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  1. #1
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    Carbon Brake rotors

    check these out rotors out, I wonder if they reduce the "turkey worbble" noise? doesnt look like they have hit the market yet.

    Designed for a better ride. -


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    They will probably have to go with special pads. Sintered would destroy the thing in one ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gotfish8 View Post
    check these out rotors out, I wonder if they reduce the "turkey worbble" noise? doesnt look like they have hit the market yet.

    Designed for a better ride. -

    Carbon fiber is a poor material for rotors.

    I have been using Avid BBDB/BB7s for 13 years with various rotors and still have not experienced "turkey gobble" or heard it from other riders' brakes.
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  4. #4
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    WW will be all over these .... don't think i would touch them with a 10' pole though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Carbon fiber is a poor material for rotors.

    I have been using Avid BBDB/BB7s for 13 years with various rotors and still have not experienced "turkey gobble" or heard it from other riders' brakes.
    Naah Shiggy, that sure depends

    I made a carbon rotor (and pads), using a composite intended for the purpose.
    That brake is anything but "poor".
    The thing is though, that the composites that are cheap enough for consumer applications, are pretty poor.
    If people were willing to pay for the right material, steel rotors would be a Wallyworld exclusive product.


    Magura

    EDIT: Pics of a "not so poor" composite brake.

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    These might work considering they use carbon rotors on cars. I think they claim to cool better, but they turn a glowing red when hot, don't trust me on the cooling thing though. I don't know what type of pads they use.

  7. #7
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    CF rotors have been around in other arenas for yrs with steller success. It's application specific no doubt with 'heat' being the determining factor.

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    What is SiCCC?
    SiCCC, is a Silicon Carbide, Ceramic, and Carbon fiber braking material developed specifically for cycling. Our goal from the start was to create a more reliable, better wearing, lighter weight brake rotor. Silicon Carbide for friction, Ceramic for heat, and Carbon fiber for strength.

    The SiCCC disc rotor braking surface provides a level of power and progressive feel that equals or surpasses the best conventional rotors. The progressive power is excellent; not much lever effort is required, and the response is quick but not over-the-bar grabby by any means.

    The SiCCC disc rotor braking surface is a non-metallic composite and it is thermally inert, meaning it doesnít expand and contract as all metal rotors do. There is no heat-induced stress distortion on the disc.

    This performance is available instantly: no warm-up needed.
    Hot or cold. Wet or dry.

    All of this and a serious weight reduction.
    This can translate into improved suspension performance due to less inertia and handling at speed by reducing gyroscopic effect. The average rider noticing this science at play is debated, the joy of a turkey-gobble free bike that is also lighter is undeniable.


    How it works:
    Braking, in this case, is turning kinetic energy into heat. Bicycle disc brakes operate on a transfer film principle. Pad material is transferred to the braking surface of the rotor (which is the reason for a bedding in period). This transfer results in both the friction and the lubrication to provide usable braking. The specific selection of materials determines the progression and wear of the rotor and pads.

    Speaking of wear:
    Currently, it is easy to chew through the highest priced rotors on the market in a season. SiCCC rotors? Well, let's just say we will be in the pad business because these rotors are just too tough. The longevity of the rotor braking surface is down right astounding.

    What are SiCCC rotors compatible with?
    Sintered metal, organic, semi metallic, kevlar, ceramic, resin and 'unidentified' oem pad materials were all tested. All major hydraulic brake systems, Dot 4, Dot 5, mineral oil as well as mechanical systems were tested.


    The two different options explained:
    The SiCCC material is expensive and it is challenging to work with. But for total weight reduction, no frills, no fasteners, just light and tough - a one piece rotor is the lightest we can make. That means it gets our soon to be coveted -SFL- designation. You will instantly know what that acronym stands for when you pick up a product bearing that trademark. Some of us will tolerate an extra gram or ten for a color keyed component or to save a buck. The carbon spider on the two piece rotor reduces manufacturing cost. The rivets add some weight, paint adds some too. A color matched spider on your favorite carbon bike? Yes, please. We know it's a hard choice. That's why we offered both, we couldn't bear to leave one on the shelf.

    One more thing on colors, get us some feedback!:
    Turner orange, Ibis silver, Santa Cruz yellow, Yeti teal? Why don't you tab on over to Facebook and like us, then tag a picture of the bike you are going to bolt up these SiCCC rotors to. If you sign up for the 2 piece, we will collect your color choice when the options are photographed, post project funding.

    Other things to note:
    Like all rotors, it is important to bed in the pads+ rotors. At least a few laps around the block in a controlled environment to accurately follow the bed in procedure in the video on our site and written instructions. New brakes, pads or drip something on the rotor? Remove, clean the rotor with acetone and start the bed-in over. Also, 200mm will come later in two piece and SFL. SFL first. There are no plans for two piece 140mm because of manufacturing efficiencies.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridonkulus View Post
    These might work considering they use carbon rotors on cars. I think they claim to cool better, but they turn a glowing red when hot, don't trust me on the cooling thing though. I don't know what type of pads they use.
    CF pads as well hence requiring heat for effectiveness.

  10. #10
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    It the same technology as these Brembo Brakes - Carbon ceramic discs

    I would try them, I think innovation is awesome!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    CF pads as well hence requiring heat for effectiveness.
    No. That is an old wives tale.


    Magura

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    No. That is an old wives tale.


    Magura
    which part the heat or CF pads?? dunno bout the wives but wise tale yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ridonkulus View Post
    These might work considering they use carbon rotors on cars. I think they claim to cool better, but they turn a glowing red when hot, don't trust me on the cooling thing though. I don't know what type of pads they use.
    This is due to the way IR radiation works. The higher the temp, the higher radiation.
    The is a log. function, so like 10C higher rotor temp, gives like 30% higher radiation, once you're up around 120C you really feel the difference. The rotors will be able to dissipate a huge amount of energy.


    Magura

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    which part the heat or CF pads?? dunno bout the wives but wise tale yes.
    The requirement of heat to work proper.

    Mine are brutal when cold.

    As I recall, the effect increases like 10-20% from cold to ideal temp.

    Ideal working temp is reached pretty quick though, when keeping the mass low, not that it makes a noticeable difference in a bike brake.


    Magura

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    The requirement of heat to work proper.

    Mine are brutal when cold.

    As I recall, the effect increases like 10-20% from cold to ideal temp.

    Ideal working temp is reached pretty quick though, when keeping the mass low, not that it makes a noticeable difference in a bike brake.


    Magura
    ahhhhhh i see and frankly makes sense with constant R/D over the yrs. My experience comes from MC racing when they used shrouds to help them get up to operating temp and retain it.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    ahhhhhh i see and frankly makes sense with constant R/D over the yrs. My experience comes from MC racing when they used shrouds to help them get up to operating temp and retain it.
    That would be like 15 years ago, no?
    Back when the rotors were massive, and vibrated like they were paid to do so.


    Magura

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    That would be like 15 years ago, no?

    Magura
    yes roughly. now days the MOTOGP bikes have much smaller/thinner rotors that work straight away however any sign of wet and iron rotors get put into action.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridonkulus View Post
    These might work considering they use carbon rotors on cars. I think they claim to cool better, but they turn a glowing red when hot, don't trust me on the cooling thing though. I don't know what type of pads they use.
    The automotive race rotors are carbon/carbon, not carbon fiber, and need to be near red hot to be effective.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    yes roughly. now days the MOTOGP bikes have much smaller/thinner rotors that work straight away however any sign of wet and iron rotors get put into action.
    Ok, so I am chatting with somebody to whom it wasn't an old wives tale, but real experience, just long ago

    I have noticed the performance going down in the wet, but on a bike, there is still plenty of excess brake power from the composite brake I have.
    The only thing I can come up with, that is not so nice, is the transition from wet to dry.
    It can be pretty brutal if I don't pay attention. It is just a matter of habit though. Once you are used to this, you pay more attention to conditions that may cause a rapid transition.

    On a MOTOGP bike though, I would probably miss a heartbeat or two, if surprised by such a transition

    Magura

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    The automotive race rotors are carbon/carbon, not carbon fiber, and need to be near red hot to be effective.
    Look a couple of posts above, and such a type of rotor material, would be what you see

    It's been a while since that was sorted out.


    Magura

  21. #21
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    It's all conjecture till I try it. Maybe one day.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehigh View Post
    It's all conjecture till I try it. Maybe one day.
    LOL!

    Drop by and have a go.


    Magura

  23. #23
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    Are you in the United States?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehigh View Post
    Are you in the United States?
    No, Denmark.

    Drop by though. The weather sucks, but the food is fair


    Magura

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    No, Denmark.

    Drop by though. The weather sucks, but the food is fair
    And the ladies are pretty damn fine
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsilva View Post
    And the ladies are pretty damn fine
    I hate to disappoint you, but that's an old wives tale

    Look further south in Europe my friend.


    Magura

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    I hate to disappoint you, but that's an old wives tale

    Look further south in Europe my friend.
    I am from southern europe It is just a case of "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence"
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  28. #28
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    On a different note.

    I just had a chat with one of the guys behind these brakes.
    They are definitely on to something.
    The way they make them, is close to the brake I made, but with a fraction of the cost.

    Looking forward to see where this leads.

    Magura

  29. #29
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    They have a kickstarter page up, SiCCC Bicycle Brake Rotor: Silicon Carbide-Ceramic-Carbon by Kettle Cycles — Kickstarter although not yet active. At the price ( at least in this stage ) of $165 i might be on the backers list tbh.
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  30. #30
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    Could this thread be spam, intended to garner donations to line someone's pockets?

    Make no mistake, there are NO carbon fiber rotors offered for sale by this company. Right now, it's just a figment of the imagination of some wannabe.

    I checked the location for "the company," and it appears to be an apartment or a townhome in Illinois. I'll not divulge the exact location out of respect for privacy. Mister GotFish, you're also from Illinois. Are you, or do you know the people behind these so called carbon fiber rotors?

    What's telling is that this "company" doesn't really sell a product, but they are begging for money. They are begging for $15,000 in donations for this project. But their web page admits that this is not a "live project," it is only a "draft." If I donate $100, what will happen to it?

    If this company actually had a legitimate product, plenty of venture capitalists would be lining up to invest. I try to be openminded. If you send me a sample of your product, I'll evaluate it. If i find it to be a worthy product, perhaps we can talk about an investment in the company. I'll need four six bolt rotors, two 203 mm and two 160 mm. I'll give you an honest evaluation. Send three more 160's, two 203's, and a 185, and I'll do a better evaluation for you. PM me for the shipping address.

    The company's web page lists a bunch of "authorized dealers" across the country. I followed the links, and NONE of these authorized dealers actually exists. None.

    As far as I can tell, the company sells nothing, but they will gleefully accept donations, nothing more.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post
    Could this thread be spam, intended to garner donations to line someone's pockets?

    Make no mistake, there are NO carbon fiber rotors offered for sale by this company. Right now, it's just a figment of the imagination of some wannabe.
    Did you actually read what Kickstarter is about?
    It's not donations, but a number of confirmed sales to get a new company off the ground.

    Now captain Obvious, can you figure how to add up, that they are on Kickstarter, for getting their FIRST production series off the ground, and that they have not run the FIRST series yet, thus only have prototypes, which are not for sale.

    It's funny that you choose the first real innovative product in a long time, for your paranoid post, and not one of all the semi-fraud products we have seen lately.


    I especially like your logic: if they won't give you their product for free, they don't have nothing
    If I were in their place, you'd be the last person I'd consider as product tester.



    Magura

  32. #32
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    I stand corrected. That guy runs a great company that makes a wonderful product and consumers are beating down the door of his apartment to get their hands on these rotors and "kickstarter" is a great business plan used by many successful companies that employ thousands of people.

  33. #33
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    Have to start somewhere I guess. Every WW in the world will have a set of these. I'm no WW but I
    love to shave grams when I can, and rotors were something I've been waiting to become lighter
    one day.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bataivah View Post
    Have to start somewhere I guess. Every WW in the world will have a set of these. I'm no WW but I love to shave grams when I can, and rotors were something I've been waiting to become lighter one day.
    If not these it'll be something else down the road...who knows CF uni/dual crown forks W/hollow Ti QR axles or CF suss linkages. but rest assure it will always be something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post
    I stand corrected. That guy runs a great company that makes a wonderful product and consumers are beating down the door of his apartment to get their hands on these rotors and "kickstarter" is a great business plan used by many successful companies that employ thousands of people.
    Kickstarter is a service that allows startups to sell a batch of prototypes, without worrying about leftover stock. A colleague of mine currently makes and sells some electronic device over that platform.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post
    I stand corrected. That guy runs a great company that makes a wonderful product and consumers are beating down the door of his apartment to get their hands on these rotors and "kickstarter" is a great business plan used by many successful companies that employ thousands of people.
    Actually thousands of profitable and known businesses started on Kickstarter and some of their projects reach the multi-million mark. Last years they reached the 100 million dollar mark in funding ... so yes there are thousand of successful projects/companies that started on Kickstarter.
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  37. #37
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    I am very very interested in these. Will pick them up tomorrow if they fit the hope v4 setup at the 203-180 sizes. They sound cool, and the price is low enough to mess around with them.

  38. #38
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    I must say, personally, I find this idea quite interesting. Quite.

  39. #39
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    So what is the curing/ treatment/ preparation processes are you using? No need to be too revealing...just curious!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialWarr View Post
    So what is the curing/ treatment/ preparation processes are you using? No need to be too revealing...just curious!
    If you're asking about my brake, I have to say that I can't tell you (well, I also won't) due to my confidentiality with my supplier.

    If you ask about the brakes from the company in Illinois, I can tell they won't tell, cause I've already asked when I talked to them a couple of days ago


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  41. #41
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    I was thinking about yours, but I can't say I expected a detailed lay-up or anything.... I understand the confidentiality agreement argument....I don't want to get anyone in trouble, I was just curious.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialWarr View Post
    I was thinking about yours, but I can't say I expected a detailed lay-up or anything.... I understand the confidentiality agreement argument....I don't want to get anyone in trouble, I was just curious.
    Pretty much the latest and greatest in composite friction materials, is the Carbenix 4000.
    I would think you could find some info about that online.

    Mine and theirs, are pretty close, since we are talking SIC composite.


    Magura

  43. #43
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    Carbon fiber or composite rotors? Sounds like an expensive solution to a problem that largely doesn't exist.
    Last edited by 410sprint; 11-12-2012 at 01:24 PM.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 410sprint View Post
    Carbon fiber or composite rotors? Sounds like an expensive solution to a problem that largely doesn't exist.
    That depends how you define the word "problem"

    A lighter rotor, that is very hard wearing, and immune to fading.

    That seems pretty nice to me.

    I am at least very happy with mine.


    Magura

  45. #45
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    Just to chime in, I am not sure what happened to them, yet Fibre-Lyte of the UK offered carbon brake discs around 2008. Maybe some of our UK friends might be able to shed some light on these. I do not know if they were for show or not. What I do know is that I do not see them on their catalog anymore.
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    That depends how you define the word "problem"

    A lighter rotor, that is very hard wearing, and immune to fading.

    That seems pretty nice to me.

    I am at least very happy with mine.


    Magura
    You have a set? Pictures.

  47. #47
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    No reason carbon-ceramic brakes would not work on a bike, but they would likely be crazy expensive if done properly. Production cars from Ferrari, Porsche, etc. have offerred CF rotors for over a decade, now. Replacement cost is about 5 grand PER WHEEL.
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  48. #48
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    These aren't carbon ceramic, that is a totally different beast. Interesting concept these brakes are, wonder how well they compare to their metal counterparts.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    I hate to disappoint you, but that's an old wives tale

    Look further south in Europe my friend.


    Magura
    Hey man, when I was in Santa Cruz I met two Danish girls from Aarhus who were hitch-hiking through the state. When they looked at my bikes in the back, she said, "oooh you're must be into downhill" with a cute smile and wide eyes and all her Danish accent.

    What are the odds?

    (so you're saying when I try your brakes you won't have fine Danish women serving our end of the day dinner?)

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post
    I stand corrected. That guy runs a great company that makes a wonderful product and consumers are beating down the door of his apartment to get their hands on these rotors and "kickstarter" is a great business plan used by many successful companies that employ thousands of people.
    I took out the eye roll emoticon from your statement and now it reads much more truthfully. Sorry man, but your sarcasm isn't carrying you too far here. Try being a little bit more optimistic. You aren't saving anyone from anything by being so scathing, especially yourself.

  50. #50
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    This is very interesting
    Even if they werent so light just the heat dissipation characteristics would be worth it

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