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  1. #51
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    I'm not going to lie, I am very, very intrigued for sure. But there is zero chance of my buying these without a live demo. There's just a few things that I'm uncertain about that can only be addressed by trying them out. For me, there's no more important part of a bike than the brakes and if a system works the way I want, I have no problem paying for it. I currently run Hope's and they were not cheap.

    a) the ergonomics of the lever may or may not work for me.

    b) I want to experience first hand this "lever feel" that is so different from traditional systems. All the articles I've read about these say the same thing . . . that it will take time to adjust.

    Before I'd even think of dropping $500 for a set (is it $500 a set or $500 a piece?), I'd need a demo first (unless a free product were available
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  2. #52
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    I could not agree more 007

  3. #53
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    finished the Salzkammergut tropy (Race in the Alps) with these brakes.
    On a fatbike ! I love the power and the modulation of these brakes

  4. #54
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    from what I hear, it will still take a while for these brakes to find a US ien mporter...

    The lever feel that most riders are used to is a hard stop when the pads make contact with the discs, pulling further will only bend the brake lever...
    With the BFO brakes U can still pull the lever further, wich will only increase the oilpressure, nothing more, ( at first some describe this as a spungy feeling brake, but there is nothing spungy about the brake power ) but like with other brakes, closed is closed and U are braking hard, there is just no need to pull hard on the lever, or engage a second or more fingers to finnaly stop the bike like on other systems...

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianaprilia View Post
    The lever feel that most riders are used to is a hard stop when the pads make contact with the discs, pulling further will only bend the brake lever...
    With the BFO brakes U can still pull the lever further, wich will only increase the oilpressure, nothing more, ( at first some describe this as a spungy feeling brake, but there is nothing spungy about the brake power ) but like with other brakes, closed is closed and U are braking hard, there is just no need to pull hard on the lever, or engage a second or more fingers to finnaly stop the bike like on other systems...
    Perhaps this is a case of "lost in translation" but your description of how the BFO brakes work is exactly how every other system I have used works (e.g., pulling harder generates more pressure which translates to more braking power. Its called modulation). I've never run a hydraulic brake that makes a hard stop when the pads contact the disc or the brake lever bending. I'm not a fluid engineer, however, I do understand hydraulics and what you describe above about the hard stop is exactly how I would envision a closed system working.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  6. #56
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    I was left wanting more details about lever feel as well. I did pick up on a few random remarks here-

    Riva Bike Festival 2012: Magura, Brake Force One and Fox


    The modulation is more like car brakes, contrary to the usual force-dependent modulation as with bicycle discs.

    The modulation is performed by the lever throw and not the finger force…

    Unlike many other testers with whom we talked, we found the path-dependent braking feel is something we need time to get used to.


    Speculative- I think the lever would feel less defined, like trying to identify the exact moment the rotors would make contact on a boost assisted auto and would be perceived as squishy feeling compared to other modern bicycle disc brake offerings.

    I believe I am going to buy a set, nothing ventured-nothing gained. Once I get my hands on these you’re welcome to give em a whirl 007 as I believe we are pretty close in proximity to one another

  7. #57
    007
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    Hey that'd be cool. I'm definitely interested. Keep me posted!
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    I believe I am going to buy a set, nothing ventured-nothing gained. Once I get my hands on these you’re welcome to give em a whirl 007 as I believe we are pretty close in proximity to one another
    at this moment there is a set of BFO brakes shipped to Jon, so he'll be the first to give them a try, normally, by the end of the week, he should have them...


  9. #59
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    Well, they're here and installed on my bike. I do intend to post my impressions, but for now here are a couple pics-
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails BrakeForce One, new player in town-bfolever.jpg  

    BrakeForce One, new player in town-bforearcaliper.jpg  


  10. #60
    007
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    How are the ergonomics on the lever so far? How was installation? What's the craftsmanship and finishing like?

    After you've had some time on them, I'd love to take you up on the in-person demo.

    The caliper sure looks great . . . the lever looks uber cheap.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    How are the ergonomics on the lever so far? How was installation? What's the craftsmanship and finishing like?
    1) I didn’t think I would like the lever shape, but I kinda do, certainly better for me than the Marta SL levers.

    2) The levers would not fit either set of my bars. I had to (carefully) remove a small amount of material to fit them to the contour of my bars, so that sucked. The BFO caliper adapters have a wider cross section that misaligned the caliper in relation to the rotor, my old Avid adapters work perfectly.

    3) Craftsmanship and finishing (other than the adapters) get high marks.

    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    After you've had some time on them, I'd love to take you up on the in-person demo.
    Absolutely, I would appreciate another’s opinion of these. I ride every Sunday unless something comes up. I aim to hit Santiago Oaks this coming Sunday. Where do you typically ride?

    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    The caliper sure looks great . . . the lever looks uber cheap.
    Your last sentence is an accurate summarization of my overall first hand impression of the BFO‘s.

  12. #62
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    I've had these bled to ensure they function as intended. In use they do supply ample stopping power while applied with reasonably light force with a single digit.

    I do find that heat does tend to draw the pads in closer to the rotors, but not terribly so, just enough to be audible. I have not been on any long, lift assisted downhill runs, but I have hit the brakes hard enough to actually discolor the rear rotor so there was definately some heat.

    I like the overall feel. I imagine some would find them a bit squishy, but to me they offer more brake control as I am less apt to lock up due to how gradual the force can be applied. The power is definately there when needed, but are not at all touchy.

    I like that they use the same pads as Magura Marta's. makes it easy to source replacements and ensures I will be able to do so for the foreseeable future.

    My number one gripe is the lack of pad retraction and lever return. Bleeding did not solve for my having to manualy push the levers back out a bit to fully return the levers and thus retract the brake pads. ianaprilia tells me this is not the case with any he has experienced, but all I can report on is this particular set and my experience. This bothers me a lot as one of the key features of the BFO's according to their site is supposed to be
    ■No more grinding and squeaking brakes as the pads are actively retracted to create a true air gap
    Overall I like the brakes, but they are by no means mind blowing or game changing.

    It will be interesting to get anothers impression of these. 007, your welcome anytime to give these a try.

  13. #63
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    I have been using the BFO's on my old MTB with great satisfaction (using 160/160mm discs). So far, they worked as expected without any problems.

    They will in the near future be installed on my fatbike using 180/180 discs (more weight to be stopped).

    H.D

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    I've had these bled to ensure they function as intended. In use they do supply ample stopping power while applied with reasonably light force with a single digit.

    I do find that heat does tend to draw the pads in closer to the rotors, but not terribly so, just enough to be audible. I have not been on any long, lift assisted downhill runs, but I have hit the brakes hard enough to actually discolor the rear rotor so there was definately some heat.

    I like the overall feel. I imagine some would find them a bit squishy, but to me they offer more brake control as I am less apt to lock up due to how gradual the force can be applied. The power is definately there when needed, but are not at all touchy.

    I like that they use the same pads as Magura Marta's. makes it easy to source replacements and ensures I will be able to do so for the foreseeable future.

    My number one gripe is the lack of pad retraction and lever return. Bleeding did not solve for my having to manualy push the levers back out a bit to fully return the levers and thus retract the brake pads. ianaprilia tells me this is not the case with any he has experienced, but all I can report on is this particular set and my experience. This bothers me a lot as one of the key features of the BFO's according to their site is supposed to be

    Overall I like the brakes, but they are by no means mind blowing or game changing.

    It will be interesting to get anothers impression of these. 007, your welcome anytime to give these a try.
    I've been curious how you're getting on with these . . . interesting that the pads aren't retracting, and I suspect that this is due do the closed nature of the system. I'm also curious how they will react to changes in ambient temperatures. Its been hot lately, so maybe it will be better once it cools down??

    I'm still interested in checking them out. I'm out of commission for like 2 weeks right now though
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    I am not certain if the lack of full pad retraction can be contributed to their being a closed system or even if this is just my particular set of brakes.

    HDTVdevil, do you experience any issues with the brake levers not fully returning on their own?

    From what I understand the calipers are actively retracted through the use of an internal spring, so the fluid should be pushed back through the system.

    One thought that has crossed my mind is that the booster valve will close after pressure is released from the lever, thereby reducing the effective area through which the fluid can return. Seems like this would offer some resistance to the calipers as the springs try to pull the pistons back.

    Well 007, the offer is open when you're ready. I hope the hold up is your bike and not your health.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    I am not certain if the lack of full pad retraction can be contributed to their being a closed system or even if this is just my particular set of brakes.

    HDTVdevil, do you experience any issues with the brake levers not fully returning on their own?

    From what I understand the calipers are actively retracted through the use of an internal spring, so the fluid should be pushed back through the system.

    One thought that has crossed my mind is that the booster valve will close after pressure is released from the lever, thereby reducing the effective area through which the fluid can return. Seems like this would offer some resistance to the calipers as the springs try to pull the pistons back.

    Well 007, the offer is open when you're ready. I hope the hold up is your bike and not your health.
    Yes, levers only come back 90 to 95% of the way but I didn't notice it impacting performance in any way.

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

  17. #67
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    Hi Jon,
    I went to Eurobike last friday and spoke to the guys of BFO there, discussing a little bit your issue...
    They said they encountered several complaints of that kind and mostly they where due to wrong setup of the brakelever, either that they are too far out or too far in ( set up with the pad distance set screw and not with the little lever setup screw ), please check if this could be the case, also be sure that when U bleed the brakes, U follow the procedure in the manual, with the pad distance screw completely out, so that the piston that moves in and out of the brake cilinder is flush with the sides of the housing ( this U can do by pushing the brakepads gently out, if they are completely out, the piston should be flush and the set screw of the pad distance should not be loose and touch the piston membrane. Otherwise it could be that U don't have enough oil in the system and this would certainly limit your setup possibilities.
    Perhaps return the tune settings to the begin and check if everything checks out
    Let me know if U understand what I mean, otherwise I ll try to make some pictures to help u...
    greetz

  18. #68
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    I appreciate your advice and willingness to help Ian,

    I paid my local bike shop to perform the bleed and was told he had followed the bleed procedure outlined by the manual to the letter.

    I understand what you are saying about the pad distance set screw. It sounds like some adjust their levers so as to be able to push the lever open enough to disengage the piston actuator rod from the master cylinder piston. On mine pushing the lever open does retract the pads slightly so it is not simply the lever adjustment but the caliper fails to cause the master cylinder piston to fully return. I will double check that the system has adequate fluid volume.

    What I experience is this adjustment changes as the brakes warm and must be backed off due to heat soak and retightened as they cool. I do not see how this can be avoided with this system as there is no mechanism through which to compensate for fluid expansion.

    Did I make an accurate description of how the booster valve reacts as the lever is released? I can't help but think a closed system with a booster valve would benefit from being set up as a recirculating system having a check valve and a dedicated return line to introduce cooler fluid into the caliper with every lever actuation and bypass the booster valve for stronger fluid return line pressure.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    I can't help but think a closed system with a booster valve would benefit from being set up as a recirculating system having a check valve and a dedicated return line to introduce cooler fluid into the caliper with every lever actuation and bypass the booster valve for stronger fluid return line pressure.
    Better yet... make it an open system with a booster (just like any car on the road).
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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post
    Better yet... make it an open system with a booster (just like any car on the road).
    Actually, I've only ever seen a recirculating set up outfitted for open systems in automotive race applications.

    I'm not against having a lever with a reservoir, I just don't see BFO re-tooling to make it happen and was hoping to devise a way to improve on the performance of what I got now that the money is already spent.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    I'm not against having a lever with a reservoir, I just don't see BFO re-tooling to make it happen and was hoping to devise a way to improve on the performance of what I got now that the money is already spent.
    Yeah, agreed. But they have to retool for the changes you mention anyways.

    It's natural evolution, in turn they will have to produce certain improvements/updates on their brake and they can introduce whatever changes they decide.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post
    Yeah, agreed. But they have to retool for the changes you mention anyways.

    It's natural evolution, in turn they will have to produce certain improvements/updates on their brake and they can introduce whatever changes they decide.
    I was just going to either source or make a couple small reverse flow check valves and run a separate return line connecting the caliper and lever bleed ports if it came down to it. I figure if I can't tune these to function to my satisfaction I'm just going to buy some Saints anyway, so what's the harm in trying to tweek them if I determine them as a loss.

    It would be great if BFO would continue to innovate and refine these brakes, the potential is there. I am unsure they would give up on the closed system as one of their main claims to fame as it stands is being the lightest. These are saving all the weight at the lever. I would prefer the added weight in trade for sturdier feeling levers with a reservoir, I just think BFO would be concerned about loosing sales if they did so.

  23. #73
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    Hopefully you don't ditch em' before I get a chance to try em!
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    Hopefully you don't ditch em' before I get a chance to try em!
    After the coin I dropped I'm in no rush to do it soon, although I am tempted to but an XTR m985 lever to see if they might jive with these awesome calipers.

    That's what sucks about bike components, all I have to know is piston diameters to calculate area so as to match masters and slaves to acheive the correct amount of force multiplication. That info is all a big hush, hush secret with bicycle brakes

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    That's what sucks about bike components, all I have to know is piston diameters to calculate area so as to match masters and slaves to acheive the correct amount of force multiplication. That info is all a big hush, hush secret with bicycle brakes
    Magura used to publish this info a while ago...

    Before their MT series, their slaves were 22mm (marta and louise) and the masters were something like 11mm (depending on model). I can dig up that info later.

    Now... some people had fitted Shimano levers to Magura calipers, so they should be in the ballpark.

    I don't know about other systems. There may be numbers published here and there.
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