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  1. #1
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    Surly ECR worth it?

    I absolutely love it, but it's a lot of money, espcially compared to other frames - on one's. Would love to hear some input
    EDIT: Or would I maybe be better off just getting a pugsley and running 29+ on it? I already have a mukluk, but I'm finding it really sluggish for long distances while carrying weight and I want a steel bike so bad! I'm not sure how the riding geometrey would differentiate between the pugs and the mukluk though...
    Last edited by OfficerFriendly; 07-14-2014 at 06:27 AM.

  2. #2
    seedub
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    More than you ever wanted to know re: ECR. Read the rest of the blog regarding chasing the the all-rounder. Sounds like you two have a similar dilemma.

    Dissecting the Surly ECR | gypsy by trade
    you may have come before us on no bicycle, but that does not say you know everything.

  3. #3
    Lord Thunderbottom
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    the low BB when running traditional 29er tires or lower volume tires for mostly paved tours puts me off

    why not 29+ the mukluk? too much difference in the drivetrains you want for touring vs winter/beach rides?
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by seedub View Post
    More than you ever wanted to know re: ECR. Read the rest of the blog regarding chasing the the all-rounder. Sounds like you two have a similar dilemma.

    Dissecting the Surly ECR | gypsy by trade
    Thanks for the article! I absolutely love that blog, it's amazing...

    Quote Originally Posted by TitanofChaos View Post
    the low BB when running traditional 29er tires or lower volume tires for mostly paved tours puts me off

    why not 29+ the mukluk? too much difference in the drivetrains you want for touring vs winter/beach rides?
    Fair enough, and no I really wanted to keep that as a fatbike, and I don't really love riding it long distances.... Need something built for touring!

  5. #5
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    Check this out in regards to it as a touring bike: Surly ECR: Bike Touring 1,000 KM Impressions - Pedaling Nowhere

  6. #6
    Positively negative
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    I still don't get the ECR. Sandy back road touring, fire road passes with a chance of snow? Pretty narrow speciality IMO. Not that you couldn't use it where ever but IMO 3 inch tires and racks don't mix in most cases.

  7. #7
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    I do a fair bit of dirt touring in the arid Southwest, and it's hard to imagine a better off-the-shelf dirt tourer than the ECR (the full build). I think this is especially true for longer self-supported touring, where carrying more gear and more than a few days of food (and maybe a few days of water) warrants more space (racks) than afforded by bike-packing set up. The geometry, cockpit, braze-ons--it's all purpose-built for dirt touring. The 29x3s, especially up front, are good for two things: a bit of suspension, and more secure rolling in soft and, just as importantly, very chunky terrain (rocky, chunky two tracks, following now-gone routes, both of which I find myself on quite a bit). The only downside I see is the low BB. In my opinion the stability benefits of a low BB don't outweigh the cost of pedal strikes on a loaded rig while navigating rocky, variable terrain.

  8. #8
    ECR
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    Surly ECR worth it?

    Depends on what you are looking for. If your riding is mostly asphalt or singletrack then perhaps not, but Surly's ECR with 29x3 Knards is the "go-to long distance, off-road touring bike".

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by OfficerFriendly View Post
    Would love to hear some input
    EDIT: Or would I maybe be better off just getting a pugsley and running 29+
    Lots of people are enjoying Kram-Pugs. If you had a Pugsley you could get rid of the Muk and just run a fat and a 29+ wheelset.

    I debated doing that myself before buying a Krampus as my touring bike.

    Cass Gilbert, Joe Cruz and others are touring on straight up Pugsleys so the geo is more than adequate for touring.

    Blog | While Out Riding | Dirt road cycling adventures across the Americas
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  10. #10
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    I built up two front suspended custom krampugs for this purpose for my fiancé and I. PM me if you have any specific questions.

  11. #11
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    The ECR is a niche of a niche of a niche bike that has problems if you ever wanted to run anything other than a 29x3 on it. Low BB defines the bike and then hamstrings it in that way.

    Take your Mukluk and run 29x3s on it... Stretch the alternator mount out all the way if it's a newer one and lengthen the wheelbase for touring.

  12. #12
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    Thanks Syntheticreality! I got the ECR a couple of weeks ago, just finished building it up!! Will post pics if anyone's interested? xD

  13. #13
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    Of course we're interested.

    There are more than a few bike pron addicts lurking around here, just waiting for more bike pictures.

    (Kinda creepy, actually.)
    Last edited by Spinymouse; 08-15-2014 at 07:48 PM. Reason: Changed Smiley.
    Spinymouse

    11 KM SS
    13 CC Rando-Check
    13 Pugsley

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by OfficerFriendly View Post
    Will post pics if anyone's interested? xD
    Its been four hours! Where are those pics? (sarcasm)

    I'm an ECR fan and would like to go that route someday. I have an Ogre built for long touring right now that fits the need for the time being.

  15. #15
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    I dont envy you the price of tires nor my current perception of their wear rate on the tarmac.
    I went for an Ogre before the ECR was available and think I'd make the same choice again.
    Love the Krampus and ECR but I think as I can have only one bike at a time due to storage issue, my Ogre is the one for me.

    Now where are those pics?
    Cant wait to see your new pride and joy.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
    I dont envy you the price of tires nor my current perception of their wear rate on the tarmac.
    I went for an Ogre before the ECR was available and think I'd make the same choice again.
    +1 - I wouldn't want to ride Knards on pavement for hundreds/thousands of KMs. It would be a waste of $$.

    gypsy by trade | Ridin' bikes and travelin' light.

    Nick over at Gypsy by Trade is doing a multi-month European mostly dirt tour on a Krampus with "normal" 29er rubber. That way he can resupply tires as needed at a LBS along the route.

    When he's back home I suspect you'll see Knards back on the bike.

    You aren't restricted to just 29+ tires.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  17. #17
    seedub
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    you may have come before us on no bicycle, but that does not say you know everything.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by seedub View Post
    Some people have blown apart Knards on a handful of rides. Others like the link above have had good durability results.

    I'm running 120TPI Knards and mine have done pretty well in some tough conditions. I've also done 100kms+ on pavement on tour with my Knards and I thought they did really well for a MTB tire.

    I just wanted Rifraf to consider that running 29+ tires was not mandatory.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  19. #19
    ECR
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    Quote Originally Posted by seedub View Post
    "I could have rolled these tires for a lifespan of maybe 8,500 kilometers. To me that’s pretty impressive, and surprising. I carried a spare on this trip thinking that I may either suffer a sidewall tear or they would just wear out; I’ll be leaving that spare at home next time...The Knards completely absorbed the egg-sized rocks that seem to be strewn all over these tracks. They simply barrel over almost anything without consequence."

    Surly Knard Review, Velocity Blunt 35 Touring Wheel - Pedaling Nowhere

  20. #20
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    OfficerFriendly does apologise, just finished building it up! And you guys, it is AWESOME. You really can barrel over anything and anyone. The wheels are custom, build them up by hand myself, front is a Dynamo hooked up to a 90 lux (very weak apparently according to LBS) and usb (going to mount one of those block speakers on the front rack - rock out while I ride. god I love music so much and this is like a dream come true). Both rims are Kris Holm Unicycles, put reflective rim tape in but not sure about the colour. Got a Topeak rear explorer with ww2 military issue bags mounted and on the right side, my lowepro backpack which fits on perfectly, no modding required. On the front is a bontrager deluxe rack, cost £30 as opposed to the £90 Surly Nice's, tried to bend to get it to fit, ended up up snapping off the end bit, fit's perfectley now, mounted in different places to the fork, with various bits, it's ****ing rock solid. Light mounts on perfectly. Got 3 BBB Fuel Tank XL cages, one in the frame center (but prevents me from having a frame bag!!) and two on the forks which also fit absolutely perfectly. Doesn't really affect the handling much. I get ridiculously thirsty is why, like ridiculously thirsty and that's when I'm not riding :S. Got another bottle cage under the downtube, for a gas canister for the future portable stove...have yet to get one yet! Hope M4 front brake and M4 Mini rear. Brooks B67 Saddle. Custom made rear mudguard from old air conditioner bit, not even joking. Nukeproof stem which looks badass as ****. Hope headset. Shimano XTR cranks, painted them really badly with those big cans of paint to give it that rugged look, mission accomplished! Straightline defacto pedals, which are awesome but I'm going to change, they just look too flashy and not rugged enough. Maybe some Burgtecs once I get the moneyssss... Running single speed, and it's great, tried gears but man I'm addicted to that stiff, rock solid feel of a good ol SS drivetrain. And if I have gears, I'm always wondering which gear is best, which one I should be in, efficiency, efficiency, efficiency. Where as on single speed, I just ride the damn bike, and I enjoy it at that. And like Alastair Humprey loves to say, it makes things more difficult, which equates to more fun! But the problem I have with it is that it feels quite sluggish, and it's a heck of a lot of work to pedal. Any advice on fixing that? And I'm really proud of this bike. I'm 16 (to put it into scale for you) and I earned every penny that went into it! Here's to the great adventures to come

    Surly ECR worth it?-img_2237.jpg
    Surly ECR worth it?-img_2235.jpgSurly ECR worth it?-img_2238.jpgSurly ECR worth it?-img_2239.jpg

  21. #21
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    Well done Officer! You've turned this bike into what it was designed to be - a utilitarian work horse without a lot of fuss over matching components and other fluff (way to go spray painting the crank!) Glad you've got it set up the way you like it.

    Kudos to you for being 16 and paying for it all yourself - you're on your way.

  22. #22
    Graveyard Shift
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    I like your component decisions, Officer, that front end in particular is serious.
    Long is the way, and hard.

  23. #23
    Two Headed Boy
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    Nice looking ride! Really makes me want an ECR even more.........temptation;P
    tSETFREEBYLOVEt

  24. #24
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    Surly ECR worth it?

    Officer friendly, in response to the bike feeling a bit sluggish, your seat looks low. Your pedaling will be more efficient with it set higher. Might make it feel a bit quicker. You probably already know this but I figured is throw it out there.

    Awesome bike by the way.



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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by OfficerFriendly View Post
    But the problem I have with it is that it feels quite sluggish, and it's a heck of a lot of work to pedal. Any advice on fixing that?
    I hate sluggish bikes.

    The three things I look at when this topic comes up are:

    1. overly stiff frame vs. rider weight/power and load

    2. stiff casing tires and excessive tread for the application

    3. overall bike weight

    Icecreamjay's point about the appropriate riding position is another one that I can quickly rule out about my own bikes, but something worth looking into if you aren't confident the bar/saddle/BB position is optimized already.

    I run the 120tpi Knards and they roll pretty well on pavement considering they are a MTB tire. The other two items above are quite personal and are measured relative to your weight and power.

    A frame/build that works fine for me at 185lbs and average power could feel like a tank for my 120lbs low power GF.

    This also depends a lot on what your expectations are. What are the points of comparison that make you feel the ECR is sluggish?

    The ECR is a touring rig so unloaded it wouldn't be unexpected that it doesn't feel as responsive as a bike designed for unloaded riding.

    FWIW - I just switched from a Surly LHT to a Straggler because the LHT rode like a tank unloaded and that didn't make me happy.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

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