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  1. #701
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
    So how much longer before you get them into action ?

    Still interested to see the results.
    in the process of getting frame sanded and altered at mo, so a few more weeks yet.

  2. #702
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    Quote Originally Posted by poynt View Post
    I have a set of the Alpha's but still in the process of a rebuild so haven't yet had a chance to really test them. I am trying the TruckerCo pads (organic semi-metallic) to see if they will work, Trucker even offered to send me a choice of pads to try and feedback to them any results.
    Didn't you have a confirmed weight of 41 grams on the Alpha 160mm ?
    Thanks for the tip on the pads, I will have mine this week.

  3. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by xc71 View Post
    Didn't you have a confirmed weight of 41 grams on the Alpha 160mm ?
    Thanks for the tip on the pads, I will have mine this week.
    I managed to get mine when they were doing the two for the price of 1 promo

    140 ans 160mm rotors
    Carbon Brake rotors-alpha-140mm-carbon-rotor.jpgCarbon Brake rotors-alpha-160mm-carbon-rotor.jpg

  4. #704
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    Thanks for the scale shots. Can you give a quick indication of consistency, i.e. are they "flat"? How about width? Thx.

  5. #705
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    width is accurate at smidge under 2mm, I lightly sanded the edges of the disc as they were a little too square/sharpe. Flatness is OK, I get a little rub, but I think that is more to do with my Formula brakes and pad clearances than the discs themselves.

  6. #706
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    Quote Originally Posted by poynt View Post
    width is accurate at smidge under 2mm, I lightly sanded the edges of the disc as they were a little too square/sharpe. Flatness is OK, I get a little rub, but I think that is more to do with my Formula brakes and pad clearances than the discs themselves.
    Lucky you for getting them at a good price.

    What pads are you using with them ? What calipers ?

    How is the braking ? esp. compared to steel rotors ?

    Any pics of them mounted ?

    Thanks in advance

  7. #707
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    Quote Originally Posted by xc71 View Post
    Damn, Tracks your still alive after cookin up 160mm of bacon every Sunday morning for last year on those rotors.
    Saturated fat isn't all that bad for you they now say

  8. #708
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    Quote Originally Posted by las-palmas View Post
    I am wasting my time here. Shall stop with that! Good bye wise guys
    LOL

    Dont let the door hit ya in the arse on the way out.

    And please pass the bacon!

  9. #709
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    This is one of those items, that based on history & past experiences, should be forgotten about and no further money wasted.

    HOWEVER, there are a few people out there in the know that understand these puppies, and I am keen as mustard (but a bit too broke) to see them work.

    It seems the key sticking point is that they need to be sold as a rotor/pad set, in that the pads need to be of the right material (according to those wise poeple) in order for it to work properly. Still trying to understand myself why this is so, and will therefore still wait patiently on the sidelines watching with interest until that time.

    So, keenly waiting on poynt's experiences and feedback

  10. #710
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    Just noticed that they are now offering the rotors with discounts ranging from 45% to 17% off.

    140mm reduced to 56 Euro (from 102)
    160mm reduced to 67 Euro (from 105)
    180mm reduced to 74 Euro (from 109)
    203mm reduced to 98 Euro (from 119)

    Hmmmmmmmm

    Fired off an email to them the other day but haven't rec'd a response yet.

  11. #711
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
    This is one of those items, that based on history & past experiences, should be forgotten about and no further money wasted.

    ...
    Agreed.

    We were all burned with the Kettle, and while they are great for cooking B A C O N, they aren't good for much else. Looking at the Alphas, they seem identical - not that it means much. Perhaps they are entirely different. However carbon-ceramic is carbon-ceramic, right?

    We absolutely need to know if there's an optimal pad required, and more importantly, if we can readily get them.



    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
    Just noticed that they are now offering the rotors with discounts ranging from 45% to 17% off.

    ...
    Don't do this to me Michael. Don't tempt me with the sale prices. Don't do it. Stop. Please. No power. Must... speak ... slowly.

  12. #712
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    Quote Originally Posted by phlegm View Post

    Don't do this to me Michael. Don't tempt me with the sale prices. Don't do it. Stop. Please. No power. Must... speak ... slowly.
    Tell me about it !!!

    Still means a A$170 investment, but don't have the spare readies this week.

    I've done some online reviews for another forum, so have contacted the site owner to see if he can wangle something. Ironically, we just missed out on getting some early Kettle rotors ......

  13. #713
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    Alpha has got a mention on Bike Rumor

    https://www.bikerumor.com/2016/11/18...-brake-rotors/

    Gotta laugh at some of the responses though.

    I still find it interesting that they are very non-specific with the recommended pads. They don't mention a brand, specific compound or even provide a link to a recommended supplier.

  14. #714
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
    Alpha has got a mention on Bike Rumor

    https://www.bikerumor.com/2016/11/18...-brake-rotors/

    Gotta laugh at some of the responses though.

    I still find it interesting that they are very non-specific with the recommended pads. They don't mention a brand, specific compound or even provide a link to a recommended supplier.
    Come clean, you skimmed the first paragraph didn't you .

    They says that with ceramic brake pads it out perform steel rotors.

  15. #715
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    You are certainly a well-educated and polite person.
    I wish you all the best with your quality opinions about brake systems; and junk food as well. Some of your comments might be better if they were placed in another forum, but that is of course only my opinion.
    On the other hand, saying such intelligent things as: mmmm bacon – just might be the reason that your reputation is so high.
    Sorry for not answering before, but I only go here now and then to see if something more interesting than your comments, maybe about brake pads that does function with carbon rotors would come up.


    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    LOL

    Dont let the door hit ya in the arse on the way out.

    And please pass the bacon!
    errare humanum est

  16. #716
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    las-palmas - we're just having a bit of fun here at a product (Kettle carbon discs) that just didn't work. I personally bought them via the Kickstarter, and several other people did as well. I find it cathartic to laugh about it.

    I'm not sure why you're so offended to the random jokes about processed meat, but surely we have the right to some fun.

    Amidst the bacon references, there are some responses as we dig to see what the Alphas are capable of, and what pads are required. I'm somewhat pessimistic, as design-wise, and composition-wise they are nearly identical to the failed Kettle rotors, and thus I'm concerned that the same issues will arise. poynt has even confirmed some rub (non-flatness) which is another thing I struggled with when I beta-tested the Kettles.

    Now, if there's a different surface coating on the Alphas, or a different pad composition that works - great - I guess we'll find out.

    In the meantime, I wish you smokey-goodness.

  17. #717
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    At least someone here is chill!
    And it is snowing ... deep up North right now.
    Perhaps I can use my discs as a hotplate for my waxing iron?

  18. #718
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    Offers finished, that was very close almost pressed the button.

    Will wait on performance feedback :-)

  19. #719
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    I would stear clear of any non metal rotor. I was lucky enough to get one of the first sets of kettle rotors and also 3 sets of upgraded rotors including pads. I still have them and took them out of there box last week when I was organizing my bike parts. They are so badly warped it's not even funny, +- 4mm or more. I really liked the feel and power with the sicc pads. Best setup braking system I have ever used. The problem was that they were never true and even without use got more out of true everyday. The static friction doesn't increase on them like a normal rotor does. You could feather them at the very edge of traction, especially on the rear.
    This style of rotor is manufactured under tension, then machined flat. That tension is released as the rotor wears or the internal bonds break down, warping the rotor and since you can't true them they turn into junk. Once burned twice shy.
    I recommend staying away from all look alikes for the foreseeable future.
    Ohh and Bacon mmmmmmhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmm. sizzle sizzle.
    Last edited by alexbn921; 11-28-2016 at 08:48 AM. Reason: Not really 20 mm out. only 3 to 4

  20. #720
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    Carbon weave seems fishy to me. The pads aren't riding on carbon, they're riding on the epoxy that was used to hold it all together. At least, until the rotors wear a bit, at which point the pads are now alternating between riding on epoxy and riding on the high spots in the carbon weave. I can only wonder what that does for performance (and consistency) but I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig.

    But on the other hand, if you're super eager to shave an ounce from each axle... Who am I to judge?

    I wonder if it would be possible to make something more like the rotors used in race cars and cost-no-object sports cars, but tailored to the temperature ranges of mountain bikes. Whoever makes those has apparently figured out how to cope with heat and wear, so bike rotors ought to be a trivial exercise.

    Then again, if I had the expertise and tooling to make $$,$$$ race car rotors I doubt I could be bothered to invest in R&D and tooling for $$$ bike rotors. So I'm not holding my breath.

  21. #721
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    I would stear clear of any non metal rotor. I was lucky enough to get one of the first sets of kettle rotors and also 3 sets of upgraded rotors including pads. I still have them and took them out of there box last week when I was organizing my bike parts. They are so badly warped it's not even funny, +- 20mm or more. I really liked the feel and power with the sicc pads. Best setup braking system I have ever used. The problem was that they were never true and even without use got more out of true everyday. The static friction doesn't increase on them like a normal rotor does. You could feather them at the very edge of traction, especially on the rear.
    This style of rotor is manufactured under tension, then machined flat. That tension is released as the rotor wears or the internal bonds break down, warping the rotor and since you can't true them they turn into junk. Once burned twice shy.
    I recommend staying away from all look alikes for the foreseeable future.
    Ohh and Bacon mmmmmmhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmm. sizzle sizzle.
    How did you manage to warp your rotors 20mm. Did you get run over by a bus or loose your bike over a cliff? I have a couple of Kettle rotors with some warping, but its less than 2mm. At 20mm the wheel will not turn even with both brake pads removed.

  22. #722
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS View Post
    Carbon weave seems fishy to me. The pads aren't riding on carbon, they're riding on the epoxy that was used to hold it all together. At least, until the rotors wear a bit, at which point the pads are now alternating between riding on epoxy and riding on the high spots in the carbon weave. I can only wonder what that does for performance (and consistency) but I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig.
    I'm not sure I understand you.
    You are saying that there is actually epoxy in the discs?

  23. #723
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    If you can remember back to the 90s and rim brakes, I am sure mavic used to coat the rims brake surface with something hard wearing (ceramic material?)

    From some previous experience there is technology out there to high energy deposition coat a range of materials onto a base object, does anyone know if this was what Kettle were doing to their rotors as a post production process?

  24. #724
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    Quote Originally Posted by TracksFromHell View Post
    I'm not sure I understand you.
    You are saying that there is actually epoxy in the discs?
    What do you think carbon fibre is?

    It's carbon weave and epoxy, thats essentially carbon fibre

    I'm assuming the discs have to be made in a similar fashion

    I have 2 sets of the kettle rotors and I thought they were great, until I went back to metal rotors. Absolutely no comparison


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  25. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by -jes View Post
    If you can remember back to the 90s and rim brakes, I am sure mavic used to coat the rims brake surface with something hard wearing (ceramic material?)

    From some previous experience there is technology out there to high energy deposition coat a range of materials onto a base object, does anyone know if this was what Kettle were doing to their rotors as a post production process?
    You guys are stabbing the beast in the dark with your eyes closed and your hands tied behind your backs. If you do some research you will find out what Carbon brakes are all about. Google is your friend. While you are at it, try 'carbon ceramic', 'carbon/sic' and anything else related.

  26. #726
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    Quote Originally Posted by -jes View Post
    If you can remember back to the 90s and rim brakes, I am sure mavic used to coat the rims brake surface with something hard wearing (ceramic material?)

    From some previous experience there is technology out there to high energy deposition coat a range of materials onto a base object, does anyone know if this was what Kettle were doing to their rotors as a post production process?
    Completely different idea and I have the spinergy ceramic coated rims. What can I say I like oddball bike parts. They smell funny when you brake really hard.


    Took mine out of the box for a show and tell.



    Good luck trying to true those.

  27. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post

    Took mine out of the box for a show and tell.


    Good luck trying to true those.
    Yikes ...

    And I'm following a recommendation to sit tight and wait for a bit long (quite a bit longer ....) before I consider.

    The std steel rotors and good pads work a treat.

  28. #728
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    Zelvy Carbon in Australia, are or are about to release a carbon rotor as well, with a carbon spider with an alloy braking surface. Claiming 50g for a 160mm, who knows this might be another solution to standing out from the crowd, with brakes that may or may not work?

    https://www.zelvycarbon.com/products...nt=23676372545

  29. #729
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    Very interesting.

    The photo on that page (and the only one I can find) shows the alloy braking surface as black, which is cool, but I wonder if that's an accurate depiction?

  30. #730
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    When they say alloy they don't specify what alloy it is. Probably it's aluminum alloy, but could be steel, or titanium alloy...
    If it's aluminum alloy I can envision serious crashes on the near feature.

  31. #731
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    When they say alloy they don't specify what alloy it is. .....
    From the blurb, it says that it's ' stealth ceramic coated alloy' (their italics) and that it has a life of over 10,000 braking cycles when used with their pads.

    I'm gonna find out some more

    And it's even better that they are an Aussie company !!!

  32. #732
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    I'm trying to envision what they mean by a "braking cycle". One full rotation of the rotor while under pad force?

    How many cycles would one typically encounter on a 1 hour ride of mixed terrain? I have no idea, but suspect 10K might add up faster than we think.

  33. #733
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    Probably. a 'cycle' would probably be a solid braking effort taht lasts 10+ seconds with a decent decceleration.

    How to quantify that, I dunno.

    It's interesting that they are also rated for AM/Enduro, and not Downhill, and are also weight limited.

    I'm a roadie, so no thoughts of DH, but also do some decent braking on the road.

    Got a chat going, and they'll be available in the new year, and have plenty of pad options. Pricing has not yet been fully set, so it's still a waiting game.

    Despite all the negative press re the SiC/carbon rotors, I'd be more likely to give the Zelby ones a go.

    Standing by to standby.

  34. #734
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    Well I am very worried about the Alpha rotors right now . My testing was only done within a few miles on a lightweight trail bike (not my 4.8kg mtb) . These guys are really hammering down on the rotors with the large fat bikes and heavy trail riding . I'm not sure the rotors can hold up to that amount of torque .

    I am slightly pissed because all the testing I have done (and I am not a big company with lots of money to throw at R&D) on the parts I have made all passed . The rotors were the last thing on my mind to think they would fail .

    I am busy looking at this forum as more guys on here are going to be testing them in the next few days :

    Discos de freno de carbono ALPHA RS (cuidado con ellos) | ForoMTB.com

    Oh and I love bacon . Not sure about ceramic bacon though although would go down the gullet quite easily !!!

  35. #735
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    I looked at your photos. There is something definitely wrong with those rotors are they C/Sic or just CF?

    BTW - I tested the Kettle ones, they didn't stop very well, but they stood up to some of the steepest nastiest riding and breaking.

    I would hesitate to use anything for MTBR that can fracture in a crash though, can you imagine being stranded with a long outback downhill ahead just to save a few grams?


    Quote Originally Posted by karimian5 View Post
    Well I am very worried about the Alpha rotors right now . My testing was only done within a few miles on a lightweight trail bike (not my 4.8kg mtb) . These guys are really hammering down on the rotors with the large fat bikes and heavy trail riding . I'm not sure the rotors can hold up to that amount of torque .

    I am slightly pissed because all the testing I have done (and I am not a big company with lots of money to throw at R&D) on the parts I have made all passed . The rotors were the last thing on my mind to think they would fail .

    I am busy looking at this forum as more guys on here are going to be testing them in the next few days :

    Discos de freno de carbono ALPHA RS (cuidado con ellos) | ForoMTB.com

    Oh and I love bacon . Not sure about ceramic bacon though although would go down the gullet quite easily !!!

  36. #736
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    Tracks, I am guessing little to no C/Sic, just CF. I had wondered how Alpha rotors were 20 grams lighter than Kettles, guess thats how they did it. Doesn't appear they have tested them on any kind of steep sustained DH trail.
    Kettles rotors were far from perfect, but at least none of their rotors shredded in two rides like these Alpha's. I have a couple of Kettle and SIC rotors that did not warp. I have 3 seasons on the Kettles and the braking surface is still like new.

  37. #737
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    Sounds like it. The kettle ones are real ceramic CF matrix. Those Alpha ones look like CF alone!

    Quote Originally Posted by xc71 View Post
    Tracks, I am guessing little to no C/Sic, just CF. I had wondered how Alpha rotors were 20 grams lighter than Kettles, guess thats how they did it. Doesn't appear they have tested them on any kind of steep sustained DH trail.
    Kettles rotors were far from perfect, but at least none of their rotors shredded in two rides like these Alpha's. I have a couple of Kettle and SIC rotors that did not warp. I have 3 seasons on the Kettles and the braking surface is still like new.

  38. #738
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    The alpha rotors are nor available anymore on their website, I guess all the noise about failures (some of them catastrophic) and the possibility of lawsuits in Spain had something to do with it.

  39. #739
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS View Post
    Carbon weave seems fishy to me.
    Exactly. Carbon rotors on cars are made with a different process, not the same thing. Just like a diamond is a different form of carbon, so are these, when compared to real carbon disc rotors (see wiki or tech sites for information on how they are made). Carbon fiber disc rotors≠carbon rotors.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  40. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by TracksFromHell View Post
    I looked at your photos. There is something definitely wrong with those rotors are they C/Sic or just CF?

    BTW - I tested the Kettle ones, they didn't stop very well, but they stood up to some of the steepest nastiest riding and breaking.

    I would hesitate to use anything for MTBR that can fracture in a crash though, can you imagine being stranded with a long outback downhill ahead just to save a few grams?
    I have both the Kettle Cycles rotors and the Alphas and the Kettle Cycles are definitely thicker and stronger . AS you have experienced with the KC rotors they don't stop very well . I have a 180 on my trail bike and I am hard on the levers to slow the bike down .

    I had good communication with Eduardo (owner of Alpha) and he assured me the rotors were ceramic coated . When you look at them they don't look like it . The testing I had done was in my local park and it was on the trail bike . The rotors haven't broken yet but I was doing light trails . Honestly I think they marketed them wrong, They should have been advertised purely for the road market .

    Anyways since then I put my Scrub Raceday rotors back on . 97 grams for 160mm and 140mm and they also look the bees knees .

  41. #741
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Exactly. Carbon rotors on cars are made with a different process, not the same thing. Just like a diamond is a different form of carbon, so are these, when compared to real carbon disc rotors (see wiki or tech sites for information on how they are made). Carbon fiber disc rotors≠carbon rotors.
    Carbon rotors on motor vehicles are a composite . These unfortunately are not but I was assured with the 'ceramic coating' they would hold up .

    Mine are now going to be used as coasters .

  42. #742
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    The Kettle Cycles rotors (as bad as they are) are not ceramic coated, they are the real C/Sic 100% throughout.

    Ceramic Coated CF is a bad (almost ludicrous) idea.

    What a bunch of bozos.

    Plain steel rotors work great too!

    Quote Originally Posted by karimian5 View Post
    I have both the Kettle Cycles rotors and the Alphas and the Kettle Cycles are definitely thicker and stronger . AS you have experienced with the KC rotors they don't stop very well . I have a 180 on my trail bike and I am hard on the levers to slow the bike down .

    I had good communication with Eduardo (owner of Alpha) and he assured me the rotors were ceramic coated . When you look at them they don't look like it . The testing I had done was in my local park and it was on the trail bike . The rotors haven't broken yet but I was doing light trails . Honestly I think they marketed them wrong, They should have been advertised purely for the road market .

    Anyways since then I put my Scrub Raceday rotors back on . 97 grams for 160mm and 140mm and they also look the bees knees .

  43. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by TracksFromHell View Post
    The Kettle Cycles rotors (as bad as they are) are not ceramic coated, they are the real C/Sic 100% throughout.

    Ceramic Coated CF is a bad (almost ludicrous) idea.

    What a bunch of bozos.

    Plain steel rotors work great too!
    Being a WW I opted for the lightest on the market and unfortunately my desires got the better of me . The lightest that actually do work and are very strong are the Scrubs and I have no idea why they shut down . Maybe the material they were using was hard to get or production was too expensive . I really hope they start up again .

  44. #744
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    Quote Originally Posted by doccoraje View Post
    The alpha rotors are nor available anymore on their website, I guess all the noise about failures (some of them catastrophic) and the possibility of lawsuits in Spain had something to do with it.
    They're still available but at a reduced price .

  45. #745
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    If kettle's customer service didn't suck, if they had a slightly thicker material that was more crack and crash resistant, pads that worked well and didn't wear out so fast, then they would have a great result.

    It's not so much the weight that attracts to C/Sic as the ability to not lock-up at threshold.
    Bt locking up is fun and ABS is for commuters not enthusiasts.

    The Kettle rotor would have worked well if it was 1mm thicker, came with a matched caliper, was true and not warped from the factory.

    It's a good concept if done right and gives people a choice of performance characteristics that might appeal to some.

    Until then, there is always rim brakes

    The obstacles to overcome are too many and it would cost waaay too much to prototype a real C/Sic system that works like it should.

    In 10 years those 3D printed Ti bikes will come with C/Sic rotors and matched pads/calipers.

    Until then there is always rim brakes and BACON.
    MMMMM Do I smell bacon!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by karimian5 View Post
    Being a WW I opted for the lightest on the market and unfortunately my desires got the better of me . The lightest that actually do work and are very strong are the Scrubs and I have no idea why they shut down . Maybe the material they were using was hard to get or production was too expensive . I really hope they start up again .

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    Quote Originally Posted by TracksFromHell View Post
    If kettle's customer service didn't suck, if they had a slightly thicker material that was more crack and crash resistant, pads that worked well and didn't wear out so fast, then they would have a great result.

    ...

    The Kettle rotor would have worked well if it was 1mm thicker, came with a matched caliper, was true and not warped from the factory.

    ...

    Until then there is always rim brakes and BACON.
    MMMMM Do I smell bacon!!!
    Indeed, except for those 4, 5, 6, or 7 things (depending on how you count them), Kettle had a good thing going. In all seriousness, I think you have a fair point in that their core idea, however poorly implemented, seemed sound - at least compared to Alpha.

    BTW, please remember that this is a deadly serious topic, and we must not joke, nor talk about bacon.

  47. #747
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    Quote Originally Posted by phlegm View Post
    Indeed, except for those 4, 5, 6, or 7 things (depending on how you count them), Kettle had a good thing going. In all seriousness, I think you have a fair point in that their core idea, however poorly implemented, seemed sound - at least compared to Alpha.

    BTW, please remember that this is a deadly serious topic, and we must not joke, nor talk about bacon.
    It's a shame but I don't think carbon rotors will be making a comeback in the MTB scene. The problem is that carbon ceramics work best with carbon ceramic pads and this is indeed what they have in Moto GP and F1 . They need to be well heated in order to get the best result and you just don't get that kind of heat in cycling . The other issue is that with MTBs you are off road and so you are more likely to chip the rotor or even crack it . Moto GP and F1 you are on a smooth track (and F1 the rotors are protected by the wheels) . I know lots of companies have made their own versions but they have showcased them as prototypes only . I really hope manufacturers will continue to research and develop a a more robust and light carbon rotor that will work with MTBs . Until then we just have to stick with heavy steel and enjoy the lovely salted fried pork products .

  48. #748
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    Quote Originally Posted by karimian5 View Post
    The problem is that carbon ceramics work best with carbon ceramic pads and this is indeed what they have in Moto GP and F1.
    Is there reason to believe that the heat requirement stems from something inherent in carbon ceramic? I'd expect motorsport to use products tailored to perform best when hot, but that doesn't necessarily mean that carbon ceramic itself is only suitable for high temperatures. It certainly means that motorsport formulations only work well at high heat, but that might be all that it means.

    That said, the R&D required to develop a low-temperature version might still cost more than the bike market can bear.

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    I can imagine a rotor, say max 120 mm diameter, almost twice as thick as standard, with a specialized caliper and pads. The rotor small size would minimize crash damage potential and the caliper would maximize breaking force even on a small rotor. A smaller diameter rotor would have less warp and deflection when out-of-true and offset the thicker design still with weight savings. The potential is there only if we throw out the old idea that a large spinning disc is what is needed to stop a bike.

    Sent from a stolen burner phone in a dark secluded location.

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    All I can say is that I'm glad I didn't succumb.

    Oh, and @ karimian5 - these would be useless for the road as well, as they would get some hard braking as well (that's where I was intending to use them).

    Staying with steel. Again....

  51. #751
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    rOCktoberfest 2015 pt I here
    rOCktoberfest 2015 pt II here

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    I'm waiting to see what ends up becoming of the Zelvy rotors that were mentioned a few posts back.

    Seems these MAY be another alternative to those wanting to try something different. The fact they come with pads is a 1st point !!!

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    Any more updates ?

    I love a good disaster story, especiallly when I'm an observer !! (Almost succumbed though ....)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
    Any more updates ?

    I love a good disaster story, especiallly when I'm an observer !! (Almost succumbed though ....)
    I'm testing mine at the moment with cork pads . Using cork sounds crazy but I build parts so I test anything . So far the discs haven't delaminated but a shiny film has developed on the surface . Braking performance could be more but it is still far stronger than rim brakes .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seb K View Post
    I'm testing mine at the moment with cork pads . Using cork sounds crazy but I build parts so I test anything . So far the discs haven't delaminated but a shiny film has developed on the surface . Braking performance could be more but it is still far stronger than rim brakes .
    Which rotors and which 'cork pads' are you using ?

    I note that the Alpha "rotors" (or are they just sheets of CF that look pretty.... ) are on sale at the moment at almost 1/2 price and they are now also selling CF frames and forks that look like they are sourced directly from open mould suppliers from the far East.

  56. #756
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    Finally found brake pads that make the Kettle rotors the best rear discs I have ever used.
    Anybody having 2 180mm rotors that are flat (FLAT) for sale at a disgustingly low price I am interested.
    errare humanum est

  57. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by las-palmas View Post
    Finally found brake pads that make the Kettle rotors the best rear discs I have ever used.
    Anybody having 2 180mm rotors that are flat (FLAT) for sale at a disgustingly low price I am interested.
    LOL I have 2 sets of XTR Kettle pads (the good ones that work) and 2 180mm rotors that are not flat. not even close or they would be on my XC bike.
    Agreed best rear rotor I ever used too.

  58. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by las-palmas View Post
    Finally found brake pads that make the Kettle rotors the best rear discs I have ever used.
    .....
    And they are ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
    And they are ?
    Metallic sintered pads from [url=http://www.truckerco.com/]
    errare humanum est

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    Whilst I missed the carbon brake trials and tribulations of the various incarnations of Kettle rotors, and wisely missed the Alpa rotors boat (phew), I'm still interested in seeing them work and using them.

    So given the comments that they are workable for the rear, does that then by extension mean they are still crap for the front ?

  61. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
    Whilst I missed the carbon brake trials and tribulations of the various incarnations of Kettle rotors, and wisely missed the Alpa rotors boat (phew), I'm still interested in seeing them work and using them.

    So given the comments that they are workable for the rear, does that then by extension mean they are still crap for the front ?
    If you ride in mountains I would say yes.
    errare humanum est

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    Quote Originally Posted by las-palmas View Post
    Finally found brake pads that make the Kettle rotors the best rear discs I have ever used.
    Anybody having 2 180mm rotors that are flat (FLAT) for sale at a disgustingly low price I am interested.
    I thought that they all came pre-warped? No such thing as a flat Kettle rotor!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  63. #763
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    They worked great on the front with the sicc pads. On the rear shimano resin pads give the perfect bit. Not enough power for the front without the sicc pads. I really liked mine, but they warped and I reluctantly took them off. They have continued to warp sitting in the box. I tried to flatten them with no luck.

  64. #764
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    Stop posting in this thread. It only brings back the pain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phlegm View Post
    Stop posting in this thread. It only brings back the pain.
    Lol..........


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  66. #766
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    Quote Originally Posted by phlegm View Post
    Stop posting in this thread. It only brings back the pain.
    I see you are into the Blue Whale game... Let me tell you beforehand​, it will not end well...
    Last edited by Aglo; 05-03-2017 at 04:04 AM.

  67. #767
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    Quote Originally Posted by phlegm View Post
    Stop posting in this thread. It only brings back the pain.
    do you not think it is better to tell the good people who bought the rotors that they can be used for other things than hanging on the wall?
    errare humanum est

  68. #768
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    Quote Originally Posted by las-palmas View Post
    do you not think it is better to tell the good people who bought the rotors that they can be used for other things than hanging on the wall?
    Of course - I'm pleased that one customer found a use for them. I would sell you mine, but they aren't flat.

  69. #769
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    Quote Originally Posted by phlegm View Post
    Of course - I'm pleased that one customer found a use for them. I would sell you mine, but they aren't flat.
    maybe I am not the only one who find the rotors great for rear wheels:
    alexbn921 - see a few posts above
    seems to mean the same, so maybe there are more of us.
    errare humanum est

  70. #770
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    Quote Originally Posted by las-palmas View Post
    maybe I am not the only one who find the rotors great for rear wheels:
    alexbn921 - see a few posts above
    seems to mean the same, so maybe there are more of us.
    If you are getting some use from these, excellent. Rear-wheel-only is quite a limitation though, and somewhat telling of their performance.

    I'm unsure why you are so very defensive of Kettle, and so against the odd joke in this thread. Many of us paid a lot of money for their middling performance (or worse), and their terrible customer support. As such, we have the right to joke about them if we wish.

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    So, it seems that they have ditched the carbon substrate (for reasons not provided).

    SiC Rotors are back, but the SiC is now applied to a Ti rotor (grades and details not listed) with only the weight and thickness shown.

    Some of you may remember the Kettle Carbon/SiCCC disc rotors that appeared some time ago, and despite some improvements, never quite got it right. They disappeared, Phoenixed again, only to re-disappear. Then a Spanish mob has had a go, Alpha, but the results and feedback has been somewhat odd.

    I've always been interested from an engineering point of view, but never quite ready to part with the cash, especially when there is limited info.

    Phoenix time again.

    They are now back, but instead of the carbon substrate with SiC (Silicon Carbide) impregnated, they have gone with a Ti disc with a SiC coating.

    Bugger all details, of the base material spes, and no details of what pads are to be used or anything else. :?

    Also only in 6 bolt, but now using Ti as the base, should be able to be made in Centerlock (which would be nice)




    Have fired off an enquiry re the suggested pad material compatibility, but waiting to hear back, although not optimistic.

    Retail is Euro 75 ea and available in 140, 160, 180 and 203mm.

    Tempted, but not enough yet. There was a discount code to take Euro15 off each rotor for a limited time, but still ends up being A$200 for a 160/140 pair. :thinking:

    A bit of google fooing shows that Ti-SiC us more commonly used in compressor blades and other advanced structures, although not sure what that really means.

    The quoted temp resistance (1,650 degrees Celcius) is a furphy, as no pad material operates in that range, but curious whether what grade the Ti base is, and how resistant to warping ?
    Eventual reply from them (took 3 goes) indicate that the best pads are Swisstop Exotherm (which have been recalled) !!!

    Oh dear ...

    Who is willing to gamble ....

  72. #772
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    Carver has had Ti rotors for several years, and continue to sell them. I have a pair myself, however I could never get them to stop squealing, despite several pad experiments. Too bad as the stopping power was fine, weight was great. Price is $100:
    http://carverbikes.com/parts/brakes/...m-disc-rotors/

    As for the new, new, Ti-SiC, if the coating somehow mitigates the Ti howl, then they could have a winner. However, as with any coating, it may have a life expectancy.

  73. #773
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    Nope. So many things wrong with these rotors. Sic material needs sic pads. The expansion rate of the 2 materials will destroy the coating.
    A fool and his money.

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    I have seen that they have published about a brand new rotor of carbon and steel the guys of Sic!

    https://sicrotors.com/product/sic-hybrid-rotor-160mm/

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    And despite them saying that it requires Swissstop pads, the fact they state that it works with all pads has fully set my alarm to red alert.

    An update from the guys at Zelvy (info further up in thread) have them still coming at Xmas, but the big difference is they supply pads with the rotors.

  76. #776
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    A fool and their money is easily parted

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    Quote Originally Posted by TracksFromHell View Post
    A fool and their money is easily parted
    Not a fool.

    Yet

  78. #778
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
    Some of you may remember the Kettle Carbon/SiCCC disc rotors that appeared some time ago, and despite some improvements, never quite got it right. They disappeared, Phoenixed again, only to re-disappear.
    Bwahahahahahaha!

    Are people still talking about this?

    Five years ago when the thread was started, I expressed my skepticism about the wannabeapro at Kettle Cycles. I also leaked the real facts - the guy behind it was operating out of his apartment in Indiana, how he had no product, and how all the endorsements on his web page were from non-existent bike stores and teams. For revealing the truth, I was virtually pilloried as a heretic by a group of MTBR fanboys. Those guys seem to have faded into oblivion. Or maybe they're out shredding the trails on there Kettle Rotors.

    I don't know anything about these guys from SIC. I tried to look them up, but couldn't find a physical location or a phone number. Nor could I find the existence of their parent company, "Harder Industries." All that aside, I only ask, "WHY?" Shimano, Hope, Sram, Magura... they all offer off-the-shelf braking solutions that are wonderful. Why bother with a product that doesn't seem to exist at any location other than a single web site?

  79. #779
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    We'll see what happens!

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post
    Bwahahahahahaha!

    Are people still talking about this?

    Five years ago when the thread was started, I expressed my skepticism about the wannabeapro at Kettle Cycles. I also leaked the real facts - the guy behind it was operating out of his apartment in Indiana, how he had no product, and how all the endorsements on his web page were from non-existent bike stores and teams. For revealing the truth, I was virtually pilloried as a heretic by a group of MTBR fanboys. Those guys seem to have faded into oblivion. Or maybe they're out shredding the trails on there Kettle Rotors.

    I don't know anything about these guys from SIC. I tried to look them up, but couldn't find a physical location or a phone number. Nor could I find the existence of their parent company, "Harder Industries." All that aside, I only ask, "WHY?" Shimano, Hope, Sram, Magura... they all offer off-the-shelf braking solutions that are wonderful. Why bother with a product that doesn't seem to exist at any location other than a single web site?

    Maybe if you read who they are ... you'll see that it's not the same people who started this.

    I want to see what they are going to do ... because it is clear that if they make a product that interests me I will buy it.

  80. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daas View Post
    Maybe if you read who they are ... you'll see that it's not the same people who started this.
    Well it certainly would be cool if they create some bar-raising brake components. Be sure to let us know how the SIC rotors perform for you.

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    Do not hesitate! as soon as I do with a hybrid carbon steel and carbon discs similar to Carbon Ti components (Italy), i will comment.

  82. #782
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    Having used the Sicc rotors, I wish that a major manufacturer would invest in the technology. They where very very good paired with the sicc pads. Far and above the best rear rotor I have or will ever use. They got over there heads fast and didn't have the resources or manufacturing.

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    Totally agree, it's about companies getting involved and listening to the riders.Cheers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post
    Bwahahahahahaha!

    Are people still talking about this?

    ...

    I don't know anything about these guys from SIC. I tried to look them up, but couldn't find a physical location or a phone number. Nor could I find the existence of their parent company, "Harder Industries." ...
    Well, I like new things, as long as they make sense and work, hence been following this technology, but not yet parted with any cash.

    Whilst they respond to emails, they are next to useless re info and actual conversation which is a red flag to me.

    And w.r.t. established players, at some point ya gotta start somewhere.

    It wasn't that long ago that carbon rotors weren't on F1 cars, but now they are on road cars and readily available after-market.

    Their time (Carbon and/or SiC) will come, but it needs the right backing and company.

    And the ability to communicate and have a decent site., The SiC site is utter crap.

    Standing by to standby

  85. #785
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Having used the Sicc rotors, I wish that a major manufacturer would invest in the technology. They where very very good paired with the sicc pads. Far and above the best rear rotor I have or will ever use. They got over there heads fast and didn't have the resources or manufacturing.
    I have no idea what above best rear rotor mean, for me the rotors are no good on front wheel.
    Wrote to the new company they answered that they are making steel rotors with carbon centre, so nothing new or interesting. No such thing as the Brembo rotors Carbon-ceramic discs | Brembo - Official Website (interested search the Porsche community there you can find a lot of info about brake systems) so what SIC is doing is trying is to make money of "nothing new"
    Last edited by las-palmas; 09-07-2017 at 04:29 PM.
    errare humanum est

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    They where total crap on the front without the Sicc pads. They had no power. With the Sicc pads they had equal or better power. On the rear they where the best because they keep a linear friction level from locked up to rotating. No steel rotor does that. You had an unmatched ability to threshold brake and keep the rear wheel from locking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    They where total crap on the front without the Sicc pads. They had no power. With the Sicc pads they had equal or better power. On the rear they where the best because they keep a linear friction level from locked up to rotating. No steel rotor does that. You had an unmatched ability to threshold brake and keep the rear wheel from locking.

    Absolutely right. I also found out that more than 3 years ago. Have Kettle rotors on rear wheel on 2 bikes. Seem to last forever with little or no wear on the pads.
    errare humanum est

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    They where total crap on the front without the Sicc pads. They had no power. With the Sicc pads they had equal or better power. On the rear they where the best because they keep a linear friction level from locked up to rotating. No steel rotor does that. You had an unmatched ability to threshold brake and keep the rear wheel from locking.
    > With the Sicc pads they had equal or better power.

    Well here now. that's not what I found. They were weak sauce in all the iterations I tried. That's not to say they can't be made to work.

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    bacon?

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    Quote Originally Posted by phlegm View Post
    bacon?
    mmmm bacon

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    Quote Originally Posted by TracksFromHell View Post
    mmmm bacon
    Yes please

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