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Thread: Breaking Power

  1. #1
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    Breaking Power

    Hi,
    I am considering Avid BB7 disk breaks but I hear that being mechanical they do not have the same stopping power that hydraulics do.

    I am a moderate XC rider.

    Would appreciate some learned opinions - Thanks

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winnetou
    Hi,
    I am considering Avid BB7 disk breaks but I hear that being mechanical they do not have the same stopping power that hydraulics do.
    That's not true. They're one of, if not the most powerful xc BRAKES I've tested or owned. Check the spelling of that word in upper case. Power is not dependent on the method of force transmission.

    Mike T. (mcm # 717 & FOG)
    Mike The Bike's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

  3. #3
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    They have more than enough stopping power--I run a set on my bike. Before Avid came out with these mech. disc brakes, the existing mech. discs weren't as good as hydraulics. That's where the mech. brake got it's bad rap from. However, those were first generation brakes, and the Avid's are pretty awesome. Oh, and extremely easy to set up.

    The only difference that I keep hearing brought up is that the Avid BB7's don't have the modulation of hydraulics--you have to pull further and harder to get the full power from mech. brakes (Hydros' power arrives almost 'instantaneously'--they're really sensitive)
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ickyickyptngzutboing
    The only difference that I keep hearing brought up is that the Avid BB7's don't have the modulation of hydraulics--you have to pull further and harder to get the full power from mech. brakes (Hydros' power arrives almost 'instantaneously'--they're really sensitive)
    I'm pulling up a chair for when Shiggy comes along and has his way with you.
    Mike The Bike's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    Power is not dependent on the method of force transmission.

    Mike T. (mcm # 717 & FOG)
    Huh? I can get lots more caliper force, and stopping power, with x number of ounces of effort applied to my hydraulic levers than you can with your mechanicals. Nevertheless, both systems are miles better than the old systems. Good luck. - Dave
    Last edited by dnpeters; 04-17-2005 at 03:02 PM. Reason: Changed manual to mechanicals

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnpeters
    Huh? I can get lots more caliper force, and stopping power, with x number of ounces of effort applied to my hydraulic levers than you can with your manuals. Nevertheless, both systems are miles better than the old systems. Good luck. - Dave
    I don't have any "manuals". I don't have any mechanicals either or any cable discs. I never said I did. I still don't agree with you though.

    Uhh on 2nd thoughts, they're ALL manuals.
    Mike The Bike's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    I don't have any "manuals". I don't have any mechanicals either or any cable discs. I never said I did. I still don't agree with you though.

    Uhh on 2nd thoughts, they're ALL manuals.
    Maybe those of us who are "older" still remember the differences we experienced when cars changed from "mechanical" to hydraulic brakes, and then to power. For me, the improvement is just as noticeable on my bike. You may not agree with me, but I've had both, and apparently you haven't. Good luck. - Dave
    Last edited by dnpeters; 04-17-2005 at 03:00 PM. Reason: Changed manual to mechanical

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnpeters
    Maybe those of us who are "older" still remember the differences we experienced when cars changed from "mechanical" to hydraulic brakes, and then to power. For me, the improvement is just as noticeable on my bike. You may not agree with me, but I've had both, and apparently you haven't. Good luck. - Dave
    The first car we had used rod operated brakes. It was probably a '50s British Ford. I used to help my Dad change the clevises, lube the bellcranks and adjust the adjusters. That led to an early career as a licensed auto tech in two countries. Now who would even consider comparing a drum braked, rod operated braking system to a disc brake hydraulic one?

    I've extensively tested Avid cable discs and many other hydraulic systems not to mention Formula cable discs in my "research" for the implementation, writing and editing of our Disc Brake FAQ at the top right of this page. I said at the time and I'll say it now after having tested, owned and used many disc braking systems over the past six years - the Avid cable disc is at least as powerful as the most powerful hydraulic xc disc setup I've tested and more powerful than most. That's my findings and opinion.

    BTW - I use hydraulic brakes.

    BTW² - I am "older". I'm 57. But that's relative.

    Mike T. (mcm # 717 & FOG)
    Mike The Bike's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    The first car we had used rod operated brakes. It was probably a '50s British Ford. I used to help my Dad change the clevises, lube the bellcranks and adjust the adjusters. That led to an early career as a licensed auto tech in two countries. Now who would even consider comparing a drum braked, rod operated braking system to a disc brake hydraulic one?

    I've extensively tested Avid cable discs and many other hydraulic systems not to mention Formula cable discs in my "research" for the implementation, writing and editing of our Disc Brake FAQ at the top right of this page. I said at the time and I'll say it now after having tested, owned and used many disc braking systems over the past six years - the Avid cable disc is at least as powerful as the most powerful hydraulic xc disc setup I've tested and more powerful than most. That's my findings and opinion.

    BTW - I use hydraulic brakes.

    BTW² - I am "older". I'm 57. But that's relative.

    Mike T. (mcm # 717 & FOG)
    Mike - Thanks for your "opinion". Fortunately there are differing opinions, or this would be a rather boring forum. Maybe when you're older and wiser you'll change your mind . Good luck. - Dave

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    I think any of the "kids" should have their messages verified for content by the older group..say 55 plus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    I'm pulling up a chair for when Shiggy comes along and has his way with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lebikerboy
    I think any of the "kids" should have their messages verified for content by the older group..say 55 plus.
    That lets Shiggy out then. He's in the former group.
    Mike The Bike's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

  12. #12
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    I haven't used hydros yet, but my understanding is that they are easier to modulate, meaning less unintentional lockups.

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    What about the IRD Dual-Bangers? I hear reviews that they are actually BETTER than Avids because the dual bangers push both pads into the rotor instead of one pad pushing the rotor into the other pad.
    My Bike: '96 Gary Fisher Aquila
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  14. #14
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    Using Avid BB7s? Need an adjustement?

    1) Place fingers on red dial located on caliper.
    2) Turn dial.
    3) Ride bike and be happy
    The more complicated it is, the more that can go wrong.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipAllen
    Using Avid BB7s? Need an adjustement?

    1) Place fingers on red dial located on caliper.
    2) Turn dial.
    3) Ride bike and be happy
    Using Hydros ? Need and adjustement?

    1)Tear hair out
    2)Scream abuse at anyone near you from frustration
    3)Continue with adjustment procedure

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ickyickyptngzutboing
    ...The only difference that I keep hearing brought up is that the Avid BB7's don't have the modulation of hydraulics--you have to pull further and harder to get the full power from mech. brakes (Hydros' power arrives almost 'instantaneously'--they're really sensitive)
    BULL-PLOP!

    I have used Avid BB brakes since the day they hit the market. They have plenty of power. Plenty of modulation. And need very little effort at the lever.

    They are THE most adjustable brake available and can be setup to work and feel any way the rider prefers, especially when used with Avid Speed Dial levers.

    Because of the adjustability it is also fairly easy to do a poor setup on the Avids. If you tried a set and thought they lacked power or modulation it was either a cr@p setup or the rider prefers them adjusted differently than you.

    I have had friends ride my bike and say the brakes lack power. I make a 2-second adjustment and have them try it again and they are tossed over the bars.

    For me modulation has as much or more to do with lever effort and lever position as anything. I want a very light lever and a brake that works with the very close to the bar. This gives me the best control of the lever and hence the best modulation. I still have power. If I have the lever contact point far from the bar the brakes become grabby.

    I have ridden hydro discs. They work well. But none can be adjusted to my liking and have the light lever feel I want.

    Enough?
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strafer
    I haven't used hydros yet, but my understanding is that they are easier to modulate, meaning less unintentional lockups.
    That is not what I think of as modulation. Modulation is how easy it is to control and change the braking force whether you are near the point of lockup or not.
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  18. #18
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    "They are THE most adjustable brake available"

    Shiggy - that is VERY debateable. Avid isn't the best IMHO.
    My Bike: '96 Gary Fisher Aquila
    My Blog: http://http://kona0197.wordpress.com/

  19. #19
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    It's been suggested that some mechanicals are as powerful as hydraulics. For those of us who have had both, this is hard to understand. From a racers perspective, can you give us your opinion. Thanks. - Dave
    Last edited by dnpeters; 04-19-2005 at 05:06 AM.

  20. #20
    KITB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    That's not true. They're one of, if not the most powerful xc BRAKES I've tested or owned. Check the spelling of that word in upper case. Power is not dependent on the method of force transmission.

    Mike T. (mcm # 717 & FOG)
    Did you win the spelling bee when you were a kid? LOL, this is an internet forum, not an English class.

  21. #21
    nnn
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    Quote Originally Posted by KITB
    Did you win the spelling bee when you were a kid? LOL, this is an internet forum, not an English class.
    Being pedantic is one thing, but it gets irritating trying to read what people write wen dey star wraiting liek dis Or wrItE wIth All thE vOwEls In UppEr cAsE etc etc you get my point

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197
    "They are THE most adjustable brake available"

    Shiggy - that is VERY debateable. Avid isn't the best IMHO.
    In that case: In your opinion, which set of disc brakes are more adjustable and why? How do they compare performance-wise to the Avids?
    [SIZE=1]Don't believe everything that you think.[/SIZE]

  23. #23
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    Well... I think these brakes are just as adjustable and MORE powerful.

    Avid Juicy 7
    Hayes El Camino
    IRD Dual Bangers
    My Bike: '96 Gary Fisher Aquila
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  24. #24
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    picking nits

    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197
    Well... I think these brakes are just as adjustable and MORE powerful.
    Avid Juicy 7
    Hayes El Camino
    IRD Dual Bangers
    I do not think the Juicy 7 is any more powerful than the Avid mechanical discs. I own both and honestly I prefer the mechanicals.

    Technically, since the pads on the J7 are self adjusting, it actually has less adjustments than the Avid mechanicals.

    How long have you ridden the El Caminos and IRDs? Are you finding them to be more powerful than the Avid mechanicals?
    [SIZE=1]Don't believe everything that you think.[/SIZE]

  25. #25
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    Well I don't have any ride time on the El Camino or the IRD brakes. I based my choices on the reviews of MBA and word of mouth from friends. I do have a fair amount of ride time with the Juicy 7 brakes.

    I would think the IRD brakes would be more powerful because they push both pads into the rotor instead of just pushing ONE pad into the rotor and pushing the rotor into the other pad.

    I guess I just don't like Avid mech brakes. They are a pain to set up. But I guess that is due to the fact when I set them up on a friends bike he has lost all the mounting washers and concave/convex washers and he runs 8" rotors while using 6 inch rotor adapters. So I get fusterated trying to set them up.

    Perhaps if I was to buy a new set with all the proper hardware my opinion would change.

    By that as it may I'm going to quit argueing now.
    My Bike: '96 Gary Fisher Aquila
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