OFF Do you want to endo right now? BAM! So, it takes only a little effort to stop. Quickly. I guess if you don't finesse the lever well then letting off the 'power' a little would give the brakes more 'modulation'. That's what it feels like to me, at least.
    oops, that's more than the first ride, anyway, now that they are worn in, They work damn good in most situations. I'm riding in the mountains outside of Asheville, NC and the hills get pretty steep and rocky. That's the one place where the Hope 4 pistons worked much better than the Hayes El Camino's. I'm getting forearm pump from having to grab the brakes harder and harder while working my way down, say, Pilot Rock. I can't say for sure why that happens but my guess is they are heating up and not working effeciently. Just like the Hope 2 pistons I got rid of.
    Other than the super steep rocky stuff that lasts for 10 minutes or more, The El Caminos work great. They just become another part of the bike. Nothing remarkable, just relaible and they feel good. They look cool, too. The reach dial should bring the lever a little closer to the grip and the power dial works as advertised.
    What more can a non-techie say?
    Eric

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