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  1. #1
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    How about Blur vs. Mount Vision?

    Thanks for the feedback to my earlier post regarding the Mount Vision vs. Superlight. What do you think about the Blur with the r-kit (Shimano XT/LX, v-brakes and Fox / Fifth Element shocks with no lockout) vs. Mount Vision (Shimano XT shifters and derailleurs, Hayes HFX disc brakes and Fox Float front and rear suspension with lockouts)? I'll be using it on both street and dirt. The Mount Vision is better equipped but does the Blur's VPP suspension make it a better choice?

  2. #2
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    Blur rides better

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetstream
    Thanks for the feedback to my earlier post regarding the Mount Vision vs. Superlight. What do you think about the Blur with the r-kit (Shimano XT/LX, v-brakes and Fox / Fifth Element shocks with no lockout) vs. Mount Vision (Shimano XT shifters and derailleurs, Hayes HFX disc brakes and Fox Float front and rear suspension with lockouts)? I'll be using it on both street and dirt. The Mount Vision is better equipped but does the Blur's VPP suspension make it a better choice?
    I'm a big fan of the Marin Terra Quad longer travel design ( 4 - 6 inches adjustable, such as the Wolf Ridge) it's awsome, but I wasn't very impressed with my demo on the XC Quad designed Mount Vision for ride quality compared to my Tracer's ride with the same shock. For racing the Mount Vision would probably be better as a lighter bike compared to the Blur. But the Blur has more travel and feels much less spikey riding over bumps. Both are low bob pedalers, the Blur just cruises better in the rough, and handles great. The Marin pivot bearings are probably more reliable due to design differences and have a 10 year pivot life warrantee.

    JMO

    - ray
    Last edited by derby; 10-07-2004 at 08:23 AM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    I'm a big fan of the Marin Terra Quad longer travel design ( 4 - 6 inches adjustable, such as the Wolf Ridge) it's awsome, but I wasn't very impressed with my demo on the XC Quad designed Mount Vision for ride quality compared to my Tracer's ride with the same shock. For racing the Mount Vision would probably be better as a lighter bike compared to the Blur. But the Blur has more travel and feels much less spikey riding over bumps. Both are low bob pedalers, the Blur just cruises better in the rough, and handles great. The Marin pivot bearings are probably more reliable due to design differences and have a 10 year pivot life warrantee.

    JMO

    - ray
    Sifting through this, it seems you find the Marin a great xc race/fast bike, am I correct? I do not need more than 4" ever (wimpy xc guy who keeps his ego in check) even on my "gnarly epic" rides, and it seems the Marin design is what I'm looking for in terms of weight and price and performance (now if that darn water bottle mount was elsewhere).

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by danK
    Sifting through this, it seems you find the Marin a great xc race/fast bike, am I correct? I do not need more than 4" ever (wimpy xc guy who keeps his ego in check) even on my "gnarly epic" rides, and it seems the Marin design is what I'm looking for in terms of weight and price and performance (now if that darn water bottle mount was elsewhere).
    Yes, The XC Quad such as the Mount Vision feels much like a RacerX just not as buttery on rough trail. It is supposed to have 4 inches travel (a little more than the RX but it feels like less travel). The Mount Vision shock rate is more rising rate deeper in travel than the more linear overall suspension of the RacerX or my Tracer, and that's probably why it feels less plush and more spikey over bumps compared to what I'm used to. And it bobs less than the Tracer so it is probably better accelerating which is more efficent for racing. It should be a great race bike, it is a light and flex free frame with quick handling. Try to get a test ride on one.

    - ray

  5. #5
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    New question here. Quad's Rebound Rate

    Derby,
    Did you have a chance to play with the rebound rate on the rear shock? I found I had to run it much slower since the Mount Visions Quad-Links are 12 times faster than a typical 4-bar link. I found the bike to ride rather harshly over the smaller rough stuff untill I adjusted the rebound way down. I think it 8 clicks from the slwest position (out of 26).
    I'm normally a 'middle of the road' person when it comes to rebound & compression settings but not on the Quad bikes.
    Hope this helps.

    Lance

  6. #6
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    I need another test ride

    Quote Originally Posted by Lance
    Derby,
    Did you have a chance to play with the rebound rate on the rear shock? I found I had to run it much slower since the Mount Visions Quad-Links are 12 times faster than a typical 4-bar link. I found the bike to ride rather harshly over the smaller rough stuff untill I adjusted the rebound way down. I think it 8 clicks from the slwest position (out of 26).
    I'm normally a 'middle of the road' person when it comes to rebound & compression settings but not on the Quad bikes.
    Hope this helps.

    Lance
    It's been a couple years since my test ride on the XC Quad (Mount Vision). I'm so impressed with the Terra Quad (Wolf Ridge) that I think the Marin tech must not have set up the Mount Vision correctly for me two years ago. I need another test ride.

    I've always found that slower rebound was firmer riding, but too fast was softer in bumps but less stable (bouncy). There's a balance for each rider's position on the bike and preference.

    - ray

  7. #7
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    Don't feel bad, I've owned my MV for several motnhs now and am still tweaking...and I'm not even that particular with settings.

    I would recommend another ride if possible and playing with the rebound. Also I found I was running 5-10 psi too much in the rear shock as well.

    Lance

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    It's been a couple years since my test ride on the XC Quad (Mount Vision). I'm so impressed with the Terra Quad (Wolf Ridge) that I think the Marin tech must not have set up the Mount Vision correctly for me two years ago. I need another test ride.

    I've always found that slower rebound was firmer riding, but too fast was softer in bumps but less stable (bouncy). There's a balance for each rider's position on the bike and preference.

    - ray
    traditional xc shock rebound and compression is whacked; my Swinger 3-way included.

    independent adjustments are needed in a compact and lightweight package.
    my motorcycle friends always rag on my latest/greatest mtb suspension when they realize fiddling with the compression effects the rebound and vice versa.

    dh bikes are more like motorcycles in this aspect, right?

  9. #9
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    Lance, any word from the local shop about the 04 frame?

  10. #10
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    I prefer the Mt. Vision quad design over the TARA. For some reason Whyte decided to build much more anti-squat into the slightly longer travel adjustable version. More than you need in my opinion.

    A bike I would like to try is the Whyte bike, available only in England I think, with its linkage front end.

  11. #11
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    DanK,
    No luck on a frameset only. I did see where Adrenaline Bikes was offering for $599.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by danK
    Lance, any word from the local shop about the 04 frame?
    BTW,
    Marin was sold out and only had one MV Pro complete bike.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance
    DanK,
    No luck on a frameset only. I did see where Adrenaline Bikes was offering for $599.
    Thanks for the lead!

  14. #14
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    Just oredered one yesterday

    Marin still has the frames left and Adrenalin bikes can get them for 599. Just got mine yesterday, seems like about the best deal out there for a good xc bike. At this price it is at least worth a try. The only other thing close in terms of deal would be the Supergo turner burner for 950, although I got my Marin frame, Chris king headset, and new xt front derailleur all shipped for 200 less than the turner frame alone. I am really looking forward to building up and testing out, will let everyone know what I think.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by joelkamp
    Marin still has the frames left and Adrenalin bikes can get them for 599. Just got mine yesterday, seems like about the best deal out there for a good xc bike. At this price it is at least worth a try. The only other thing close in terms of deal would be the Supergo turner burner for 950, although I got my Marin frame, Chris king headset, and new xt front derailleur all shipped for 200 less than the turner frame alone. I am really looking forward to building up and testing out, will let everyone know what I think.
    I called and Adrenaline said they did not have them in stock, but I guess I did not ask if they could order one.

  16. #16
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    That's what I was told at first too, they called Marin and I guess some frames are still left. They said it should be 2-3 days from Marin and then standard ground shipping from there. Basically for the price of a used frame you get a brand new one with warranty (life time on the bearings). The frame comes with the pro pedal shock, curious to how it will work with the frame as the frame in theory is a fairly stable platform already.

    Lance does your MV have the pro pedal fox, also any set-up lessons learned would be appreciated. What type of maintenance do you do on the pivots? I am also a Missouri rider and felt that this would be about the perfect amount of spring for most of the local trials, I hope I am right. Also I have yet to see another Marin out this way so it should be a unique bike on the trials.

    Cheers

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by joelkamp
    That's what I was told at first too, they called Marin and I guess some frames are still left. They said it should be 2-3 days from Marin and then standard ground shipping from there. Basically for the price of a used frame you get a brand new one with warranty (life time on the bearings). The frame comes with the pro pedal shock, curious to how it will work with the frame as the frame in theory is a fairly stable platform already.

    Lance does your MV have the pro pedal fox, also any set-up lessons learned would be appreciated. What type of maintenance do you do on the pivots? I am also a Missouri rider and felt that this would be about the perfect amount of spring for most of the local trials, I hope I am right. Also I have yet to see another Marin out this way so it should be a unique bike on the trials.

    Cheers
    I did not know the 04 had pro pedal, and thought the 05 was coming out with the RP3. Your $599 frame is an 04, right? I believe Lance has a non pro pedal Fox Float RL and I believe he rides an 04 Mount Vision and is ordering an 04 Mount Vision Pro; forgive me for speaking for him, and if I am incorrect. I believe Lance and many others feel pro pedal is not necessary on this frame.

    Here is what he wrote in another Marin related post: I'm not big on stable platform shocks for the very reason you mentioned...Harsh small bump compliance. The Quad-Link will not bob while climbing even when hammering the pedals so I feel it's a waste. (end quote)


    Again, the only hangup I have with the frame is the ridiculous water bottle mount because I do not like hydration packs (Lance suggested a seatpost mounted carrier). You can be sure I'm calling Marin tomorrow! Oh, I just found the Marin frame $599 deal on Adrenaline bikes. I could not find it earlier. I see they are charging a ridiculous $25 to ship!
    Last edited by danK; 10-11-2004 at 09:28 PM. Reason: more info

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    It is an 04 and I don't believe that it is the RP3 that it comes with, would be nice though if it was. I think they may have added the pro pedal to the late 04 model. Not really sure, please let me know what Marin says about the issue. I figure for the for the price I can always trade out the shock later or consider the option to get the shock "Pushed" which so many have talked about. Besides for having the ability to adjust the Pro Pedal on the 05 what are the major differences betweeb the 04 pro pedal and 05 RP3 platform?

    Note that the 04 is has a slightly adjusted geometry (over 03) that allows it to run better with 100mm forks which shold make it a descent trail bike.

    As for the water bottle thing, I have never gotten use to riding with one so this was not a concern for me. I use a small camel pack for races and find it to work best for me.
    Last edited by joelkamp; 10-12-2004 at 11:25 AM.

  19. #19
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    Guys,
    Sorry I've been offline so long...

    My MV has a ProPedal rear shock. It is non-adjustable. I've read where it is custom valved for Marin whatever that means. Also, it is NON high-volume. I've spoke with Marin about upgrading the rear shock to the high-volume sleeve, which I did to a Superlight. Marin advises against it, but I can't remember the exact reason why.

    Hey Fellow Missouri rider, where are you located? I'm in St. Joseph (north of KC about 45 miles). It is a cool feeling knowing you've got a bike that unique. I do a group ride at least once a week and there's 6-10 guys riding brand new Stumpjumpers or Epics, mostly the same color even. Looks like some underground movement.

  20. #20
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    New question here. Joelkamp

    Quote Originally Posted by joelkamp
    Marin still has the frames left and Adrenalin bikes can get them for 599. Just got mine yesterday, seems like about the best deal out there for a good xc bike. At this price it is at least worth a try. The only other thing close in terms of deal would be the Supergo turner burner for 950, although I got my Marin frame, Chris king headset, and new xt front derailleur all shipped for 200 less than the turner frame alone. I am really looking forward to building up and testing out, will let everyone know what I think.
    Which exact frame did you get? Does it include a rear shock remote lockout?

  21. #21
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    Interested to know if you will get http://www.adrenalinebikes.com/Image...00xc-frame.jpg from the Adrenaline site or http://www.marinbikes.com/html/spec_vision.html from Marin's 04 site.

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    F100-xc

    Quote Originally Posted by danK
    Interested to know if you will get http://www.adrenalinebikes.com/Image...00xc-frame.jpg from the Adrenaline site or http://www.marinbikes.com/html/spec_vision.html from Marin's 04 site.
    The pic is of a F100-XC frameset off Marin's UK site, www.marin.co.uk. Interesting to know if this is what will actually be shipped.

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    I assume the pic on the adreniline site is just an example (that is how most of their pics are). It should be the 2004 mv pro frame set with the fox pro pedal rear shock with lock out. I am not sure if it has the remote lock out, I did not ask and am not sure I really care either way. When I asked yesterday they said it was the MV pro frame, however the website just says MV. Again not sure I really care because the only difference between the MV pro and MV is a red vs. blue marking on the frame (I would perfer the red marks due to the colors of some of my componets, but this is a picky detail) and addition of the word pro on the lable.

    Lance I am on the other side of the state in St. Louis. Out here we have a lot of trek fuels, Giant NRS, and spcialized stuff. I have yet to see another Marin.

    The first mt. bike I rode was a signle piviot marin from like 5-6 years back which I really liked, looking foward to getting back on a Marin.

    Lance what are some good rides out in western Missouri and agian any setup lessons learnd on the bike would be helpful

  24. #24
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    Crap, just called Marin and they are out of the MV frames.

  25. #25
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    DanK

    Maybe try adreniline again, maybe the bought all the remaining frames. Other wise I hope they got my order in on time, like I said I dont get mine probably for like 10 days.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by joelkamp
    I assume the pic on the adreniline site is just an example (that is how most of their pics are). It should be the 2004 mv pro frame set with the fox pro pedal rear shock with lock out. I am not sure if it has the remote lock out, I did not ask and am not sure I really care either way. When I asked yesterday they said it was the MV pro frame, however the website just says MV. Again not sure I really care because the only difference between the MV pro and MV is a red vs. blue marking on the frame (I would perfer the red marks due to the colors of some of my componets, but this is a picky detail) and addition of the word pro on the lable.

    Lance I am on the other side of the state in St. Louis. Out here we have a lot of trek fuels, Giant NRS, and spcialized stuff. I have yet to see another Marin.

    The first mt. bike I rode was a signle piviot marin from like 5-6 years back which I really liked, looking foward to getting back on a Marin.

    Lance what are some good rides out in western Missouri and agian any setup lessons learnd on the bike would be helpful

    Trails to ride in Western Missouri include Landal Park (Blue Springs), Clinton Lake (Lawrence, KS), Perry Lake (Perry, KS), Crowder State Park (Trenton, MO). All are very rocky and technical.

    I've ridden the Berryman several times and Council Bluffs Lake once. Enjoyed both alot and look forward to getting back down there in the spring.

    Regarding set-up on the Quad-Link...play with the rear shock's rebound setting.
    Try the air pressure at your body weight minus 20 lbs. That should get you close to the 12mm of sag that Marin recommends.

    I've owned several of the single-pivot Marin's and yes they were a very GOOD bike but the new Quad-Link is a GREAT bike!

    Got my Mount Vision Pro on the way. Got the last one Marin had in a 17.5".

    DanK, Anyone:
    Did you want me to check the availablity/price of a Mount Vision complete?

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    Quote Originally Posted by danK
    I did not know the 04 had pro pedal, and thought the 05 was coming out with the RP3. Your $599 frame is an 04, right? I believe Lance has a non pro pedal Fox Float RL and I believe he rides an 04 Mount Vision and is ordering an 04 Mount Vision Pro; forgive me for speaking for him, and if I am incorrect. I believe Lance and many others feel pro pedal is not necessary on this frame.

    Here is what he wrote in another Marin related post: I'm not big on stable platform shocks for the very reason you mentioned...Harsh small bump compliance. The Quad-Link will not bob while climbing even when hammering the pedals so I feel it's a waste. (end quote)


    Again, the only hangup I have with the frame is the ridiculous water bottle mount because I do not like hydration packs (Lance suggested a seatpost mounted carrier). You can be sure I'm calling Marin tomorrow! Oh, I just found the Marin frame $599 deal on Adrenaline bikes. I could not find it earlier. I see they are charging a ridiculous $25 to ship!
    It is good to see other Mt Vision riders who are obviously pleased with their rides.

    I got an MV this June and have about 300 miles on it. Lots of roots and rocks, no big drop-offs.

    A suggestion for those of you who do not like hydration packs. Look for a water bottle brand called Nalgene. I got some years ago from Performance, but have seen them in a local BassPro store in the camping section - you can also look up BassPro online. The bottle has a flip-cap over the spout, which keeps all the dirt, mud and horse crap from ending up on your lips. I use the downtube bottle mount all the time. I have yet to do a long ride (where the car is not accessible between laps), but when I do, I will place the second or third bottle in my fanny pack (the kind hikers often wear). I haven't used a hydration pack in almost ten years, and am happy with this setup.

    As far as ProPedal being necessary, I would say it is not. I have used the Float RL, a Vanilla coilover, and a Risse Jupiter 5 coilover on my MV. The coilovers bob a tiny bit, but it does not detract from the ride. I think this designed-in bob is what give the bike such awesome traction. I have never had such good traction over wet roots and rocks before. In addition, I thought the ProPedal shock did feel a little harsh over small bumps. I weigh 165, and tried pressures from 90-160 psi. It felt better with the lower psi (90-110). The shock ramped up so quick, I could never get full travel from it with higher pressures. That, plus the rising rate suspension, did keep you from feeling like you had 4 inches of travel. I like the Risse shock and have it on for keeps. It has 1.75" shaft travel, which gives the rear wheel 4.25" of honest-to-God useable travel. (I put the shock on without the spring and pushed the rear wheel through its range of motion to measure the travel.)

    The motion of the rear wheel is extremely smooth with the shock removed. This is probably why some folks are adding more rebound damping. I did find that the bushings/reducers/spacers that Fox puts in the rear shock are much too tight. When I needed to get them out, they were so tight that I thought I was doing something wrong trying to get them out and took it to a LBS. They also were suprised at the tight fit. (I tried to grab them with ViseGrips and couldn't remove them.) I seems to me that, if they are that tight, they don't spin. If they don't spin, then they rub against the frame and the frame wears thin. I smoothed them down with emery paper and a dremel tool and tried them again, and the suspension felt a lot smoother. The small bumps dissapeared. I still prefer the Risse for the linear spring rate and the increased travel.

    Did anyone else ride both a Quad and a TARA before buying? I thought the Quad pedaled way better than the TARA on demo rides. I also did not notice the spike at the end of the travel on the Quad on the demo ride. I went with the Mt Vision, but wonder if I should have gone for the Attack Trail for the increased travel. Anyone ride them both and have any comments?

    I noticed that Marin has the '05 model on their website. It has several great improvements over the '04. Improved shock, nicer seatpost, better brakes, better pedals. Seems like they are listening to their customers.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by armadillo
    I noticed that Marin has the '05 model on their website. It has several great improvements over the '04. Improved shock, nicer seatpost, better brakes, better pedals. Seems like they are listening to their customers.
    Awesome post! The 05's greater improvement in shocks is an RP3, a propedal. Do you feel this is an improvement even though you say propedal is not necessary because it gives you the option of a regular shock and two levels of propedal dampening?

    I was searching like crazy for just the frame, and it would have come with the 04 propedal (or maybe not if I was "lucky). I weigh 165, too, but wanted to race the Marin. Sounds like a noncoilover would be just the ticket with the progressive rate and firmer feel on the small stuff.

    Truth be known, everybody, I am thisclose to getting an 04 Intense Spider for a killer deal. It would be at dealer cost, but it's still about $800 more than the deal some have been getting from Adrenaline bikes. Ugh. I know the Spider isn't twice (more) as good, if at all.

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    armadillo, I saw on the Marin UK site that there is a new bushings/reducers/spacers for the fox shock available that have built in bearings. This would probably take care of the rubbing problem and they have the same life time warranty as the rest of the bearings.

    DanK, have you considered the turner burner frame, I hear good stuff and it is only $950?

    Good luck on your decision, let us know what happens.

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    I do feel that it would be an improvement, because it gives you choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by danK
    Awesome post! The 05's greater improvement in shocks is an RP3, a propedal. Do you feel this is an improvement even though you say propedal is not necessary because it gives you the option of a regular shock and two levels of propedal dampening?

    I was searching like crazy for just the frame, and it would have come with the 04 propedal (or maybe not if I was "lucky). I weigh 165, too, but wanted to race the Marin. Sounds like a noncoilover would be just the ticket with the progressive rate and firmer feel on the small stuff.

    Truth be known, everybody, I am thisclose to getting an 04 Intense Spider for a killer deal. It would be at dealer cost, but it's still about $800 more than the deal some have been getting from Adrenaline bikes. Ugh. I know the Spider isn't twice (more) as good, if at all.
    If you like the firm feel, you've got it at the flip of a lever. If you want to bypass the ProPedal, flip the lever. I had spoken to Fox about the shock (I couldn't get the plushness that I desired) and they thought that the ProPedal and the VPP design might conspire to make the platform/threshhold too high. Based on that thought, I would think a two level platform would be an improvement. But I still think the sticky bushing had something to do with it.

    danK, if you are looking for a race bike, you would probably be happy with the 04. Pedaling efficiency is great, and it takes out enough of the bumps to allow you to pedal all the time. I used a K2 5000 for the last 4.5 years - verrrry plush single pivot that was a brick going up the hills. This Spring, I bought a K2 Razorback frame and Noleen Mega Air fork (great fork for the money) and parts-ed it up. Pedals great - as good as the Marin - but the rear suspension is harsh. My 46 year old a** did not appreciate it, so I got the Marin. With the Razorback, I would have to rise out of the saddle on the rough stuff, which meant it was harder to keep pedaling and your traction would suffer. The Marin lets you sit and pedal constantly. On a really smooth course, the Razorback's one or two pound weight savings might help, but on any trail that gets rough, the Marin would keep you moving better.

    joelkamp, you wondered about the bushing/reducers. Is that Marin UK that makes them, or is it Whyte Bikes? I saw them listed on the Whyte Bikes website - they seemed to have a lot of the Fox bushings wear out over there. I wouldn't doubt that the poor fit has something to do with it.

    How do you guys like the Float RLC?

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    Armadillo, I did see the shock bushing on the Marin UK site but it is a Whyte Bikes design like the rest of the MV suspension. I plan on ordering a set when my frame arrives.

    Cheers

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by joelkamp
    armadillo, I saw on the Marin UK site that there is a new bushings/reducers/spacers for the fox shock available that have built in bearings. This would probably take care of the rubbing problem and they have the same life time warranty as the rest of the bearings.

    DanK, have you considered the turner burner frame, I hear good stuff and it is only $950?

    Good luck on your decision, let us know what happens.
    I thought about the $950 Burner before I got my Superlight but I wanted 4" and the Burner has 3.65". I know, I know. And I got my SL frame for $400! One of those deals rarely seen.

    So I bought an Intense Spider. 04, brand new, but I'm selling it to a local rider when it comes in cuz even though I got it for a screaming deal (cost), I have no right being on that frame and when I know I can have a frame that is almost the same but 2 to 2.5 times less (the $600 Marin) it just makes me rethink everything.

    The Giant Trance won't be out for a month and I can get 30% off retail so if it's $1100 to $1200 msrp that's a good deal for a 4" bike. It has two water cage mounts I can use, there's great support and warranty, and the price is right.

    At least this thread was informative. I learned a lot.

  33. #33
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    So actually 3 5/8 travel w/ Float

    [QUOTE=armadillo]... That, plus the rising rate suspension, did keep you from feeling like you had 4 inches of travel. I like the Risse shock and have it on for keeps. It has 1.75" shaft travel, which gives the rear wheel 4.25" of honest-to-God useable travel. (I put the shock on without the spring and pushed the rear wheel through its range of motion to measure the travel.)
    ...
    QUOTE]
    With a 2+ shock-shaft to travel rate, then a .25 inch difference would be more than 1/2 in possible suspension travel with a Float, or about 3 5/8 inch suspension travel with a Float (if armadillo's 4.25" travel mesurement was accurate with the Risse).

    That explains the short travel feel I experienced when demo riding the Mount Vision compared to some other "4 inch" travel bikes. With a Float it probaly only gets 3.5 inch usable max on big hits. That's why it feels shorter than a RacerX or my Tracer with Float when riding.

    - ray

  34. #34
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    Shaft travel/wheel travel is odd on this bike.

    [QUOTE=derby]
    Quote Originally Posted by armadillo
    ... That, plus the rising rate suspension, did keep you from feeling like you had 4 inches of travel. I like the Risse shock and have it on for keeps. It has 1.75" shaft travel, which gives the rear wheel 4.25" of honest-to-God useable travel. (I put the shock on without the spring and pushed the rear wheel through its range of motion to measure the travel.)
    ...
    QUOTE]
    With a 2+ shock-shaft to travel rate, then a .25 inch difference would be more than 1/2 in possible suspension travel with a Float, or about 3 5/8 inch suspension travel with a Float (if armadillo's 4.25" travel mesurement was accurate with the Risse).

    That explains the short travel feel I experienced when demo riding the Mount Vision compared to some other "4 inch" travel bikes. With a Float it probaly only gets 3.5 inch usable max on big hits. That's why it feels shorter than a RacerX or my Tracer with Float when riding.

    - ray
    I also thought that it did not get 4" of travel, after owning it for a while. But, if I remember correctly, if you release all the air from the Float it will travel 4". I was very surprised when I did this, because I expected less.

    I have measured wheel travel with the Float without air, and the Vanilla and Risse without coils. I would hang the bike by the seatpost with the rear wheel off the ground, then place a tape measure vertically next to the axle. Then I would push the rear wheel up and see how far it would go. Actually, without any shock in it, the wheel will rise 5". But, if you go too far up, the rear quicklink will swing up and hit the seatpost. This is why the seatpost has a cutout just above the quicklink - it allows more travel. And, if you try putting a longer shock in the frame (perhaps a 6.75"), the rear swingarm will rotate down and hit the quicklink. This is why I liked the Risse - it is just big enough to fit in the frame, but allows the shock to compress more. The frame does not hit itself in either direction.

    I think the shock travel vs. the wheel travel is odd because of the quicklinks. Because of the rearward-then-upward travel path, I don't think it is a constant 3:1 ratio. It is probably lower ratio at first, then higher ratio as the rear wheel moves further into its travel. This is a bad match-up with the progressive 04 Float.

    Something else to note with the Risse - like most coilovers, it has a bottom out bumper on the shaft. It is about 7-8 mm thick. If this were removed, it would get another 1/4 - 1/2" of travel. I would rather keep it on there to protect the frame from travelling too much and causing damage. The biggest benefit of the coilover is that you can actually use that last 1/4 - 1/2" of shaft travel since a coil spring is linear.

    If another MV owner would like to experiment, I would be interested in hearing what they find. Just let all the air out of the Float, and run it through its range of motion. My shock worked fine after that - just don't forget to air it back up before you hit the trail!

    I think the frame will allow 4" of travel with an air shock, as long as it is not too progressive. I was reading about the RP3 on another post (someone expressed with certainty that it has a 15% larger air volume than the 04 Float, and behaves like a 04 with AVA), and it seems to me that it is probably going to make the 05 MV a better bike (if you like plusher, longer travel). I keep thinking that maybe I should have waited a few more months before buying.

    Does anyone know if the 05 Float (fork) that is on the 05 MV is different from the 04 model? I wonder if it is less progressive than the 04.

  35. #35
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Mountain Bike Action Review

    My LBS (that just ordered my '04 Mount Vision Pro earlier this week) calle dto let me know that this months Mountain Bike Action mag had the Mount Vision on the cover and a full review.
    I picked up a copy and just read the review myself. They absolutely loved it!
    Some of the quotes:

    "We had to weigh the bike 3 times to believe the bikes weight of 24.4 lbs."
    "Next generation of innovative suspension system designs"
    "Believe the hype"
    "Marin out to hire us (MBA) to campaign the Quad-Link system for them"

    I'd say this is a great review especially considering how little Marin spends in MBA advertising.

  36. #36
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    Your frame

    Did it arrive from adrenaline bikes?
    I just called them (saturday, noon) for one last try, and they said they are out, but if they were to order one it would be $799 and with the Float RL.
    You made out!
    Last edited by danK; 10-16-2004 at 11:07 AM.

  37. #37
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    Wow, I wonder why the price change, I guess I really did luck out. Adrenaline just recieved the frame from Marin and it was shipped Friday. So I should see it some time at the end of next week, hopfully in time to take a nice weekend test ride.

    It is still listed on there website for 599, maybe just order one off the website and hope the honor the price.

    Quote Originally Posted by danK
    Did it arrive from adrenaline bikes?
    I just called them (saturday, noon) for one last try, and they said they are out, but if they were to order one it would be $799 and with the Float RL.
    You made out!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by joelkamp
    Wow, I wonder why the price change, I guess I really did luck out. Adrenaline just recieved the frame from Marin and it was shipped Friday. So I should see it some time at the end of next week, hopfully in time to take a nice weekend test ride.

    It is still listed on there website for 599, maybe just order one off the website and hope the honor the price.
    Hmmm, I can't find the frame alone no their site. I'd normally do the "order it and see what happens" but knowing Marin told me it's sold out, and Adrenaline telling me they don't have it but could order it for $799 with the old shock, I think it would lead to a big stink. I know I could get them to honor the price but if they don't have it, well, then it's a moot point.

    What do you think of the other posts saying it's getting 3 5/8" travel, that the shock is too progressive for the linkage?

  39. #39
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    It still on the stie under sale bikes and frames or it can be found by doing a search.

    Yeah, I am a little worried to hear people say it only get 3.5 inches of travel. But it sounds like something that can be modified with a shock change if it becomes a major issue. I guess I might wait to see what the 05 reviews say about the RP3 to see if it is a worth while upgrade. If I upgraded to the 05 RP3 I think I would still make out better than the retail on the 05 frame and have the 04 fox shox to sell or keep as a spare.

    I am curious as to why Marin says not to put an AVA sleeve on the bike to add more air volume and cut down the progression. Esentially that is what the RP3 is (minus the ability to change the pro pedal level), so why is it ok in 05 but not 04. I am planning on talking with Marin on that one to get a definitive answer.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by joelkamp
    It still on the stie under sale bikes and frames or it can be found by doing a search.

    Yeah, I am a little worried to hear people say it only get 3.5 inches of travel. But it sounds like something that can be modified with a shock change if it becomes a major issue. I guess I might wait to see what the 05 reviews say about the RP3 to see if it is a worth while upgrade. If I upgraded to the 05 RP3 I think I would still make out better than the retail on the 05 frame and have the 04 fox shox to sell or keep as a spare.

    I am curious as to why Marin says not to put an AVA sleeve on the bike to add more air volume and cut down the progression. Esentially that is what the RP3 is (minus the ability to change the pro pedal level), so why is it ok in 05 but not 04. I am planning on talking with Marin on that one to get a definitive answer.
    Yeah, you would still come in under retail by a few hundred bucks even if you purchased an rp3 and didn't sell the 04 shock.
    I found the frame link and it does not give you size options. Odd.

  41. #41
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    I initially called adrenaline to order the frame but they told me they were sold out. I then called marin to find out if they had any frames left, they said yep sure do but that I would have to order through a dealer. So I decided to just give it a shot on the Adrenaline website anyway, this way I figured if they did get any frames in or could order any I would be ablt to get the 599 price. I figured the worst that could happen was they would tell me they could not get the frame. I put in the order, with no frame size and figured they would call me. Sure enough 15 min later I got a phone call telling me that they were currently out of stock but could order one from Marin in any size I needed. Also note that I was also told I would have to be charged the 25 dollars for shipping that is mentioned in the ad not the shipping cost that was calculated during the online order process.

    Overall kinda of a weird way for a transaction to work out. But I have found for the most part Adrenaline to be helpful, friendly and good to work with in all but the one phone call where they told me they did not have and and could not get the frame that 30 min later they somehow could. I however wont know for sure until the frame arrives.

  42. #42
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    Idea! Frame

    DanK,

    You may try Bicycle Blowout at (877)612-5914. They end up with alot of Marin bikes/frames from the previous season.

    Lance

  43. #43
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    No luck with Bicycle Blowouts. Thanks anyway (nm)

    ...... ... ... . . . .. .

  44. #44
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    Greg at Adrenaline sent an email saying he can get one!
    I'll see exactly what is up.

  45. #45
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    Mine is suppose to arrive on Thursday, if the UPS tracking is correct. At that point DanK I might be able to answer any questions you have about the frame from adrenaline before you buy. I did find out that it does not come with the remote lock out for the rear shock, which is not really a big deal for me.

  46. #46
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    Frame is here

    Frame just arrived last night. So far very impressed with the frame quality and function. I also really like the look of this frame too! As I think armadillo mentioned the rear travel is exceptionally smooth with the shock aired down. The quadradic acrh travel path also seems pretty slick.

    The frame is the mount vision (not MV pro) frame with the blue markings, has fox pro pedal float R with lock (no remote lockout).

    I have not had time to build up the frame yet as I had to go to Game 7 of the NLCS and watch the Cards clinch the series. (Go Cards) So hopfully tonight I will get a chance to build, and test ride tomorrow to really see how well it works.

    Also note that the Head tube is very long on the large bike (like 6"), I am a little bit worried that my steer tube is too short.

    Anyone have opinions on haveing a short steer tube (3/8 inch short of top of stem), is there much danger in ridding like this besides for haveing to tighten up the headset more often?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by joelkamp
    Frame just arrived last night. So far very impressed with the frame quality and function. I also really like the look of this frame too! As I think armadillo mentioned the rear travel is exceptionally smooth with the shock aired down. The quadradic acrh travel path also seems pretty slick.

    The frame is the mount vision (not MV pro) frame with the blue markings, has fox pro pedal float R with lock (no remote lockout).

    I have not had time to build up the frame yet as I had to go to Game 7 of the NLCS and watch the Cards clinch the series. (Go Cards) So hopfully tonight I will get a chance to build, and test ride tomorrow to really see how well it works.

    Also note that the Head tube is very long on the large bike (like 6"), I am a little bit worried that my steer tube is too short.

    Anyone have opinions on haveing a short steer tube (3/8 inch short of top of stem), is there much danger in ridding like this besides for haveing to tighten up the headset more often?

    Awesome! Adrenaline Bikes comes through.
    Almost 1/2" short of the top of the stem? Is the top bolt on the stem's head clamping onto steerer tube?
    Maybe you should post this question with a fresh thread to get more replies. That's what I'd do.

    And seeing as how we've had great discussions over this, I'm about to "ruin" it: Go Sox (former Bostonian)!!!

  48. #48
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    Good job! Mount Vision Pro is In!!!

    All,
    Just received my '04 Mount Vision Pro yesterday. Sweet bike!
    Finished setting it up today and will ride tomorrow. I need to weigh it to see if it comes in at 24.4lbs. as advertised.
    I haven't and probably won't install the remote lockout switch for the fork/shock.

    Lance

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance
    All,
    Just received my '04 Mount Vision Pro yesterday. Sweet bike!
    Finished setting it up today and will ride tomorrow. I need to weigh it to see if it comes in at 24.4lbs. as advertised.
    I haven't and probably won't install the remote lockout switch for the fork/shock.

    Lance
    Man, all this talk of Mount Visions is making me crazy in a good way. The $624 price delivered for the frame is just too good. I'd need to get a seatpost, front D and headset, though. The Giant Trance takes my current post, front D and has the headset included. Decisions, decisions. Thankfully it's winter and not the prime riding or I'd have to buy NOW.
    Be sure to update us with a new post when all is said and done with the setup.

  50. #50
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    See new thread (Marin Mount Vision) in the what bike to buy. There are pics of the built up frame.

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