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  1. #1
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    Brake cables with full length liner?

    Are there brake cables out there with full length linings? I looks like Jagwire might but I'm not sure. My new frame has cable stops on the top tube, so I'd like some way to keep the system sealed from dirt and water.

    I don't want to go the route of Nokon or Aztec powerlines.

  2. #2
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    Maybe you'd be interested in the Gore RideOn system? A friend of mine used to make his own with some cheap cable liner in standard housing.
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    You know you can lose out by having a longer cable tubing don't you? While such a system keeps the dirt out better what dirt there is has a longer tube in which to be a problem. Exposed cable is friction free - any within the tubing has a significant amount of friction - which is why a front cable brake is so much smoother/easier to pull than a rear one. I'd go for exposed cable any day, even at the expense of mud getting in. You might consider other ways of keeping the cable clean near where it enters the tubing - a bit of tape covering the area or something. Not as elegant of course...
    If you've already considered all this or I've misunderstood what you are proposing just ignore me by the way.

  4. #4
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    Try the service department at your LBS - mine sells Jagwire by the foot.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parrotnot
    You know you can lose out by having a longer cable tubing don't you? While such a system keeps the dirt out better what dirt there is has a longer tube in which to be a problem. Exposed cable is friction free - any within the tubing has a significant amount of friction - which is why a front cable brake is so much smoother/easier to pull than a rear one. I'd go for exposed cable any day, even at the expense of mud getting in. You might consider other ways of keeping the cable clean near where it enters the tubing - a bit of tape covering the area or something. Not as elegant of course...
    If you've already considered all this or I've misunderstood what you are proposing just ignore me by the way.
    the only reason cable stops were invented was to drop weight on road bikes. cable stops have no business being on mountain bikes. it's just another roadie technology that will soon be history.
    your theory of antifriction is misleading. the only areas that cablestops are used on bikes are where there are straight runs of cable, which are not the problem areas for friction. friction is much higher at bends or curves and you can't solve that problem with a cable stop. and any dirt getting in the system at the cable stops will be more of a detriment to the system than the small amount of friction at the straight runs, especially if using teflon coated cables with housing liners. try to find a DH bike that uses cable stops, u probably wont have much luck. alot of manufacturers of XC/AM rigs are starting to move to full cable housing now too. it just makes more sense for a bike that is meant to be ridden in dirty environments.

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    unclekittykiller: that's quite a convincing argument I guess. Perhaps I'm wrong about what I said - making assumptions based on what I've guessed to be the case not what's actually happening. Do you reckon then that it's the fact that there are often something like two tighter bends in the rear cable, and more often something like one gentle one in the front that causes the disparity between how front and rear often behave? I've seen this on lots of bikes.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parrotnot
    unclekittykiller: that's quite a convincing argument I guess. Perhaps I'm wrong about what I said - making assumptions based on what I've guessed to be the case not what's actually happening. Do you reckon then that it's the fact that there are often something like two tighter bends in the rear cable, and more often something like one gentle one in the front that causes the disparity between how front and rear often behave? I've seen this on lots of bikes.
    yeah, the tighter the bend/ curve, the more friction u will get. part of the reason SRAM designed their rear derailleurs with the cable going straight in in lieu of Shimano's old loop design.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CmdrChode
    Try the service department at your LBS - mine sells Jagwire by the foot.
    +1 mine sells Jagwire by the foot also. just bought a few feet the other day.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Are there brake cables out there with full length linings? I looks like Jagwire might but I'm not sure. My new frame has cable stops on the top tube, so I'd like some way to keep the system sealed from dirt and water.

    I don't want to go the route of Nokon or Aztec powerlines.
    i've seen some people drill out the cable stops on their frames in order to run full length housing. probably not a bad idea, but it may reduce the resale value.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parrotnot
    unclekittykiller: that's quite a convincing argument I guess. Perhaps I'm wrong about what I said - making assumptions based on what I've guessed to be the case not what's actually happening. Do you reckon then that it's the fact that there are often something like two tighter bends in the rear cable, and more often something like one gentle one in the front that causes the disparity between how front and rear often behave? I've seen this on lots of bikes.
    the other thing i forgot to mention about cable stops is the amount of sweat that gets into the housings in the hot summer. many times i've replaced a set of cables and upon inspection i've noticed a buildup of salt on the cable. this drastically reduces the effect of the teflon coating and adds alot of friction to the system.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclekittykiller
    the only reason cable stops were invented was to drop weight on road bikes. cable stops have no business being on mountain bikes. it's just another roadie technology that will soon be history.
    your theory of antifriction is misleading. the only areas that cablestops are used on bikes are where there are straight runs of cable, which are not the problem areas for friction. friction is much higher at bends or curves and you can't solve that problem with a cable stop. and any dirt getting in the system at the cable stops will be more of a detriment to the system than the small amount of friction at the straight runs, especially if using teflon coated cables with housing liners. try to find a DH bike that uses cable stops, u probably wont have much luck. alot of manufacturers of XC/AM rigs are starting to move to full cable housing now too. it just makes more sense for a bike that is meant to be ridden in dirty environments.
    No. Brake housing stops were used on early mtbs because the housing of the day were terrible and compressed so much that the brakes barely worked if run full length. The stops and runs of open cable eliminated much of the compression and the brakes worked.

    Road bikes still used full housing runs for years until the weigh factor hit. In fact, I have never had a road bike (~8 over 30 years) with brake housing stops, just guides.

    Now that the housing has improved in the last 10-12 years, full housing usually works better than broken runs because of friction issues. IME the friction is highest at the ends of the housing where the cable enters/exits.

    The bends do not cause much friction but they do add compression problems because of the wound housing opening up on the outside of the bend. When the brake is applied this gap tries to close (make the housing straight) and feels spongy.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Are there brake cables out there with full length linings? I looks like Jagwire might but I'm not sure. My new frame has cable stops on the top tube, so I'd like some way to keep the system sealed from dirt and water.

    I don't want to go the route of Nokon or Aztec powerlines.
    Just run full length housing and bypass the frame's housing stops. You can usually get smoother routing.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    No. Brake housing stops were used on early mtbs because the housing of the day were terrible and compressed so much that the brakes barely worked if run full length. The stops and runs of open cable eliminated much of the compression and the brakes worked.

    Road bikes still used full housing runs for years until the weigh factor hit. In fact, I have never had a road bike (~8 over 30 years) with brake housing stops, just guides.

    Now that the housing has improved in the last 10-12 years, full housing usually works better than broken runs because of friction issues. IME the friction is highest at the ends of the housing where the cable enters/exits.

    The bends do not cause much friction but they do add compression problems because of the wound housing opening up on the outside of the bend. When the brake is applied this gap tries to close (make the housing straight) and feels spongy.
    you're wrong. your theories on cable friction are as useless as your tire reviews.
    Last edited by unclekittykiller; 05-14-2009 at 02:29 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Are there brake cables out there with full length linings? I looks like Jagwire might but I'm not sure. My new frame has cable stops on the top tube, so I'd like some way to keep the system sealed from dirt and water.

    I don't want to go the route of Nokon or Aztec powerlines.
    iLink Alligator housing and liner run full length liner from lever to brake through the cable stops.

    I considered that system, but went with Jagwire Ripcords and ran liner (purchased a black roll of liner online) between the stops for my derailleurs, but was able to run full length housing on the brakes as my Dos Niner frame's cable stops come large enough to run hydraulic cables and it came with shims to run the diameter of cable brake housing I use.

    There are also those little problem solver doo-dads that you screw into your current cable stops and allow you to run full length housing. They also make stick on cable guides that you could use (you'll see one in a photo below). Or you could just use zip-ties or zip-tie with cable housing slot (problem solvers?). Or you could just drill out your cable stop to run full housing. I've done this on 2 frames and it is easy to do and a perfectly fine solution. The Dremel with drill attachment would be best for not scratching your frame during the process, but I used a hand held drill and did just fine.

    But you could run the cable to the stops and use a liner (Jagwire comes in black, clear and colors) between the stops that you seal with heat shrink. Here are a couple of photographs of my liner between stops for the derailleur. It would work the same for a brake run between stops. I still vote for drilling out the stops to run your full cable to the rear. I wouldn't worry about resell value because I would imagine most would be wanting to run disc brakes anyway these days.

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    Last edited by BruceBrown; 05-15-2009 at 06:53 AM.

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