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  1. #1
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    Whyte E120 Team equivalent build

    Hi, I was thinking about getting a Whyte E120 Team.

    Have demo-ed the XT which I liked a lot. However, it was a medium and I think I need a small and wanted to go for the E120Team option.

    http://www.whytebikes.com/2008/bike.php?ModNo=8E120Team

    My problem is that you can get the frame but not the complete bike.

    So... my question is that if you are getting the frame and getting it built up what would you change from the E120 Teams spec???

    My budget is approx. £4K ($8K USD) but could stretch to £4.5K.

    The type of riding I do is a combo of Cross Country and Downhill. I ride my bike at least 4 -5 days a week including to work 3 days a week so it has to be usable and enjoyable to ride.

    I am 36yrs old, weigh 88kg and I am 5'8" tall. I am also reasonably hard on gear

    I want to use the Local Bike Shop as long as they can do me a reasonable deal.

    People are welcome to offer an alternative suggestions to issues such as budget, bikes already considered, and sources?

    Thanks in advance

    Nick

  2. #2
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    That's a nice looking bike. Like they said, it's pretty much an "ultimate wish list spec". Personally I like the UST system, so I'd change to UST rim like the Mavic 819. Heck your budget can probably handle it, go for Chris King hubs too. Also a Crank Bros. Joplin seatpost would be really nice to have.

  3. #3
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    What would I change about the spec? all of the kit on there is solid stuff that will perform great but the rear Hope hub would make too much noise for me so I’d probably use XTR hubs, the Fizik Gobi saddle is bloody uncomfortable so I’d swap that for a Charge Spoon Ti but that personal preference and you may find it perfectly comfortable. I would rather have Conty Mountain King 2.2 Protection tires rather than those and the brakes, purely because I have no experience with Hope I would put Hayes Stroker’s on there.

    Try to get the 15mm through axle system on the front which I believe fits XTR hubs among others and will go nicely with the Big Gripper rear dropouts.

    Apart from those things you may want to look at I think the spec is pretty much perfect, as is the bike, I don’t think there are many other bikes that even come close to that, possibly the Ibis Mojo but there is no point splitting hairs cos neither will win, so go get to work on the build.

  4. #4
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    Thanks, great input.
    Would you stay with the specified fork or go for the 2009 specification fork whick is a fox f120 RLC Remote L/Out?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by whakamahi kid
    Thanks, great input.
    Would you stay with the specified fork or go for the 2009 specification fork whick is a fox f120 RLC Remote L/Out?
    I’ve never found a use for a lockout on the front, the remote lockout will just make the bike look too busy with cables everywhere, I think the 15mm through axle on the 09’s offers a genuine improvement in stiffness but if your not racing I don’t think a remote lockout is much use. Someone said the RL comes as standard so you might get in anyway but not if it’s optional.

    The Whyte climbs very well anyway but the new 09 Fox Talas has new internals. Previously the feel of the fork wasn’t as good as the Float or F-series but with the new internals and some simplified parts if feels and rides much better so is a good alternative to the F120.

  6. #6
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    Cool, would the Fox talas 09 be your fork of preference then for this type of set up???

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by whakamahi kid
    Cool, would the Fox talas 09 be your fork of preference then for this type of set up???
    I’m not sure, I didn’t spend long enough on the E120 to really know whether it needed it or not, bikes like Giant’s Trance X do need it because the head angle is a bit steep so you want a higher fork for down hill that can be reduced for uphill.

    It really depends whether you think it would benefit from an adjustable fork, it probably rides great with 120 so you may not need it but I'm a sucker for this kinda stuff so it would be the fork I'd put on their.

  8. #8
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    bike is getting lots of xtr, what do you think, xtr brakes or formula?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by whakamahi kid
    bike is getting lots of xtr, what do you think, xtr brakes or formula?
    What model of Formula brakes? I’d go with Formula, I mean the brake reviews in magazines speak for themselves and they live up to that reputation as the best when riding them.

  10. #10
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    oro bianco http://www.formulabrakeusa.com/?page_id=174
    a bit more bling

  11. #11
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    Yeah get those, much better than XTR and the polished finish looks really nice IMO.

  12. #12
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    will put up a picture when it is finished

  13. #13
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    thinking about a set of these...
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  14. #14
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    You're following a very similar path to my E120 build. My frame only deal had a lot of XTR but mixed in the following:

    Formula The One brakes
    Mavic Crossmax ST wheels
    Maverick speedball (non-remote) seatpost (now Crank Bros joplin)
    Rockshox Revelation Dual Air poploc with Push Factory Tune.
    FSA K-Force light tripe chainset and BB
    Thomson Elite X4 stem
    Easton Monkeylite XC bars
    Lizard skin Moab lock-on grips
    Specialized Phenom SL saddle
    Schwalbe Nobby Nic 2.25 UST

    Out of that lot, the heavy components are:
    ... the brakes
    ... the seatpost
    ... the fork (compared to a Fox F120 RLC)

    This resulted in a build weight of 27.5 lbs for a large frame (worth noting that the medium is only 10g lighter than the large). This is a full built weight with XTR SPD pedals.

    Out of the total build i would not be without the brakes and the fork is fantastic. I've got a few more misgivings about the seatpost. It is fantastic to use, but it does tend to slip on the saddle angle slightly.

    I didn't get on with the original tune on the shock and had mine sorted out by TFTuned. This transformed the bike. I would budget for it from new if the frame you get has the "high" compression tune on the RP23 shock.


  15. #15
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    more food for thought...

  16. #16
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    I should point out that the Mavic Crossmax rear wheel is not compatible with the Whyte Big Gripper dropouts. I had to get some spacers machined up to get the wheel to fit.

    ... and ...



    ... you know you want to.

  17. #17
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    Are you happy with the bike frame? it got slated by MBR recently... I have demo-ed the XT version and loved it for xc /single track / mud/ etc plus riding bomb craters / bowls/ steps & stairs etc which is my sort of local riding but I think it should be alright for a bit of DH

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by whakamahi kid
    Are you happy with the bike frame? it got slated by MBR recently... I have demo-ed the XT version and loved it for xc /single track / mud/ etc plus riding bomb craters / bowls/ steps & stairs etc which is my sort of local riding but I think it should be alright for a bit of DH
    Mbr was unnecessarily harsh to the Mount Vision and Whyte E120 in tests, I can assure you the Stumpy did not deserve to win. Mbuk did a much fairer test of the E120 by a much more experienced tester and WMB gave the Mount Vision the bike of the year award with a huge test group.

    As for those cranks, firstly have you checked to see if they’re available yet? None else seems to have them…also check if they’re compatible with any other BB’s, the test you took that pic from had no problems and that maybe because it’s a new design but Race Face BB’s have a notoriously short life span and poor sealing. They will probably work great but I’d rather have the option of another BB.

  19. #19
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    Have seen them in the flesh, they look pretty trick
    I will find out about the bottom bracket, I think they are xtr compatible

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by whakamahi kid
    Are you happy with the bike frame? it got slated by MBR recently... I have demo-ed the XT version and loved it for xc /single track / mud/ etc plus riding bomb craters / bowls/ steps & stairs etc which is my sort of local riding but I think it should be alright for a bit of DH
    The frame is fine. MBR seems to be a magazine where you have to read between the lines hugely to find out what the hell they are on about. The "dream machines" test slated the geometry claiming the Whyte was too short in the cockpit. It is fair enough that if you buy a bike that doesn't fit you it isn't going to work for you. Normally they slate Specialized for having such a low bottom bracket that you get pedal strikes the whole time. They seemed to dislike the Whyte as being too high with a BB height all of 1/2 an inch higher than Specialized. The Whyte is a short bike. The E5 before it also had a tendency to put your weight very much over the back wheel. You can do some fine tuning with saddle position and stem length. Going with the Maverick seatpost means I have some setback on the post - seems to work well for me but I'm at the opposite end of the scale at 6'2" and riding a large. When you get it right you have a very responsive bike.

    I've ridden the bike on my local patch of the North Downs as well as Afan and the Quantocks. It was fantastic at Afan - did Whites Level twice including the black section as well as the Wall and Penhydd. Spent last weekend on the Quantocks in company with a rider on a S-Works Carbon Stumpy FSR (which won top marks in the MBR test). I had lots of fun teasing him that I only had an 8 out of 10 bike.

    I haven't seen a bad review for anything Specialized in MBR for a while - is it unfair to presume that they must have taken out a big advertising contract?

    The only mitigating factor is that I didn't get on well with the bike with the original RP23 tune. I've gone with Push modification of the shock and it is now fantastic. I'd categorise the original shock as being "wrong". ATB Sales were very good in supplying a new shock through my local bike store to try and solve the problem, but the replacement rode exactly the same as the original. In the end it went off to TFTuned and came back transformed.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercarm
    I haven't seen a bad review for anything Specialized in MBR for a while - is it unfair to presume that they must have taken out a big advertising contract?
    I doubt it, Giant always advertises in there, sometimes more than once and double page spreads and Mbr continues to be unfairly biased against Giant bikes.

  22. #22
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    Fair enough.

    What did you think of them spending so much of the dream machines article telling us that 120mm travel is a complete nonsense because 140mm is better? Seemed to me to be a bit dogmatic to tell us that you need a certain amount of travel to do a certain type of riding and not concentrate on the bikes' capabilities with objectivity.

    FWIW, my own experience of the Specialized and E120 also led me to buying the E120. The E120 has a tremendously solid feel about it. The carbon stumpy (and especially the S120 fork) didn't give me that feeling. TBH, the E120 isn't all that light. The frame and shock weighed in at 3010g (6.6lbs). It is certainly a bike that has given me a lot of confidence on the trail.

    Despite this, here is a cut and paste from the owner's manual:
    Designed and tested for the following use:
    The Whyte E-120 has been designed for typical XC use. It has not been designed for extreme
    downhill riding or free riding. The E-120 is in compliance with BS-EN 14766:2005
    Last edited by petercarm; 08-29-2008 at 01:25 PM.

  23. #23
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    I agree, anyone who can spend £4K on a xc bike can spend extra £££'s on a DH bike. I do a lot of fly fishing, if you want to catch small UK trout you need a different rod than you use for NZ trout. Does not matter how expensive the rod, is my 2c

  24. #24
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    Yeah they say 140mm travel is best and yet they did a test in the previous issue to find out what the optimum travel is and came up with 120mm. That test to find the optimum travel was complete rubbish anyway because you simply can’t compare the travel on 3 completely different bikes with different suspension like a Kona faux bar, Spesh Horst link and Giant Maestro, it should have been 3 of the same suspension at least seeing as how they’re testing travel. I’ve never felt travel makes as much difference as how well built a bike is and its geometry.

    Quad link bikes are pretty stiff and yours looks solid, you get quite a bit of rear triangle waggle on Stumpy’s which is a bit annoying.

  25. #25
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    here we go

    Frame E120 small
    Everything including pedals xtr apart from...
    Fox F120 RLC 2009 v.
    Hope headset
    Thompson seat post and stem
    Easton monkeylite bars
    SDG Bel Air RL Ti seat (snow cammo)
    Grips, Bonty Earl Lock Ons
    Brakes Formula Oro Bianco
    Race Face Next Carbon crank, chain rings, crank bolt
    SRAM PC991 Hollow Chain
    Conti Mt King pro 2.2 tyres

  26. #26
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    Excellent.

    The headset is integrated, though. So not quite sure why you're looking at a Hope headset.

  27. #27
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    I was told I needed it

  28. #28
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    If you buy the frame it should come with the FSA headset. Mine did.

    The headset is two different sizes. 1.125" at the top and 1.25" lower. There are several standards flying around for the dimensions of such bearings so I'd be careful of substituting in anything without the nod from Whyte/ATB Sales. The bearings are in direct contact with the frame, so they have to be right.

    The only thing to watch out for is that the FSA comes with a 15mm carbon spacer that fits above the top race. This might be too tall on the smaller frame, depending on how the overall fit is working out.

  29. #29
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    checked the whyte website and you are right it does come with a headset

  30. #30
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    finished bike

    can't wait to get outa nd have a blast
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by whakamahi kid
    can't wait to get outa nd have a blast
    Glad you've got it all together. Looks like you could move the brake levers to the inside of the shifters. They'll be a lot more comfortable there as they are designed for one finger braking.

    Time to get it dirty.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by whakamahi kid
    can't wait to get outa nd have a blast
    Yeah, get her dirty and take some more pics but don’t forget to turn up for work on Monday no matter how tempting it maybe to just ride your bike forever.

    Have you guys seen the red theme 2009 E120 in the October Mbr? I gotta say if I had some money that’s what I’d buy, especially as they’ve changed some of the kit I didn’t like on this years one.

  33. #33
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    you are right, moved those now... thanks
    broke the hollow pin chain the second decent ride I had on it.

  34. #34
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    yeah it looks cool... bit miffed as I would have liked to get it but was told it was not available yet.

  35. #35
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    Guys, not inline with the original forum post but interested to know what pressures/sag your running on the e120's. Have you followed the manual as 14mm sag for the rear & 20mm for the fox f120 forks. Be interested to hear what your running.

    I'd like to get the most out of the travel.
    Thanks

  36. #36
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    I had the rear shock revalved because I couldn;t get much action out of it on the original "high compression damping" tune. Now I set it at 14mm and it is a perfect compromise using all the travel and super plush.

    I had mine on a Push factory modded Revelation rather than the Fox. Until I had the shock done I really struggled to set up the fork. As soon as the shock was working properly the fork settings made sense...

    ... except I've just changed to a 2009 Reba Team with the 20mm Maxle Light.

    The fork sag is difficult to gauge accurately because weight distribution makes such a difference to static sag. I don't think you'll see the recommended static sag out of the fork if your seat post has any layback or you have the saddle way back on its rails. I found it better to gauge what the fork was up to from overall feel and use of travel. If you have the RLC, wind the low speed compression right open and the fork should be set super plush but with too much dive - from there dial in a little low speed compression to tame the dive.

    My top tip though is to think hard about whether the shock valving is working for you.

  37. #37
    paps
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercarm
    I should point out that the Mavic Crossmax rear wheel is not compatible with the Whyte Big Gripper dropouts. I had to get some spacers machined up to get the wheel to fit.
    what? seriously?
    i'm close to get one myself,i have crossmax though,the old xl ones. will those fit you reckon?
    Last edited by paps; 09-26-2008 at 09:36 AM.

  38. #38
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    Measure the diameter of the axle where it would engage in a quick release dropout. The Mavic ST ones were 9.60mm. The Whyte Big Gripper spools are 9.90mm.

    That 0.3mm doesn't sound like a lot until you see what it does to your brake disk alignment in the caliper.

  39. #39
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    thanx for that, i'll do that asap! surprising though for hand made expensive frames like that to have such flaws!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by paps
    thanx for that, i'll do that asap! surprising though for hand made expensive frames like that to have such flaws!
    Whyte should make a different size one for that hub seeing as how those wheels are so popular, are the Big Gripper’s essentially the same as the ones on the PRST-1 a few years back? If they are then it wouldn’t be too much of a problem for Whyte, they wouldn’t even have to touch the frame…

  41. #41
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    It cost me 1 hour of a fabricator's time to make up the required adaptors. Pain in the arse for Whyte to have to deal with if any manufacturer comes up with any other "standard" of their choosing. I presume Whyte's big gripper was based on the external diameter of common threaded rear axles.

    With Marin offering rear Maxle solutions with bolt-in dropouts it is only a matter of time before big gripper is dropped.

  42. #42
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    i mailed whyte abt it. have you done so yourself? not working with a very popular wheel is a serious issue, they should at the very least provide you with a solution and pay for everything i think!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by paps
    i mailed whyte abt it. have you done so yourself? not working with a very popular wheel is a serious issue, they should at the very least provide you with a solution and pay for everything i think!
    Non compatibility with bike pats is just part of life, imagine buying a Pivot (or some other bike) frame and realising your stuck with a Shimano BB for life or direct mount front mechs which only Shimano makes…It really isn’t a problem if it’s still the same Big Gripper as I had a few years back.

  44. #44
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    From the Whyte Bikes site:

    What’s more, any standard hub can be converted to fit our system. So, if you have your favourite set of super-light wheels, you can add the converter and enjoy all of the added stiffness that the Big Gripper offers.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercarm
    From the Whyte Bikes site:

    exactly, i just want the company to document any incompatibilities and not me having to search to find out these things. informed consent is all i'm asking for. if something doesn't work with a major other part imo needs to be documented by the company that sells framesets. full bikes, no problem, but frames are built by our new and old parts and mavic are one of the biggest wheel manufacturers. so if indeed it wasn't an isolated mistake and is designed like this, then it needs to be stated somewhere (if not fixed)

  46. #46
    trail demon
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    petercarm - thanks for the info. To be honest I had hoped to dial the rear shock in without having to spend out on further tuning costs. I still haven't got it reacting just how I would like, so it continues......I'd like it as a general trail bike.

    Overall it's a nice ride just need the rear to feel a little more supple.

  47. #47
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    Whyte Noise

    Hi chaps,

    thinking abt getting one of these 120's couple of q's tho;
    1) Do you find the e-120 noisy, as the dirt mag review slated them for being very noisy and a friend of a friend said the same too.
    2) one of the guys posted that he built up one with fairly light parts and it was 27.5lbs !!! i knw it depends on components from oem but what weight are most of you getting as they are touted at 24lbs
    thx
    nick
    Solo C 32@140
    Nomad 3 C, Pike.
    Cube Stereo Hybrid 140 (recovery rides & grin inducing blasts/uplifts)

  48. #48
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    Not particularly noisy. Not in a bad way. It isn't a clatter. Sounds damped and solid.

    Weight in the brochure will be without pedals. My build was 27lbs with pedals, my tyre choice and brake choice being the main explanation compared to brochure weight. Nothing unusual about that.

  49. #49
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    When the chain gets dirty they get quite horrendously noisy imo. As soon as the chain cleans up a bit its ok.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by cozmobozo
    When the chain gets dirty they get quite horrendously noisy imo. As soon as the chain cleans up a bit its ok.

    OK that is a fair comment. I soon found out that some chain lubes make it sound dreadful.

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