Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 60
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    61

    El Mariachi vs Krampus vs ECR

    I did a seach and couldn't find a good comparison. First post So hope I put this in the right place. The wife agreed to let me invest in a new ride this spring/summer. I have narrowed down my choices to the three listed, based on what I want to to do. Athough I have never bike packed I am obsessed and working on my first trip. That being said thats my driving motivation for the three choices. They all seem to be solid bikes. My other bikes include a SS rigid karate monkey (which i do the majority of my mtb riding), and a novara ponderosa 29er hard tail (mainly for cruising around town). So this new addition would need to be fun to ride, as capable loaded as it is with just a water bottle, dependable, and availability to add an internal rear hub (daydreaming about rohloff). I love the idea of simplisity! I was sold on the el mariachi until I met the 29+ Krampus. I was futher torn when I read about the 29+ ECR. I have time to decide but test rides are tough in St. Louis when the Krampus is the only stocked bike Ive seen. I have seen countless reviews of each bike, but a comparison or owners opinions are hard to come by.

    I apprecite all the input!

    sorry if I missed an identical prevous thread

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    91
    FWIW (and I confess I never follow this advice, but I always wish that I had . . .), at least do an S24O before you decide. The Karate Monkey is a very capable bikepacking rig. Get out there and do a trip or two. I guarantee it will change your perspective more than any test ride.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    425
    Sounds lame, but...It's not about the bike. You already have a great one to use. Use it. Too many people spend too much time thinking about bikes and gear and never really make it out the door.

    Go ride one of your bikes on a trip first. I bet you love it.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by owlish View Post
    fwiw (and i confess i never follow this advice, but i always wish that i had . . .), at least do an s24o before you decide. The karate monkey is a very capable bikepacking rig. Get out there and do a trip or two. I guarantee it will change your perspective more than any test ride.
    s240?

  5. #5
    Team Captain
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,326
    sub 24 hour overnight. go ride your karate monkey into the woods and stay there. when you come out of the woods, you'll realize your KM is a fine steed and the money can be spent on new camping gear and bags and tires and such.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    61
    Gotcha that's actually my plan before it gets cold. Possibly even have somebody shuttle me out and ride back on our epic local. This is one of those budget issues that if I don't use it I'll loose it. I love my KM and use it regularly, but I would like to have a suspension or 3" tire to eat up some bumps. Plus I would like the bike to be geared. I want the KM to stay rigid and ss but over 30 miles of singletrack might not be... Well comfortable. One reason I bought the KM was the versatility but I choose to keep it ss and rigid. Great suggestions I do appreciate it but I hope that makes sense why I'm looking for the geared bikepacking bike.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sasquatch rides a SS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,559
    Check out the Surly and Salsa forums for some specific info on each bike. Each bike (including what you currently own) is plenty capable, but I understand wanting something new, especially if your wife is ok with it

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    525
    I wouldn't get an El Mariachi unless I was planning on getting rid of the Karate Monkey, they are too similar. A Krampus and an ECR have the same geometry but are set up differently as completes. The ECR is going to be better for bikepacking, but there's nothing stopping you from throwing a normal riser or flat bar on it and shredding like it was a Krampus. Ultimately though I would consider getting an Ogre fork or a Fargo fork for your Karate Monkey, maybe build a 29+ front wheel ( it will fit) and spending the money you would spend on the new bike on a wicked sweet bike packing gear set-up. The lighter your gear, the more fun you will have doing this.

    You could also get a suspension fork for your KM, a threadless fork is very easy to swap out if you can align a brake caliper.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    Check out the Surly and Salsa forums for some specific info on each bike. Each bike (including what you currently own) is plenty capable, but I understand wanting something new, especially if your wife is ok with it
    Thanks great advise! I did look on both surly and salsa forums. I also looked on YouTube and other forums that's how I found ECR. I was hoping for some practical application. I'd love to get an opinion from some one who has used the mariachi and krampus (ECR will be tough cause heard it's not out yet) in a BPing application. The other problem is, correct me if I'm wrong but the 29+ class is a new niche. Not a ton of info.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by Iamrockandroll13 View Post
    I wouldn't get an El Mariachi unless I was planning on getting rid of the Karate Monkey, they are too similar. A Krampus and an ECR have the same geometry but are set up differently as completes. The ECR is going to be better for bikepacking, but there's nothing stopping you from throwing a normal riser or flat bar on it and shredding like it was a Krampus. Ultimately though I would consider getting an Ogre fork or a Fargo fork for your Karate Monkey, maybe build a 29+ front wheel ( it will fit) and spending the money you would spend on the new bike on a wicked sweet bike packing gear set-up. The lighter your gear, the more fun you will have doing this.

    You could also get a suspension fork for your KM, a threadless fork is very easy to swap out if you can align a brake caliper.
    Wanted to keep the KM rigid/ss pure it's my training bike. but I thought about the ogre fork. But was under the impression that it would have to be a 26" pugsly type setup. For that matter I'd consider a Mukluk frame with 29+ wheel set. As far as the ECR that almost sounds like the most versatile. With the availability fenders and racks or frame bags. Another question what's more durable el mar front sus fork or a 29x 3" knard I heard the sidewalls are bittersweet. Soft to allow for flex/traction/float but puncture easy.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sasquatch rides a SS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,559
    Since you've got some time, be sure to do a lot research on the different bikes. The Krampus and ECR do NOT have the same geometry, so make sure to really consider how you'll be riding the bike for the majority of the time. Talk to vikb about bike packing on a Krampus, he is a wealth of knowledge on the topic. There is a ton of info on MTBR on the Krampus (I mean a TON), and I would assume the same for the El Mariachi, more will come rushing in on the ECR with time. There is already a lot of info on that bike outside of MTBR. Good luck in your search I do suggest trying 29+, my Krampus is a fantastic bike, definitely my favorite!

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    525
    I stand corrected, just checked out the actual geo charts and they are quite different. I was just eyeballed them and they looked the same, much like the KM/Ogre.

  13. #13
    ECR
    ECR is offline
    carfree
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    174
    I believe the 29" Rabbit Hole with Knard fits on the front of the Karate Monkey. Why don't you try that first?

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    753
    This is completely unhelpful, but I've got an El Mariachi and it's awesome. But I really wish I had a Krampus as well.
    While it's an awesome looking bike, I don't really get the point of the ECR. To me, it seems like a laid back Krampus with the ability to haul more shit. Personally, I try to carry as little stuff as possible, so I would definitely choose the Krampus over the ECR. However, I've ridden neither of them...

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,128


    I've enjoyed bikepacking with my Krampus this last year. It has a Rohloff since you mentioned that was of interest to you.

    It's a very capable bike you can setup a lot of different ways.

    Having said that if you own a Karate Monkey I would just start riding on that. There is no place I've gone on my Krampus that I couldn't go on a KM.

    You can set it up with a 1 x 10 for some gears a lot cheaper than buying a new bike. Swapping between 1 x 10 and SS isn't a huge chore if you want to keep it simple for trail riding.

    Once you have some bikepacking experience under your belt you will be in a much better position to determine what bike would be ideal for your needs.

    Comparison reviews are a bit tough - especially given the ECR is still just starting to trickle out. You could leave a comment for Cass over at While Out Riding Blog. He has toured on an Ogre and a Krampus so at least you'd get some idea of the difference between the bike you have and one of the 29+ options.

    I've never ridden an El Mar and unlikely to ever ride an ECR.
    Last edited by vikb; 11-20-2013 at 10:21 AM.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,128
    Quote Originally Posted by willapajames View Post
    While it's an awesome looking bike, I don't really get the point of the ECR. To me, it seems like a laid back Krampus with the ability to haul more shit. Personally, I try to carry as little stuff as possible, so I would definitely choose the Krampus over the ECR. However, I've ridden neither of them...


    Just to clarify there is nothing you are going to haul with an ECR you can't haul with a Krampus.

    You can put water bottle cages on the Krampus DT [see pic in post above] on the fork legs and on the stem. You can haul dual racks and panniers if you like. You can haul a trailer with the Krampus.

    The important difference between the two is the geometry and BB height.

    That's how I would select between the Krampus and the ECR not based on a few brazeons that you don't need to mount stuff.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  17. #17
    Big wheels keep on rollin
    Reputation: senor_mikey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    293
    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Comparison reviews are a bit tough - especially given the ECR is still just starting to trickle out. You could leave a comment for Cass over at While Out Riding Blog. He has toured on a KM and a Krampus so at least you'd get some idea of the difference between the bike you have and one of the 29+ options.
    Cass rides an Ogre actually, almost identical to the KM, just missing a few braze-ons.

    Reviews on the ECR are starting to trickle out. All have been positive about the bike and ride. Obviously, since the Krampus has been out for a while there are many more reviews to read. The one note I would make is that the Krampus BB drop is even higher than the KM or Ogre so with the designed 3" tires you will sit another ~ inch higher. I'm one of those who like lower BB so the ECR makes more sense to me, but the guys on Krampus's don't seem to notice any issues so you'd have decide for yourself.

    So my recommendation would be for an ECR or Krampus as they are more adaptable. 3" tires one day off road and a 2.2 or 2.3 tire ( like the Scwalbe Big Apple) for more mixed terrain.

    mike

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post


    I've enjoyed bikepacking with my Krampus this last year. It has a Rohloff since you mentioned that was of interest to you.

    It's a very capable bike you can setup a lot of different ways.

    Having said that if you own a Karate Monkey I would just start riding on that. There is no place I've gone on my Krampus that I couldn't go on a KM.

    You can set it up with a 1 x 10 for some gears a lot cheaper than buying a new bike. Swapping between 1 x 10 and SS isn't a huge chore if you want to keep it simple for trail riding.

    Once you have some bikepacking experience under your belt you will be in a much better position to determine what bike would be ideal for your needs.

    Comparison reviews are a bit tough - especially given the ECR is still just starting to trickle out. You could leave a comment for Cass over at While Out Riding Blog. He has toured on an Ogre and a Krampus so at least you'd get some idea of the difference between the bike you have and one of the 29+ options.

    I've never ridden an El Mar and unlikely to ever ride an ECR.
    Can you elaborate as to whether or not the knards are durable? Do people run them tubless? How many spare tires are people bringing? I liked the idea of the Krampus serving two purposes, fun/BPing. If the Krampus can carry everything the ECR can, then whats cheaper?

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,128
    Quote Originally Posted by Philthyssvirgin View Post
    Can you elaborate as to whether or not the knards are durable? Do people run them tubless? How many spare tires are people bringing? I liked the idea of the Krampus serving two purposes, fun/BPing. If the Krampus can carry everything the ECR can, then whats cheaper?
    Knards are not particularly durable. I don't carry a spare tire on tour. I figure I can kludge something together good enough to get me back to the trailhead. So far I have had one pinch flat [my fault for running too low pressure] and one legit flat [sliver of rock or wood]. This is all BC riding.

    I run my Knards tubed, but other people run them tubeless successfully.

    I have no idea what the retail cost of a Krampus vs. an ECR would be, but I think it's a mistake to buy on price given neither will be cheap. Look at the geometry and BB height as well as the sizing. Possibly the parts spec. I would pick based on those factors.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  20. #20
    Positively negative
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,027
    Quote Originally Posted by willapajames View Post
    While it's an awesome looking bike, I don't really get the point of the ECR.
    You and me both.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Knards are not particularly durable. I don't carry a spare tire on tour. I figure I can kludge something together good enough to get me back to the trailhead. So far I have had one pinch flat [my fault for running too low pressure] and one legit flat [sliver of rock or wood]. This is all BC riding.

    I run my Knards tubed, but other people run them tubeless successfully.

    I have no idea what the retail cost of a Krampus vs. an ECR would be, but I think it's a mistake to buy on price given neither will be cheap. Look at the geometry and BB height as well as the sizing. Possibly the parts spec. I would pick based on those factors.
    From what I read:
    ECR bottom bracket height is lower than Krampus (dont know exact numbers) and the ECR chainstays are longer than krampus. I believe (dont quote me) the price is $2000 ECR vs $1700 Krampus. So whats your preference lowered BB stretcher bike loaded with brazeons or its brother taller BB shorter and ready for technical trails. Sounds like both are heavy, but who cares.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sasquatch rides a SS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,559
    Quote Originally Posted by willapajames View Post
    ...I don't really get the point of the ECR...
    Why not? It's the first time Surly has truly designated a trail from a touring mountain bike for a given wheel size based on geometry. The Troll vs. 1x1 and Ogre vs. KM have almost, if not completely identical geometry. That means that really the only difference between a Troll and 1x1 or Ogre and KM are the braze-ons and color. The ECR actually is a completely different bike from the Krampus, which I think serves a great purpose. Now you truly have 2 choices from Surly with a 29+ wheel, not just two identical bikes, one with braze-ons and one without, like you get with their other bikes. This pleases both trail riders and touring riders, without having to make them use the same bike for both purposes. ECR is a great choice from Surly IMO.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,128
    Quote Originally Posted by Philthyssvirgin View Post
    From what I read:
    ECR bottom bracket height is lower than Krampus (dont know exact numbers) and the ECR chainstays are longer than krampus. I believe (dont quote me) the price is $2000 ECR vs $1700 Krampus. So whats your preference lowered BB stretcher bike loaded with brazeons or its brother taller BB shorter and ready for technical trails. Sounds like both are heavy, but who cares.
    I bought the Krampus in a medium vs. a large to get a shorter more manoeuvrable bike. I also live in very rocky & rooty terrain so I like the higher BB. I wanted a mountain bike to tour on which is what the Krampus is. The big wheels/tires add a ton of stability when the bike is moving so I've had no issues on that front.

    I should note that the Krampus' BB height with RHs and Knards is ~12" with me on the bike. That's not particularly high compared to the other MTBs I ride.

    I bought my Krampus as a frame/fork so the parts spec on the complete and overall cost played no part in my decision.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  24. #24
    ECR
    ECR is offline
    carfree
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    174
    Folks who have never ridden the ECR not getting it, I wonder why? ...lol

    Folks I talk with that have actually ridden both Krampus and ECR say overall they preferred the handling of the ECR especially if they were going to be traveling any distance, but hey what do they know? Do you think perhaps the folks at Surly just might be getting it? The BB on the ECR is already taller than both the Troll and Ogre and nearly same height as the Karate Monkey. Now why do you think they didn't make it any taller?

    YMMV (after you have ridden one)

  25. #25
    ECR
    ECR is offline
    carfree
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    174
    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Just to clarify there is nothing you are going to haul with an ECR you can't haul with a Krampus.
    that's a bold statement!


  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,128
    Quote Originally Posted by ECR View Post
    that's a bold statement!

    I can haul more than 2 growlers on my Krampus without breaking a sweat.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by ECR View Post
    that's a bold statement!

    now thats a beautiful thing!!!

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    104
    I have a single speed el mariachi that I absolutely love. I imagined I'd do all my bikepacking from it but am now dead set on the ECR. I want those big tires and I prefer the geometry to the Krampus for touring. Lower BB, longer chainstays, shorter top tube, and a lower front end (shorter fork). The complete ECR should be a pretty good deal the downsides being the hubs and 27tpi tires. I also personally dislike those Microsoft thumbies, although I can imagine a touring bike being the best application for them. Just something else to think about. How are the knards on dirt roads and pavement? My one hang up is, being in the northeast, I don't want stretches of road to be completely miserable....

  29. #29
    ECR
    ECR is offline
    carfree
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    174
    My only experience with Knards has been a couple test rides, but from my experience I can say the handling on both dirt and asphalt roads was superb. I imagine that asphalt is going to wear your Knard quicker, but if you gotta ride 'em on asphalt occasionally to get where you're go'n don't deprive yourself of a good time!

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,128
    Quote Originally Posted by Rednblackbike View Post
    How are the knards on dirt roads and pavement? My one hang up is, being in the northeast, I don't want stretches of road to be completely miserable....
    I've done lots of forest service road riding on Knards are they roll great on that terrain. I've done a full day of pavement riding to close of a loop off dirt on a tour and it was fine. As mountain bike tires go the Knards roll well on hard surfaces. I wouldn't go out of my way to ride paved roads with them, but a day of it here and there on tour isn't going to be an issue.

    Knards aren't a super durable tire so you can wear out the 27tpi stock units and replace them with whatever you like.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sasquatch rides a SS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,559
    Quote Originally Posted by Rednblackbike View Post
    ...How are the knards on dirt roads and pavement?...
    They roll pretty well if you run a higher psi. I did a 12 mile paved ride with my Krampus with the tires pretty firm and had no issues, along with other random bits of pavement use. It actually rode surprisingly well. The tight tread and round profile really help with pavement and dry hardpack, much better than any other offroad tires with very open tread and square profile. The Knards will wear out fast with a lot of pavement use, though.

  32. #32
    ECR
    ECR is offline
    carfree
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    174
    Quote Originally Posted by Rednblackbike View Post
    The complete ECR should be a pretty good deal the downsides being the hubs and 27tpi tires. I also personally dislike those Microsoft thumbies, although I can imagine a touring bike being the best application for them. Just something else to think about.
    Do you have LBS who could build you one? My LBS will build a stock Surly for less than a complete bike. They give something like a 25% discount on parts when they build the bike for you. Then you can also have them substitute any parts you want for the build. With the savings you could probably upgrade the hubs and tires and still save money over the cost of a stock bike. Doesn't cost anything to get a quote.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    104
    Thanks for the feedback Re: Knards on pavement. Thats exactly what I wanted to hear and am now even more excited for the ECR. Im not expecting to spend much time on the pavement, mostly trail, double track, and dirt road (up here in vermont we have more dirt than pavement). Thanks for the feedback y'all.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    61
    Well then I'm pretty sold on the krampus or ECR I guess I just need to test ride. Whats wrong with the hubs? Any other 29+ tire options yet?

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,128
    Quote Originally Posted by Philthyssvirgin View Post
    Any other 29+ tire options yet?


    Vee 8 - not released yet as far as I know.



    Surly Dirt Wizard supposed to be out spring 2014.

    Nothing else that I am aware of besides the Knard.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sasquatch rides a SS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,559
    Looking forward to those Dirt Wizards

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    104
    Oh, nothings wrong with the hubs. Rear is a basic shimano and front is the Surly ultra-new. Both are a good value - a little on the heavy side, but then again it might not make sense to try to make one of these "super light". I personally wouldnt want to rely on that shimano hub out in the back country. The surly front hub is totally fine and easy to work with.

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    476
    Correct judgment on the Shimano rear hubs. I work in a MTB rental shop and this year we have replaced upwards of 50 Shimano freehub bodies on SLX and XT level hubs. All of them failed completely in the field, giving customers only one option; a long walk out. They were mostly 12x142 thru axle hubs, as opposed to the lower tier quick release M529 supplied with the Krampus, which actually could be a stronger unit. But overall I have completely lost confidence, and I have been a staunch Shimano supporter for years.

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by jan_nikolajsen View Post
    Correct judgment on the Shimano rear hubs. I work in a MTB rental shop and this year we have replaced upwards of 50 Shimano freehub bodies on SLX and XT level hubs. All of them failed completely in the field, giving customers only one option; a long walk out. They were mostly 12x142 thru axle hubs, as opposed to the lower tier quick release M529 supplied with the Krampus, which actually could be a stronger unit. But overall I have completely lost confidence, and I have been a staunch Shimano supporter for years.
    Now that I think about it I had a shimano SLX hub fail (on a 2011 bike)on me two summers ago. I marked it up as a fluke. Although I'm not sure of the part number it sounds a little too ironic. My end goal is to run a rohloff so might as well run a stock drivetrain 1x10 and switch it out when I have the cash.

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    61
    Other than cycle monkey or eBay anybody know where to pick up used or discounted rohloff?

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    753
    Quote Originally Posted by jan_nikolajsen View Post
    Correct judgment on the Shimano rear hubs. I work in a MTB rental shop and this year we have replaced upwards of 50 Shimano freehub bodies on SLX and XT level hubs. All of them failed completely in the field, giving customers only one option; a long walk out. They were mostly 12x142 thru axle hubs, as opposed to the lower tier quick release M529 supplied with the Krampus, which actually could be a stronger unit. But overall I have completely lost confidence, and I have been a staunch Shimano supporter for years.
    The good thing about Shimano freehubs is they're widely available and easy to replace. The Formula/Salsa hub on my El Mariachi shit the bed (free hub siezed up) and I replaced it with an XT/Mavic setup, as I've had great luck with that setup. The Stans rims seem quite wimpy too.

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    104
    Yeah, availability is in your favor with shimano, but it's not just the freehub. I've got a feeling the hub doesn't handle (disk) braking force very well and it seems like this translates as the drive side cone and locknut loosening from each other. Call me crazy, but I've seen those suckers tightened down really well and still after not too long that drive side cone has tightened itself down against the bearings wrecking the cone, the beings, and sometimes the cup. I just wouldn't trut in the middle of nowhere.

    Krampus vs ECR, that's a pickle. I know plenty who bikepack just fine from their Krampus. Maybe think about how you wnt to ride the thing without all the gear for a camping trip? If you want a ripping trail bike when your not touring, the krampus would be wise. If you want a day-tripper with more stability then the ECR might be more enjoyable.

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    476
    Right, the loosening (or over-tightening) of cones/nuts during use is another longstanding Shimano hub disorder.

    The hub to have on an adventure bike, IMO, is a DT Swiss 350. The part that typical fail on a freehub is the pawl/ratchet mechanism. On the DT hubs one can carry a spare set of star ratchets basically without any weight penalty, and (the most important part) replace them using no tools besides one's hands.

    Yes, $200 is steep, and not everybody is willing to pony up that sort of dough for merely a hub. But in our area the freehub is one of the three most common things that will turn a bike ride into a hike for the unprepared, therefore I think worthy of a back-up plan. The other two are flats, off course, and broken chains, both easily covered with simple means.

    EDIT: Forgot to point out the ease of replacing broken spokes on 350 rear hubs when the cassette can be removed without tools.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    104
    Thoughts on Rims? Happy with rabbit holes? Should I wait for the Velocity Dually or the potential Stan's offering? All will be similarly priced. 45mm Dually may offer the ability to size down to a smaller tire, if you wanted to do a dirt road/fire road tour (would want to be careful about dropping the BB too much on the ECR).

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,128
    Quote Originally Posted by Rednblackbike View Post
    Thoughts on Rims? Happy with rabbit holes? Should I wait for the Velocity Dually or the potential Stan's offering? All will be similarly priced. 45mm Dually may offer the ability to size down to a smaller tire, if you wanted to do a dirt road/fire road tour (would want to be careful about dropping the BB too much on the ECR).
    Some folks have had issues with their Duallys [posts on page 5 FWD].

    New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually

    I have used other Velocity rims with no issues so not suggesting you don't buy them just a FYI. Perhaps let the first production run sell out and score some from the next batch.

    The Stan's rims sound interesting and they'll be easy to setup tubeless, but no idea when they'll actually hit the shelves.

    I don't regret using Rabbit Holes. I could be tempted by some Stan's rims in a couple seasons if they live up to expectations.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  46. #46
    beer *****es n' bikes
    Reputation: seely's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    663
    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Some folks have had issues with their Duallys [posts on page 5 FWD].

    New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually

    I have used other Velocity rims with no issues so not suggesting you don't buy them just a FYI. Perhaps let the first production run sell out and score some from the next batch.
    For what its worth, we got the "cracked" rim back, and it is definitely not cracked, but has some sort of (likely our fault) flaw. It looks like the spoke hole got gouged a bit, and something left a long scratch along the web.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hendricks97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    96
    If youre looking for a bike packing specific bike, why not throw the Fargo into the mix? I picked up a 13 Ti Fargo and its the sweetest ride Ive ever owned.

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,128
    Nick wrote a great post about touring with an ECR:

    Dissecting the Surly ECR | gypsy by trade
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  49. #49
    ECR
    ECR is offline
    carfree
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    174
    When ability to cross large expanses of snow or sand becomes the most important aspect in your ride then fat tire bikes rule that roost.

    When trail-riding becomes the most important aspect in your ride the Krampus is a rigid alternative to hard tails like the El Mariachi on majority of trails, but for the more challenging trails then full suspension bikes rule that roost.

    Of course you can camp with ANY of the above mentioned bikes, but when off-road adventure camping/touring becomes the most important aspect in your ride then it certainly looks like Surly has nailed it with this one!...


    Nick Carman: "ECR is an exploration camping rig, nonpareil."
    Dissecting the Surly ECR | gypsy by trade

    Andy Duncan: "ECR is currently at the pinnacle of off-road touring bike technology...I can't imagine a better platform for the dedicated off-road adventurers I've had the good fortune to encounter"
    Big Dummy Daddy

    Surly: "ECR is a sure-footed, multi-terrain, offroad-obsessed 29+ camp bike."
    ECR | Bikes | Surly Bikes


    It should be fun following Logan on his African adventure...
    Surly ECR: Built and Packed in 2 Days - Pedaling Nowhere
    Last edited by ECR; 12-09-2013 at 02:10 PM.

  50. #50
    Positively negative
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,027
    Quote Originally Posted by ECR View Post
    When ability to cross large expanses of snow or sand becomes the most important aspect in your ride then fat tire bikes rule that roost.

    When trail-riding becomes the most important aspect in your ride the Krampus is a rigid alternative to hard tails like the El Mariachi on majority of trails, but for the more challenging trails then full suspension bikes rule that roost.

    Of course you can camp with ANY of the above mentioned bikes, but when off-road adventure camping/touring becomes the most important aspect in your ride then it certainly looks like Surly has nailed it with this one!...


    Nick Carman: "ECR is an exploration camping rig, nonpareil."
    Dissecting the Surly ECR | gypsy by trade

    Andy Duncan: "ECR is currently at the pinnacle of off-road touring bike technology...I can't imagine a better platform for the dedicated off-road adventurers I've had the good fortune to encounter"
    Big Dummy Daddy

    Surly: "ECR is a sure-footed, multi-terrain, offroad-obsessed 29+ camp bike."
    ECR | Bikes | Surly Bikes


    It should be fun following Logan on his African adventure...
    Surly ECR: Built and Packed in 2 Days - Pedaling Nowhere
    Don't get me wrong, I don't care what other people ride and I'm even starting to see some niches for the ECR, but I think most people would be better served with an Ogre or KM (maybe with a Fargo fork) as this would allow them to still run 29+ when needed but also traditional mid width tires for commuting/touring and you don't get stuck with needing special wheels. Heck, most of the ECRs I have seen didn't even have 29+ on them.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Krampus + Really fat?
    By Weinerts in forum Fat bikes
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-30-2014, 06:50 AM
  2. Krampus ETT: wow.
    By ink1373 in forum Surly
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-27-2013, 01:19 PM
  3. Salsa El Mariachi 2 vs El Mariachi 3
    By BillyL in forum 29er Bikes
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-27-2013, 08:51 AM
  4. Krampus in CO
    By x-wing fighter in forum 29er Bikes
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-11-2013, 08:30 PM
  5. Krampus
    By bmike in forum Fat bikes
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 12-13-2012, 11:07 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •