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  1. #1
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    The definitive Avid BB7 weight thread...

    Frankly, I wasted too much time putting this together to let it get buried in the weight weenie forum. It deserves a thread of its own.

    So here you have my first attempt at a comprehensive answer to "How heavy are the Avid mechs?"

    Yeah, "heavy" as in "how much do they weigh?" Only <u>you</u> can be the judge of what constitutes "too heavy."

    For the record (if it's not already obvious), I'm a big fan of Avid's mechs, but I'm not necessarily trying to defend them as "light," nor "not heavy." They are what they are, and this is just an attempt to accurately portray that.

    I pulled the pads (new, 100%) to weigh separately, figuring the original "type F" caliper uses magnets and has no use for the spreader spring. The spreader spring weight doesn't register on my scale (<1g), so I didn't weigh it separately.

    I'm also asking for your contribution. See, I'm missing a few entries. I need a Clean Sweep 203mm rotor, as well as some Roundagon 160 & 165mm rotors. I also need Post Mount adapters for 185 and 203 rotor sizes (with the longer bolts). Anything else missing? If you can take sharp photos of them on a scale, send them my way and I'll add them to the worksheet.

    Oh, and if you've got any date corrections or a "type" for the new 2008 caliper, I'll take that, too.

    The flow of the worksheet is vertical, and hopefully pretty obvious.

    <img src="http://www.booboodog.net/images/bb7-weight-worksheet.jpg">
    Last edited by Speedub.Nate; 12-14-2007 at 12:34 AM.
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  2. #2
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    great work, Nate!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by crisillo
    great work, Nate!
    Thanks! Too much work, if you ask me.

    Nothing I couldn't have (more easily) just typed into a table, without the pics.

    Luckily, only one of those rotors, calipers, and adapters was in service. But I had to pull levers off of two bikes. Boo hoo
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    Thanks! Too much work, if you ask me.

    Luckily, only one of those rotors, calipers, and adapters was in service. But I had to pull two levers off of bikes.
    Even bigger kudos then..

    I thought you just had collected the pics and weight over time....

  5. #5
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    Interesting... Though Avid claims the 2008 got lighter... it actually got heavier. Perhaps manufacturing tolerances?

    BTW, awesome post.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by crisillo
    I thought you just had collected the pics and weight over time....
    Nope, that's how much <s>crap</s> great stuff I have sitting around. I haven't eBay'ed in over a year. I'm way past due.

    ...oops, check that -- the only parts outbound are the 203 rotors & adapters, and the Mag levers. Plus a ton of spare 160 IS mounts I could probably melt down and sell as scrap aluminum.
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  7. #7
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    Nope, that's how much <s>crap</s> great stuff I have sitting around. I haven't eBay'ed in over a year. I'm way past due.

    ...oops, check that -- the only parts outbound are the 203 rotors & adapters, and the Mag levers. Plus a ton of spare 160 IS mounts I could probably melt down and sell as scrap aluminum.

    well.... if you have a 160mm rear avid adapter, that you want to let go, let me know... a buddy of mine has bb7s and uses a shimano adapter in the rear, so he is always shaving some material of the "handle" of the outside pad to be able to adjust it...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    Interesting... Though Avid claims the 2008 got lighter... it actually got heavier. Perhaps manufacturing tolerances?
    Dunno. 13g is a lot of "tolerance" on a part at that weight -- about 8%. Did Avid make the "lighter weight" claim? I haven't compared their published weights.
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  9. #9
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    BTW, this all is a spin-off of this thread over in the Save Some Weight forum: Are BB7's heavy?
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  10. #10
    Meh.
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    Maybe the newer BB7 was produced on the heavier side and older one on the lighter side? I don't know. I do recall an article saying the new BB7 is supposed to be lighter. I guess you can't always believe what you read.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    Maybe the newer BB7 was produced on the heavier side and older one on the lighter side? I don't know. I do recall an article saying the new BB7 is supposed to be lighter. I guess you can't always believe what you read.
    I dunno. I attempted a bunch of Google searches, including "<a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=opera&rls=en&hs=lJx&q =2008+avid+bb7++lighter+weight&btnG=Search">Avid BB7 2008 lighter weight</a>" and the only applicable hit was this thread!

    Avid doesn't seem to be claiming much of anything for this caliper (er, except "for fluid-o-phobes" and "...we gave the ('08) BB7 a .. new finish, inboard/outboard adjustment knobs and a beefy two-piece, forged body."

    Actually, I did email SRAM with a whole list of very specific questions a couple of months back, but they never bothered to respond to me. Waah!
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  12. #12
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    Thanks...

    You just rained on my parade. And here all along I thought I was doing pretty good with about 450g per end.

    I was looking for an excuse to get a new set of hydraulics since the Mechs seem to freeze up in the winter.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J
    You just rained on my parade. And here all along I thought I was doing pretty good with about 450g per end.
    Hey, if the desire to go hydro, plus a little "new math" are what you need to make the switch, by all means, do it. The only legit reason to stick with the Avids is because you <u>want</u> to run mechs and like the adjustments.

    Again, I'm just trying to provide some hard data.
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  14. #14
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    BB7 2008 weights

    The total weight of the bolts is about 42 grams (for 185mm IS mount and not including rotor bolts but including the two bolts that hold the two forged pieces together). So by replacing them all with titanium you are back to pre 2008 weight. They seem to have added more material on sections that will receive more loading..no doubt a CAD design and build.
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  15. #15
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    Question. I'm building up a rigid bike on a budget and was thinking of swapping my wheels from my other bike back and forth insted of buying another wheelset. My main bike has Juicy 7s with 160mm rotors. Will the BB7s work with the hydro rotors?

    Thanks

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary H
    Will the BB7s work with the hydro rotors?
    Absolutely.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    Absolutely.
    You Da Man! You just saved me alot of money and hassle!

  18. #18
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    Would an Avid Full Metal Jacket save some weight? They advertise it with " 35% lighter than equivalents section of cable housing". An Alligator Windcutter rotor (92g) could save 12g towards the 160mm Clean Sweep. Titanium bolts for the rotor would save 7g (for the six bolts).

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by trelgne
    Would an Avid Full Metal Jacket save some weight? They advertise it with " 35% lighter than equivalents section of cable housing". An Alligator Windcutter rotor (92g) could save 12g towards the 160mm Clean Sweep. Titanium bolts for the rotor would save 7g (for the six bolts).
    If that's true, then plan on 0.88g per foot instead of the 1.35g per foot I weighed.

    As for lighter rotors and bolts, those can be used to lighten up any brake, so in a relative weight comparison, it's nothing that gives the Avid Mech any advantage.
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  20. #20
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    I have Avid Mechs on all my bikes.

    How does a set of Avid Mechs (Caliper, levers, cable, housing, etc.) compare weight-wise to, let's say, XTR Hydros?? I'm really curious.

    Does hydraulic fluid weigh more or less than brake cable?

    Thanks in advance for your input.

  21. #21
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    What? No SD Ti's? FR's?

    Just kidding - nice. That's a whole lotta measuring.

  22. #22
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    I can contribute with some weights from my new Avid BB7 (2008)-Setup:

    - 1 Caliper + pads: 182g
    - CPS Hardware (1 break): 22g
    - Avid Roundagon 160mm rotor: 127g
    - 6 rotor bolts: 12g
    - 1 Avid Speed Dial SL: 78g
    - 160mm front adapter (if you have no postmount): 15g
    - Avid Full Metal Jacket (typical fullsuspension MTB setup front+rear with all parts): 130 - 140g

    So I get a total weight of 1022g for both breaks (only rear adapter needed). This is damn heavy! I will switch to 160mm Alligator Windcutter rotors, so I can save 70g and will end up with about 950g.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesoudeur
    The total weight of the bolts is about 42 grams (for 185mm IS mount and not including rotor bolts but including the two bolts that hold the two forged pieces together). So by replacing them all with titanium you are back to pre 2008 weight. They seem to have added more material on sections that will receive more loading..no doubt a CAD design and build.

    Where are you guys getting the ti hardware from??
    Thanks!
    Clayton

  24. #24
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    I just installed some 2008 BB7s, and while they're a little heavier (sorry, I don't remember the exact difference), the knobs are a hell of a lot easier to use. The inner knobs are still a beyotch to adjust, but being able to use a torx on them makes life much easier. Spring tension seems stiffer, too.
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  25. #25
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    I have lubed the threaded of the inner knob to make it smoother.
    Is it normal for the BB7 that the break pads are somewhat difficult to take out? I need a claw to do this!

  26. #26
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    I don't like the way the inner knob is attached to the caliper. On the '08 BB-7s I just installed on my son's bike I could not turn the inner knob by hand so I switched to a Torx driver. A little twist and the resistence went to zero. When I took a closer look at it the red knob popped off completely. There's a groove in the caliper body that the red knob snaps on to. If this pops off, like it did on me, the adjustment piston is free to spin and it spins easily. I popped the knob back on and it popped off again while I was adjusting it but I snapped it back on again and it has stayed on but I'm worried that it may pop off on the trail, rendering the rear brake useless. The front brake could potentially have this problem but the knob did not pop out on me so I'm less worried about it.
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  27. #27
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    The two knobs adjust differently from '07s and earlier and the '08s

    I try to get the rotor to be centered, if not just a little to the outboard side. No way do I want the rotor to push over and scrape the inboard side of the caliper. On the '07s and earlier I would loosen the mounting bolts, crank the inboard knob all the way in, then crank the outboard knob in so both pads sit tight on the rotor and then tighten the bolts. Then unwind the knobs as needed.

    On the '08s, if I crank the inboard knob all the way out it seems to pull the caliper over so that the rotor is WAY over to the outboard side, such that when I crank in the outboard knob I only have maybe one turn back out--in other words, I can't back the outboard pad out enough. I've resorted to doing it in reverse on the '08s. I first turn the OUTBOARD dial in 3 to 4 turns, then dial in the inboard pads to press against the rotor. Tighten the bolts then back out the two knobs as needed. Maybe the space in there is less than before, maybe the inboard dial moves the pad in more, I dunno, but after adjusting my earlier-style BB7s one way it took me a bit to realize it's the opposite now.
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  28. #28
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    It's that darned inner red knob. I had the exact same problem with my rear knob. When I took my Torx wrench to it to try to loosen it up the knob popped right off. After I got it reinstalled properly I was able to adjust it just like the '05 BB-7 I had on my bike.

  29. #29
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    OK, so it's not just me that had issues with the inner knob/pad (relative to the rotor).

    One other thing I noticed was that it was easier to change pads with the older calipers.
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  30. #30
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    Hail, Nate! Awesome, mate!



    Quite informative! Thanks! But is BB5 a thing of the past? Because of its less modulation compared to BB7?
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    There was no need to scare potential buyers and burn bridges "buddy"
    Tell me now, what's Product testing all bout then?

  31. #31
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    just saw this, wanted to say Props to Nate for doing it, very informative.
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  32. #32
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    I had to practice removal and installation without the spring to get it so-so right, it is not as easy as it looks

  33. #33
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    As a lot of us frequently discuss, I cannot wait for the day when someone makes a badass light weight mechanical disk setup, that would be just killer... Either that or we keep waiting for BBs to finally smarten up and lighten up. But then that would hurt the sales of expensive hydraulic setups. I am still running my BBs with pride though and am really really close to running them on my really high end bike such as many of my friends do...

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaxson
    I have Avid Mechs on all my bikes.

    How does a set of Avid Mechs (Caliper, levers, cable, housing, etc.) compare weight-wise to, let's say, XTR Hydros?? I'm really curious.

    Does hydraulic fluid weigh more or less than brake cable?

    Thanks in advance for your input.
    So late getting on this thread! So Avid Juicy 7s would be lighter overall than the BB7s! I thought opposite?!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by onegymrat
    So late getting on this thread! So Avid Juicy 7s would be lighter overall than the BB7s! I thought opposite?!
    Yeppers... you might want Avid mechs for any number of reason, but not if you're counting the grams!
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    Yeppers... you might want Avid mechs for any number of reason, but not if you're counting the grams!
    Hey Nate, thanks for the link on your signature or else I would have never found this thread. I just never thought there was much difference. My next build will most definitely have hydraulics. I rode them once on a Stumpy which I rented to ride in Santa Cruz. They were screech free and smooooooth. I loved them but really didn't give it another thought since my bb7s worked just fine. What do you think the overall weight savings would be? 200 grams?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by onegymrat
    Hey Nate, thanks for the link on your signature or else I would have never found this thread. I just never thought there was much difference. My next build will most definitely have hydraulics. I rode them once on a Stumpy which I rented to ride in Santa Cruz. They were screech free and smooooooth. I loved them but really didn't give it another thought since my bb7s worked just fine. What do you think the overall weight savings would be? 200 grams?
    100 gr per brake saving would be a good guideline.
    I had my BB7 185/SD7 levers set up in front (527 gr) and went to a Magura marta 200 set up and went to 456gr. If I I had stayed with the 180 size, I would have been around 435 gr(estimate).

    When I was looking at Formuala K24's, I was estimating about 420 gr for the 180 front.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  38. #38
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    Best BB7 information post, ever. Thank you MTBR community.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by illnacord
    Best BB7 information post, ever. Thank you MTBR community.
    Most certainly excellent work.

    My 185mm clean sweep rotors weigh 156 grams each (Type N 2002-2007 variety). I subbed them out for the Alligator Serrated 180mm rotors which only weigh 110 and 114 grams. Saved 88 grams of "rotating" weight by swapping the rotors.

    I've been running those 185mm Avid mechanicals since 2002 and the brakes are still going strong. Not bad for 6 years of use only requiring new pads every now and then.

    BB

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    Most certainly excellent work.

    My 185mm clean sweep rotors weigh 156 grams each (Type N 2002-2007 variety). I subbed them out for the Alligator Serrated 180mm rotors which only weigh 110 and 114 grams. Saved 88 grams of "rotating" weight by swapping the rotors.

    I've been running those 185mm Avid mechanicals since 2002 and the brakes are still going strong. Not bad for 6 years of use only requiring new pads every now and then.

    BB
    I was doing some maintenance tonight and weighed the old 2002 calipers. Without the CPS, pads and mounting adaptor - each caliper weighs 138 grams. I wonder what the 2009 BB7's weigh? Or are they the same as the 2008's?

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown

    I wonder what the 2009 BB7's weigh? Or are they the same as the 2008's?
    I haven't heard of a redesign. Considering they just came out, I'll bet they remain the same this year.
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  42. #42
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    What are the mounting bolt sizes for the caliper and the adapter? Also is the cinch bolt and m5X8?

    Thanks!

  43. #43
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    I have a pair of Avid Wavy(ala Magura Marta SL) 160mm rotors that weigh only 101g and stop WAY BETTER than Clean Sweep Serpentine, G2, and G3 rotors. Too bad Avid had to stop making them......Galfer was gonna sue them!
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    weight of the avid roundagon

    my roundagon 160mm of 2008 weight 130 grms

    i don´t have photos, but this is nice
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    Last edited by talvin; 12-16-2008 at 06:54 AM.

  45. #45
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    Those Avid Roundagons were very noisy, and had lousy braking bite. After trying every rotor Avid ever made- here is my ranking:

    (All Avid 160mm Rotors, on 2005 BB7):
    1) Avid Clean Sweep Serpentine(wavy) - 101g, and near-perfect, one finger stopping, wth zero noise. The BEST rotor Avid ever produced. Only a small prototype run of 500 unlabeled units were made, in 2004. Get them if you ever find them for sale. Not even the Clean Sweep G2/G3 comes close.

    2) Avid Clean Sweep G2 - 106g, and a solid performer. The pre-2007 rotors had four less V-cuts on the rotor edge, and weighed 112g. Avid's standard XC/AM race rotor.

    3) Avid Polygon - 119g, and found OEM on Avid Juicy 3/5/7 hydros. Noisy when wet, and has slightly better stopping power than the Roundagons. The rotor is basically a cross-drilled, slightly lighter version of the bottom-tier Roundagon.

    4) Avid Roundagon - 139g, and found on OEM BB5 brakesets. Offered to bring OEM bike price points down.......all at the cost of braking quality. Many BB5 owners immediately upgrade to higher-end BB7, because of adjustability, and better modulation. In my sincere opinion, the heavy, loud, and weak Roundagon is close to junk.

    Surprise....the BEST non-Avid compatible rotor, was the Hayes 160mm all-round, which weighs only 110g. The huge rotor surface cutouts are reminiscent of the old, 165mm Avid BBDB rotors, but performed ON PAR with the Clean Sweep G2!
    Last edited by Cayenne_Pepa; 12-16-2008 at 02:15 PM.
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by talvin
    my roundagon 160mm of 2008 weight 130 grms

    i don´t have photos, but this is nice
    LOL............those must be the new Avid BB7000s.....who makes the trick kickstand?
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by trelgne
    I can contribute with some weights from my new Avid BB7 (2008)-Setup:

    - 1 Caliper + pads: 182g
    - CPS Hardware (1 break): 22g
    - Avid Roundagon 160mm rotor: 127g
    - 6 rotor bolts: 12g
    - 1 Avid Speed Dial SL: 78g
    - 160mm front adapter (if you have no postmount): 15g
    - Avid Full Metal Jacket (typical fullsuspension MTB setup front+rear with all parts): 130 - 140g

    So I get a total weight of 1022g for both breaks (only rear adapter needed). This is damn heavy! I will switch to 160mm Alligator Windcutter rotors, so I can save 70g and will end up with about 950g.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but are hydraulic sets just as heavy? I think Avid lists the Juicy 7's at 395/each but I don't think that includes the levers...or does it....

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by D1PHAM
    Correct me if I'm wrong but are hydraulic sets just as heavy? I think Avid lists the Juicy 7's at 395/each but I don't think that includes the levers...or does it....
    yes, that Juicy weight is with levers, lines and oil (rotors I don't know, but don't think so, or maybe 160s)

  49. #49
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    Here's another thing to think about.
    If you use the old M952 XTR integrated brake/shifters, you're 135gms lighter than having separate hydro levers and separate shifters. It's like having a 76gm brake lever set.
    394gms for the integrated, 259gms for just the shifters.

  50. #50
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    Hardware Specs

    Hey there, I am having a hard time finding any info on the stock IS mounting bolts (the bolts that mount the caliper to the IS mount on the fork) replacements. Someone posted a "ti bolt" setup. What about just replacing the stock bolts - can these be found at the local hardware store - does anyone have the specs?
    Lead actor Will of the Sun, Author Platform Pedal Shootout 820K views

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