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  1. #26
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    The biggest thing that cured my warble was pad placement. If the brake pad engagement was below the rotor pad area to where it was into where the "spokes" were it had a ton of noise. Shim the bolt with a 5mm washer or two to get it up to engage the braking surface only and the problem was 90% solved. Just a minute amount of the brake pad being below the bra
    king surface will make noise.

  2. #27
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    Agree with firebike7. This is exactly what I did to solve my problem!

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by firebike7 View Post
    The biggest thing that cured my warble was pad placement. If the brake pad engagement was below the rotor pad area to where it was into where the "spokes" were it had a ton of noise. Shim the bolt with a 5mm washer or two to get it up to engage the braking surface only and the problem was 90% solved. Just a minute amount of the brake pad being below the bra
    king surface will make noise.
    Any chance we can get a pic? Are you suggesting the washer goes between the caliper and the actual bike frame?
    2013 Stumpjumper FSR Comp 29
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  4. #29
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    Hmm...Firebike I'm gonna give that a try.

    I paid attention on today's ride. Front squeals, rear does not; both Elixir 1s. Well, the front pads are in contact with the rotor spokes (just a little) and the rear ones are not. Bike is in the garage drying off, and I'll be looking for some suitable washers in a couple of minutes.

    Edit - There was a bit of play in the caliper mounting holes, so I just slid the caliper as far away from the center of the rotor as possible before tightening the bolts. We'll see if that was enough or if I have to add washers.
    Last edited by JoeG; 02-05-2013 at 05:50 PM.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jclyle View Post
    Are you suggesting the washer goes between the caliper and the actual bike frame?
    I gather it would go between the adapter and caliper, so the latter would be placed further from the center.

  6. #31
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    If I need to add a washer, I'd put it between the brake caliper and adapter just like Saul says.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post
    I gather it would go between the adapter and caliper, so the latter would be placed further from the center.
    correct

  8. #33
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    As per Firebike and others above, I moved the caliper as far from the axle as I could using the play in the caliper mounting holes. I did not any any washers yet.

    On a pretty short ride tonight, but no squealing. So, this might have been enough. I'll keep an eye on it, but things look promising!

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeG View Post
    As per Firebike and others above, I moved the caliper as far from the axle as I could using the play in the caliper mounting holes. I did not any any washers yet.

    On a pretty short ride tonight, but no squealing. So, this might have been enough. I'll keep an eye on it, but things look promising!
    I checked to see pad wear on the disc spokes and sure enough there is so i'll give this a shot since it only takes 2 washers to move it outbound.

  10. #35
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    I eliminated turkey warbble (at least for now) in the front by switching to red pads. The rear still squeals when wet and the pads contact rotor spokes. I'll move the caliper back to clear the rotors and report if squealing is reduced / eliminated.

  11. #36
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    Pad alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Whisperer View Post
    Replace sintered pads with semi-metallic or organic...worked on every Avid disc brake set I've owned including Juicy, Elixir, and BB7
    I've read that people have luck with these too: Serfas Avid Elixir Disc Brake Pads > Components > Brakes > Brake Pads | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop although they supposedly don't last as long.

    I have new Elixir 3s and experience a little brake noise on my front but none from my rear, but nothing overly-annoying. I made a point to bed the brakes per the service manual and it helped. I also soak/clean the pads in isopropyl alcohol before each ride and this really helps with even the little noise. Braking power is not an issue at all and overall I'm a fan of the Elixirs for now but will probably try the Serfas pads or the Jagwire Red pads when these wear out..
    Please donate to IMBA or your local chapter. It's trail karma.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post
    I eliminated turkey warbble (at least for now) in the front by switching to red pads. The rear still squeals when wet and the pads contact rotor spokes. I'll move the caliper back to clear the rotors and report if squealing is reduced / eliminated.
    by red pads do you mean organic?? On the few disc brakes i've used they have squeeled when wet and stop when dry.

  13. #38
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    EBC Red labels. Might be the organic ones people talk about. I was adviced that they grip better but wear out faster. Squeeling when wet, not at all when dry. Got rid of the warbble, though.

    The rear is still squeeling even after moving the caliper so that the pads surely don't touch the rotor spokes. Might have to try something else.

    I have grown a dislike towards the angle-adjusting convex + concave bits on the caliper mount. They seem to have a "locked" position they revert to, even after setting the caliper angle according to the disc. I'm thinking of replacing them with solid bushings and take care of caliper alignment by facing the adapter mount. I'd only use the elongated holes on the caliper to adjust it sideways and that's it. I'm wondering if this kind of mounting method would be more rigid and reduce resonance. Any thoughts or experience on this?

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post
    EBC Red labels. Might be the organic ones people talk about. I was adviced that they grip better but wear out faster. Squeeling when wet, not at all when dry. Got rid of the warbble, though.
    According to EBC:Red pads. "These are extra high in friction but still an organic pad for use on all types of rotors' so not a full organic such as their Green pads:These are a high quality organic formulation producing an excellent all round replacement pad for pleasure riding, cross country and trekking.



    I have grown a dislike towards the angle-adjusting convex + concave bits on the caliper mount. They seem to have a "locked" position they revert to, even after setting the caliper angle according to the disc. I'm thinking of replacing them with solid bushings and take care of caliper alignment by facing the adapter mount. I'd only use the elongated holes on the caliper to adjust it sideways and that's it. I'm wondering if this kind of mounting method would be more rigid and reduce resonance. Any thoughts or experience on this?
    I tend to agree with your findings Saul however my juicy 5's on my full squish have them along with organic pads and the only squeal is when wet otherwise none.

  15. #40
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    Fwi. I've never had any long term audible issues. Used juicy 7, xo, and xx. In order to reduce the chances of cps washer bedding. once rotated one of the washers 90*. Also to reduce the chances of any torque induced movement. I have always alternated between the caliper bolts. Turning each just a hair at a time.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post

    I have grown a dislike towards the angle-adjusting convex + concave bits on the caliper mount. They seem to have a "locked" position they revert to, even after setting the caliper angle according to the disc.
    This is my experience too. The washers have some kind of "home" position that they migrate to when tightening down the mounting bolts. I put a tiny amount of grease on the convex/concave washers and that made it much easier to align the calipers. I didn't have much of a squeal problem but the little there was disappeared after the grease treatment, probably because the calipers are now better aligned.

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  17. #42
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    I just got in from a ride, and both of my Elixir 1s now pull to the bar. If you pump the lever a couple of times, you build up pressure and they work briefly. They're less than 2 months old FFS.

    Now I need to figure out whether it is worth sending them in under warranty (time and shipping cost) or not. They'll probably do a bleed and send them back. LBS said $40 to bleed the pair when I checked with them a while ago, so more $ but less time off of the bike. Or I could buy a bleed kit ($40 for Avid one, less for others w/o bleed blocks) and do it myself.

    Or I could buy new brakes from a different manufacturer...

  18. #43
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    That sounds like a problem you could face regardless of manufacturer.

    That said, I bought a set of Formula brakes to see if the grass is greener. At least I can use my existing bleed kit with those.

  19. #44
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    Saul - yeah, I understand that, its just disappointing to have to do it so soon.

    My other brakes are Magura and I can bleed them myself pretty easily. I've had to do that maybe every two years since they were new in Fall 2007. They're mineral oil though so would need a new bleed kit for the Avid DOT fluid.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Shiggy, no...
    The CRC stuff goes between the pad's backing plate and the piston surface. It doesn't go on the pad to rotor surface. During braking, you can reach a situation where the pad moves against the piston surface at a resonance frequency and create vibration/sound and thus the squeal. CRC, or what I called grease, is like a damping agent to get that movement out of resonance and thus cut noise. And, resonance can occur at several frequencies/harmonics...
    No, it's a resonance frequency between the piston and the pad. It's a resonance frequency between the pad and the rotor. Putting the CRC between the pad the the caliper piston helps damping/absorb that vibration. Car brakes 101. That's the reason many Japanese car brakes have those shims on the backing plate of the pad.

  21. #46
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    Since the pad trac was making slight contact with the disc spokes i used 5mm shims/washers between caliper & fork mount to move it farther away and test rode but to no avail it continues to warbble away. BTW this is not with Avid but Hayes stroker Tr brakes and Magura storm sl disc's. My next test step is Organic pads.
    Last edited by nvphatty; 02-16-2013 at 09:38 AM.

  22. #47
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    To no avail the above had no effect..........however the following did.

    I've done proper burnishing of pads to no avail, tried yet a 2nd set with proper bedding in but sadly no better.....UNTIL the zip-tie mod on magura storm SL discs, i installed 3 smallish ties spanning 2 spokes each on the front and the instant reduction in warbble / squeal was significant to the point i can accept what little remains. I also installed 1 zip on the rear spanning 3 spokes and it too was instantaneous as though a damper of sorts was added (actually was).
    Overall my feeling about this is perhaps the magura disc spokes are too thin width wise in their effort to shave weight, hhmm maybe, maybe not but perhaps an mech engineer can expound on such if there's one here.

  23. #48
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    Ive been having the same turkey warble with my 11' Avid Elixer 5s. The worst part is the whole bike vibrates terribly. Ive already tried a new rotor because my old G3 center lock had some play in it. It did nothing and costed me 50 ish at my LBS. They wont help me out with the problem either. Do you think this rotor would get rid of my problems? I need a 180mm so pickings are few and far.
    Shimano RT64 Rotor OE > Sale | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop

    Edit: I have tried everything you guys have mentioned before. This is a last ditch effort before replacing my whole system.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    To no avail the above had no effect..........however the following did.

    I've done proper burnishing of pads to no avail, tried yet a 2nd set with proper bedding in but sadly no better.....UNTIL the zip-tie mod on magura storm SL discs, i installed 3 smallish ties spanning 2 spokes each on the front and the instant reduction in warbble / squeal was significant to the point i can accept what little remains. I also installed 1 zip on the rear spanning 3 spokes and it too was instantaneous as though a damper of sorts was added (actually was).
    Overall my feeling about this is perhaps the magura disc spokes are too thin width wise in their effort to shave weight, hhmm maybe, maybe not but perhaps an mech engineer can expound on such if there's one here.
    UPDATE: the zip-tie method work briefly but the squall returned as before so i have now installed a pr of EBC organics and followed the break in method but again the turkey came howling back at me...FAWK!!

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