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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruscle View Post
    I emailed them about the compatibility with the 2 piece rotor and the V2 calliper's and Aaron said it will all fit fine and there isn't an issue. The rivet on the 2 piece does look very small and quite far into the actual structure of the rotor, so should prove not to clash with the calliper of the V2. I think I will be backing them for a pair of 180mm 2 piece rotors.

    Quite excited now and will be saving over 200g in weight. Main thing is gaining more modulation and power (Like I need that with Hope V2's!!)
    Thanks for that. That was one of my sticking points. Will be talking to them this week about an order.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    Ps, I need jet brakes on my bicycle too
    Well, that's a bit more complicated, as those in question here, are not quite the same.


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  3. #103
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    Re:

    [QUOTE=gotfish8;9860433]check these out rotors out, I wonder if they reduce the "turkey worbble" noise? doesnt look like they have hit the market yet.



    Wonder what the pads will be made from?

  4. #104
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    [QUOTE=shehateme;9920141]
    Quote Originally Posted by gotfish8 View Post
    check these out rotors out, I wonder if they reduce the "turkey worbble" noise? doesnt look like they have hit the market yet.



    Wonder what the pads will be made from?
    Try reading more than the first !!

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    Well, that's a bit more complicated, as those in question here, are not quite the same.


    Magura
    I figured these were from something really neat like jet, of maybe space shuttle.. Now that I actually read the thread, these mounted to a single crown fork?
    ...

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    I figured these were from something really neat like jet, of maybe space shuttle.. Now that I actually read the thread, these mounted to a single crown fork?
    Why not?

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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    Why not?

    Magura
    More power and modulation always a nice upgrade, just wondering what fork you have there
    ...

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    More power and modulation always a nice upgrade, just wondering what fork you have there
    It's a modded Domain 318.

    I didn't like the Motion Control much, so built up a speed sensitive system for it.


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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    It's a modded Domain 318.

    I didn't like the Motion Control much, so built up a speed sensitive system for it.


    Magura
    I finally got lucky with rock solid csu, been through 3-4 uppers this year so been holding off the harder riding/braking and that is no fun!
    ...

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    I finally got lucky with rock solid csu, been through 3-4 uppers this year so been holding off the harder riding/braking and that is no fun!
    Try a Domain then. The Motion Control stinks, but the fork is rock solid, at a small weight penalty though.

    I've treated mine pretty bad (hefty carbon brake tests), and to be honest, I worry more about snapping a head tube than the Domain.

    On the plus side as well, is that it's super smooth, with a minimum of static friction.


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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    I've treated mine pretty bad (hefty carbon brake tests), and to be honest, I worry more about snapping a head tube than the Domain.

    On the plus side as well, is that it's super smooth, with a minimum of static friction.


    Magura
    That is good to know...I was hoping it was a Vengeance coil getting the brake test beating (been thinking about 27.5 clearance : )
    ...

  12. #112
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    Have the Kettle SiCCC rotors been tested by any of the magazine guys, or the independent test guys that chime in on these forums yet?
    I think the concept is overdue for introduction to the market, but I thought it would be a lot more expensive. I don't really see how they can be doing these for under a $100. If they are successful, I hope they or somebody else following up on their technology for making inexpensive carbon ceramic rotors applies this to some aftermarket brakes for sports cars. If it can transfer over, they could end up being price competitive with aftermarket upgraded iron disc systems
    .
    Mr.Magura: Do you know where they found a way to make them that cheap, and do you know if it may be practical for larger applications.

  13. #113
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    Why does everyone keep saying these composite rotors dissipate heat better.

    Custom Carbon Ceramic Disc Rotors From Kettle Cycles - COOL! | 29er.. »Cafe

    I thought the opposite was true: They are better able to manage the heat, but not by dissipating it, but by resisting heat buildup, and performing well at any temperature up until they are glowing hot.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by autodoctor911 View Post
    Why does everyone keep saying these composite rotors dissipate heat better.

    Custom Carbon Ceramic Disc Rotors From Kettle Cycles - COOL! | 29er.. »Cafe

    I thought the opposite was true: They are better able to manage the heat, but not by dissipating it, but by resisting heat buildup, and performing well at any temperature up until they are glowing hot.
    Because they do dissipate more heat as temperature increases.
    The same holds true for steel rotors, but they just start fading at some point.

    Look up heat dissipation. It is not a linear function of temperature, but a rather steep curve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by autodoctor911 View Post
    Have the Kettle SiCCC rotors been tested by any of the magazine guys, or the independent test guys that chime in on these forums yet?
    I think the concept is overdue for introduction to the market, but I thought it would be a lot more expensive. I don't really see how they can be doing these for under a $100. If they are successful, I hope they or somebody else following up on their technology for making inexpensive carbon ceramic rotors applies this to some aftermarket brakes for sports cars. If it can transfer over, they could end up being price competitive with aftermarket upgraded iron disc systems
    .
    Mr.Magura: Do you know where they found a way to make them that cheap, and do you know if it may be practical for larger applications.
    They claim to have one with my name on it, but let's see.


    Keep in mind how little material there is in a 2mm rotor, compared to that of cars.
    That's where you see most of the big cost difference.

    When I made mine, I started out with a rotor from a F16, that's why mine turned out a bit pricey.


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  16. #116
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    Ok, so they dissipate more or less heat than Iron at any given temperature?
    It has been a while, but I did pass Thermodynamics and Diff.Eq, and I know how heat is transferred, and what the rates are, and could probably even figure out how much longer it would take a carbon rotor to cool off than an iron one from a given temperature, or inversely, how long it would take to heat it up.
    What temps are they each running at in a drive cycle test for extreme mountain bike use?
    Would the Iron rotors in the same dynomometer test not dissipate heat more quickly?
    The advantage of the carbon rotor is that it functions just fine at very high temperatures, at which any material can dissipate heat quicker than at low temperatures.
    I have no doubt that the carbon rotors will work better in most conditions, while also saving quite a bit of rotating weight, and lasting much longer.
    the only reason heat dissipation could be an issue is that the pads also get hot, and most of their cooling is done by transferring that heat to an Iron rotor that dissipates heat much more quickly than carbon at a given temperature(you don't see many carbon heat sinks do you?).
    This could certainly be worked out with cooling fins(heat sink) on the backs of the pads, or a different pad compund that is able to handle the same temperatures as the rotors.
    Of course, if the amount of heat generated in the first place is not enough to even affect the pads, then it is not an issue even with current pads, as it seems Kettle has stated, but I think from reading their info, pad wear may be slightly more with the carbon rotors.

    As far as the cost being related to the base material cost, I think the most expensive part is forming it together, since you obviously can't just use normal epoxy or ester resins. The carbon fiber, ceramics and silicon carbide shouldn't be that expensive in raw form.

    No disrespect on the thermodynamics stuff, just trying to figure out what you mean by dissipates heat better.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by autodoctor911 View Post
    Ok, so they dissipate more or less heat than Iron at any given temperature?
    It has been a while, but I did pass Thermodynamics and Diff.Eq, and I know how heat is transferred, and what the rates are, and could probably even figure out how much longer it would take a carbon rotor to cool off than an iron one from a given temperature, or inversely, how long it would take to heat it up.
    What temps are they each running at in a drive cycle test for extreme mountain bike use?
    Would the Iron rotors in the same dynomometer test not dissipate heat more quickly?
    The advantage of the carbon rotor is that it functions just fine at very high temperatures, at which any material can dissipate heat quicker than at low temperatures.
    I have no doubt that the carbon rotors will work better in most conditions, while also saving quite a bit of rotating weight, and lasting much longer.
    the only reason heat dissipation could be an issue is that the pads also get hot, and most of their cooling is done by transferring that heat to an Iron rotor that dissipates heat much more quickly than carbon at a given temperature(you don't see many carbon heat sinks do you?).
    This could certainly be worked out with cooling fins(heat sink) on the backs of the pads, or a different pad compund that is able to handle the same temperatures as the rotors.
    Of course, if the amount of heat generated in the first place is not enough to even affect the pads, then it is not an issue even with current pads, as it seems Kettle has stated, but I think from reading their info, pad wear may be slightly more with the carbon rotors.

    As far as the cost being related to the base material cost, I think the most expensive part is forming it together, since you obviously can't just use normal epoxy or ester resins. The carbon fiber, ceramics and silicon carbide shouldn't be that expensive in raw form.

    No disrespect on the thermodynamics stuff, just trying to figure out what you mean by dissipates heat better.
    No offense taken, we are just having a discussion

    I can't recall the exact number, but the heat dissipation factor for the carbon, is higher by itself than of polished steel.
    I measured that back then, by thermographic imaging.
    The biggest difference is as you pointed out yourself, that once they get up in temperature, they keep on working, and under those conditions, they offer pretty high dissipation. This could also have been offered to some extend by a steel rotor, but fading and failing will kick in before that happens.

    Actually carbon heat sinks exists. This is one of the ways to get a material that has different heat transfer characteristics, depending which direction it goes in the material.
    It works rather well, but is super expensive. Some of that effect can be found in certain types of carbon SIC rotors. I utilized that back when building my class A amplifiers, to distribute heat.

    Part of the reason the raw material is costly, is the treatment it needs to work.
    The other reason things gets expensive, is the amount of time and energy that goes into this stuff.

    The pic below shows my carbon SIC brake and the pads.
    I made the pads of carbon SIC with directional heat transfer, and threw in some fins for good measure.


    Magura

  18. #118
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    Ah, so they do make carbon heat sinks, you got me there. My point was that generally metals are better at getting rid of heat. Maybe the heat dissipation constant that you found to be higher for carbon was for radiant heat transfer? I think brake rotors cool mainly by conducting heat directly to air, so the radiant heat dissipation is less useful.
    I like your SIC pads, with built in heat sink. I didn't even notice them in the picture the first time I looked at it. You were able to machine the rotors and pads from existing aircraft parts?
    That setup should have very long life, I would presume. Is the friction coefficient very good cold after they are worn to smooth polished finish on pads and rotor? Or does the material retain a rough texture throughout it's wear?
    I worked on a formula SAE car back in 1994, and We tested some of the first carbon/carbon rotors designed for good cold bite. They were made with a rough finish to help initial bite. It worked well, and we actually never wore them smooth from the initial pattern, but we didn't put them to that much use either. The car completed competition that year, and wasn't driven again afterwards. We tore it down to make a much more crude car the next year. We stripped the motor and suspension from a carbon tub car with composite pullrods and single interconected(L&R) front and rear springs to build a steel tube frame car with more conventional 3 spring front and rear. The judges penalized anything exotic and high priced, so we went low tech the next time, including switching back to iron rotors. It was not a well developed car though, and we fared worse the next year, despite fewer cost penalties.

  19. #119
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    From experience....carbon rotors (and carbon compound break pads as well) on motorcycles work great on the racetrack AFTER they are fully up to operating temperature and kept there. However when not heated to temps they suck and are downright dangerous.
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  20. #120
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    I read through all 5 pages and saw no mention of this and was curious if carbon SIC is a brittle material, or if there are significant concerns of damage or failure over conventional steel rotors in the event of a crash? If they deflect and retain there shape that would be better than bent rotors.

  21. #121
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    ^^^^^^
    What he said

  22. #122
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    I envision crash failure ... But I'm just making an educated guess, based on what I have seen happen to other composites.

    Done right ... This can work well.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    Done right ... This can work well.
    This would be the most educated that's been said about this so far


    Impact that would cause significant damage to a well made composite rotor, would kill a steel rotor as well for sure.
    Minor impacts that would make a steel rotor drag like crazy, would cause no damage to a composite rotor.
    Mine has seen impact a few times, with no significant damage.



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  24. #124
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    I am so bummed I did not pull the trigger on the these a month ago.

    If anyone in the Vancouver / Squamish / Whistler area is getting a set I would love to check them out on your bike (for a case of beer of course)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    This would be the most educated that's been said about this so far


    Impact that would cause significant damage to a well made composite rotor, would kill a steel rotor as well for sure.
    Minor impacts that would make a steel rotor drag like crazy, would cause no damage to a composite rotor.
    Mine has seen impact a few times, with no significant damage.



    Magura
    I thought this might interest you - yet2.com - Tech of the Week Detail

    Waiting for it to catch on in the LED lighting market.

  26. #126
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    I will take a set of the "Mr.Magura" signature editions please.

  27. #127
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    i have sic guides on my fishing rods. they are known in fishing to be super hard, resistant to friction and somewhat brittle. as a raw material, its pretty expensive. they resist wear from abrasive stuff such as synthetic braided line.

    im not weight weenie, but things like this trickle after a couple of years of wide acceptance. the future looks good.

  28. #128
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    Upon further research, I found that carbon ceramics can have as great as 3 times the thermal conductivity of iron/steel, but that is with complicated nanotube structures. In practice the thermal transfer constant is around 40 W/M K compared to cast iron at 55, and carbon steel at 43, and aluminum at 210. I also noticed stainless steel is really poor at thermal conductivity at around 16. So, stay away from stainless rotors.
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  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    I thought this might interest you - yet2.com - Tech of the Week Detail

    Waiting for it to catch on in the LED lighting market.
    Thanks for the heads up

    This resembles the solution, I used for thermal management, of the amplifiers I made a few years ago.
    It's nice to see the technology gain some momentum though.


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  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by autodoctor911 View Post
    Upon further research, I found that carbon ceramics can have as great as 3 times the thermal conductivity of iron/steel, but that is with complicated nanotube structures. In practice the thermal transfer constant is around 40 W/M K compared to cast iron at 55, and carbon steel at 43, and aluminum at 210. I also noticed stainless steel is really poor at thermal conductivity at around 16. So, stay away from stainless rotors.
    If you look a bit deeper into what happens, with carbon and graphite thermal management materials, you'd see that the above is an over simplified statement.

    There are loads of that kind of stuff out there, much of it beats aluminum by far.
    For instance you can find a few bits like that in military aircraft electronics.


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    Yes, oversimplified. that 40 W/M K was taken from a manufacturer of SIC rotors for cars, and I'm sure there is much variation from one design to another there. I now know that the carbon composite materials can be formulated to have greater heat conductivity even than that of aluminum, while still having a higher specific heat(takes more energy to heat up). Pretty amazing, I never knew heat energy could be conducted anisotropically(direction dependent) before entering this discussion. It is hard to imagine exactly how this might work. At some microscopic level is heat energy acting like a wave? I am curious now to find out more,

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by autodoctor911 View Post
    Yes, oversimplified. that 40 W/M K was taken from a manufacturer of SIC rotors for cars, and I'm sure there is much variation from one design to another there. I now know that the carbon composite materials can be formulated to have greater heat conductivity even than that of aluminum, while still having a higher specific heat(takes more energy to heat up). Pretty amazing, I never knew heat energy could be conducted anisotropically(direction dependent) before entering this discussion. It is hard to imagine exactly how this might work. At some microscopic level is heat energy acting like a wave? I am curious now to find out more,
    I have seen big variations in conductivity, even between similar manufacturing methods.
    I too have spent some time playing around with carbon multi-wall nanotubes, which can sport some of the same thermal properties, but are easier to deal with.

    As far as I recall, all energy is wave based.

    Once you start thinking about it, this sort of properties are fascinating.
    Coupled with fair mechanical properties, it opens up for many possibilities.
    ......and it always leaves people puzzled, when you make something that utilizes some of the potential of the material


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    What's the status on the roll-out of these rotors?
    The funding goal was met on December 3, and the only change on the web site is the removal of all the "authorized dealers."

    Just curious.

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  35. #135
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    Carbon Brake rotors-858331_10200644083603395_1013640212_o.jpgMy Kettle rotors showed up today. They look awesome. They won't be getting any miles on them for a couple of weeks, but I'll update when they do. They came in nice packaging, and the build quality looks solid.
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  36. #136
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    Size? Weight? Location, perhaps? I'm in Europe wondering where mine are...

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubthang View Post
    My Kettle rotors showed up today. They look awesome. They won't be getting any miles on them for a couple of weeks, but I'll update when they do. They came in nice packaging, and the build quality looks solid.
    Were you on the first or second batch?
    I'm on the second one and as Giantdale, wondering if I'll get them anytime soon.
    I've learned that nobody got a shipping notice.

  38. #138
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    These are 160's. I haven't weighted them yet since my scale is in my basement, and I'm being lazy. Also, I'm in Portland, Maine.

    Edit: These are from the first batch. I didn't get a shipping notice, but I did get an email to confirm my order and addy. They were shipped Priority Mail.
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    Received mine today also, TX USA, first batch. Ditto on the very professional looking packaging. Will weigh tomorrow before installation. The rotors will get a couple hours of being put through their paces tomorrow afternoon.

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    Keep waiting and waiting my SiCCC.because kettle work on rotor more than tracking numbers so they do not provide all buyer tracking number one by one..

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    I think these rotors are going to be great, I am ready to try some. I see they are charging quite a bit more for the larger sizes on the one piece rotors, and I don't see any of the cheaper 2 piece ones available for ordering.

    I wonder if they perform well enough that I could use the smaller sizes(160F,140R) to replace larger steel rotors(180f, 160r).

  42. #142
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    Does anybody know what kind of pads (metallic or organic) you're supposed to use on these rotors?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katz View Post
    Does anybody know what kind of pads (metallic or organic) you're supposed to use on these rotors?
    Frequently Asked Questions

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    Cool, thanks!

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    I didn't get in on the kickstarter program and I'm wondering if now that they have acheived their initial goal and started production how soon before these will be available to the rest of us?

  46. #146
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    I couldn't find info on the site. How thick are these rotors?

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    1.9 mm!

  48. #148
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    Thanks for the info, I typed my question wrong.. Was wondering how large a pad can be used?

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    those look legit

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    Is something wrong with the other carbon rotor thread? I only see the first 3 or 4 posts.

    Edit: It seems jacked, I guess I will post here then.

    My siccc rotor review is bad. They are coming off after two rides. They feel like they give about 50% power braking compared to the avids I had on there, and they have not gotten better as I ride them in. I don't know if they heat up and get better because I didn't take them on any long downhills, but I was dragging them constantly on what there was to keep my speed in in check and it didn't change anything. Even if it did, I would still take them off.

    I bedded them in according to their directions, I tried all the different pads I have(shimano metal and resin, koolstop, ebc gold) and none of them worked anywhere near how they work on steel.

    I would guess you would have to size up two sizes with the carbon to get equal brake power, and then you are losing the weight advantage. They might work ok on a cross bike with 32c knobbies, but I don't have one of those with disks to try them on.

    I thought they were a cool idea, the construction seems good, and they are true and laterally stiff. They might work for somebody, but not me.
    Last edited by Gilarider; 02-25-2013 at 01:30 PM.

  51. #151
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    Anybody try these in wet or snow conditions yet? Do they still squeal like the steel rotors when they get damp?

  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilarider View Post
    Is something wrong with the other carbon rotor thread? I only see the first 3 or 4 posts.

    Edit: It seems jacked, I guess I will post here then.

    My siccc rotor review is bad. They are coming off after two rides. They feel like they give about 50% power braking compared to the avids I had on there, and they have not gotten better as I ride them in. I don't know if they heat up and get better because I didn't take them on any long downhills, but I was dragging them constantly on what there was to keep my speed in in check and it didn't change anything. Even if it did, I would still take them off.

    I bedded them in according to their directions, I tried all the different pads I have(shimano metal and resin, koolstop, ebc gold) and none of them worked anywhere near how they work on steel.

    I would guess you would have to size up two sizes with the carbon to get equal brake power, and then you are losing the weight advantage. They might work ok on a cross bike with 32c knobbies, but I don't have one of those with disks to try them on.

    I thought they were a cool idea, the construction seems good, and they are true and laterally stiff. They might work for somebody, but not me.
    Well thats dicouraging. sure it isn't a bed in issue? I know you said you tried several different pads, but did you do several rides on just one set of pads? if this is the case no one is going to use them.

    I just read on the FB page that they have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. I wonder if this is a cash back gurantee?

  53. #153
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    If you are having problems with please contact us via our support system.
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    We want you to be as happy as we are with SiCCC rotors.

    For reference this video covers burn in. Although we can't cover every thread on every forum we can handle problems through our ticket system.
    Thanks,
    Josh


  54. #154
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    Carbon Brake rotors

    I just got an update on the 2 piece rotors. Looks like they had to change the design due to a legal reason?

    Either way they're flat out ugly now. They look like mid 90's Camaro wheels





  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilarider View Post
    Is something wrong with the other carbon rotor thread? I only see the first 3 or 4 posts.

    Edit: It seems jacked, I guess I will post here then.

    My siccc rotor review is bad. They are coming off after two rides. They feel like they give about 50% power braking compared to the avids I had on there, and they have not gotten better as I ride them in. I don't know if they heat up and get better because I didn't take them on any long downhills, but I was dragging them constantly on what there was to keep my speed in in check and it didn't change anything. Even if it did, I would still take them off.

    I bedded them in according to their directions, I tried all the different pads I have(shimano metal and resin, koolstop, ebc gold) and none of them worked anywhere near how they work on steel.

    I would guess you would have to size up two sizes with the carbon to get equal brake power, and then you are losing the weight advantage. They might work ok on a cross bike with 32c knobbies, but I don't have one of those with disks to try them on.

    I thought they were a cool idea, the construction seems good, and they are true and laterally stiff. They might work for somebody, but not me.
    I'm not questioning your tests as I don't have them,
    Did you use new pads? I ask because I made the mistake one time of swaping bwtween a magura and formula rotor right before a ride. Let me just say braking power was at 50% of best most of the ride. I had to pull the pads and put new ones in and my brake power returned.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilarider View Post
    Is something wrong with the other carbon rotor thread? I only see the first 3 or 4 posts.

    Edit: It seems jacked, I guess I will post here then.

    My siccc rotor review is bad. They are coming off after two rides. They feel like they give about 50% power braking compared to the avids I had on there, and they have not gotten better as I ride them in. I don't know if they heat up and get better because I didn't take them on any long downhills, but I was dragging them constantly on what there was to keep my speed in in check and it didn't change anything. Even if it did, I would still take them off.

    I bedded them in according to their directions, I tried all the different pads I have(shimano metal and resin, koolstop, ebc gold) and none of them worked anywhere near how they work on steel.

    I would guess you would have to size up two sizes with the carbon to get equal brake power, and then you are losing the weight advantage. They might work ok on a cross bike with 32c knobbies, but I don't have one of those with disks to try them on.

    I thought they were a cool idea, the construction seems good, and they are true and laterally stiff. They might work for somebody, but not me.
    I'll take that junk off your hands. $75. What's your paypal?

  57. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikebmx999 View Post
    I just got an update on the 2 piece rotors. Looks like they had to change the design due to a legal reason?

    Either way they're flat out ugly now. They look like mid 90's Camaro wheels
    Well that's disappointing. I backed them for a pair of 180mm 2-pc rotors. I can understand why they chose to get rid of rivets, but I too don't care for the new spoke design and I was hoping they'd offer them in darker metallic blue that somewhat matches blue anodizing, instead of that baby blue/turquoise.

    I just sent them a request to send me a pair of 1-pc rotors instead.

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by santacruzflyer View Post
    I'll take that junk off your hands. $75. What's your paypal?
    I'll give you $76.13 and I'll give you my old Avid G2 rotor I use for brake bleeds..
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  59. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilarider View Post
    Is something wrong with the other carbon rotor thread? I only see the first 3 or 4 posts.

    Edit: It seems jacked, I guess I will post here then.

    My siccc rotor review is bad. They are coming off after two rides. They feel like they give about 50% power braking compared to the avids I had on there, and they have not gotten better as I ride them in. I don't know if they heat up and get better because I didn't take them on any long downhills, but I was dragging them constantly on what there was to keep my speed in in check and it didn't change anything. Even if it did, I would still take them off.

    I bedded them in according to their directions, I tried all the different pads I have(shimano metal and resin, koolstop, ebc gold) and none of them worked anywhere near how they work on steel.

    I would guess you would have to size up two sizes with the carbon to get equal brake power, and then you are losing the weight advantage. They might work ok on a cross bike with 32c knobbies, but I don't have one of those with disks to try them on.

    I thought they were a cool idea, the construction seems good, and they are true and laterally stiff. They might work for somebody, but not me.
    Post a pic of the rotor that is not working too well.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  60. #160
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    $76.15 and I'll go with you on rides and slow your whining ass down.

    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    I'll give you $76.13 and I'll give you my old Avid G2 rotor I use for brake bleeds..

  61. #161
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    Carbon Brake rotors

    Quote Originally Posted by Katz View Post
    Well that's disappointing. I backed them for a pair of 180mm 2-pc rotors. I can understand why they chose to get rid of rivets, but I too don't care for the new spoke design and I was hoping they'd offer them in darker metallic blue that somewhat matches blue anodizing, instead of that baby blue/turquoise.

    I just sent them a request to send me a pair of 1-pc rotors instead.
    I was thinking of doing the same.

  62. #162
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    Anybody that tell me,is it the braking power increase after using this rotors?

  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilarider View Post

    My siccc rotor review is bad. They are coming off after two rides. They feel like they give about 50% power braking compared to the avids I had on there, and they have not gotten better as I ride them in. I don't know if they heat up and get better because I didn't take them on any long downhills, but I was dragging them constantly on what there was to keep my speed in in check and it didn't change anything. Even if it did, I would still take them off.

    I bedded them in according to their directions, I tried all the different pads I have(shimano metal and resin, koolstop, ebc gold) and none of them worked anywhere near how they work on steel.

    I would guess you would have to size up two sizes with the carbon to get equal brake power, and then you are losing the weight advantage. They might work ok on a cross bike with 32c knobbies, but I don't have one of those with disks to try them on.

    I thought they were a cool idea, the construction seems good, and they are true and laterally stiff. They might work for somebody, but not me.
    I have the exact same experience. I used new sintered pads on my Formula R1 brakes, and I followed the burn in described in the video. Braking peformance actually went down as the rotors burned in. It feels like massive brake pad fade, there's very little friction. Pretty much the same experience I've had with various alu discs in the past, regardless of their coating.

    I later wiped the rotors clean with alcohol, and the rag came away pitch black even after several cleanings. I guess this is either carbon from the disc, pad material, or possibly carbonized pad material (faded pads).

    After the cleaning, I went out for a test ride again. But this time I also brought a water bottle. I still got no braking power. But spraying a bit of water on, dramaticly increased the friction, as one would expect when brake pads have carbonized. The drawback was a howling noise so loud that people a hundred yards down the street turned to see how was flaying live cats. As soon as the discs dried, the poor performace was back.

    I'll try Goodridge sintered pads next. If that doesn't work, I'll use the discs as trivets and call it a fun, albeit expensive, experiment.

    What I don't understand is, why do the rotors need a visible layer of pad material transfer, if the SiC is supposed to supply the friction? Steel discs do not have a tick layer of pad material deposited on them.

    Anyways, I started a ticked on the Kettle website, but I have yet to hear back from them.


    Ole.

  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by santacruzflyer View Post
    $76.15 and I'll go with you on rides and slow your whining ass down.
    OK, $76.25 is my final offer and I will throw in some warm beer that has been in the pantry for 6 months.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole View Post
    I have the exact same experience. I used new sintered pads on my Formula R1 brakes, and I followed the burn in described in the video. Braking peformance actually went down as the rotors burned in. It feels like massive brake pad fade, there's very little friction. Pretty much the same experience I've had with various alu discs in the past, regardless of their coating.

    I later wiped the rotors clean with alcohol, and the rag came away pitch black even after several cleanings. I guess this is either carbon from the disc, pad material, or possibly carbonized pad material (faded pads).

    After the cleaning, I went out for a test ride again. But this time I also brought a water bottle. I still got no braking power. But spraying a bit of water on, dramaticly increased the friction, as one would expect when brake pads have carbonized. The drawback was a howling noise so loud that people a hundred yards down the street turned to see how was flaying live cats. As soon as the discs dried, the poor performace was back.

    I'll try Goodridge sintered pads next. If that doesn't work, I'll use the discs as trivets and call it a fun, albeit expensive, experiment.

    What I don't understand is, why do the rotors need a visible layer of pad material transfer, if the SiC is supposed to supply the friction? Steel discs do not have a tick layer of pad material deposited on them.

    Anyways, I started a ticked on the Kettle website, but I have yet to hear back from them.


    Ole.
    Bummer, I have to wonder what is going on as it sounds like you didn't have any contaminates or glazed pads.

    It's not like the Formula R1's are weak brakes either.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  66. #166
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    Bummer, I was hoping to hear good things.

  67. #167
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    I would hold out on final judgement just yet. This is a new product/technology that doesn't break in like the old. I am going to post up a review after tomorrow's ride, which will cover eight hours over 4 rides and two sets of pads; my results differ.

  68. #168
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    Crap, I'm out. There has never been beer here that lasted 6 hrs much less 6 months


    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    OK, $76.25 is my final offer and I will throw in some warm beer that has been in the pantry for 6 months.

  69. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by santacruzflyer View Post
    I would hold out on final judgement just yet. This is a new product/technology that doesn't break in like the old. I am going to post up a review after tomorrow's ride, which will cover eight hours over 4 rides and two sets of pads; my results differ.

    Yeah, let us know if you got them working and how. I am thinking of trying a new set of pads and just one rotor so I don't kill myself on rides.

  70. #170
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    They sent out an email saying that rotors were sent out with kerosene still on them. They gave instructions on how to get rid of it. I will see if it works.

  71. #171
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    I was going to to do a big write up on how I got these to work, but received an email from Kettle Cycles last nite explaining the problem with bedding in. Turns out a cleaning solution used after the last step of production was not completely removed, resulting in a longer bedding in period while the contaminant was removed. That would explain my experience. After six hours of white knuckle squeezing on the brake levers, three on sintered pads and three on half used organic, my discs are working great. The discs feel on par with the Hope floating they replaced, good power with excellent modulation. After the 6 hour break in period, I had two one hour rides with the organic pads. On those two rides, I rode without even thinking about the brakes. The brakes are deathly silent. Incredibly silent. There is no noise as you roll along, and when you squeeze the levers, the same no noise. There is a slight sanding sound when the brakes are applied, but is completely obscured with the littlest of trail noise. Where I am at with the discs right now, with them working as well as my previous discs, and being completely silent, I am more than satisfied. I feel they will get better in the next few rides. Going to pull them off and let them sit in the sun Saturday and use some new organics. Yea the 6 hour break in was kind of long, and the first hour was actually a little harrowing. That first hour though, showed me I was able to ride through some corners and sections with a lot more speed than I was carrying before.

  72. #172
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    I have been riding these rotors for about a month now on CX disc bike with Avid BB7 SL's and like most here was experiencing power less than the original steel rotors. The weather here in Chicago and my schedule has only allowed me to get road rides in so far on the rotors or about 250 miles or so. I did not place new pads in the brakes when the swap was made just swapped rotors and began the bed in process. After each ride the braking power has gotten noticibly better and I would say that I am at about 90% of the steel rotor braking power right now. I don't know this for a fact but if I was riding a MTB where braking is more frequent and more demanding I feel that the rotors would have acheived full power sooner. Again I am on a avid mechanical disc brake bike with one pad pushing against another not pinching like hydros and I have 90% of what I had with steel rotors. i look forward to rriding these on my Shimano Xt's on the race rig.

    I will be patient with this new tech and have high hopes of riding these rotors now and on all my bikes in the future. 30 day money back and a 3-year crash replacement these guys want to do good by their product and by their customers!
    If You Don't Ride You'll Rust!

  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikebmx999 View Post
    I was thinking of doing the same.
    Got the reply. They'll change mine to 1-pc rotors no problem. I decided to get a pair of 160mm for my DJ bike, instead of 180mm for my AM-ish bike as I originally intended.

  74. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole View Post
    I have the exact same experience. I used new sintered pads on my Formula R1 brakes, and I followed the burn in described in the video. Braking peformance actually went down as the rotors burned in. It feels like massive brake pad fade, there's very little friction. Pretty much the same experience I've had with various alu discs in the past, regardless of their coating.

    I later wiped the rotors clean with alcohol, and the rag came away pitch black even after several cleanings. I guess this is either carbon from the disc, pad material, or possibly carbonized pad material (faded pads).

    After the cleaning, I went out for a test ride again. But this time I also brought a water bottle. I still got no braking power. But spraying a bit of water on, dramaticly increased the friction, as one would expect when brake pads have carbonized. The drawback was a howling noise so loud that people a hundred yards down the street turned to see how was flaying live cats. As soon as the discs dried, the poor performace was back.

    I'll try Goodridge sintered pads next. If that doesn't work, I'll use the discs as trivets and call it a fun, albeit expensive, experiment.

    What I don't understand is, why do the rotors need a visible layer of pad material transfer, if the SiC is supposed to supply the friction? Steel discs do not have a tick layer of pad material deposited on them.

    Anyways, I started a ticked on the Kettle website, but I have yet to hear back from them.


    Ole.
    Ok. now I have cleaned the rotors with acetone, baked them in the oven at 100c for 30 minutes to get rid of kerosene from production, and put on Kool Stop organic pads. My original Formula sintered pads were just chewed to bits by the discs for some reason, and left a thick layer of brake dust on the discs.

    Did a short brake in session friday, and went for a short rid with my 9 year old yesterday, and now I actually have brakes. I'd say I now have around 70% the power I have from steel brakes, but it's getting better all the time. Before, I got 5% power max. I guess I now have good enough brakes to dare to do a real ride, and that should hopefully improve things further.

  75. #175
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    Did the email that went out about kerosene say anything about them fixing the issue on their end? Seems like a real screwup on their end, which makes it a lot harder to figure out if these things are legit.

    I did notice they now have pad recommendations on their website, but I didn't see anything about cleaning rotors.

    More reviews please!
    Riding: '91 Carbon Epic Stumpjumper w/1" Slicks and a Rack on the Back

  76. #176
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    Just received today from Malaysia..the one I installed on rear seem like have a little bend..I think have to find a long descent trail to burn in and see is it will be better..

  77. #177
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    I just got a shipping notice, my second batch rotors are on the way.

  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by jos3ph4ever View Post
    Just received today from Malaysia..the one I installed on rear seem like have a little bend..I think have to find a long descent trail to burn in and see is it will be better..
    Problem solved after reinstalled the rotor..

  79. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole View Post
    Ok. now I have cleaned the rotors with acetone, baked them in the oven at 100c for 30 minutes to get rid of kerosene from production, and put on Kool Stop organic pads. My original Formula sintered pads were just chewed to bits by the discs for some reason, and left a thick layer of brake dust on the discs.

    Did a short brake in session friday, and went for a short rid with my 9 year old yesterday, and now I actually have brakes. I'd say I now have around 70% the power I have from steel brakes, but it's getting better all the time. Before, I got 5% power max. I guess I now have good enough brakes to dare to do a real ride, and that should hopefully improve things further.
    Hi Ole,

    Is it acetone called nail polish remover?

    How do you clean with acetone?how many acetone need to clean it?

    Can you give me the tutorial about how to clean and bake it?

    I am facing same problem too...4km decent still cant burned in my 160s..and my avid elixr 5 also boil...

    Joseph

  80. #180
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    Acetone should be pure for cleaning of brake rotors. Nail polish removers contain beside acetone also oils that shouldn't come in contact with rotors.

  81. #181
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    @jos3ph4eve: how long was the shipping time in your case?

  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantdale View Post
    @jos3ph4eve: how long was the shipping time in your case?
    Around 10days.

  83. #183
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    Nice, thank you!

  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantdale View Post
    Acetone should be pure for cleaning of brake rotors. Nail polish removers contain beside acetone also oils that shouldn't come in contact with rotors.
    Don know where to buy acetone here..or I think just pull out the rotor and put under hot sun will be better?i scare the acetone will harm my rotors..will it?

  85. #185
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    Aceton will for sure not harm the rotors. Hot sun will not help your case either :-)

  86. #186
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    So which mean I still have to find that acetone and clean it then bake it in micro oven to get them working right?

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    I don't have any experience yet, my rotors are in the mail (happy!). But I use either acetone or isopropyl alcohol for steel rotors with good results. No microwave ovens, though. Keep in mind, acetone has a 56deg Celsius boilng point-that is very low!

  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantdale View Post
    I don't have any experience yet, my rotors are in the mail (happy!). But I use either acetone or isopropyl alcohol for steel rotors with good results. No microwave ovens, though. Keep in mind, acetone has a 56deg Celsius boilng point-that is very low!
    With the low boiling point mean I can clean with acetone and baked under hot sun enough?

  89. #189
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    Means it will evaporate quickly and is very flammable as well-caution. You use it to dissolve the residue from your rotors and remove it with swipes. Just soaking rotors and leave them to dry will not do it.

  90. #190
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    Carbon Brake rotors

    Just use isopropyl alcohol. Theres probably some in your bathroom cabinet.

  91. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantdale View Post
    Means it will evaporate quickly and is very flammable as well-caution. You use it to dissolve the residue from your rotors and remove it with swipes. Just soaking rotors and leave them to dry will not do it.
    Ok,will find that acetone at my nearest paint shop or hardware shop...
    Hope it will be fine..

    Btw,learn few chemical scientific name today.haha.

  92. #192
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    Any hope tech x2 with SiCCC owner here?how they perform?

  93. #193
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    Looking at getting these for my Hope V2 brakes. These brakes need a slightly deeper track, does anyone have measurements on the track depth?

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    Thats it! Im ordering a Set 140mm rear and 160mm front for my new Mavic SLR's I will let you know how it goes

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    Hello,

    We really prefer to be contacted directly through our email or support ticket system. A small staff and long days make keeping up with so many portals of communication daunting. Early on the thread was utterly useless, but now at least we'd like to clear a few things up.

    We expect anyone to get exceptional performance from their rotors for a very long time, a minimum of three years under normal circumstances. While we tested many brake systems - with the assumption that the riders buying SiCCC rotors would have higher end, newer gear, we did know that was /is possible for some less desirable matches. We did not want to force pads on customers and we feel that the vast majority will be very pleased.

    Naming pad compounds / construction doesn't work. Each manufacturer has a tweak to their composition. We find it's better to speak in specifics Xcompanies Ypad.

    We are working on a factory burn in that doesn't make the rotor look used. Expecting riders to spend a few laps burning in and becoming familiar with the modulation seemed reasonable to us. We understand better now the level of impatience of trying a new part and importance of taking the rotors reputation above a procedural issue. But again, we are still looking for a specific solution and that may take some time.

    As far as burn ins, we will revise the instructions to use numbers instead of descriptions. I am breathing hard after a burn in session, but it only takes a few laps. I have the room to sprint to 15mph, then smooth brake to 2-5mph, not a jolt. About 8 of those gets the bike feeling trail worthy. Worst thing you can do is a hard brake and leave a lump of film on a virgin burn in. The other thing we see is holding the brake and pedaling hard. Not good. It is far easier to do it right the first time.

    As far as the baking: it wasn't kerosene, it was -like- kerosene. And while all the smaller runs were cleaned with our surface scrubbing easily - production means parts get stacked and the machine operator goes on smoke breaks etc. So some rotors got more saturated and the old procedure wasn't enough. If there was a remote chance a customers rotor was effected, they were notified. In the united states of lawyers, never put anything in your oven other than apple pie. A little time in the sun gives you a chance to take pictures.

    Switching pads: if you switch you must clean. Changing pad compounds is a bigger deal than it may seem. Take the time and do it right. If you have specific Brake system /pad combo questions, support tickets to ask us, or soon - I think this thread will have great info sharing (can't we have a new, cleaner one, without it starting off with nonsense?) with the many combinations that provide a great braking platform.

    And finally, what brought me here, we use Acetone to clean the film off with paper towels or micro fiber (nothing else, and no abrasives!) and it takes some patience. But we do not use alcohol, we have that and many other cleaners here. Acetone. Experimenting is up to you but please don't disregard any companies instructions and then cry foul. Same with the burn in, mounting or bleed instructions.

    Again, if you have any questions - right now the best thing is to ask us via support ticket on the site. The whole goal of the kickstarter was to convert riders, teach them and let them go spread the word.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Aaron.S; 03-05-2013 at 04:11 PM.

  96. #196
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    I'm converted and spreading the word. I really wanted these to work and just kept riding them until they did. They work excellent now. Thanks Kettle dudes!

  97. #197
    Maromero
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    Hey Aaron, good to see that not only I got quick response to my doubts by mail, but you also got into this thread to help solve others.

  98. #198
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    damn those rotors look sexy!

  99. #199
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    I got my Rotors 160/180mm. I am using them with 2012 Avid XX brakes with stock pads. The pads were used so I scuffed them using 600 grit sand paper to remove the glaze from the steel rotors. I followed the break in procedure provided by Kettle cycles and properly adjusted my brakes. So far they are great, The modulation properties over the steel rotors are way better.








  100. #200
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    ^^^^ those look so nice mounted up, the steel rotor is the only thing on my bike not murdered out, I want some but was waiting to see how the worked out

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