Carbon Brake rotors

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  • 11-10-2012
    gotfish8
    Carbon Brake rotors
    check these out rotors out, I wonder if they reduce the "turkey worbble" noise? doesnt look like they have hit the market yet.

    Designed for a better ride. -

    http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...29608974_n.png
  • 11-10-2012
    Millfox
    They will probably have to go with special pads. Sintered would destroy the thing in one ride.
  • 11-10-2012
    shiggy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gotfish8 View Post
    check these out rotors out, I wonder if they reduce the "turkey worbble" noise? doesnt look like they have hit the market yet.

    Designed for a better ride. -

    http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...29608974_n.png

    Carbon fiber is a poor material for rotors.

    I have been using Avid BBDB/BB7s for 13 years with various rotors and still have not experienced "turkey gobble" or heard it from other riders' brakes.
  • 11-10-2012
    danielsilva
    WW will be all over these .... don't think i would touch them with a 10' pole though.
  • 11-10-2012
    Mr.Magura
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Carbon fiber is a poor material for rotors.

    I have been using Avid BBDB/BB7s for 13 years with various rotors and still have not experienced "turkey gobble" or heard it from other riders' brakes.

    Naah Shiggy, that sure depends ;)

    I made a carbon rotor (and pads), using a composite intended for the purpose.
    That brake is anything but "poor".
    The thing is though, that the composites that are cheap enough for consumer applications, are pretty poor.
    If people were willing to pay for the right material, steel rotors would be a Wallyworld exclusive product.


    Magura :)

    EDIT: Pics of a "not so poor" composite brake.
  • 11-10-2012
    ridonkulus
    These might work considering they use carbon rotors on cars. I think they claim to cool better, but they turn a glowing red when hot, don't trust me on the cooling thing though. I don't know what type of pads they use.
  • 11-10-2012
    nvphatty
    CF rotors have been around in other arenas for yrs with steller success. It's application specific no doubt with 'heat' being the determining factor.
  • 11-10-2012
    gotfish8
    What is SiCCC?
    SiCCC, is a Silicon Carbide, Ceramic, and Carbon fiber braking material developed specifically for cycling. Our goal from the start was to create a more reliable, better wearing, lighter weight brake rotor. Silicon Carbide for friction, Ceramic for heat, and Carbon fiber for strength.

    The SiCCC disc rotor braking surface provides a level of power and progressive feel that equals or surpasses the best conventional rotors. The progressive power is excellent; not much lever effort is required, and the response is quick but not over-the-bar grabby by any means.

    The SiCCC disc rotor braking surface is a non-metallic composite and it is thermally inert, meaning it doesn’t expand and contract as all metal rotors do. There is no heat-induced stress distortion on the disc.

    This performance is available instantly: no warm-up needed.
    Hot or cold. Wet or dry.

    All of this and a serious weight reduction.
    This can translate into improved suspension performance due to less inertia and handling at speed by reducing gyroscopic effect. The average rider noticing this science at play is debated, the joy of a turkey-gobble free bike that is also lighter is undeniable.


    How it works:
    Braking, in this case, is turning kinetic energy into heat. Bicycle disc brakes operate on a transfer film principle. Pad material is transferred to the braking surface of the rotor (which is the reason for a bedding in period). This transfer results in both the friction and the lubrication to provide usable braking. The specific selection of materials determines the progression and wear of the rotor and pads.

    Speaking of wear:
    Currently, it is easy to chew through the highest priced rotors on the market in a season. SiCCC rotors? Well, let's just say we will be in the pad business because these rotors are just too tough. The longevity of the rotor braking surface is down right astounding.

    What are SiCCC rotors compatible with?
    Sintered metal, organic, semi metallic, kevlar, ceramic, resin and 'unidentified' oem pad materials were all tested. All major hydraulic brake systems, Dot 4, Dot 5, mineral oil as well as mechanical systems were tested.


    The two different options explained:
    The SiCCC material is expensive and it is challenging to work with. But for total weight reduction, no frills, no fasteners, just light and tough - a one piece rotor is the lightest we can make. That means it gets our soon to be coveted -SFL- designation. You will instantly know what that acronym stands for when you pick up a product bearing that trademark. Some of us will tolerate an extra gram or ten for a color keyed component or to save a buck. The carbon spider on the two piece rotor reduces manufacturing cost. The rivets add some weight, paint adds some too. A color matched spider on your favorite carbon bike? Yes, please. We know it's a hard choice. That's why we offered both, we couldn't bear to leave one on the shelf.

    One more thing on colors, get us some feedback!:
    Turner orange, Ibis silver, Santa Cruz yellow, Yeti teal? Why don't you tab on over to Facebook and like us, then tag a picture of the bike you are going to bolt up these SiCCC rotors to. If you sign up for the 2 piece, we will collect your color choice when the options are photographed, post project funding.

    Other things to note:
    Like all rotors, it is important to bed in the pads+ rotors. At least a few laps around the block in a controlled environment to accurately follow the bed in procedure in the video on our site and written instructions. New brakes, pads or drip something on the rotor? Remove, clean the rotor with acetone and start the bed-in over. Also, 200mm will come later in two piece and SFL. SFL first. There are no plans for two piece 140mm because of manufacturing efficiencies.
  • 11-10-2012
    nvphatty
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ridonkulus View Post
    These might work considering they use carbon rotors on cars. I think they claim to cool better, but they turn a glowing red when hot, don't trust me on the cooling thing though. I don't know what type of pads they use.

    CF pads as well hence requiring heat for effectiveness.
  • 11-10-2012
    gotfish8
    It the same technology as these Brembo Brakes - Carbon ceramic discs

    I would try them, I think innovation is awesome!
  • 11-10-2012
    Mr.Magura
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    CF pads as well hence requiring heat for effectiveness.

    No. That is an old wives tale.


    Magura :)
  • 11-10-2012
    nvphatty
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    No. That is an old wives tale.


    Magura :)

    which part the heat or CF pads?? dunno bout the wives but wise tale yes.;)
  • 11-10-2012
    Mr.Magura
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ridonkulus View Post
    These might work considering they use carbon rotors on cars. I think they claim to cool better, but they turn a glowing red when hot, don't trust me on the cooling thing though. I don't know what type of pads they use.

    This is due to the way IR radiation works. The higher the temp, the higher radiation.
    The is a log. function, so like 10C higher rotor temp, gives like 30% higher radiation, once you're up around 120C you really feel the difference. The rotors will be able to dissipate a huge amount of energy.


    Magura :)
  • 11-10-2012
    Mr.Magura
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    which part the heat or CF pads?? dunno bout the wives but wise tale yes.;)

    The requirement of heat to work proper.

    Mine are brutal when cold.

    As I recall, the effect increases like 10-20% from cold to ideal temp.

    Ideal working temp is reached pretty quick though, when keeping the mass low, not that it makes a noticeable difference in a bike brake.


    Magura :)
  • 11-10-2012
    nvphatty
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    The requirement of heat to work proper.

    Mine are brutal when cold.

    As I recall, the effect increases like 10-20% from cold to ideal temp.

    Ideal working temp is reached pretty quick though, when keeping the mass low, not that it makes a noticeable difference in a bike brake.


    Magura :)

    ahhhhhh i see and frankly makes sense with constant R/D over the yrs. My experience comes from MC racing when they used shrouds to help them get up to operating temp and retain it.
  • 11-10-2012
    Mr.Magura
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    ahhhhhh i see and frankly makes sense with constant R/D over the yrs. My experience comes from MC racing when they used shrouds to help them get up to operating temp and retain it.

    That would be like 15 years ago, no?
    Back when the rotors were massive, and vibrated like they were paid to do so.


    Magura :)
  • 11-10-2012
    nvphatty
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    That would be like 15 years ago, no?

    Magura :)

    yes roughly. now days the MOTOGP bikes have much smaller/thinner rotors that work straight away however any sign of wet and iron rotors get put into action.
  • 11-10-2012
    shiggy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ridonkulus View Post
    These might work considering they use carbon rotors on cars. I think they claim to cool better, but they turn a glowing red when hot, don't trust me on the cooling thing though. I don't know what type of pads they use.

    The automotive race rotors are carbon/carbon, not carbon fiber, and need to be near red hot to be effective.
  • 11-10-2012
    Mr.Magura
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    yes roughly. now days the MOTOGP bikes have much smaller/thinner rotors that work straight away however any sign of wet and iron rotors get put into action.

    Ok, so I am chatting with somebody to whom it wasn't an old wives tale, but real experience, just long ago :thumbsup:

    I have noticed the performance going down in the wet, but on a bike, there is still plenty of excess brake power from the composite brake I have.
    The only thing I can come up with, that is not so nice, is the transition from wet to dry.
    It can be pretty brutal if I don't pay attention. It is just a matter of habit though. Once you are used to this, you pay more attention to conditions that may cause a rapid transition.

    On a MOTOGP bike though, I would probably miss a heartbeat or two, if surprised by such a transition :D

    Magura :)
  • 11-10-2012
    Mr.Magura
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    The automotive race rotors are carbon/carbon, not carbon fiber, and need to be near red hot to be effective.

    Look a couple of posts above, and such a type of rotor material, would be what you see ;)

    It's been a while since that was sorted out.


    Magura :)
  • 11-10-2012
    ehigh
    It's all conjecture till I try it. Maybe one day.
  • 11-10-2012
    Mr.Magura
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ehigh View Post
    It's all conjecture till I try it. Maybe one day.

    LOL! :D

    Drop by and have a go.


    Magura :)
  • 11-10-2012
    ehigh
    Are you in the United States?
  • 11-10-2012
    Mr.Magura
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ehigh View Post
    Are you in the United States?

    No, Denmark.

    Drop by though. The weather sucks, but the food is fair ;)


    Magura :)
  • 11-10-2012
    danielsilva
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    No, Denmark.

    Drop by though. The weather sucks, but the food is fair ;)

    And the ladies are pretty damn fine :thumbsup: