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Prophet/Tomac/Iron Horse/Bullit/Heckler/Stumpjumper/Epic/Help!!!

1K views 14 replies 9 participants last post by  ReverendBillyBob 
#1 · (Edited)
Prophet/Tomac/Bullit/Heckler/Stumpjumper/VT1/Help!!!

Hey guys (and gals?) Help me out! I'm looking to buy a bike now that there's a foot of snow on the ground and everything is on sale. In the flats now (Chicago) I'm planning to move to the Northern Rockies in a year. My weight is 200 - 220 with big ole pedal stompin legs and a flat cadence of 100+ my bike has to be sturdy.

So the bikes I'm looking at are:

03 Tomac Revolver Pro $1500 typically $3,000 - XT/XTR, Marzocchi Bomber Black/ Fox Float RL loaded!!!
05 Cannondale Prophet 600 or 800 $1600 - $2000 - beautiful but no SPV, LX/XT, Manitou Radium R Air/Lefty (v v cool)
04 Iron Horse Hollowpoint RL Expert $1500 - loaded XT/XT, Manitou Skareb Elite Air/SPV, 5th element air, etc
?? Santa Cruz Bullit $2,000 - Deore/XT, Manitou Firefly/5th Element Coil
?? Santa Cruz Heckler $2,000 - Deore/XT, Manitou Black Sport/5th Element Coil
04 Stumpjumper FSR Elite Disc $1,300 ($1,750) - LX/XT Manitou Black Elite/Fox Float R Pro Pedal
04 Epic $1,450 ($1950) LX/XT Fox Float RL/Brain IQ
04 Epic Pro $2,280 ($3k) XT/XTR Rock Shox SID Team/Brain

Given the snow I've not had a chance to ride them but I will of course (Iron Horse is mail order). I know the Epic and Iron Horse are SPV and the C'Dales aren't. What of the others?

Also I'm concerned the Epics won't be sturdy enough, have enough travel and don't have discs (I should take these off my list huh?).

Any input from you more experienced bikers is greatly appreciated!

The Reverend Billy Bob
 
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#2 ·
Just some random notes:

The Skareb on the IH will probably be too flexy for your weight. Look for a Black or beefier fork.

You lumped the Epic and Hollowpoint together as "SPV" bikes, but they're about as opposite as you can get.

Test ride an Epic to get a feel for if that's how "efficient" (term used loosely) you want to be. That shock is literally locked out until a bump opens it.

The HP, on the other hand, comes with an SPV shock, but doesn't really utilize it (platform chamber is pressurized to the minimum setting). In fact, the HP's dw-link suspension is probably the least platform-reliant, most "naturally stable" suspension on your list.

At your weight, instead of the '04 Hollowpoint, look for the new MkIII Hollowpoints which should begin to be available towards the end of this week.

I'd really make a point of demoing everything you can to really develop a feel for the differences each of the bikes on your list has to offer. You're covering a pretty broad range and need to narrow it down to make effective comparisons.
 
#3 ·
FWIW, I just went through a similar dilema of what to get and got it narrowed down to FSR vs HP. I finally decided on a leftover '04 HP Sport and could not possibly be happier with my choice. Smooth isn't even the word for it, and the trails around here are just about as technical/rocky/rooty as I've seen anywhere.
 
#4 ·
Am I dreamin???

Excellent input guys, thanks.

Speedub.Nate said:
:You lumped the Epic and Hollowpoint together as "SPV" bikes
LOL That was the only acronym that I typed I was uncertain of. I rode the Epic when it first came out and became infatuated with the auto-lockout suspension. Coming from a HT XC perspective it was a revelation. If I was staying in the mid-west I'd get the Epic but I'd probably grow to hate the limited travel in the Montana Rockies. I rode my hardtail on a trail the locals there called moderate and had to turn around a wee bit in and half walk the damn thing out. :eek:

So what I'm really looking for I guess is five or so sturdy inches that climb and DH nice and lock up *automatically* on the flats or streets on my way to work. Am I dreamin???

New list...

03 Tomac Revolver Pro $1500 typically $3,000 - XT/XTR, Marzocchi Bomber Black/ Fox Float RL loaded!!!
05 Cannondale Prophet 600 or 800 $1600 - $2000 - beautiful but no SPV, LX/XT, Manitou Radium R Air/Lefty (v v cool)
?? Santa Cruz Bullit $2,000 - Deore/XT, Manitou Firefly/5th Element Coil
?? Santa Cruz Heckler $2,000 - Deore/XT, Manitou Black Sport/5th Element Coil
04 Stumpjumper FSR Elite Disc $1,300 ($1,750) - LX/XT Manitou Black Elite/Fox Float R Pro Pedal
 
#6 ·
At your weight and price range I would go with the Heckler. Its a great all mountain frame that can take some abuse. Its a little heavier than some bikes, but on rougher trails the weight can be an advantage at times. Plus it can be built around 30lbs or less fairly easy. My only concern with the Heckler you list is the Black Sport Fork. Its not bad, but I would have preffered to at lease see the Elite or Platinum fork. If weights an issue, you can always swap the 5th coil for an air shock.

The Bullit is also a great bike, but might be a little overkill if you lean more towards cross country.

The stumpy is not a bad XC full suspension bike. Fairly active with good balance. The only down side is you might want more travel if you are riding fairly rough trails. You might look for a close out on a 2004 Enduro or a deal on a 2005 Enduro 130. Kind of a beefy Stumpy with more travel. The '04's have the itch switch shock which lets adjust the travel between 4 and 5 inches.
 
#8 ·
ReverendBillyBob said:
Am I dreaming?
Like Krabill says, put the Hollowpoint MkIII on your list. An in the meantime, do whatever you can to demo any dw-link bike you can get your paws on, even the new Sunday and 7point7 frames.

The revelation (and I'm not using that term lightly) of the dw-link is that a 5" travel bike can be active, compliant, yet efficient, and without the "band aid" of SPV. For instance, I run a non-SPV AD-12 shock on my Hollowpoint.

The bigger deal (to me, anyway) is that the bike has practically zero pedal feedback when it cycles. So as I'm cranking up a climb, and I to hit something that compresses the suspension, my legs (my spin) is oblivious to it -- I don't have to "pull myself out of" or fight any suspension action. It's a buttery smooth pedaler, and that plays right into whatever mind game which convinces you whether a bike is efficient or not.

But again, just because I'm sold on the dw-link doesn't make it right for everyone. Like I said, ride everything you can, make sure the frame fits you and the suspension works for what you want to do with it. The more time you put into it up front, the less chance you'll have of developing buyers remorse, considering that perhaps you bought the wrong bike.
 
#11 ·
Bullit vs Heckler as a trail bike....

I've done'm both and IMO the Bullit's a better choice. For a relatively small weight increase you get a much nicer feel from the rear suspension. I simply could not get the Heckler's 5" to feel plush. The Heckler's TT is way too short for a trail bike. A Bullit is probably the most versatile bike you can own. It can do it all from DH to trail riding. And, it can do them well.

Mike
 
#12 ·
Been there done that also.

Miker J said:
I've done'm both and IMO the Bullit's a better choice. For a relatively small weight increase you get a much nicer feel from the rear suspension. I simply could not get the Heckler's 5" to feel plush. The Heckler's TT is way too short for a trail bike. A Bullit is probably the most versatile bike you can own. It can do it all from DH to trail riding. And, it can do them well.

Mike
We were just debating the Bullit vs Bighit on the dh forum. I agree the Bullit is super versatile. My Heckler was a great bike also. I had a large and I am 5'10" and it fit just right for me. The thing that I liked about the Heckler was that it climbed great and I could drop a 6 footer without thinking twice. Not too many all mountain bikes that can do that without breaking right away.

I like the Bullit but prefer the Heckler as an all mountain bike hands down. The Heckler has slightly steeper geometry which makes for better handling uphill, is lighter and I prefer it for climbing over the Bullit. My opinion. Afterall, the Bullit is a freerider first and trail bike second. Both are great bikes though, that can do everything.

Not sure what you mean about plush either. I never bottomed the 5th on mine and I weigh over 200lbs. The new Fox DHX is available for the Heckler now and offers .6" extra travel making it 5.6". The newer 5th longer stroke for the Heckler gives it 5.6" of travel also. I am not a fan of the 5th coilover because it feels harsh. I also did not like the low bb of the Heckler which causes the occasional pedal smack. With a new shock rear shock, I may get another Heckler.
 
#13 ·
IronHorse or Yeti 575.

My first FS was IH Hollowpoint Team 03.Great suspension,but laterally soft like batter.It suddenly broke two weeks ago(seat tube under dw link) after jast year of XC use.If they had fixed it in 04 05,then Iron Horse is your choice.My decision was to decline buying another IH for a while.

P.S.:I'm happy Yeti 575 owner now.It is light,stiff,simple,reliable(i hope :) ,at least it looks like it have to be),pedals great and it is beautiful :) :) :) Worth mentioning that my weight is 200+lbs and so on...By the way it's -7 Celsius out my window now.And i ride every morning and weekend i can.It is pure joy!Good luck with your solution!
 
#14 ·
well...

ronny said:
We were just debating the Bullit vs Bighit on the dh forum. I agree the Bullit is super versatile. My Heckler was a great bike also. I had a large and I am 5'10" and it fit just right for me. The thing that I liked about the Heckler was that it climbed great and I could drop a 6 footer without thinking twice. Not too many all mountain bikes that can do that without breaking right away.

I like the Bullit but prefer the Heckler as an all mountain bike hands down. The Heckler has slightly steeper geometry which makes for better handling uphill, is lighter and I prefer it for climbing over the Bullit. My opinion. Afterall, the Bullit is a freerider first and trail bike second. Both are great bikes though, that can do everything.

Not sure what you mean about plush either. I never bottomed the 5th on mine and I weigh over 200lbs. The new Fox DHX is available for the Heckler now and offers .6" extra travel making it 5.6". The newer 5th longer stroke for the Heckler gives it 5.6" of travel also. I am not a fan of the 5th coilover because it feels harsh. I also did not like the low bb of the Heckler which causes the occasional pedal smack. With a new shock rear shock, I may get another Heckler.
[[[[[[[[[[[[[I checked out that thread. Of course no pro is going to race a Bullit, but for everything other than pure DH racing it's a super bike. That bike does so much, so well, it's crazy. I have 2 builds for my Bullit. I've humbled riders on xc bikes on trail rides with the trail version (little Bullit), and hung with the big dogs doing DH in it's big mode (and I'm no downhiller). Is there really another bike that can do what a Bullit does?]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

The Heckler is a great bike that's super tough for it's size and with the 5th I could tune it to handle some relatively big hits. However, I just couldn't get that bike to feel smooth on the smaller, faster hits. It was like there wasn't enough room in that 5" to keep the initial travel supple while having it ramp up enough at the end. Who knows, maybe my spring was too heavy, but I did have the proper sag. The Bullit's travel is super soft at the start but can be made to ramp up nicely with a 5th.

Funny you mentioned the BB height on the Heckler being too low. If there was one thing I could change about the Bullit it would be to lower the BB height.

Regarding the HA of the 2 bikes. The Bullit's HA is stated as slacker than the Heckler's because it's intended to use a longer travel fork than the Heckler. I'm sure the Bullit is slacker with a Super T on it than a Heckler is with a Vanilla 125. But, I've had an 03 Z1 TA on both bikes and I really believe the Bullit felt steeper than the Heckler with that same fork on. Purely anecdotal of course.

I still think one can make an argument for each as to which makes a better trail bike. You know, there is a lot of variation in what one considers "trail riding". But I still say go with a Bullit over a Heckler (especially at the posters size) because you can do so damn much with a Bullit. Either way, both are great bikes.

Mike
 
#15 ·
Jwiffle said:
you might also want to consider a Giant VT or Reign, both are very nice bikes.
Dang!!! On my way home I saw a new '03 VT1 marked down from $3k to $1,600. Dig the specs:

Mavic Crossmax UST XL Disc hubs, rims and spokes
Cane Creek Headset
Raceface cranks & BB
Hayes Hydraulic Disc, 6"
Manitou Swinger Air SPV shock
RockShock Psylo Race forks
XT derailleurs F&R​
I love shopping for leftovers in the snow!

Thanks for all the help guys. I've not bought a mt bike since my HT in 99 so all this is new to me.

BillyBob
 
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