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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackLovr View Post
    I am starting to make small adjustment on my new29er. Something doesn't quite feel right on this one compared to my other two 26" mtn bikes.

    After about 10 miles the palms of my hands are going numb and the muscles in my lower back(each side of my lower spine) are stiff.
    If I lay on my back for 5 minutes they relax and I am good for the remainder of the trip. I don't experience this with my other bikes. All three bikes are FS.

    I currently have the seat adjusted so my knee is only slightly bent at the bottom of the stroke.
    My knees are 3-4 inches forward of the crank.
    Bar height is equal to the saddle height.
    My bike came with a 90mm stem and I felt a little too low and stretched out with a lot of weight on my hands so I'm going to try a 40mm stem.

    If the numbness persists I plan to try new handlebars with some rise and maybe a stem that has a bit more rise. To get a more upright position.
    Unfortunately Rocky Mtn cut my fork and there is no additional space to raise the bars.

    Any suggestions on the proper bike fit specific to bikepacking off road?

    thanks

    I agree with a lot of the points in these replies. The bike looks too big for you, but it is what you have soooo...drop the nose of the saddle so you are not fighting sliding off the back...I think you mentioned you did this. As you bring the hbar back and up towards you, you will also increase the pressure on your sit bones and strain your back more with pedal efforts. Too upright and you cannot bring the proper muscle groups into play like you can with a correct position. So if flexibility is an issue for you, how about working on your fitness and flexibility instead of building a less efficient bike around your physical limits at this time? I am a back surgery patient so I know there can be wear and tear limitations on our old bods, but seldom is there a case where we cannot improve our flexibility.

    Just a thought.

    I do not think there is a 'bikepacking bike fit'. I do not change my setup much at all across SS, geared HTs, FS and whatever. Seat height and relation to hbar is the same. That fit is right for me and there is nothing about bikepacking that demands anything different. Now if I was on a DH bike, then OK....but that is not the case.

    As well, having the saddle too far forward will typically increase, not decrease weight on the hbars. Sounds counter intuitive, but placing your weight properly on the saddle fore-aft and in a decent relation to the crank is primary.

    Also, learn to set up your bikes suspension properly. Just saying I will add 25# and see what happens is like pin the tail on the donkey. Learn to do it right...set sag with the shocks fully open and go from there. That bike with Propedal on should be quite comfy on a rail trail surface.

    That goes for tire pressure too. 80 pounds! I am not even sure the tires are rated for that and you are NOT helping performance in any meaningful way by being at that PSI. Even 45psi is pretty high but in the ballpark.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entrenador View Post
    I had the same issue with the a Brooks saddle (not with any other brands though), and the one I still use on my commuter does have a very slight nose-up tilt to it now because of it. Keep in mind that if you end up bumping uo the rear suspension preload/psi, it will slightly effect your cockpit, saddle tilt included. If you're planning trying different pressures, be ready to make further incremental adjustments to your cockpit. Is it convenient / worth posting a pic of you in riding position on the bike from the side?
    Thanks again for your continued support and tips.
    I'm having a blast taking my shock pump and tools along for my daily rides. Sessioning sections of my local trail with different setting.

    I currently have the fork/shock sag set at 1/2" to increase ride comfort, no jumping no dropoffs other than the occasional curb.
    What I've noticed with this softer setting and equal static sag is the fork/shock do not compress equal amounts when sucking up a bump. If I want to see the o-ring indicator move the same amount the shock required more air so the static sag is no longer equal.

    Quote Originally Posted by t0pcat View Post
    I'm not an expert but when faced with the problem your having i started with what i understand are the basics, first i adjusted my seat so my knee was over the center of the pedal in the 3 oclock position then seat height till it felt uncomfortably high and back down a touch then i took some measurements from all my bikes. First crank to top of seat then nose of seat to the crack in the stem above the bar then crank to crack in stem above the bar and discovered that my other bikes were within about 1/4" in those measurements so i set up thenew 1 to mimic those and was happy. Am still tweaking here and there but this seems to work for me!
    Thank you for the tips t0pcat. I couldn't agree more. I did all the basic setup adjustment before my first ride. This 29er is just a little different than my two 26ers.

    I'm setting this bike up for more long distance riding, rails to trails nothing technical, and finding the static riding position for long period of time is giving me some pain in my palms and lower back.
    Some of this I'm sure is core body strength, palms and back are not use to riding in one position for so long without changing positions. Once I get the bike adjusted for minimum pain the rest will be fixed with hours in the seat. I'm close and having a ball seeing how the bike and my body responds to different settings. thanks again I really have learned a lot from this discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by mtroy View Post
    I agree with a lot of the points in these replies. The bike looks too big for you, but it is what you have soooo...drop the nose of the saddle so you are not fighting sliding off the back...I think you mentioned you did this. As you bring the hbar back and up towards you, you will also increase the pressure on your sit bones and strain your back more with pedal efforts. Too upright and you cannot bring the proper muscle groups into play like you can with a correct position. So if flexibility is an issue for you, how about working on your fitness and flexibility instead of building a less efficient bike around your physical limits at this time? I am a back surgery patient so I know there can be wear and tear limitations on our old bods, but seldom is there a case where we cannot improve our flexibility.

    Just a thought.

    I do not think there is a 'bikepacking bike fit'. I do not change my setup much at all across SS, geared HTs, FS and whatever. Seat height and relation to hbar is the same. That fit is right for me and there is nothing about bikepacking that demands anything different. Now if I was on a DH bike, then OK....but that is not the case.

    As well, having the saddle too far forward will typically increase, not decrease weight on the hbars. Sounds counter intuitive, but placing your weight properly on the saddle fore-aft and in a decent relation to the crank is primary.

    Also, learn to set up your bikes suspension properly. Just saying I will add 25# and see what happens is like pin the tail on the donkey. Learn to do it right...set sag with the shocks fully open and go from there. That bike with Propedal on should be quite comfy on a rail trail surface.

    That goes for tire pressure too. 80 pounds! I am not even sure the tires are rated for that and you are NOT helping performance in any meaningful way by being at that PSI. Even 45psi is pretty high but in the ballpark.
    Great tips mtroy. I will try and get a picture of me in the riding position.
    I'm starting to agree with you on riding position for bikepacking vs say XC riding.
    With all my tweaks so far I am getting closer and closer to the riding position I have on my XC and DH 26" bikes. There is still plenty of weight on the bars so I don't think I'm setting up too high like a street cruiser bikes riding position.

    This frame does not feel too large. For me the longer wheel base is way more comfortable on the non techy stuff.
    Part of the reason the seat post isn't up like a XC racer is I'm running 175mm cranks and only have a 33" inseam. I can get two fingers between my top tube and crotch. The post has 0 setback but the seat is centered on the seat mount bars with no need to adjust the seat forward. My knees are 3-4" in front of the crank.

    The bike came with what I considered narrow bars.
    I prefer wider bars so I swapped to 720mm requiring a shorter stem going from 110 to 60. Still the handlebars felt to low. So I raised the bars about 1" with a new stem.
    This seemed to fix my hand pain and my riding position is more like my other two bikes. So I'm down to messing with the seat tilt for most comfort and shock/fork pressure to smooth out the bumps.

    Thanks again for the tips and discussion.

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  3. #28
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    Looking thru my photos this is as close as I can come to me on this bike for now.
    Man does that curved mirror make me look fat. haha




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  4. #29
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    Hiya SingleTrackLovr, I like your choice of saddle but not the angle you have it - but thats just a personal riding preference. I was thinking maybe you could get a bigger (more rise) riser bar than you think you want and aim the rise towards you a bit to leave you less stretched out and shorten the cockpit. Not sure how it would go as it was just a thought. Does that make sense?

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
    Hiya SingleTrackLovr, I like your choice of saddle but not the angle you have it - but thats just a personal riding preference. I was thinking maybe you could get a bigger (more rise) riser bar than you think you want and aim the rise towards you a bit to leave you less stretched out and shorten the cockpit. Not sure how it would go as it was just a thought. Does that make sense?
    Hi rifraf,
    Thanks for joining in the discussion. Good advice.
    I did raise the bars, shorten the stem, level the seat and the bike feels better.
    With a level seat my boys have a little trouble deciding which side of the seat they want to be on. I'm hoping to get that worked out.


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  6. #31
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    Maybe a jones h loop bar as it provides a variety of hand positions it is what i am looking at getting since i purchased my friends raced out epic marathon. Jeff Jones Bicycles - H-Bars

  7. #32
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    Bike Fit Specific to Bikepacking off road.

    I ended up buying the jones loop bar got it today will post in the rig topic

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unchewable View Post
    I ended up buying the jones loop bar got it today will post in the rig topic
    Hi Unchewable,
    let us know your impressions. I bought a large Surly Ogre frame to build up and am strongly considering the Jones loop bar to shorten the cockpit of my yet to be built ride.
    I'm sort of on the cusp of either M or L in frames. I like the amount of seat post showing but I'm aware that I'm going to feel stretched out on my choice of Large.
    I'm hoping a 50mm thomson x4 stem and Jones bar will help.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unchewable View Post
    I ended up buying the jones loop bar got it today will post in the rig topic
    I to would like to hear how this H bar works out for you. Some picts would be awesome.
    Having several hand position should really help.

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  10. #35
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    Bike Fit Specific to Bikepacking off road.

    Will do tonight and compare to my carbon fsa. I think you are on the right track with the Thomson stem I am pretty sure I will need to get a shorter stem myself. My bike is a medium and very aggressive for me as I bought it from my buddy who was going for light and fast gran fondo style.

  11. #36
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    I bet the bike isn't too big. I love my jones style bars. I can ride all day without issue. I would say that looking for a used titec version could be a good test for you. When I try a new setup I make sure to have some Allen keys around to make on the fly adjustments as necessary until it feels right.

    Also don't worry about whether your bike looks right to all. All that matters is that it feels right to you. If you are going for long days in the saddle, feel is most important.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unchewable View Post
    Will do tonight and compare to my carbon fsa. I think you are on the right track with the Thomson stem I am pretty sure I will need to get a shorter stem myself. My bike is a medium and very aggressive for me as I bought it from my buddy who was going for light and fast gran fondo style.
    Speaking of comparing bars.
    Yesterday I installed a cheap Al bar that has a little more sweep.
    Just to see how that feels. So far I like it.
    The H-bar looks like it has a bit more sweep.
    I was even thinking about a set of roadbike Aero bars but I think the H-Bars might be a better choice.

    Last edited by SingleTrackLovr; 03-22-2013 at 10:37 AM.

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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaultbrad View Post
    I bet the bike isn't too big. I love my jones style bars. I can ride all day without issue. I would say that looking for a used titec version could be a good test for you. When I try a new setup I make sure to have some Allen keys around to make on the fly adjustments as necessary until it feels right.

    Also don't worry about whether your bike looks right to all. All that matters is that it feels right to you. If you are going for long days in the saddle, feel is most important.
    Thanks Vaultbrad, I'll be on the look out for a used titec version.

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  14. #39
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    How does the effective top tube of your 29er compare with the ETT of your other mtb's? Is there a major difference?

  15. #40
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    Bike Fit Specific to Bikepacking off road.

    Was chasing daylight and loosing the race but here is a quick comparison shot. Bike Fit Specific to Bikepacking off road.-imageuploadedbytapatalk1364009663.766064.jpg and here Is the specs on my fsa bar for scale Bike Fit Specific to Bikepacking off road.-imageuploadedbytapatalk1364009865.055116.jpg. I will post finished shots of the hardware with the wtb grips they are similar to the gp1's.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaultbrad View Post
    I bet the bike isn't too big. I love my jones style bars. I can ride all day without issue. I would say that looking for a used titec version could be a good test for you.
    That is the track I've gone down. I managed to pick up a Titec J-bar, off ebay, to see me through until I've enough spare coin for the Jeff Jones version. I like the look of the J-bar but it doesn't look compatible with my Ortlieb handlebar bag so I definitely need the full loop. Still for $22-50Au. delivered I cant complain.

    I'm not too keen on buying from Jeffs site though. No paypal nor secure link it appears

    Bike Fit Specific to Bikepacking off road.-dsc05657.jpg
    Bike Fit Specific to Bikepacking off road.-dsc05673.jpg
    Bike Fit Specific to Bikepacking off road.-dsc05677.jpg

    For anyone whose budget doesnt yet stretch to the Jones bar, you might consider the
    Humpert Space Bugel Handlebar.
    I spotted some on ebay:
    ebay.com.au/itm/200894328442
    These look similar and are of similar dimensions with the main difference being they take a smaller stem diameter size and will need a bush(?)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Bike Fit Specific to Bikepacking off road.-dsc05646.jpg  

    Last edited by rifraf; 03-23-2013 at 04:40 AM.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JP... View Post
    How does the effective top tube of your 29er compare with the ETT of your other mtb's? Is there a major difference?
    Sorry JP I don't understand your question. You lost me with effective toptube and ETT.
    Both my 26"ers have a straight top tube that slopes. I have ~6" when standing over these bikes.
    04 Azonic

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    The bent toptube on the 29er really helps with stand over clearance. 29ers are taller.


    Quote Originally Posted by Unchewable View Post
    Was chasing daylight and loosing the race but here is a quick comparison shot. Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1364009663.766064.jpg 
Views:	867 
Size:	205.7 KB 
ID:	783644 and here Is the specs on my fsa bar for scale. I will post finished shots of the hardware with the wtb grips they are similar to the gp1's.
    Hi Unchewable, Thank you, your pict is exactly what I was looking for. I think I will order one of these @ $120 for the Al model.
    Would love to see your bike once you get the bars installed. What grips are you planning to use and will you be wrapping the bars?

    Quote Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
    That is the track I've gone down. I managed to pick up a Titec J-bar, off ebay, to see me through until I've enough spare coin for the Jeff Jones version. I like the look of the J-bar but it doesn't look compatible with my Ortlieb handlebar bag so I definitely need the full loop. Still for $22-50Au. delivered I cant complain.

    I'm not too keen on buying from Jeffs site though. No paypal nor secure link it appears

    For anyone whose budget doesnt yet stretch to the Jones bar, you might consider the
    Humpert Space Bugel Handlebar.
    I spotted some on ebay:
    ebay.com.au/itm/200894328442
    These look similar and are of similar dimensions with the main difference being they take a smaller stem diameter size and will need a bush(?)
    Thanks for the picts that is a very nice bar and you can't beat that price.
    I think I prefer the H over the J. I plan to mount my GPS and headlamp on it.
    I just got off the Jones site and they only offer Paypal.
    Last edited by SingleTrackLovr; 03-23-2013 at 09:10 AM.

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  18. #43
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    Bike Fit Specific to Bikepacking off road.

    Sure thing here you go. Bike Fit Specific to Bikepacking off road.-imageuploadedbytapatalk1364082379.433833.jpg

    Here is a close up of my WTB comfort grips. Also I choose the loop bar because non of the other chopped versions fit my shifters the way I liked.
    Bike Fit Specific to Bikepacking off road.-imageuploadedbytapatalk1364082461.262232.jpg

    The grips are great and act as a platform for my elbows when in the aero position.

  19. #44
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    Hi Unchewable, Thank you. That looks great.
    I use Ergo grip which should work the same as your WTB's as an elbow platform.
    Ordered the same H bar. I did not like the idea of putting my thumb shifters on the other side either.

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  20. #45
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    OP - a quick question that I believe is a good test for any bike fit, especially distance riding fit. It's been confirmed by a very experienced bike fitter I've worked with and seems to make a lot of sense. Also related to how I got over my 'climber's back' discomfort on my road bike. Maybe it'll help.
    Sit on your bike or ride as normal if you can ride hands-free. Unweight your hands but keep them over the grips, hovering if you like. Can you keep pedalling without using more than core body muscles to keep you in that position? If so, your saddle is putting your c of g in the right place and you shouldn't get too much hand / arm strain. If not, move it back until you can. You need to be balanced, not propped up by your arms. If your saddle tips you too far forward, almost no kind of short / high stem will correct that error.
    For the back pain, I found (via discussions with an experienced tri-TT rider) it was related to my tight hamstrings / lack of flexibility in this area, hamstrings pulling on my pelvis and causing lower back stress, I was advised to try moving my seat forward to straighten a little the angle between leg/hip and upper body - ie less hamstring stretch. I swapped a layback post for an inline, moved my bar up 5mm to help balance the slightly further fwd c of g and my lower back cramps just disappeared - from pain that made long hilly rides very uncomfortable at the end to hilly centuries in comfort (relatively!). This may be nothing to do with your problems, just saying for interest.

    I realise both these points recommend opposite adjustments to the saddle, but what I learned with all this is that saddle position is key to a good fit - bar position much less so and is only to be set up once saddle position gives you a balanced core / c of g position.

  21. #46
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    [QUOTE=SingleTrackLovr;10260266]Sorry JP I don't understand your question. You lost me with effective toptube and ETT.
    Both my 26"ers have a straight top tube that slopes. I have ~6" when standing over these bikes.[QUOTE]

    OK. Effective top tube (ETT) is the distance from your headtube to your seat tube in a horizontal line. Most modern bikes have sloping top tubes, so just measuring the top tube gives you a different measurement to what the actual, or effective, top tube length is. Measure that on your Rocky Mountain, and then your 26" bikes in the same way and compare.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by james-o View Post
    OP - a quick question that I believe is a good test for any bike fit, especially distance riding fit. It's been confirmed by a very experienced bike fitter I've worked with and seems to make a lot of sense. Also related to how I got over my 'climber's back' discomfort on my road bike. Maybe it'll help.
    Sit on your bike or ride as normal if you can ride hands-free. Unweight your hands but keep them over the grips, hovering if you like. Can you keep pedalling without using more than core body muscles to keep you in that position? If so, your saddle is putting your c of g in the right place and you shouldn't get too much hand / arm strain. If not, move it back until you can. You need to be balanced, not propped up by your arms. If your saddle tips you too far forward, almost no kind of short / high stem will correct that error.
    For the back pain, I found (via discussions with an experienced tri-TT rider) it was related to my tight hamstrings / lack of flexibility in this area, hamstrings pulling on my pelvis and causing lower back stress, I was advised to try moving my seat forward to straighten a little the angle between leg/hip and upper body - ie less hamstring stretch. I swapped a layback post for an inline, moved my bar up 5mm to help balance the slightly further fwd c of g and my lower back cramps just disappeared - from pain that made long hilly rides very uncomfortable at the end to hilly centuries in comfort (relatively!). This may be nothing to do with your problems, just saying for interest.

    I realise both these points recommend opposite adjustments to the saddle, but what I learned with all this is that saddle position is key to a good fit - bar position much less so and is only to be set up once saddle position gives you a balanced core / c of g position.
    Hi James, Thank you for the suggestions. I will give the CG test a try on my next ride and adjust accordingly.

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  23. #48
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    [QUOTE=JP...;10261735][QUOTE=SingleTrackLovr;10260266]Sorry JP I don't understand your question. You lost me with effective toptube and ETT.
    Both my 26"ers have a straight top tube that slopes. I have ~6" when standing over these bikes.

    OK. Effective top tube (ETT) is the distance from your headtube to your seat tube in a horizontal line. Most modern bikes have sloping top tubes, so just measuring the top tube gives you a different measurement to what the actual, or effective, top tube length is. Measure that on your Rocky Mountain, and then your 26" bikes in the same way and compare.
    Got ya. Using a steel tape measure, I measured from just below the head tube top bearing to just below the seat clamp.
    Azonic 21" , AS-X 22", RockyMtn 22.5"
    How does the effective top tube of your 29er compare with the ETT of your other mtb's? Is there a major difference? -JP
    So is 1/2 to 1 inch a major difference?
    Last edited by SingleTrackLovr; 03-23-2013 at 10:54 PM.

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  24. #49
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    Bike Fit Specific to Bikepacking off road.

    Great info I think you will like the jones bars. That center of gravity suggestion is awesome great info here, what a cool community.

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    "So is 1/2 to 1 inch a major difference" - about the same as a degree or 2 of seat angle change, a difference but as reach is affected by seat angle as well as ETT, could be lessened or compounded by seat angle variance between the bikes. Layback vs inline post, seat rail adjustments etc can all account for up to an inch.

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