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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehigh View Post
    I took out the eye roll emoticon from your statement and now it reads much more truthfully. Sorry man, but your sarcasm isn't carrying you too far here.
    Thanks, Fanboy, I don't need the support of you or your cadre of little friends.

    I shined the light of truth on this "Phantom Rotor" manufacturer. He runs his "business" out of his apartment, none of his claimed "authorized dealers" actually exist, he has no product to sell, and he's looking for donations.

    Are you really his BFF, or are you just talk? How much money have YOU donated to his cause?

    There is one cold, hard fact of which you seem to be unaware. There are two kinds of people in this world: the talkers and the doers. The "Big Talkers" are a dime a dozen, and they're all just one year away or one more cash infusion away from "making the bigtime."

    To show that I'm not a complete cold-hearted cynic, I will humbly retract my comments as soon as he starts shipping a real product, let's say just a hundred units that last on consumers' bikes for more than 6 months or 600 miles. Is that a fair test? To be honest, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting. But if the day ever comes when you write a review for the "Phantom Rotors," I'll be one of the first ones to read it. Until that day, be well.

  2. #52
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    Man lighten up. All you're doing is leaving scathing remarks, and for what? It's hard to get business like this rolling. Go for it and shoot him down. I understand that you wouldn't invest in it. Neither have I. But how do you expect industry innovation when there is such tight competition?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by distro View Post
    These aren't carbon ceramic, that is a totally different beast. Interesting concept these brakes are, wonder how well they compare to their metal counterparts.
    They are exactly carbon ceramic

    And no, I'm not guessing here, that's knowledge.


    Magura

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post

    And no, I'm not guessing here, that's knowledge.


    Magura
    would you kindly send some Fedex overnight i could use it..

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by mazspeed View Post
    You have a set? Pictures.
    I have a carbon ceramic brake yes, but it is one I made like a year ago.

    Look further back in this thread for a couple of pics. There is a thread about it somewhere as well, with more pics and some thermographic images.

    Mine is though a bit different, and the cost was a wee bit high for most peoples taste. As I recall, the material cost of the rotor and a set of pads, was like 3,000$.

    Magura

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarBoom View Post
    This is very interesting
    Even if they werent so light just the heat dissipation characteristics would be worth it
    Back when I made mine, I didn't do much for the sake of saving weight, as my aim was to get more power, and to eliminate fading.

    As I recall, mine ended up around 95g for a 203mm rotor.


    Magura

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehigh View Post
    Hey man, when I was in Santa Cruz I met two Danish girls from Aarhus who were hitch-hiking through the state. When they looked at my bikes in the back, she said, "oooh you're must be into downhill" with a cute smile and wide eyes and all her Danish accent.

    What are the odds?

    (so you're saying when I try your brakes you won't have fine Danish women serving our end of the day dinner?)
    LOL! Well, the odds are not good for that to happen twice

    Fine Danish women are few and far between, They do exist though. I have one, and I know another guy who also has one

    Regarding RustyIron, just ignore him. He has no clue what he is talking about, and obviously forgot to take his pills.

    Magura

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    would you kindly send some Fedex overnight i could use it..
    Naah, I just made one for myself for fun.

    If the Illinois company get this off the ground, they will also bring this into a completely different price bracket.
    They expect to sell rotors for like 100$, mine cost like 3000$ for the material alone (rotor and pads).


    Magura

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post


    Magura
    I was referring to the knowledge.....2nd thought

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    I was referring to the knowledge.....2nd thought
    LOL!

    I'm still a bit slow, only on my second cup of coffee this morning.


    Magura

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    LOL!

    I'm still a bit slow, only on my second cup of coffee this morning.


    Magura
    just home from work and bedtime for me...zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by drbelleville View Post
    Just to chime in, I am not sure what happened to them, yet Fibre-Lyte of the UK offered carbon brake discs around 2008. Maybe some of our UK friends might be able to shed some light on these. I do not know if they were for show or not. What I do know is that I do not see them on their catalog anymore.
    As I recall, they never got it off the ground.

    Back then I believe the reason was the cost, as they tried to do it the same way as Honeywell (and yours truly did).

    As I recall, it worked well though.


    Magura

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    They are exactly carbon ceramic

    And no, I'm not guessing here, that's knowledge.


    Magura
    They use carbon, and ceramic materials.. But are not made the same as carbon ceramic road discs. Those are made with loose not wolven carbon fiber form what I have seen. Just was trying to point out this is a different process..
    Last edited by distro; 11-15-2012 at 09:53 PM.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by distro View Post
    They use carbon, and ceramic materials.. But are not made the same as carbon ceramic road discs. Those are made with loose not wolven carbon fiber form what I have seen. Just was trying to point out this is a different process..
    You can have carbon ceramic (CSIC) in just about any form.

    I have so far seen random fiber, UD, something in between the two, Textreme style , and so forth.
    In my experience, the big difference is rather the SIC component, than the layup schedule of the carbon.


    Magura

  15. #65
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    Backed one set of this Siccc rotor,hope it would be nicer than my hope floating disc and twice as light.

    Cant wait to get it now,but still have to wait until 2013 JAN.

  16. #66
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    Magura
    You seem to have had a few chats with the people working on this. Any chance you might get them to chime in here? I for one think this idea has a lot of merit and would be interested in hearing about compatibility across braking platforms, and their strategy for pads.
    thanks,
    AaRon

    BTW -to the grouchy guy: starting a business in your apartment or garage and driving it to the revenue generating stage is not a negative thing, it is hugely positive and the longer you stay small and lean, the better. Think abouth the google garage - a rented garage (not even the house) in Menlo Park.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaGro View Post

    BTW -to the grouchy guy: starting a business in your apartment or garage and driving it to the revenue generating stage is not a negative thing, it is hugely positive and the longer you stay small and lean, the better. Think abouth the google garage - a rented garage (not even the house) in Menlo Park.
    Not only is not a negative thing, it's how most people start businesses. The guy is obviously completly clueless, and was not worth debating. Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by jos3ph4ever View Post
    Backed one set of this Siccc rotor,hope it would be nicer than my hope floating disc and twice as light.

    Cant wait to get it now,but still have to wait until 2013 JAN.
    If they are anything near the one I made, which I am fairly sure they are, you can look forward to improvement pretty much in any aspect.

    I run mine in a Hope M4, which seems to work rather well.

    I will though move it over to try in on my Zee.


    Magura

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaGro View Post
    Magura
    You seem to have had a few chats with the people working on this. Any chance you might get them to chime in here? I for one think this idea has a lot of merit and would be interested in hearing about compatibility across braking platforms, and their strategy for pads.
    thanks,
    AaRon
    The guy I have been chatting a bit with, already reads this topic.

    To be honest, I would also think twice before joining this topic as the manufacturer.
    All the hear-say and religion this is up against, makes for a bumpy ride at best.

    Add to that all the self proclaimed experts on composite friction materials (hey they most likely saw F1 on tv).

    Just look at the thread I posted about my brake, and I don't even sell anything


    Magura

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by mazspeed View Post
    Not only is not a negative thing, it's how most people start businesses. The guy is obviously completly clueless, and was not worth debating. Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
    I'll be happy to buy something made in USA for a change. At least until it gets outsourced
    and a price drop.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    If they are anything near the one I made, which I am fairly sure they are, you can look forward to improvement pretty much in any aspect.

    I run mine in a Hope M4, which seems to work rather well.

    I will though move it over to try in on my Zee.


    Magura
    I will run mine with hope tech x2 that currently run with hope floating rotor that loosen for the rear disc after 4months use only..

    With this SiCCC material i think they will perform better than floating disc even they are made into one piece,is it Mr.Magura?

    Does ur rotor bend during long decents?

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by jos3ph4ever View Post
    I will run mine with hope tech x2 that currently run with hope floating rotor that loosen for the rear disc after 4months use only..

    With this SiCCC material i think they will perform better than floating disc even they are made into one piece,is it Mr.Magura?

    Does ur rotor bend during long decents?
    Yes they will probably perform better than a floating Hope rotor. I would sure expect so.
    Let's see. Now they have plenty of backers, so there is going to be a pretty hefty production. I look forward to see what they made of it.

    My rotor is as straight as it was when made. That's the way it will stay
    Mine will survive 400C permanently, with no ill effects.

    As I understand the process they are using, those rotors should have approx. the same properties regarding warping and oxidation.


    Magura

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    Yes they will probably perform better than a floating Hope rotor. I would sure expect so.
    Let's see. Now they have plenty of backers, so there is going to be a pretty hefty production. I look forward to see what they made of it.

    My rotor is as straight as it was when made. That's the way it will stay
    Mine will survive 400C permanently, with no ill effects.

    As I understand the process they are using, those rotors should have approx. the same properties regarding warping and oxidation.


    Magura
    Great to hear that from you.

    The project already funded,just wait the date end and they will start making them,luckily i backed earlier if not many of them already sold out.

    400c is very hot,i dont think bike brakes can create that heat to spoiled it right?

    What inpired you to make this rotor by yourself?$3000 is expensive but it is unique i know.

  24. #74
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    I backed them for a pair of two-piece rotors with color choice. I'm a casual rider so extra 10 grams won't bother me

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jos3ph4ever View Post
    Great to hear that from you.

    The project already funded,just wait the date end and they will start making them,luckily i backed earlier if not many of them already sold out.

    400c is very hot,i dont think bike brakes can create that heat to spoiled it right?

    What inpired you to make this rotor by yourself?$3000 is expensive but it is unique i know.
    It will be hard to maintain 400C on a bike, even on the front.


    The short answer: because I could

    I have made composite brakes for performance cars in the past, so it seemed natural to make one for a bike as well.
    Yes that is a fair pile of dough, but the first of something will always turn expensive.

    The composite brakes I made for cars, were like 20,000$ for a pair for the front end, so relatively speaking, 3,000$ is not too bad, especially for a single piece run.
    Keep in mind that this is raw material cost, thus not really commercially interesting.


    Magura

  26. #76
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    I'm going to back them as well shortly. I was waiting like a knucklehead for others to do it first

  27. #77
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    Well, if I had an extra $150 I would get in on it.

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  29. #79
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    I got in on this early. I think I was the 5th or 6th backer for a set of 160mm SFL's. I'm excited to see how these come out, and I'll do a full write up on them when they arrive.
    Gigantic Hawk
    gigantic-hawk.com

  30. #80
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    Great comunication from Kettle.
    I couldn't find any reference to thickness of their rotors either on their site or posts in here, so I asked them, I got response in less than an hour.
    Just in case someone had the same question, 1.9 mm I was told by Aaron.

  31. #81
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    Very interested in this, but I run Hope V2 brakes with 183mm rotors. The V2's require a slightly larger track surface for the calliper to clamp onto. The 2 piece rotor looks like it has a deeper track but they are only making them in 180mm sizes, but I imagine the extra 3mm won't make much difference.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruscle View Post
    Very interested in this, but I run Hope V2 brakes with 183mm rotors. The V2's require a slightly larger track surface for the calliper to clamp onto. The 2 piece rotor looks like it has a deeper track but they are only making them in 180mm sizes, but I imagine the extra 3mm won't make much difference.
    Not true, only issue would be the 2 piece. I have run the V2 and now the V4 and they all run the same rotors as the rest. It should work, given they work for all other normal rotors as well. Only the vented won't work.

  33. #83
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    but the carbon rotors only brake at very high temperature

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by PSICODROMO View Post
    but the carbon rotors only brake at very high temperature
    Is it really necessary?

    Do top mtb'ers have this kit? Often the answer is no

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by PSICODROMO View Post
    but the carbon rotors only brake at very high temperature
    May I recommend you do a bit of research before throwing out claims?

    The above claim is as far from the facts as possible.

    I happen to have worked with designing composite friction systems, and have even made a composite brake for my bike. My experience, and just about any substantiated fact you can find, says pretty much the opposite.

    One thing I often wonder, is why people find it a must, to claim knowledge, about things they have no idea about?

    Magura

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreet View Post
    Is it really necessary?

    Do top mtb'ers have this kit? Often the answer is no
    Top mtb'ers don't have this sort of technology yet, as so far the only person or company, I know of that have been willing to spend the amount of cash it takes, till these guys came along, has been me.


    Magura

  37. #87
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    It will be interesting if weight is reduced & benefits of stopping power & low heat - from what you posted earlier sounds a future... If the price is right for the masses, I doubt it for now... I can see DH & Enduro riders probably utilizing its stopping power. Like another topic I read it's not going to add seconds of value in a straightforward measure yet. Unless weight is significant. Interesting anyway.

    Ridley came out with new hidden integrated brakes on their top range race road cycles and thus futurism is what I enjoy.

  38. #88
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    so i guess they don't warp so no need to true? I would like to try out a 180 just because it looks so friggin cool

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreet View Post
    It will be interesting if weight is reduced & benefits of stopping power & low heat - from what you posted earlier sounds a future... If the price is right for the masses, I doubt it for now... I can see DH & Enduro riders probably utilizing its stopping power. Like another topic I read it's not going to add seconds of value in a straightforward measure yet. Unless weight is significant. Interesting anyway.

    Ridley came out with new hidden integrated brakes on their top range race road cycles and thus futurism is what I enjoy.
    I'd say 100$ is pretty much a reasonable price, at least low enough to bring it down in the range that most would be able to consider.

    The real interesting benefit, besides low weight and more power, is very low static friction.

    That sure offers a benefit you can see on the stop watch, as it allows you to brake harder, with much higher threshold for the wheel to lock up.

    As I mentioned earlier, I sure like mine, and this would be one of the real nice features, that I have gotten used to enjoy, and would be a benefit in a race situation as well.

    Magura

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by natrat View Post
    so i guess they don't warp so no need to true? I would like to try out a 180 just because it looks so friggin cool
    To true ceramics????

    That sounds like a very bad idea


    Magura

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreet View Post
    It will be interesting if weight is reduced & benefits of stopping power & low heat - from what you posted earlier sounds a future... If the price is right for the masses, I doubt it for now... I can see DH & Enduro riders probably utilizing its stopping power. Like another topic I read it's not going to add seconds of value in a straightforward measure yet. Unless weight is significant. Interesting anyway.

    Ridley came out with new hidden integrated brakes on their top range race road cycles and thus futurism is what I enjoy.
    @ $70 for the two piece it is less than buying replacement rotors for my Formulas. I think I am most interested in long term durability which is (at least in theory) one of the big advantages of this set-up. Second place for me is overheating of break rotors - rare for me as a recreational rider but it does happen. The weight change is nice, but to tell the truth I'd rather have the 2-piece than the SFL - I just think they look cool as hell. And as of yet outside of my experience is the very low stiction point of this material - there are a lot of potential benefits to this if the learning curve isn't too steep, and if the stiction point isn't so low that you can't lock-up a wheel when you want/need to..

  42. #92
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    @aAgaro

    It's a very interesting read as I just finished reading about it! 40g wow, very interesting. Affordable too. Curious to hear test trails come on MTB mags & bikeradar

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaGro View Post
    @ And as of yet outside of my experience is the very low stiction point of this material - there are a lot of potential benefits to this if the learning curve isn't too steep, and if the stiction point isn't so low that you can't lock-up a wheel when you want/need to..
    Mine has no problem locking up the wheel, if I want to, there is just much less risk of locking up the wheel, when breaking hard.
    I would expect those brakes are working more or less the same way.

    Keep in mind that you actually have more power, so the situation where I have seen the benefit, is when breaking hard, with uneven grip. Usually you'd have to brake less hard, to avoid locking up the wheel, when braking under such conditions.

    Also once you learn to control it, you will find that if the wheel stops rolling when braking across a rut or the like, the wheel will start rolling again once traction is restored.
    This takes some getting used to, as normal response to such an incident, is to ease off on the lever quite a bit, to get the wheel rolling.

    For a racer, this could very well save a significant amount of time.
    I am no racer however, but I like that it saves me a nasty situation from time to time, and brings confidence to breaking harder than usual.

    Magura

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    V2 compatibility with 2 piece rotors

    Quote Originally Posted by mazspeed View Post
    Not true, only issue would be the 2 piece. I have run the V2 and now the V4 and they all run the same rotors as the rest. It should work, given they work for all other normal rotors as well. Only the vented won't work.
    I emailed them about the compatibility with the 2 piece rotor and the V2 calliper's and Aaron said it will all fit fine and there isn't an issue. The rivet on the 2 piece does look very small and quite far into the actual structure of the rotor, so should prove not to clash with the calliper of the V2. I think I will be backing them for a pair of 180mm 2 piece rotors.

    Quite excited now and will be saving over 200g in weight. Main thing is gaining more modulation and power (Like I need that with Hope V2's!!)

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    Mr.Magura, Your like the Bob Page of brakes, I LOVE your modded brakes and other stuff, DIY all the way indeed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasmachineman NL View Post
    Mr.Magura, Your like the Bob Page of brakes, I LOVE your modded brakes and other stuff, DIY all the way indeed!
    Thanks a lot.

    Now could you please enlighten me, Who is Bob Page?

    A Google search revealed the choice between a science fiction character, a sports caster, and a blues musician.


    Magura

  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    Thanks a lot.

    Now could you please enlighten me, Who is Bob Page?

    A Google search revealed the choice between a science fiction character, a sports caster, and a blues musician.


    Magura
    Bob Page is the leader of Majestic 12 in Deus Ex, He was also a major power behind nano-tech/augmentation in that game, Read the DX Wiki page about him: Bob Page - Deus Ex Wiki

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasmachineman NL View Post
    Bob Page is the leader of Majestic 12 in Deus Ex, He was also a major power behind nano-tech/augmentation in that game, Read the DX Wiki page about him: Bob Page - Deus Ex Wiki
    So now I just have to take over the world, using brakes as a step stone....

    Intriguing thought

    Magura

  49. #99
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    I don't have the moolah to get these... though I'm curious how well these SiCCC rotors will perform on a fully loaded MTB tandem.

  50. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanleyJ View Post
    I don't have the moolah to get these... though I'm curious how well these SiCCC rotors will perform on a fully loaded MTB tandem.
    Just lay off the afterburners : D





    Ps, I need jet brakes on my bicycle too
    ...

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