• 12-15-2011
    ianaprilia
    BrakeForce One, new player in town
    Don't know if it already got posted, but overhere in Europe, there's a new player in Braketown, BrakeForce One, German durability with super looks and a low weight of 205 gr ( without discs )...
    Higher brake force due to brakeforce multiplier in the caliper.
    Some pics :

    in the box

    2 finger brakelever, everything is injection moulded carbonfibre, contactpoint between discs and brakepads can be set on the brakelever. Closed oilsystem without expansion chamber...

    disc caliper, anodised aluminium, inserts are injection moulded carbonfibre

    possible colours are silver, red, black and orange...

    :thumbsup:
  • 12-15-2011
    jsilva
    And how do they work?
  • 12-15-2011
    AZ
    And what is a "Brake force multiplier"?
  • 12-15-2011
    womble
    Well, they look pretty.

    I'm fairly sure that carbon fibre can't be injection molded though- I mean, the stuff comes in a woven cloth. It looks more like some kind of plastic (not necessarily a bad thing).
  • 12-15-2011
    jimc101
    Magura MT8's have injection moulded carbon fiber parts, so no reason that BrakForce One's parts aren't.
  • 12-15-2011
    e-luder
    its fancy plastic. Calipers look hot.
  • 12-15-2011
    vk45de
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    And what is a "Brake force multiplier"?

    You see where the hose connects to the caliper... the fitting looks a bit big. I would assume that's a piston pushing on a smaller MC that to create higher pressures on the caliper pistons.
  • 12-15-2011
    ianaprilia
    I've had the change to test them end they do work and with only one finger required...
    A little explanation, the brake multiplier is a special, patented system where the special valve does its work...


    When first pressing the lever, the valve stays closed and the brakepads are moved against the discs...

    When making contact with the disc, the valve opens and the brakforce is doubled...( simply put )

    U need 5 minutes to get used to the short brakelever, U no longer have irritating noises of the pads rubbing against the discs, since the contact point is adjustable, this makes an easy compensation, if necessary, should the oil expand due to the temperature... but the most demanding situations have been tested and the difference would only be a fraction of a mm in brakepad movement...
    Hope U guys understand what I'm trying to explain...

    There is nothing plastic about it, all the non anodised black parts on the brakes ( except the hoses ) are carbonfibre. They use mineral oil. And U should certainly compare the BrakeForce One to the Magura MT8 brakes...
    I should know, I import the stuff into Belgium :)
  • 12-15-2011
    AZ
    Is there a U.S. distributor?
  • 12-15-2011
    ianaprilia
    not to my knowledge, lot's of other distributors have already signed in... even up to Thailand,...
    for those interested, as long as there is no distributor for the US, I could ship overseas...
    First batch is coming in next week...
  • 12-15-2011
    broomhandle
    is there a review about them? anything to compare too? and what is the cost?
  • 12-15-2011
    Fix the Spade
    Serious question, if it's a closed system how does it deal with heat build up on really long downhills (as in 20min + continuous descent). I had a set of closed systems brake way back in the early 2000s and they were hateful things, binding up at high temps.

    They'll have convince people they're better than open systems to take off. Although I hope they becausethose things are beautifully made, those carbon moulded levers look great.
  • 12-15-2011
    womble
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jimc101 View Post
    Magura MT8's have injection moulded carbon fiber parts, so no reason that BrakForce One's parts aren't.

    Again- how can you injection mold CF? It comes in a woven cloth.

    The photos look more like injection molded plastic, maybe it has short strands of reinforcing fibres in it but it doesn't look like a pure CF part.

    Edit: Just having Googled around for this product, it does appear that it's a CF reinforced plastic. I suspect the OP just had a translation hiccup when doing his writeup.
  • 12-16-2011
    zahgurim
    ^ injection molding of carbon fiber is a popular process. It's basically using a carbon fiber slurry in molds instead of injection molded plastic. Don't be confused just because it doesn't have the visual of a 3K weave...

    These brakes look very interesting. I'd love to try a set out.
  • 12-16-2011
    Fix the Spade
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by womble View Post
    Again- how can you injection mold CF? It comes in a woven cloth.

    You can get CF as raw fibres and as 'bulk' fibres (think smashed spaghetti) as well, my bet is that they're made of the latter injection moulded with resin.
  • 12-16-2011
    MirFlash
    Prices are stiff, market price of MT8 in EU is around 525-550 EUR
    BFO's are going for +/- 800 EUR a set (discs included) for the wealthy bikers there is even a lighter (or is it the wallet that gets even lighter) tuned version from Tune is going for 900-ish without nothing, no discs no adapter.

    Even if they are good, there is something like a brain up there saying too much is simply too much.
    Not for me.
  • 12-16-2011
    mimi1885
    For that price it's definitely look cheesy, and 205g without rotor is not that light many current brake at half the price is in that weight range. Hopefully, the street price will be much lower.
  • 12-21-2011
    jimc101
    Not sure what the issue with prices is (yes they are expensive), they are premium German products, you will pay similar for Acros or Tune parts or any other Made in Germany product Magura's aren't cheap.

    When the prototypes came out back in September, the covererage was positive at the time
  • 12-22-2011
    juancancook
    OK, so a caliper with an additional master cylinder piston (that in itself looks like it borrowed an idea from the Prime), and a brake whose bite point will change as the brake heats up and cools down (stated in post #10 in this thread) as it doesn't have a reservoir, and a price that makes Hope look affordable. I'm not normally a negative Ned, but nooooo thanks. Heck, even the original Hopes had at least a manually adjustable reservoir on em. I foresee this going the way the Brembo MTB brake did....
  • 12-22-2011
    Joules
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jimc101 View Post
    Not sure what the issue with prices is (yes they are expensive), they are premium German products, you will pay similar for Acros or Tune parts or any other Made in Germany product Magura's aren't cheap.

    When the prototypes came out back in September, the covererage was positive at the time

    Does anyone pay SRP for maguras? Or even half? I have 4 sets of Louises, I think I paid $220 for the most expensive set, all bought new.
    I guess euro prices also include the ridiculous VAT.


    I don't know... a closed/non reservoir disc... I suppose that's fine, so long as you aren't actually braking for more than a couple seconds at a time. There is probably a reason all the closed discs disappeared from the market a while ago
    Sounds like the target audience is people that like hanging bikes on scales, but don't actually ride. Yeah, sure, there is a forum for them on here.. On the other hand, MT8s weigh about the same (or even a couple grams less claimed) and cost about 1/3. Maybe US street prices will be more reasonable.
  • 12-22-2011
    92gli
    Has anyone told Magura that this company has used 90% of their design language ? Is this really legal in germany ? Or is Magura invested in this company ?
  • 12-22-2011
    MirFlash
    Magura also sells their injection moulding technology expertise and produce for other parties !!

    Have no idea in this case who is producing for BFO but it is a known fact, it is a german company with knowledge in carbon moulding.

    On the other hand, Magura is maybe also a buyer/user of other german expertise.

    PS : BFO resides <50 km from Magura Injection Moulding Dept :D
  • 12-23-2011
    R+P+K
    Quick video of the brakes on a bike - Brake Force One - Tune Video - Pinkbike.com

    EDIT: actually, there are a few better quality (official) vids on Vimeo as well if you google them.
  • 12-24-2011
    ianaprilia
    well, the problem with the heat is not really an issue, due to the special valve it's possible to have a bigger initial gap between brakepads and disc in comparison with other brakes, and thanks to the bigger diameter of the oil channels, the oil displacement due to extreme temperature will only have a very limited brakepad displacement ( test showed only 0.3 mm decrease in brakepad distance in the worst case ) .... and even if the gap is to small and there would be friction due to the temperature, U can easily increase that gap with a fraction to compensate for heat influences...
    there are already test reports of different European magazines, like German " Bike Magazin" , but as up to now not yet in English...
  • 05-01-2012
    AC/BC
    Anyone have these? I'm looking for opinions on the performance.
  • 05-02-2012
    ianaprilia
    I have them on two bikes, but since I'm the Belgian importer my opinion is a little biased...
    They had some problems in the beginning, mainly due to a bad brakepad compound, but that's sorted aswell now.
    I have a couple of competition riders that use them and they compare the brakeforce with the most powerful brakesystems available, but with BFO brakes U can generate the same force with only 1 finger without any problems, U really have way more pad clearance compared to all the other brands.
    All that for a low weight and in my opinion, super looks...
    Will be glad to answer all your questions...
    hip-c.be - Home
  • 05-02-2012
    Stevoo
    1) Are the calipers designed to handle sintered metal pads? What I mean by that is the fluid insulated from the massive heat transfer that sintered metal pads generate which can boil the fluid in the caliper.
    Reason I ask is that I like sintered metal pads for many reasons and would like to be able to run them. Certainly a big decision point for me.

    2) From a power and heat dissipation standpoint how do these brakes compare to a DH brake like a Shimano Saint or a Hope V2? Again, another decision point for me as I heat soak the snot out of brakes.

    3) Cost of replacement brake pads? They are new so I would imagine there is no aftermarket availability just yet so the OEM pad replacement cost is a factor for now.

    If you have some side by side tests that show they are better than the current DH brakes and can run sintered pads I am certainly interested.
  • 05-02-2012
    006_007
    huh, i forgot to keep my eyes open for these guys....have not really seen a lot of their product out (in north america) yet. Looks like a decent product.....
  • 05-03-2012
    ianaprilia

    Heat dissipation isn't a problem if U see what kind of tests they have performed, due to the oil channels having a bigger diameter then other brakesystems and the fact that U can easily adjust the brake point while riding...
    World of mountainbiking, a German magazine, performed a big test of different brakesystems, including the V2 and many others and the BFO brake was the most powerful brake they tested. They tested in laboratory, but also a 2,4 km steep decent on asphalt, braking at different speeds and measuring the deceleration rate and handpower needed to achieve that deceleration. BFO was the leader with the lowest amount of handpower needed to get the biggest deceleration.
    O2 bikers in Belgium just performed a testride and logterm test and they found the brakes to be the most powerful, but also most progressive ( inexpected ) system they have tested upto this moment. They said it was a perfect brake system for the demanding endurorider looking for a powerful brake and exclusivity.
    Negative points that come up are the price and that U really need to take some time to adapt to the different brakefeeling compared to other brakes, this brake does not give U an ON/OFF feeling when U pull the lever, U can easily go in steep decents without running out of stopping power, if U want more, just pull a little bit harder on the lever...
    Some people need some getting used to the one-finger brake lever aswell, as did I...
    For people interested in trying them out, they can be delivered to the US for about 600 euros, discs included...

    Sintered pads are not available at BFO but since the pads are the same model as Magura Marta , there is plenty availability from other brands like BBB, Swisstop, EBC...
  • 05-03-2012
    ianaprilia
    the sintered pads are no problem , BrakeForceOne told me today.
    I have different testfiles, but they are pdf files, if anyone knows how to get them on here , while still being readabel please let me know, or I'll email the pdf's ...
  • 05-03-2012
    006_007
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ianaprilia View Post
    ..
    For people interested in trying them out, they can be delivered to the US for about 600 euros, discs included...
    ..

    Holy carp, 600 Euros is a whole bunch of Canadian dollars - This makes the new Maguras look cheap in comparison!

    Not sure that is a "try em out and see" kinda price :eekster:
  • 05-03-2012
    ianaprilia
    understand your opinion, but normal price for a set of BFO brakes is 780 euro without discs and shipping... compared to that price, the price I mentioned is a sweeter deal...
  • 05-04-2012
    Warp
    How do they compensate for brake pad wear?

    Another adjustment you have to make yourself?

    The booster idea is brilliant, though.
  • 05-04-2012
    ianaprilia
    brake pad wear is easily compensated (manually ) by turning the little wheel on the brake lever, when U put in new pads, u just turn it completely back in the other direction.
    since it's a closed system when u turn on the little screw on the lever, U push the brake pads inward or pull them outward. The pistons are magnetic and pull the pads out...
  • 05-04-2012
    006_007
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ianaprilia View Post
    understand your opinion, but normal price for a set of BFO brakes is 780 euro without discs and shipping... compared to that price, the price I mentioned is a sweeter deal...

    Such a shame - with pricing like that they are going to have the same fate that brembo did when they "attempted" to enter the market with similar priced product.

    Edit - oops, someone already made the brembo comment back in December.....my bad :madman:

    If anyone has a set of these up here in Whistler I will buy you a beer if you let me take a look at em closeup (two beer for a parking lot test ride lol)
  • 05-04-2012
    craigsj
    I'm not sure why there's a reason to be impressed with this. The "Brake force multiplier" might be new to bicycle brakes but it's certainly not new to hydraulic systems or brakes generally. It's also not clear that it offers anything that servo-wave doesn't as they both vary the leverage. Absent that, these brakes seem overly expensive, not particularly light, and not self-adjusting. The light effort seems nice, but too light is not desirable anyway.
  • 07-02-2012
    ianaprilia
    to revive the thread...
    Are there already some people over in the US that have tried them or not?
    Discussions are easy, but trying them out is the only way...
    If there are some people interested to do so, sent me a private message, I m willing to make a very special deal...
    :thumbsup:
  • 07-02-2012
    mazspeed
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ianaprilia View Post

    Heat dissipation isn't a problem if U see what kind of tests they have performed, due to the oil channels having a bigger diameter then other brakesystems and the fact that U can easily adjust the brake point while riding...
    World of mountainbiking, a German magazine, performed a big test of different brakesystems, including the V2 and many others and the BFO brake was the most powerful brake they tested. They tested in laboratory, but also a 2,4 km steep decent on asphalt, braking at different speeds and measuring the deceleration rate and handpower needed to achieve that deceleration. BFO was the leader with the lowest amount of handpower needed to get the biggest deceleration.
    O2 bikers in Belgium just performed a testride and logterm test and they found the brakes to be the most powerful, but also most progressive ( inexpected ) system they have tested upto this moment. They said it was a perfect brake system for the demanding endurorider looking for a powerful brake and exclusivity.
    Negative points that come up are the price and that U really need to take some time to adapt to the different brakefeeling compared to other brakes, this brake does not give U an ON/OFF feeling when U pull the lever, U can easily go in steep decents without running out of stopping power, if U want more, just pull a little bit harder on the lever...
    Some people need some getting used to the one-finger brake lever aswell, as did I...
    For people interested in trying them out, they can be delivered to the US for about 600 euros, discs included...

    Sintered pads are not available at BFO but since the pads are the same model as Magura Marta , there is plenty availability from other brands like BBB, Swisstop, EBC...

    Do you have any English links to back this up? I for one would like to see some reviews on your claims. Seems like the price is very high for something that has yet to be proved. If I am going to buy something like this, at this price, you better be sure I want proof that it is as claimed.
  • 07-08-2012
    MirFlash
    If you read german, will be easier to make up your mind.
  • 07-08-2012
    mazspeed
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MirFlash View Post
    If you read german, will be easier to make up your mind.

    What does that have to do with anything, and why did you send me a private message bragging about these brakes?
    I don't like spam, so don't spam the forums and people's e-mails with this stuff.
  • 07-08-2012
    the-one1
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MirFlash View Post
    If you read german, will be easier to make up your mind.

    True. So true. If anyone reads German, it's always easier to make up their mind.
    One time I was in line at a fast food restaurant and was having a hard time deciding what I wanted to eat. I kept letting people pass me because I was so cornfused. Luckily they had a German menu. One glance and my mind was made up. Silly English menu, so hard to understand and make up one's mind. Whew!
  • 07-12-2012
    MirFlash
    As for the german part : Brakeforce One - MTB-News.de | IBC Mountainbike Forum

    32 pages BFO related, enjoy
  • 07-12-2012
    CreativeEdge
    would love to have a set, but the price is a bit steep..
  • 07-12-2012
    mojojojoaf
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by the-one1 View Post
    True. So true. If anyone reads German, it's always easier to make up their mind.
    One time I was in line at a fast food restaurant and was having a hard time deciding what I wanted to eat. I kept letting people pass me because I was so cornfused. Luckily they had a German menu. One glance and my mind was made up. Silly English menu, so hard to understand and make up one's mind. Whew!

    Dude that was funny.
  • 07-12-2012
    007
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MirFlash View Post
    As for the german part : Brakeforce One - MTB-News.de | IBC Mountainbike Forum

    32 pages BFO related, enjoy

    This is a pretty comical read with google translate.

    Based on what's been stated above - particularly about a) one finger braking, b) power and c) modulation - I fail to see what this system has to offer above and beyond other products from Hope, Formula and hell, even Shimano now.

    Other than a $700 price tag of course . . . for that much, I can get a set of Hope's and have enough left for a good time at the strip club.
  • 07-12-2012
    mazspeed
    Ok, now I am pissed!
    To MirFlash. I have asked you not to message me and not only have you kept messaging me, you don't want to stop, no matter how much I ask you too. What part of "Don't message me anymore" do you not understand??


    You don't seem to want to stop, so maybe doing this in public is the only way to embarrass you enough to make you stop. Please PISS OFF!
    Sorry to all who had to see this. Also is there an ignore feature with this site? Thanks and sorry.

    Mike
  • 07-12-2012
    the-one1
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mazspeed View Post
    Ok, now I am pissed!
    To MirFlash. I have asked you not to message me and not only have you kept messaging me, you don't want to stop, no matter how much I ask you too. What part of "Don't message me anymore" do you not understand??


    You don't seem to want to stop, so maybe doing this in public is the only way to embarrass you enough to make you stop. Please PISS OFF!
    Sorry to all who had to see this. Also is there an ignore feature with this site? Thanks and sorry.

    Mike

    Report it to the mods that he is harassing you. They will put a stop to it.
  • 07-12-2012
    007
    . . . and there is an ignore function. I know quite certainly there's at least one member here who has me on their "Ignore" list! :thumbsup:
  • 07-12-2012
    mazspeed
    Thanks guys, I will do both. Sorry for the online rant.
  • 07-15-2012
    ianaprilia
    for the guys that are interested in knowing more or perhaps that are wanting to buy them but found the price to steep, send me a pm, I will gladly help U out and will make U a special price...
    English articles I could find:

    Meet Brake Force One, a German approach to how you stop - Bike Rumor

    Riva Bike Festival 2012: Magura, Brake Force One and Fox

    Have fun reading...
    :thumbsup: