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  1. #1
    TNC
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    Avid pads & the Avid squawk?

    I think most of us interested in this have read the huge thread on the Avid "turkey gobble" and other similar posts. I was starting to think that the assessment of rear mount integrity or rear chainstay mount aligment was possibly the best call. Now I don't think so. This squawk/vibration seems to pop up in both the Juicy and Elixir line, and these brakes are different enough by a fairly large margin to kind of eliminate it being just a Juicy design thing IMO.

    I had a rear Elixir R (aftermarket) that was on my new '08 Stumpjumper FSR that had the vibration under light or partial braking. Grabbing a handful of brake always makes it stop. This vibration had also been present at the rear with the OEM Juicy 5's that were on the bike. This led me to believe that the alignment of the rear mount was an issue. I flipped this rear Elixir over to my '03 SC Bullit. Whoa!...same vibration present. I then installed the brake over to the rear of my '06 Nomad...vibration still present. I had a frame warranty on the '06 Nomad come up, and got a new '08 Nomad...new front and rear triangles. On the rear of the new Nomad...vibration still present. I did all the tweaks to setting the alignment of the caliper on this brake to no avail. I cleaned the backs of the pads and the faces of the pistons...still vibrating. I put a new set of Avid pads in the caliper...contamination of the original pads, perhaps?...the vibration returned in just a few braking stops. I had picked up a set of Jagwire sintered pads with aluminum backs just to keep in my travel bike box. As a last resort I threw them in there. After two very decent rides, no vibration. Could this whole deal be a pad material thing? It sounds too simple to me, and I thought I had read where others had tried different pads with no success. The original Avid pads and the Jagwires are definitely different. They're both sintered material, but the Avid backs look like bronze or copper type material. The Jags are alumium. They both stop with the same braking performance...nothing different there.

    What do you think? A possible solution or just something that worked in my case? I was about to use the trick Magura caliper mount facing tool at our shop to see if that helped, but after 4 separate bikes, I'm of the opinion that the problem is in the specific brake unit itself...and maybe even just the pads. I have another set of Elixir R's on the Bullit, and that unit has never vibrated or squaked.

  2. #2
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    And to think, I've been sacrificing chickens all this time.

    Honestly, I've heard of so many different solutions to the turkey-gobble problem that it boggles my mind. I'm glad you found a solution that worked for you. That's the important thing. It's a frustrating problem, and good that you've solved it.

    Regular cleaning is the only real solution that's worked for me. Well, that, and I recently crashed and wrecked the one frame that was giving me the most trouble.

  3. #3
    Devil Mtn
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    Had the same problem as TNC but with Juicy Carbons. Switched to Galfer semi-metallic pads and the vibration is gone. Now I need new pads though and can't seem to source the Galfers (had gotten them at price point previously). Jagwires could be an option ... but I liked the power better under the Galfers as well. Thoughts?

  4. #4
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    I believe that the CPS is a serious contentder for prime suspect, or, perhaps more specifically, the materials and finish of the conical washers. The surfaces of the washers are so uneven, so coarse, that the potential for resonance, and/or transfer of resonance, is massive. Insert this potential into a system that actually encourages misalignment - partly due to the poor finish of the washers and their tendency to twist or move when the bolt is tightened and partly due to the failure to consider correct piston travel - and the problem starts to compound itself.

    It's not my intention to turn this into an Avid-bash, but there's so much additional, pointless material with Avids that it's no real surprise that they are so problematic. The CPS set-up and the "tool-less" pad-clip/spring/doohickything just replace problems that don't exist with problems that shouldn't. So what if I don't need get my fork/frame faced (once in its life) and so what if I need a 3mm Allen key to remove the pads? At least I don't have to remove the wheel to take my pads out, then have to dick around with the QR for another half and hour to get the tension precisely the same! Like I said, replacing problems that don't exist with problems that shouldn't.
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  5. #5
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    I fixed mine today. Bought some XTs
    :wq

  6. #6
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    Long time user of BB7s and no awkward noises on several different frames, forks and hubs, and, but for a little bit of extra screeching which I blame on the roundagon rotors (gone with the clean sweep rotors I've swapped them out for), I've had nothing compared to what I've read so much about. I've always been pretty particular about the caliper setup, though. You can't rely on CPS alone for sure, I've used a few other tweaks like washers on rotors or mounts or some shaving of welds or modifying adapters a bit...whatever it takes. Once I get the caliper positioned well I think I've taken care of most potential additional noise in any case.

    Just bought my very first set of hydraulic brakes and went with Elixir CR as I got a good price and wanted to see if some of my old complaints had been answered with these brakes. I was kind of fearing finally getting the famous Avid gobble or something, but once I got the calipers positioned just right (and had to spend some time doing this and use a bit of creativity with a washer to alliviate a post mount/rotor alignment issue for the front). No extra noises in the end, though. Didn't get to put these on the bike I got them for, as during prep for installation I discovered cracks on the Nomad, but have a warranty replacement under way (yay SC!), so will have a new frame and different fork to mount them to maybe next week, so I'll get another chance to develop some issues then...

    I have wondered how much some rely on the CPS to solve all issues, which they really can't, you really have to watch what happens when you tighten them down and what it does to what might have seemed a properly positioned caliper as you start to tighten. I also think like steveuk brought up, if the materials used for the CPS washers are best. I've also wondered if the tolerance of the pad fit/spring setup aren't a potential problem.
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  7. #7
    TNC
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    I think you're gonna like those brakes, Bikin'. Both of my sets got a good thrashig during 2 weeks at Moab, as my riding buddy's frame broke on the 3rd day out, and he had to use my Bullit the rest of the trip. Neither bike had brake squeaks or squawks.

    Hey...you mention a crack on the Nomad. Where was yours, and what are you getting for replacement?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    I think you're gonna like those brakes, Bikin'. Both of my sets got a good thrashig during 2 weeks at Moab, as my riding buddy's frame broke on the 3rd day out, and he had to use my Bullit the rest of the trip. Neither bike had brake squeaks or squawks.

    Hey...you mention a crack on the Nomad. Where was yours, and what are you getting for replacement?
    I'd describe my use of the Elixir CRs as still in the breaking in stage....but I gotta admit I'm liking them a lot. At first I thought the lever shape was a bit wide, but with more use no problem. I thought the lever feel was a bit deader but the modulation is much better than other hydraulic brakes I've tried so again just some getting used to I think. The contact point adjustment makes them pretty user friendly for adjusting the feel/touch thing, not sure I would have liked the basic Elixir (although running one of each front and rear to give the ability roughly match the feel might be a good way to go).

    Talked with SC the other day, they've got a front and rear end being powdercoated black (replacing my black ano wasn't an option unfortunately), hopefully at the end of the week, so am getting new stuff and soon. I'll pick it up, good excuse to ride over there anyways, and hopefully some time next week. I had parallel cracks on the top tube of my 05 large black ano directly above the top pivot mounts, in the direction of the bent tube, can send you pics if interested.
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
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  9. #9
    TNC
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    My cracks were in the radius of the weld for the upper link mount. Interesting that yours and Lowball's were both following the shape of the tube. Just curious. Good luck with the new setup.

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