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  1. #1
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    Need hardtail recommendations XC/DJ

    After doing some research I figured out that I want an XC frame with those features:
    1. Really shot chainstays
    2. Low top tube
    3. Head angle of 69 or less
    4. Derailleur hanger
    Most DJ frames are on the heavy side, have short seat tubes and usually horizontal drop outs.
    My buddy keeps saying get a Chameleon, but 16.5" chainstays seem pretty long.

    Ideally an XC bike that can manual easily and fun to jump with, in the street and on the trail. Most XC frames feel little bit like road bikes and have very high top tubes.

    I looked into a few geared DJ/XC hybrids and they all seem to have chainstays about 16.5"-17". For example Kona Shred and Stuff have 16.7"

    The only thing that comes up is a used Specialized P2 years 2006-2010. That seems to be spot on.
    Like this: Specialized P.2

    What else is out there?

  2. #2
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    you could take a look at the Chromag stylus... i'm looking at getting one myself. They have a 16.5" chainstay, but I think they fit your other criterea, plus I've heard a lot of good stuff about them

  3. #3
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    I was looking for the same thing a while back, on my list was a 3 ways tie
    Scott Voltage ltd, shortest stay very versatile, 5lb frame.
    Santa cruz Jackal, short stay, replaceable hanger, 5lb frame.
    Giant STP, the new one is pretty good, I've got the 2010 but it's all good I'm running 1x9.

  4. #4
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    Thanks, thats very helpful.

  5. #5
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    Ok, I've got an even better recommendation the Evil Sovereign. You can shorten the chainstay to 15.7" I think because it has the adjustable chainstay. As for your other criterea, it has a 68 degree headtube, less with shocks with more travel and an optional hanger. Also, it looks like it has a pretty low top tube. I just got a sovereign frame for $500 off ebay, so it's not too pricey. It's a steel frame, so a little heavier than your typical xc bike, but worth it if you want to do a little of everything on it. I'm expecting mine in the mail tomorrow, so we'll see how it goes.

  6. #6
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    Giant STP adj stay 15.4-15.8
    Santa Cruz 15.3
    Scott Voltage ltd 15.15 shortest available I believe.

    I had the same goal of finding something with short stay for manual/wheelie practice. I'm not exactly a jumper type.

  7. #7
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    P2 vs STP vs Chameleon

    I have a 2009 Giant STP 1 (regular), just sold a 2009 Specialized P2 (long), and bought my 14 year old son a 2004 Santa Cruz Chameleon (medium) for Christmas.

    Specialized P2 - Heavy bike - even for a dirt jump bike. Mine was all stock, so would have been lighter with a higher end wheelset. I never tried it on trails, but the thought of sitting and pedaling that monster for any extended period of time is unpleasant. I bought it to ride on our backyard pump track, but sold it because it just didn't work for me.

    Giant STP 1 - I figured if the staff at MTBR had vetted all the options and concluded the STP was the best for their pump track, then I should give it a try. Wow, what a difference. Compared to the P2 it was like going from a 1972 Mustang Mach 1 to a 2011 Porsche Carrera. The STP feels relatively light (even though it weighs 35 lbs), it is very responsive, and confidence inspiring. I've had it on trails and it works great. I can raise the seat and pedal, or slam it and attack. Way more fun (for me). However, I am changing out the stock drive train components and brakes because they stink.

    Santa Cruz Chameleon - I think this is the closest to a do-it-all bike that exists today. My son's has a Manitou Minute fork and all XTR components, so it's pretty light at 28 lbs. Very flickable. My son only weighs about 130 lbs, but he has no problem manualing. The top tube is probably too high to do BMX type dirt jump stuff, but the bike jumps just fine. Paid less than $500 on eBay for the complete bike (doesn't have disc brakes, but is disc brake compatible).

    Hope this helps in some small way.
    2011 Canfield Yelli Screamy
    2012 Canfield DJ

    www.pumptrackaddict.com

  8. #8
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    Mtlaham, that's an awesome review. +rep for you, that's a great effort.

  9. #9
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    mtlatham thanks for the review. So the STP is 35 pounds and the P2 is even more? Is the P2 chromo?
    I was thinking the typical frame is about 6 pounds.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrozCountry View Post
    mtlatham thanks for the review. So the STP is 35 pounds and the P2 is even more? Is the P2 chromo?
    I was thinking the typical frame is about 6 pounds.
    I think the typical DJ frame is heavier than that as the lightest DJ frame is 5lbs. Big brands would be around 5.5-6.5 lbs then the second tier would be 7+lbs DJ bike needs to withstand repeated abuse so extra metal is needed to get the job done.

    Light weight frame like Scott Voltage achieve strength and lightness thru tube shaping and creative frame building.

  11. #11
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    I should have noted on my review that my P2 was the Cr-Mo version. My experience might have been somewhat different with the aluminum version. However, the geometry is the same no matter the frame material and though the wheelbase for the P2 and STP are basically the same - the P2 felt like much longer.

    Mimi is right on with the frame weights. I have a small KHS SJ100 that weighs 8.8 lbs. I'm looking for a lighter aluminum frame to build up a bike for my daughter. A small Kona Cowan/Shred goes 4.9 lbs. A Haro Thread 8 about 5.5 lbs.

    For comparison, a medium Chameleon is only 4.7 lbs.

    Thanks for the rep Mimi!
    Last edited by mtlatham; 12-29-2011 at 05:40 PM.
    2011 Canfield Yelli Screamy
    2012 Canfield DJ

    www.pumptrackaddict.com

  12. #12
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    Thanks again. Do you guys have a ballpark for the weight of P2 aluminum and chromo frames, as well as the STP? I will probably pick one of those three as they seem to be the most common around here.

    Speaking of, do you guys have experience with the Haro Thread 8? Any feedback?

  13. #13
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    According to this thread on pinkbike the STP weighs 4.6-4.7 lbs: Giant STP frame info? - Pinkbike.com Forum

    Sounds a little light to me, but those guys have supposedly stripped and weighed the frames.

    I just bought a Haro Thread 8 (size: short). Hope to have it here and built up within the next two weeks.

    Bikeradar has a review of the P2 Cr-Mo from a Mountain Bike UK comparison with the Scott Voltage, Trek Ticket and Marin San Quentin. The context of the group test was to find a bike that would be a good dirt jumper as well as good for riding to the track and back. Evidently, the Marin came out on top. You have to read each bike review individually, but here is the review for the P2: Specialized P.2 Cr-Mo Review - BikeRadar.
    Last edited by mtlatham; 12-30-2011 at 09:44 PM.
    2011 Canfield Yelli Screamy
    2012 Canfield DJ

    www.pumptrackaddict.com

  14. #14
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    I'd doubt that. I've never weighted mine but I know it's not 4.7lbs. At best mine would be 5.75lbs. My lbs told me the new STP weight about 5lbs.

    If you want light weight and versatile I'd go with SC Jackal, or Scott Voltage TMO, and of course STP.


  15. #15
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    I agree about the weight of the STP.
    I love mine for what I do with it, but if I did a little more of the "sit and pedal" thing I'd opt for the Chameleon instead (knowing what I know now).
    2011 Canfield Yelli Screamy
    2012 Canfield DJ

    www.pumptrackaddict.com

  16. #16
    The cat's name is jake
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrozCountry View Post
    After doing some research I figured out that I want an XC frame with those features:
    1. Really shot chainstays
    2. Low top tube
    3. Head angle of 69 or less
    4. Derailleur hanger
    Most DJ frames are on the heavy side, have short seat tubes and usually horizontal drop outs.
    My buddy keeps saying get a Chameleon, but 16.5" chainstays seem pretty long.

    Ideally an XC bike that can manual easily and fun to jump with, in the street and on the trail. Most XC frames feel little bit like road bikes and have very high top tubes.

    I looked into a few geared DJ/XC hybrids and they all seem to have chainstays about 16.5"-17". For example Kona Shred and Stuff have 16.7"

    The only thing that comes up is a used Specialized P2 years 2006-2010. That seems to be spot on.
    Like this: Specialized P.2

    What else is out there?
    Are you open to custom made frames?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BungedUP View Post
    Are you open to custom made frames?
    Music to my ears
    Last edited by mimi1885; 12-31-2011 at 11:15 PM.

  18. #18
    The cat's name is jake
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by mimi1885 View Post
    Music to my ear
    What happened to the other one? (sorry if you can't hear out of one, and I'm being insensitive)

  19. #19
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    Sorry iPhone typing

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