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  1. #1
    gio
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    BB7 v 08XT v Juicy5

    so I have been using this cheap tektro disc brake and the caliper got jam and locked the wheel even I released the lever, which I then fell over the bar in the middle of the road, luckily there was no cars coming.
    Now I need to get some new brakes, I have only tried mechanical in the past, and I heard BB7 is good for its class, but I am worried that the same thing will happen (brake jam)

    so between the 3, I heard some of the juicies are quite hard to set up and the brake nose is difficult so solve. So i wonder what u guys would choose between the 3. thanks

  2. #2
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    08 XT's will be the best. But all brake well.

  3. #3
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    toss a formula K18 or K24 in there too.. similar in price, and a very well respected brake.

  4. #4
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    Gotta throw my BB7 love in here. Your current levers will likely work fine with the BB7s, with hydraulics you're changing them out. Hydraulics aren't as easy to service or adjust. You might get better power/modulation if you're lucky. Most guys who say their hydraulics don't get as much power just have ***** hands . Seriously, if you're doing a lot of downhill and adjusting pads manually bother you then maybe the BB7s aren't for you, but they are far more adjustable and more easily than any hydraulic out there for almost any other use (despite what mototom might say, he just apparently never was able to do it).
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
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  5. #5
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    you dont have to adjust hydraulics. you do the same initial setup you do with bb7's (or less), and thats it. you'd have to have broken brakes to get worse modulation than bb7's, and any of the brakes listed will have more power.

    i dont understand how the adjustment argument ever comes up.. you really dont adjust hydros. the ones that are adjustable just adjust for reach and power, and all those do it easier than bb7's.

  6. #6
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    Love to disagree with you tom, after reading all your posts you just seem to think that not needing to adjust your pads briefly compares to rebleeding and I think most will find simple adjustments far easier than bleeding procedures. Just vacuum bleed your brakes as you think is easier, but I'll take cable any day. My brakes stay adjusted just fine, am not worried about a few seconds here and there to adjust pad distance and symmetry between front/rear brakes, something that is much harder to achieve with hydraulics....do you want to spend a second or two dialing in the adjusters on a BB7 or bleeding brake lines? There's no comparison for the benefits unless you're a dedicated downhiller...and even then it's about time and effort.
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
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    you dont have to bleed brakes often. my bike is 2 years old, and it just now needs its first bleed. thats not too shabby at all. you're right, it really doesnt compare at all. bleeding is much less frequent, for some of us, by years instead of every single ride.

    im not saying bb7's are hard to maintain. they're not. hydros are also not. theres some really marginal difference in maintenance between them that makes it really a non issue. big deal you have to turn a dial for 3 seconds before a ride, and big deal that every few months to a year you'll have to spend 5 or 10 minutes bleeding your brake. almost all hydros are up to par on reliability now, it shouldnt be factored into a decision. look at power, modulation, feel.. maybe weight if you want to be a weeny. hydros just take the cake for all those.
    Last edited by tomsmoto; 10-24-2008 at 11:24 PM.

  8. #8
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    Maybe if your hands are weak...***** just keeps getting deleted. You saying that it's normal for both brakes to be symmetrical in pull without ****ing around with them? I doubt that seriously... For most riders hydraulics are overkill just look at all the braking bumps all over the trails...mostly made by idiots who think they need more from their brakes.
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
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  9. #9
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    back to the topic.... of those listed I prefer the XTs, but I think all are fine brakes (have used all of them)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by crisillo
    back to the topic.... of those listed I prefer the XTs, but I think all are fine brakes (have used all of them)
    I agree with Cris... I'm on my 3rd set of XT hydros and have not had one single problem with them.
    ...

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    The mineral oil fluid of Shimanos makes maintenance a snap. Nowhere near as dangerous to paint or difficult to clean as DOT. And it doesn't absorb moisture so you can go longer on a bleed.

    Now that hydros are as cheap as BB7s I really don't see the need for mechanical discs anymore. More of a tradition thing. I replaced the BB7s on my GF's bike with Hayes and they are much easier to modulate.

    Some will argue that hydros are more maintenance. That's only true every couple of years when you need to bleed. Meanwhile you will have adjusted/fiddled with your BB7s ten million times, over two years it adds up to at least several days worth of fiddling!

  12. #12
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    go xt's. Juicy brakes are annoyingly loud and not all that strong. I'm replacing the juicy 7's on my bike w/ xt's soon as I find time to do the set-up. As far as the bb7's go, they may be a bit easier to maintain, but honestly they don't compare even to my cheap Shimano m525 Deore hydro brakes. I actually have one of each on my HT.

  13. #13
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    IME XT's are also insanely loud with the M06 (metallic) pads. The M07 (organic) pads are dead silent though.

  14. #14
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    Why do Shimano parts cost so damn much? I'd like XT's, but they are so much more than BB7's.

  15. #15
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    you can get a full set of xt brakes for 250. once you factor in cables, housings, and levers, bb7's arent really that cheap.

  16. #16
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    If your calipers jammed close, they probably aren't set up correctly. Any brake will fail when not set up or maintained.

    The BB7 will jam if the housing pops out of the stops or if there's a ton of grit in the housing.

    Hydraulics can lock closed if the system isn't bled properly.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomsmoto
    you can get a full set of xt brakes for 250.
    Yup. No rotors, but otherwise complete:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/New-08-Shimano-D...1%7C240%3A1318

    I've bought from this seller before and he's legit. Btw, I bought Shimano SLX brakes from him, which are pretty darn comparable to XT's, and about $40 cheaper.

    Edit: Also check out Chain Reaction Cycles prices on XT/SLX. Make sure you put USA and USD (if appropriate) as your country and currency. With the current exchange rate there are some killer deals overseas.

  18. #18
    gio
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    If your calipers jammed close, they probably aren't set up correctly. Any brake will fail when not set up or maintained.

    The BB7 will jam if the housing pops out of the stops or if there's a ton of grit in the housing.

    Hydraulics can lock closed if the system isn't bled properly.
    i am quite sure its not due to the cable problem. me and the other guy realised that it was the caliper, so we opened it up, and found that the grease inside the caliper may have changed and so it didnt release the caliper properly, once some of the grease was removed, the brake became fine again (I took it to the uk, and the cold temp inside the storage of the plane may have changed the property of the grease, i just guessing). However, i just wanna get a new pair just in case.

  19. #19
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    i would put my BB7's up against any brake system. adjustability, modulation, power, it's all there and then some. when properly setup in my opinion they work just as well and are much less failure prone and way more trail repair friendly then hydro brakes. hydro is just way overkill for anything but maybe DH or something requiring ultra beef brakes. good luck with your housing and fluid and whatever the hell else you need to get your trail repairs done.

    if you're smart and use a high quality housing and lube your cables properly, and get a decent set of levers, BB7's just can't be beat. connect the system with cheap ass housing and cables, and expect it to suck.


  20. #20
    gio
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    just another question: what are the differences between bb5 and bb7? as i found a second hand deal avid speed digit ti + bb5 for about $100

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gio
    just another question: what are the differences between bb5 and bb7? as i found a second hand deal avid speed digit ti + bb5 for about $100
    BB7's pads can be dialed in/out on both sides...the 5's only adjust from one side.

    I have owned XT's, BB7's and Juicy 7's. If I had to buy new, I would say the BB7's win hands down peformance-versus-cost. If you are judging performance only, then the Juicy's would get the nod...
    It's only pain......

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyndonchen
    Yup. No rotors, but otherwise complete:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/New-08-Shimano-D...1%7C240%3A1318

    I've bought from this seller before and he's legit. Btw, I bought Shimano SLX brakes from him, which are pretty darn comparable to XT's, and about $40 cheaper.

    Edit: Also check out Chain Reaction Cycles prices on XT/SLX. Make sure you put USA and USD (if appropriate) as your country and currency. With the current exchange rate there are some killer deals overseas.
    the brakes are "pre-bred", what's not to love?

  23. #23
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    I'm with salimoneus. I'd put my 185mm BB7's up against any hydro any day.

    With an excellent setup like mine, if I do say so myself, they perform flawlessly.

    My current setup with I recommend to new bikers at my shop is as follows.

    BB7's, Jagwire Ripcord cables/housings (or Gore Ride-On's), Avid Speed Dial 7 levers
    and proper brake in method.

    BTW, my entire brake setup ran a grand total of $165 front and rear with 185 rotors.

    My biggest concern with hydros is what happens if you crash and damage a hose. Now you have no brake due to fluid loss. Cables are less likely to snap in a "regular" crash. And I like the adjustability of the pads. Turn the knobs and done. I don't want to spend 10-15 mins or more trying to adust pads on hydros.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by frdfandc
    I'm with salimoneus. I'd put my 185mm BB7's up against any hydro any day.

    My biggest concern with hydros is what happens if you crash and damage a hose. Now you have no brake due to fluid loss. Cables are less likely to snap in a "regular" crash. And I like the adjustability of the pads. Turn the knobs and done. I don't want to spend 10-15 mins or more trying to adust pads on hydros.

    Lots of misinformation here...

    Compare a 185mm mech disc with the same size in hydraulic. Any decent hydraulic will beat it not only in power but weight. The BB7s I replaced were a full 150gr more.

    The crash damaged hydro line is a red herring. I have never seen this happen in the real world, only in the theoretical.

    I have seen countless cables snap, some for no reason at all. Make sure you carry replacement cables! And also make sure you have extra red adjuster knobs, I've seen those fall off too and how do you adjust your brakes during a ride then?

    There is no 10-15mins spent adjusting hydro pads. They adjust themselves.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deme Moore
    Compare a 185mm mech disc with the same size in hydraulic. Any decent hydraulic will beat it...
    We discussed this in many threads before, the last one: BB7's. Are they as good as some Hydro Brakes?
    A majority of people that have experienced both - mechanicals and hydros - say that the hydros are somewhat stronger and better towards modulation. But a remarkable minority (myself included) says: BB7 stronger at least in the front with same rotor size and equal modulation.
    But this can only be achieved with:
    - (very) good housing: compressionless, uninterrupted/sealed for long duration
    -smooth cable run without many or unfavorable bendings
    -pads very close to the rotor
    -Avid speed dial adjusted towards power (counterclockwise)

    It seems that most BB7 users don't have such an optimum setup and so loose more or less of the maximum possible performance.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deme Moore
    Lots of misinformation here...

    Compare a 185mm mech disc with the same size in hydraulic. Any decent hydraulic will beat it not only in power but weight. The BB7s I replaced were a full 150gr more.

    The crash damaged hydro line is a red herring. I have never seen this happen in the real world, only in the theoretical.

    I have seen countless cables snap, some for no reason at all. Make sure you carry replacement cables! And also make sure you have extra red adjuster knobs, I've seen those fall off too and how do you adjust your brakes during a ride then?

    There is no 10-15mins spent adjusting hydro pads. They adjust themselves.

    I personally don't care about weight. But I'm not riding a 35lbs XC bike either. I don't know about you, but I expect the worse and hope for the best. Even with adjuster knobs broken, you can still use an allen wrench to adjust them.

    And just because YOU have never seen this happen in real world, doesn't mean that it never had or never will.

    But this will be an endless argument. Like I said before, I will put my BB7 setup against a hydro setup anyday.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deme Moore
    Lots of misinformation here...
    Compare a 185mm mech disc with the same size in hydraulic. Any decent hydraulic will beat it not only in power but weight. The BB7s I replaced were a full 150gr more.
    You missed the point. Hydros are overkill on a ~30lb bicycle with a ~200lb rider. Mechanical disks are more than strong enough to provide adequate stopping power in all but the most demanding situations (DH comes to mind, I will give you that). It's the usual marketing hype where they tell people what they need and the riders believe it and buy it.

    The space shuttle is stronger than a bottle rocket, but if all you're doing is sending up a fire cracker, the bottle rocket is going to do the job just as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deme Moore
    The crash damaged hydro line is a red herring. I have never seen this happen in the real world, only in the theoretical.
    Planes crash, there are tornados, hurricanes, and I have yet to see any of those in person either. Just because you haven't seen one doesn't mean they don't occur. People have problems with air in the lines plenty, maybe you just need to get out more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deme Moore
    I have seen countless cables snap, some for no reason at all. Make sure you carry replacement cables! And also make sure you have extra red adjuster knobs, I've seen those fall off too and how do you adjust your brakes during a ride then?
    Cables just don't snap by themselves for no reason. In case you didn't know, cables are damaged and made significantly weaker when overtightened. This is especially true with cheap low end cables. If something is installed half-assed, then you can only expect it to work about as well.

    I would argue that if you are seeing a lot of cable snaps in your area, then you should tell your riding buddies to find a new mechanic, because obviously they have no clue how to properly install and maintain a cable brake system. I have never had one break in the 18 years I have been doing my own maintenance/building.

    I'm fine with carrying a spare cable in case the need would ever arise. I hope you have room for a bottle of fluid, spare hose, bleeding tools, and whatever else would be required. It's pretty clear which repair I'd rather do on the trails.

  28. #28
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    I don't know about the Avid Brakes... but the 2008 XT are AMAZING! Superb feel and stopping power.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    You missed the point. Hydros are overkill on a ~30lb bicycle with a ~200lb rider. Mechanical disks are more than strong enough to provide adequate stopping power in all but the most demanding situations (DH comes to mind, I will give you that). It's the usual marketing hype where they tell people what they need and the riders believe it and buy it.
    I'm fine with carrying a spare cable in case the need would ever arise. I hope you have room for a bottle of fluid, spare hose, bleeding tools, and whatever else would be required. It's pretty clear which repair I'd rather do on the trails.
    Blah blah... All I know is I can buy a set of decent hydros and they're no more expensive than BB7s. You can't escape the fact that BB7s:

    A. Always need adjusting.

    B. The lever feel/modulation is nowhere near as awesome as a hydro.

    If someone is that happy with their mechanical discs then more power to them. I'll take the sealed, self-adjusting system anytime. With properly routed lines, I'm not losing sleep over snagging a line. You're far more likely to break many other pieces on your bike long before this.

    And if you do get this... you got TWO of them for backup. Who knew!?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deme Moore
    Blah blah... All I know is I can buy a set of decent hydros and they're no more expensive than BB7s. You can't escape the fact that BB7s:

    A. Always need adjusting.

    B. The lever feel/modulation is nowhere near as awesome as a hydro.

    ...
    Yea so maybe I need to turn a knob once every few months. Wow that's some hardcore laborious stuff right there. You're right it's probably too hard for you, you had better stick to your fluid brakes. Just make sure you don't boil over, that might get pretty messy.

    And it sounds like you've never used a set of properly installed BB7s, because the feel and modulation of mine are as good as any hydro I have tried. It does take some skill and effort on the install to get right, just like anything else. There's a lot of good mechanics out there, maybe we could find one for you next time you need to work with a cable system.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus

    And it sounds like you've never used a set of properly installed BB7s, because the feel and modulation of mine are as good as any hydro I have tried. .
    Ok, I gotta chime in on this one...

    I love BB7's. I rode them for 2 years. Those are hands down the best mech disc brake on the market. That being said they have ZERO modulation compared to most hydro's. You can disagree all you want but I would be really, really surprised that if you polled a large group who own/have owned both BB7's and decent hyrdro's they didn't overwhelmingly agree with me.

    Look, I'm not hating on BB7's. I love them but they have a obvious 'ON/OFF' feel that good hydro's don't have. Go ride XT's for 3 months then jump back on bb7's and tell me they are the same.

  32. #32
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    Agree with EDR. Had Avid BBDB's for years and loved them. My setup/cables/housing/whatever may not have been perfect, but they felt fine to me. Plenty of power and modulation, easy to adjust, had no complaints. But then, I'd never had a good set of hydros to compare against either.

    I got a set of 08 XT's for a new bike this year, and what a difference. I can't say that they're any more powerful than the Avids, but the lever feel was pure butter. Silky smooth, tons of modulation. I'll agree with those who say mech brakes are easier to set up and adjust. But when it comes to lever feel, there's no way cable pull brakes can compare to the silky feel of 08 XT's. Imo, of course.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    Yea so maybe I need to turn a knob once every few months. Wow that's some hardcore laborious stuff right there. You're right it's probably too hard for you, you had better stick to your fluid brakes. Just make sure you don't boil over, that might get pretty messy.

    And it sounds like you've never used a set of properly installed BB7s, because the feel and modulation of mine are as good as any hydro I have tried. It does take some skill and effort on the install to get right, just like anything else. There's a lot of good mechanics out there, maybe we could find one for you next time you need to work with a cable system.
    Uh-huh...

    I've never experienced boilover, sorry. And I've tried. Never experienced a torn hydro line either. But in your fantasy world both are a serious issue!

    I have experienced the constant adjustment of BB7s. And their grabby nature. So when I picked up a pair of Hayes to replace my GF's BB7, we both considered it a major upgrade.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    Ok, I gotta chime in on this one...

    I love BB7's. I rode them for 2 years. Those are hands down the best mech disc brake on the market. That being said they have ZERO modulation compared to most hydro's. You can disagree all you want but I would be really, really surprised that if you polled a large group who own/have owned both BB7's and decent hyrdro's they didn't overwhelmingly agree with me.

    Look, I'm not hating on BB7's. I love them but they have a obvious 'ON/OFF' feel that good hydro's don't have. Go ride XT's for 3 months then jump back on bb7's and tell me they are the same.
    Too much leverage in a cable system and you can end up with that "ON/OFF" feel and I know exactly what you are talking about. Most higher end levers do have a separate leverage adjustment knob, and it works wonders. It's all in the components and setup.

  35. #35
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    I can't speak to the BB7's, but I have Juicy 5's and my wife just got a new bike with XT. I like my Juicy 5's - they have stop on a dime and never fade. However, I do get some noise that comes and goes. Although my wife's brakes aren't fully broken in, they feel better than the Avids and don't make a sound. Just like lyndonchen said - they're silky smooth and tons of modulation.
    So, if you go w/ hydros, I would get the XT's.

  36. #36
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    My three past bikes have had BB7's, juicy ultimates, and now 08 XT's. Anyone who says the bb7's are better than 08 XT's must not have tried the XT's. Short of an exotic brake costing alot more they are the most amazing brakes I have tried. The juicys are somewhere in between but still ahead of the bb7's

    Some people just ride flat fireroads, for them anything is great. If you actually mountain bike however, hydro brakes are the way to go.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhaskell

    Some people just ride flat fireroads, for them anything is great. If you actually mountain bike however, hydro brakes are the way to go.
    A bit harsh perhaps but your point still holds true. I did plenty of hard riding on my BB7's on plenty of nasty terrain. It wasn't until I built a new bike that I realized the differences between brakes. I rode the new bike for 2 or 3 months then took the old bike out for a ride. Grabbing a handful of BB7's after getting used to the modulation of hydros almost sent me over the bars. Ya, they grabbed great but had no 'feel' whatsoever.

    IMO there really is no comparison between xt's and bb7's, and there shouldn't be. They just are different and only after some experience with both will one be able to compare fairly. Those who offer opinions based on nothing else than hearsay are offering just that.

    Bottom line OP....bb7's are great. If you've never spent extensive time of good hydros you'll never know what you are missing and for most that is good enough, but hey, if you've got a little more money to spend, do it.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    A bit harsh perhaps but your point still holds true.
    Sorry I didn't mean for it to be harsh, it might have came across that way however. It is all about perspective I think, being from the northeast I had never experienced certain types of riding until I went to Norcal. Things like 1+ hour climbs just don't exist out here. Someone in florida might not know what a long long downhill is like until they try one out.

    People have been riding since steel rigids with no real brakes or gears existed, its possible to have fun on anything

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhaskell
    Sorry I didn't mean for it to be harsh, it might have came across that way however. It is all about perspective I think, being from the northeast I had never experienced certain types of riding until I went to Norcal. Things like 1+ hour climbs just don't exist out here. Someone in florida might not know what a long long downhill is like until they try one out.

    People have been riding since steel rigids with no real brakes or gears existed, its possible to have fun on anything

    No need for apologies...like you said, people can ride anything on any bike with any components. It's just that some tools are better for the job at hand and like a fs bike is better for bombing down gnar (quickly) than a hardtail, hydros provide better feel on technical descents than mechanical brakes. You don't HAVE to have them but they do perform better for the job at hand.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhaskell
    My three past bikes have had BB7's, juicy ultimates, and now 08 XT's. Anyone who says the bb7's are better than 08 XT's must not have tried the XT's. Short of an exotic brake costing alot more they are the most amazing brakes I have tried. The juicys are somewhere in between but still ahead of the bb7's

    Some people just ride flat fireroads, for them anything is great. If you actually mountain bike however, hydro brakes are the way to go.
    The only fireroads I ride are those that take me to the trails. I still say that you most likely did not have your BB7's setup anywhere near optimal, if you noticed that big a difference.

    I also do not claim that BB7s are superior, I'm simply saying that when setup properly they are just as effective at stopping than any other mountain bike braking system. Sure hydros may be more powerful, but it's wasted power because it's really not needed.

    If some people just prefer the feel of hydros then that seems like more of a personal preference thing.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    The only fireroads I ride are those that take me to the trails. I still say that you most likely did not have your BB7's setup anywhere near optimal, if you noticed that big a difference.

    I also do not claim that BB7s are superior, I'm simply saying that when setup properly they are just as effective at stopping than any other mountain bike braking system. Sure hydros may be more powerful, but it's wasted power because it's really not needed.

    If some people just prefer the feel of hydros then that seems like more of a personal preference thing.
    If you have ever tried 08 XT's I doubt you had them set up optimally, since you didn't notice a big difference.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by trelgne
    -pads very close to the rotor
    -Avid speed dial adjusted towards power (counterclockwise)
    Could you are anyone else who feels their BB7's are set up correctly like this answer some questions???

    When you say "adjusted towards power", does that mean the levers are harder to pull? ie the leverage thing is moved away from the bar instead of close to the bar - when looking through the windows? I THINK that is what you are saying, but I don't understand how this gives better modulation. I have my levers set such that they feels pretty mushy and brake pretty close to the grips. I think this feels easier on the hands.

    Please elaborate on your lever setup. Thanks!

    I have BB7's. I keep thinking hydros would be nicer and lighter. But the BB7's seem to just keep working fine. So I'm still on the fence...

  43. #43
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    I always set my BB7s to brake mid stroke on the lever. And you want to keep a little distance on the pad/rotor to improve modulation. At least that was my experience. The mistake most people make is to keep the pads close to the rotor and have the levers brake right away.

    After switching to hydros I got both power and modulation with zero adjusting. And they stay that way! If you shop around you can find hydros for $65/side including levers. That's the same price as BB7s.

    If you have mech twiddle them to perfection. If you're buying new brakes hydro is the way to go!

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    When you say "adjusted towards power", does that mean the levers are harder to pull? ie the leverage thing is moved away from the bar instead of close to the bar - when looking through the windows? I THINK that is what you are saying, but I don't understand how this gives better modulation. I have my levers set such that they feels pretty mushy and brake pretty close to the grips. I think this feels easier on the hands.
    Look here: BB7's. Are they as good as some Hydro Brakes?
    In this posting I have described my favourite BB7 setup in more detail - the setup that overpasses comparable hydros towards braking power (in the front). Modulation must be seen in relation to the given maximum power of the brake system. A Giant MPH3 (low pressure hydro) has very good modulation because slight change in pulling doesn't result in very different stopping power, but on the other hand you have to pull very hard when you want to stop the bike in steep terrain. With my BB7 however it is very easy to stop in steep downhill sections (only one finger with medium effort). I have compared many hydros to my BB7. Those who had the same stopping power (two different Juicy7s with bigger rotors and Swissstop pads) had in no case any better modulation; they had a very harsh feel and more on/off.
    Here you can see pictures of my cable run - good cable run is very important for smooth lever action and a precondition for good modulation with the BB7. Unfortunately not possible with all kind of frames.
    Full length housing - mushy feeling

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomsmoto
    you dont have to adjust hydraulics. you do the same initial setup you do with bb7's (or less), and thats it. you'd have to have broken brakes to get worse modulation than bb7's, and any of the brakes listed will have more power.

    i dont understand how the adjustment argument ever comes up.. you really dont adjust hydros. the ones that are adjustable just adjust for reach and power, and all those do it easier than bb7's.
    That depends on 2 things. 1, while hydros are lower maintenance, bleeding them and maintaining them when the time comes is a pain. With mechs you change the cables and housings and 20 minutes later your back on the trail. They may also be more durable (although unlikely).
    2. if you buy a metal link and/or metal coated housing, such as the ones avid makes, brake performance will increase considerably, matching good hydros. These brakes are already better than base line hydros anyway, so really its up to what you need. I use mechs. I love the feel of hydros but then, I also love my shimano dual controls, and honestly, I dont need more power. When (if) I do a metal coated housing should fix that problem.

  46. #46
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    Also with BB7's is you don't get things like this..............


    Juicy 7s keeping getting air in the lines

    Leaking Avid Code !

    How can i fix leaky brake lever?

  47. #47
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    Ok I want to either look at the XT's or BB7's. But I have a large bone to pick with Hayes/hydros.
    I have Hayes HFX9s on my dh rig and they have never felt good after my first day at Diablo. I've bled them mechanics have bled them, new pads you name it I've tried to fix these things and its just not happening they feel terrible and with 8" rotors they still don't brake that well. On my xc rig I have the so1e's and I know they are bottom grade hyrdos but they are terrible as well. And I have had to adjust these pads numerous times over a 4 month period, and it is time consuming. Is it just Hayes that suck or do hydraulics just do this?
    Mary ss shenanigans

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob.char
    Is it just Hayes that suck or do hydraulics just do this?
    I've used HFX-9's and 08 XT's, and there's no comparison: the XT's blow the 9's out of the water. Way better power, modulation, and lever feel.

  49. #49
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    "1, while hydros are lower maintenance, bleeding them and maintaining them when the time comes is a pain. With mechs you change the cables and housings and 20 minutes later your back on the trail. They may also be more durable (although unlikely)."

    20 minutes? It's possible to entirely flush and bleed both brakes (the equivalent to replacing cables), properly clean the caliper interior/piston, change pads if neccesary and reinstall/align the calipers in less time than that. With the exception of repairing damage, hydraulic hose and its fittings do not require periodic replacement.

    2. if you buy a metal link and/or metal coated housing, such as the ones avid makes, brake performance will increase considerably, matching good hydros.

    You've never ridden on a set of good hydraulic brakes, have you?

    Cable actuated brakes can be very good, relatively, particularly in the case of the BB7s, but it's only ever people who ride them who believe that they're "as good" or even superior to a quality hydraulic brakeset. The 'less/easier maintenance' argument is nothing short of absolute nonsense and the idea that mechs can be somehow tuned to compare with a good hydraulic set-up is just not true, either. Yes, a BB7 - the top-of-the-line cable disc brake - may feel and perform better than a low-quality hydraulic brakeset, but put it against even a half-decent hydraulic brake and the difference is significant.

    The argument that cable brakes can't suffer from fluid leaks is moot. Pretty much any of the problems that one can find with a hydraulic system can be found to have an equivalent issue on a cable actuated brake. Air in the line being akin to a poorly adjusted cable. Leaky fittings being akin to a loose cable mounting bolt, and so on.
    Last edited by SteveUK; 11-30-2008 at 07:34 AM.

    What use is a philosopher who doesn't hurt anybody's feelings? -
    Diogenes


  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveUK
    Yes, a BB7 - the top-of-the-line cable disc brake - may feel and perform better than a low-quality hydraulic brakeset, but put it against even a half-decent hydraulic brake and the difference is significant.
    Nonsense! My comparisons to the BB7 are several Avid Juicy 7, several Magura Louise and Louise FR, Formula Oro K18 and Puro. My BB7 is just as good towards modulation and braking power, and even stronger in the front with same rotor size and similar pads.

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