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  1. #1
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    Avid Elixir CR air/bubbles/arrrrgggh

    I installed Elixir CR bout 6 weeks ago. 1st 2 weeks were good cept that it seemed they needed to be bleed right out of the box and there was kind of a hitch in the lever as ya pull it in...
    I bleed it and got a bunch o' bubbles out - way more than Juicy 7 bleeds - and it SEEMED to be fine til i rode it. now they variate between sloppy alll the way to the bar stopping with a big hitch. So, i bleed them 2x back to back - more bubbles, as if there is a leak somewhere...
    when i adjust the barrel/pad adjust it changes the modulation some - still back n forth...
    Also, my buddy swore up n down Dot 4 is cool but the manual says 5.1. is that my problem? Have I cooked my seals? or is Dot 4 OK?
    Any experience out there?
    thanks in advance
    EC

  2. #2
    Toilet Assasin
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    Dont think using DOT5.1 is your problem to be honest mate.

    DOT4 / 5.1 is printed on the levers of my Elixer R's so either should be fine IMO. DOT5.1 has a higher boiling point not sure of any other differences to be honest.

  3. #3
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    Bleed, re-bleed, and do it again - take your time and don't be rushed. Honestly, these are one of the most challenging brakes to get set-up. But once they are finally "dialed" in you won't be disappointed.

    On a side note: I have found that SRAM's bleed kits do not last forever (even after taking them apart and wiping them down with Iso) and was the contributing factor to my multiple bleed attempts

  4. #4
    TNC
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    One other issue on the Avid bleed instructions is inconsistency. I've seen the latest video, downloaded the latest text, and received the latest manual for bleeding my Elixirs...and all 3 have slightly different methods. Then to confuse it even more, I stumbled on to a slightly different step early in the bleed process while doing my own that made the whole process easier and almost bulletproof.

    I thought that since the Elixir model is designed a little more like my old Hayes Mags with the lever port location and the inline master cylinder, they might respond to a similar bleed method rather than the funky 2 syringe dance that Avids require. Hayes Mags may be the easiest hydros to bleed that I've ever seen. But alas, something is obviously different, and the nooks and crannies in the caliper and master cylinder require that push-and-pull 2 syringe method.

    Avid has you starting the procedure at the caliper syringe, but I found that starting with a 1/3 full lever syringe pushes the air out of the caliper first...pushing the lever syringe to the max before it empties. This always seems to push massive amounts of bubbles out of the caliper and into a now nearly full caliper syringe. The caliper has simpler internals than the master cylinder. I think getting it completely evacuated first lets you start with a nearly full syringe at the caliper and no air in the fluid all the way from the caliper to some point toward the caliper. I let all the air clear to the top of the caliper syringe. At this point I start pushing fluid from the caliper to the lever with a nearly full caliper syringe. But instead of one continuous push, I use a sort of Hayes method of a longer push toward the lever...stop...a quick push back toward the caliper...stop...a longer push toward the lever...stop...and so on until the caliper syringe is almost emptied. This back-and-forth flow dislodged more hidden bubbles than the Avid method IMO. I end the process as stated in the Avid instructions. Using this method, I've had excellent success in evacuating all air from the system with no return of mushy lever.

    Basically I follow the latest Avid download text for Elixir and Juicy brakes with the exception of how I start and complete the syringe pumping exchange of fluid between the lever and caliper as I described. Everything else is the same. I think the back-and-forth flow is the key, as it dislodges air more effectively. One other thing is keeping a close eye on how you work the syringes, keeping a close and logical eye on air management in the syringes to insure that no air gets pumped back into the system. Air bubbles rise, and I keep the syringes vertical to insure that no air gets reintroduced into the system during the 2 syringe dance you have to do with this setup.

    That said, the Elixirs are the most impressive and powerful 2-piston hydros I've ridden up to this point, and I've gotten to ride and feel quite a few through the shop.

  5. #5
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    thanks all
    i'll giver the college try there
    I've read too that the finger tight cable nuts may leak air into the system.
    gonna cinch'em CAREFULLY and bleed as per above.
    I look forward to some performance - came off the mtn. last night with bout 5% power - aaaahhhhh!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prunetucky
    thanks all
    i'll giver the college try there
    I've read too that the finger tight cable nuts may leak air into the system.
    gonna cinch'em CAREFULLY and bleed as per above.
    I look forward to some performance - came off the mtn. last night with bout 5% power - aaaahhhhh!

    You have a bad seal on the lever. I have the same issue too and i am not sure what i should do about it. One of my levers feels ok, but the other one has a hitch when the seal uncollapses and collapse on itself. I think when this happens it sucks air in against the shaft of the bore plunger. If you seperate the adjustment collar from the lever assembly and watch the actuation of the seal it sticks and pulls the seal off the shaft. One of my lever assemblies does this, the other one doesn't

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by distro
    You have a bad seal on the lever. I have the same issue too and i am not sure what i should do about it. One of my levers feels ok, but the other one has a hitch when the seal uncollapses and collapse on itself. I think when this happens it sucks air in against the shaft of the bore plunger. If you seperate the adjustment collar from the lever assembly and watch the actuation of the seal it sticks and pulls the seal off the shaft. One of my lever assemblies does this, the other one doesn't
    If this is in fact the problem Avid does have a rebuild kit for the M/C

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by cort
    If this is in fact the problem Avid does have a rebuild kit for the M/C

    If only they didn't come like this, know where to order parts at?

  9. #9
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    ya, BOTH levers still have the hitch. BUT! i did finally get'em bled! 3 tries, using the pushpull method described above/TNC reply
    Sugg. buy extra pads when new cuz after bleeding 5x, yer bound to get earl on the brake pads. another sugg. this one is for AVID/SRAM; design better brakes! Juicy 7 brakes have so many issues that it clogs the MTBR forum, and these newer Elixirs are lookin that way too!

  10. #10
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    well to be honest I has been working with hydraulic systems since some years, one thing which is constant is that any fluid will scape were the easiest way it could find. I has been using this theory with all my brake systems. The Juicy and Elixir are pretty same, so what I do is:

    1- fill half one of the syringes with the DOT fluid (bleed any air), it will be in the top (lever point).
    2- fill one full syringe with the DOT fluid (bleed any air), it will be in the bottom (caliper point).
    3- keep the top syringe in vertical position (to avoid air coming inside the lever).
    4- push the bottom syringe (allow the 90% of the fluid go to the top syringe or until it be full), you will see air coming from the system.
    5- push the top syringe (allow the 90% of the fluid go to the bottom syringe or until it be full), you will see air coming from the system.
    6- with both syringes half filled after do 2 or 3 times the previous process, just pull the lever as you were breaking (you will see air coming out and fluid moving from side to other).
    6- repeat 2 or 3 times step 5.
    7- remove the syringes and put 1 or 2 max drops of fluid in the bleeding ports and close them with the cap.

    done, you have the system ready!

    cheers

  11. #11
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    Fabricio, Ed here... made the orig. post. i ended up taken the Elixirs in and the kid told me there was still a bunch of bubbles, they had not been bled correctly and that the procedure was different from the Juicy 7s i had previously.
    In your procedure, you sugg. squeezing the lever to get more bubbles out. is that right? as far as i can see, that is the only change? (the Avid site has ya rubber band the lever to the bar, never squeezing). My front brake still has issues day-to-day; pulls all the way to the bar, hitch in actuation. i fix it on the trl. by adjusting the pad contact barrel out, squeeze a few times, adj. back in, squeeze a few, mo betta!
    what ya think
    Ed

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prunetucky
    Fabricio, Ed here... made the orig. post. i ended up taken the Elixirs in and the kid told me there was still a bunch of bubbles, they had not been bled correctly and that the procedure was different from the Juicy 7s i had previously.
    In your procedure, you sugg. squeezing the lever to get more bubbles out. is that right? as far as i can see, that is the only change? (the Avid site has ya rubber band the lever to the bar, never squeezing). My front brake still has issues day-to-day; pulls all the way to the bar, hitch in actuation. i fix it on the trl. by adjusting the pad contact barrel out, squeeze a few times, adj. back in, squeeze a few, mo betta!
    what ya think
    Ed
    Hi Prune:

    I answered the PM.... just remember that any adjustment in the levers can hide bubbles, move them to the maximum to have the biggest fluid volume in the system.


    let me know how is going!

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