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  1. #1
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    Forge Sawback 5xx 17" Silver

    Hello all, just wanted to drop a line and let everyknow know my new bike came in. This is the 2007 model and below I've uploaded some pics for you all to check it out. I'll be happy to answer any of your questions, just post them. I have lots of pics (at least 30) and I can take more of components or whatever. Now, on to the important stuff.

    The box with everything in it weighs 39lbs. The bike (wrapped up as it comes out of the box, but without seat and front brake assembly) weighs in at roughly 28lbs. The bike fully assembled weighs in at 31.5lbs (pretty light if you ask me). If you can't deal with that you're a weak ass, it already feels like I'm riding on an air bike... feels like I have nothing under me. Of course I'm used to good ol' steel bikes... ahh, those were the days. Anyway, the bike rides nice, but I haven't gotten to really ride it because it was dark out before it was fully together. This brings me to the difficulty of the build. Basically I couldn't find the directions in the box (no big deal, they are on the website), but I didn't use any directions and it wasn't too difficult. I will say that if you don't work on cars or are at least mechnaically inclined you may not want to attempt it. It's not difficult, but you can't do it in 30 minutes unless you rush it... or you've done it before at least once. I can probably do it quicker now since I know how to goes together and the first time I didn't have directions so I had to make sense of a few things... like flipping the handbar stem right-side up. It's upside down from the factory and while I thought at first that it was improperly installed I realized it was mounted like this in order to clear the box when the bike is packaged and placed in it. Anyway, here's the pics... enjoy.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
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    More pics.
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  3. #3
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    And some more...

    The first picture shows the upside down stem. MAKE SURE YOU FLIP THIS BEFORE YOU PUT THE HANDLEBAR ON!!! It's like this for shipping clerence in the box the bikes comes in.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by JRSCCivic98; 04-28-2007 at 06:13 PM.

  4. #4
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    You guessed it... more pics.
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  5. #5
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    I like the color of the bike. I just wish they had that color in a size 19''.

  6. #6
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    that looks really awesome. well done...

    I still cannot believe the components on that bike for the money.....the frame looks good too...

    now we need some trail pics...
    Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces smart people into thinking they can't lose. - Bill Gates

  7. #7
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    Thanks, I think the bike is really awesome. I'll probably be taking it to a LBS to get things adjusted a little and checked over just for kicks. Actually, I want to take it in and see what they think of it's build and quality. I can tell you I like it more then a Giant I was looking at a few weeks ago. BTW, anyone have any good ideas on where, if at all, I should ziptie the front brake cable to the fork? There's a guide looking thing on the inside of the fork top (the horseshoe looking portion) where it has tabs on each side. It looks like the cable can sit in that channel and then gets zipped to the fork. Only issue here is that the cable then rubs on the silver part of the fork tube... will that be an issue? I can take pics if that will make it easier. Let me know.

  8. #8
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    Thank You!! A preview to my order (It's been "Shipping Soon" for 2 days).

    I have a few questions about you and the feel of the bike. How tall are you, weight, and what’s the stand over height like? How much was your total? Mine was $335.26 (Items: $319.99, Shipping: $29.99, Promotion Applied: -$32.00, Tax: $17.28)

    Also a shot from the front, above the wheel looking slightly down would be nice.

  9. #9
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    Reccomend this?

    Would you guys reccomend this to someone looking to upgrade from a trek 820?

  10. #10
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    all the components are MUCH better. disc brakes, suspension fork actual brand name stuff rather than trek bontrager components. it would be a major upgrade.
    Ibex bikes

    2007 Ibex Trophy SS
    2006 Jamis Komodo 3.0
    2006 Ibex Zone FR-1
    2004 Special-Ed P.2 A.1

  11. #11
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    The welds look super clean!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    Thank You!! A preview to my order (It's been "Shipping Soon" for 2 days).

    I have a few questions about you and the feel of the bike. How tall are you, weight, and what’s the stand over height like? How much was your total? Mine was $335.26 (Items: $319.99, Shipping: $29.99, Promotion Applied: -$32.00, Tax: $17.28)

    Also a shot from the front, above the wheel looking slightly down would be nice.
    I'm 5'10" (roughly) and 151lbs. Standover is pretty good. The bike is not big and after riding it a little last night it doesn't feel small. I'll know more today. There is definatly enough clerence for me if I was to take it off-road (should be a minimum of 4 inches). I picked the 17" because I sat on a 18" Giant at an LBS and it felt a little big. I didn't want to risk it with the 19". In the end really, the standover hight difference is less then 1 inch between the bikes... how different can they be. Of course you can't be sure unless you sit on both of them. Anyway, the 17" feels fine to me. As for price.... everyone pays the same price. Basically it would be no different then going in and buying the bike directly. The price you pay in shipping is offset by the promotion discount, but you still have to pay tax which sucks.

  13. #13
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    Oh yeah, anyone know what I need to be able to fill the tires up. From the looks of the valves on the tires a regular pump won't work. Is there an adapter or something? What's up with super special valves on there?

  14. #14
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    they're called "presta valves" I personally think they're 10X better than schreader valves {normal kind} go to your local bike shop, or even your local sporting goods store and look for these

    http://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...+Adaptors.aspx
    Ibex bikes

    2007 Ibex Trophy SS
    2006 Jamis Komodo 3.0
    2006 Ibex Zone FR-1
    2004 Special-Ed P.2 A.1

  15. #15
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    ^^^ Cool thanks. I ended up doing some searching and finding out about those adapters. Also found out that most pumps today have convertible heads for both Presta and Schreader valves. I might end up going that way since I need a new pump to have in the garage for emergencies. Besides, it's less then $20 for a Bell pump w/guage.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by todd_freeride
    all the components are MUCH better. disc brakes, suspension fork actual brand name stuff rather than trek bontrager components. it would be a major upgrade.
    ?? Whats wrong with Bontrager components? I have some and its bombproof stuff.
    Every company has its good and bad. Even race face. Truvativ, all bad in my opinion..
    If anybody wants Truvativ cranks cheap, brandnew,, pm me

  17. #17
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    truvativ noir cranks look so cool though lol.

    the trek bontrager stuff i just low end stuff with bontager's name on it

  18. #18
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    Well, I went out and did some riding this afternoon on the road to test things out. Had to tighten up the front fork preload a little, but other then that it went well. Last night I had thought I had some rubbing of the chain on the front derailer on the middle gear, but it was false. Don't know what I was hearing, but all the gears work just fine... doesn't miss a shift or anything. So far I'm happy with the purchase. We'll see how things hold up. Only immediate negative........ my ass hurts a little.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
    Anyway, the bike rides nice, but I haven't gotten to really ride it because it was dark out before it was fully together.
    Quote Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
    Oh yeah, anyone know what I need to be able to fill the tires up.
    So the tires came inflated? I ask because I was kind of rushing to get an adapter before my bike came (It shipped last night) and assumed from what I read on shipping bikes the tires would be deflated.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickerman1
    ?? Whats wrong with Bontrager components? I have some and its bombproof stuff.
    Every company has its good and bad. Even race face. Truvativ, all bad in my opinion..
    If anybody wants Truvativ cranks cheap, brandnew,, pm me
    bontrager have great stuff, it just doesnt come on the trek bikes unless you spend a lot of green.
    Ibex bikes

    2007 Ibex Trophy SS
    2006 Jamis Komodo 3.0
    2006 Ibex Zone FR-1
    2004 Special-Ed P.2 A.1

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    So the tires came inflated? I ask because I was kind of rushing to get an adapter before my bike came (It shipped last night) and assumed from what I read on shipping bikes the tires would be deflated.
    The tires came inflated, but not to the correct range. The range on the Kenda's are 40-65. The tires were at 20psi pressure shipped. Enough for me to test ride it on my driveway, but definatly not on the road. I inflated mine to 50psi once I got a pump today. I went by the bike shop today and picked up a nice floor pump with gauge and a tip that does both valves without an adapter. Either way, go by a shop and pickup an adapter for like $1.50. You're not going to want to ride it on 20psi pressure.

    A couple of points for you to know when you do the install yourself for the bike.

    1) Make sure you mount the front brake disc correctly (look at it because it has an arrow for rotation or you could just match the pattern to that of the back disc). Also, torque the bolts for it in a certain order... there's a sheet with the correct order in the little box that has all the paperwork in it.

    2) Make sure you flip the handlebar stem right-side up before you install the handbar.

    3) The front brake caliper comes with a fork adapter installed on the caliper itself, but the caliper is not mounted to the Dart fork. So, when you install the caliper you have to take off the adapter from the caliper. It's 2 bolts that comes off (look for the black bracket on it). Then install the caliper to the Dart fork. You don't use the adapter for the Dart forks.

    4) Pay close attention to the pedals... there is a "left" and "right" pedal. It will say R or L on the end of the threaded part that goes into the crank.

    That's about it I think. Good luck.... I know the wait is probably killing you. It did me.

  22. #22
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    Nice looking bike...
    -_0
    _ `\<,_
    (+)/ (+)
    Like life…the trail is unpredictable...

  23. #23
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    Where did you order it from? Target online?
    Ibex bikes

    2007 Ibex Trophy SS
    2006 Jamis Komodo 3.0
    2006 Ibex Zone FR-1
    2004 Special-Ed P.2 A.1

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by todd_freeride
    Where did you order it from? Target online?
    Correct

    17" Frame
    19" Frame

    Don't forget to Google for a 10% off coupon.

  25. #25
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    I should get one.........:)

    How does it ride offroad? I am thinking about getting one.

  26. #26
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    Good job! Nice looking bike

    Very clean looking, welds look great, but I wouldn't expect less from something coming out of Gian'ts manufacturing facility. Thanks for the detailed report! Be sure to give us a comprehensive ride report, too.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  27. #27
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    JRS awesome photos!! Thanks. I've own my Sawback 5xx Matte Blue 19" for a year, awesome bikes, I agree. I rode all day yesterday, man it felt great!! Dude, your pictures are such a tease... I want one. I dig the changes this year . Keep us posted, I'm out of here. Going riding!!! Late.

  28. #28
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    Thanks everyone for the comments. I haven't taken it off road yet... it's so new and clean I didn't want to get it dirty I will be going off road here shortly with it though, it is a "mountain bike" after all isn't it. Anyway, I rode yesterday on the road and hopped a few curbs with it. Seems fine, no issues. I figure I'll break it in little by little testing things out rather then just going balls out the first day. One thing I have to say though.... the tires kinda suck. I don't know why they went to cheap Kendas this year... maybe it was to offset the cost of the Dart fork or something. Hey, does anyone still have the spec sheet from last year's models? I want to see what's changed... I'm pretty sure the tires were better last year. Were the rear casettes SRAM last year as well?

  29. #29
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    nice bike

    really for the $, very nice, the frame is a giant frame? is that correct, welds are nice and clean ...nice bike man

  30. #30
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    Yes it is

    Quote Originally Posted by txjohng
    really for the $, very nice, the frame is a giant frame? is that correct, welds are nice and clean ...nice bike man
    Soem research shows that the Forge line of bikes is identical to certain models Giant sells in one of the Pacific Rim countries.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

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    Well, went riding some more today... somewhere between 5-10 miles I think. A little bit of it was some minor offroad and some jumps. All I can say is that the thing is holding up just fine. Did some highspeed road riding, all the high gears... the thing is pretty quick. On the minor jumps I did take (curbs and ditches) the fork is holding up fine. According to the grease rings on the fork it's not compressing more then 40mm (half-way), but that's with the preload turned up maybe midway (I have it set so that it only dips a little on hard breaking)... I didn't like the nosedives it took on the stock setting. The shifting (offroad and onroad) are on the fly. No drips and no errors. You hit the shifter and it shifts, it doesn't care if you're on smooth road or pounding the hardtail on the dirt, it just does it. Oh and the brakes... let's just say that I like disc brakes better then V's. If you like to lock up the rear offroad to help with quick turns, you'll like these. Overall and on the second day only I like the bike. There were a few times offroad that I wished it wasn't a hardtail, but that's just inexperience on my part. Everyone knows it's easier and more forgiving to have FS for that. However, I couldn't bring myself to go with the 7xx because I wanted the Deore drivetrain... that and I don't like the frame layout of the 7xx. Anyway, I'll report back once I go back out and do some more offroading.

    Oh yeah, something to add. There's some minor "harmonic viabration" through the frame on the road when going as faster speeds. Don't know if it's drivetrain related or something else. You guys know what I'm talking about... it's like a slight buzzing you feel and hear.
    Last edited by JRSCCivic98; 04-29-2007 at 12:55 PM.

  32. #32
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    Tire noise, perhaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
    Oh yeah, something to add. There's some minor "harmonic viabration" through the frame on the road when going as faster speeds. Don't know if it's drivetrain related or something else. You guys know what I'm talking about... it's like a slight buzzing you feel and hear.
    This could very well be the result of the knobby tires on the road. It will produce the sound you describe.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  33. #33
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    I know that when I ride my mtn bike on the road (and the road is flat and clean), going 15-20 mph there's a buzzing sound... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  34. #34
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    I just got my 19" 5xx together last night.... so far so good! My nervousness over the size went away as soon as I sat on it..... I think its a great fit for me (5'9" 200lb). It didn't get to ride it more than up and down the driveway, hopefully more soon.

    I am hoping to take it to a LBS this week just to double check and fine tune it.

    I too wasn't sure where to route the front brake cable. Right now its running along the back side of the fork, but needs to be secured.

  35. #35
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    How is such a good bike available at Target?

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    Got me, works for me. I've had mine for over a year... Great bikes, I also bought the M Street for my wife. I really would like the new one this year, sweet look and components. Man what a tease!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeepinmike
    I just got my 19" 5xx together last night.... so far so good! My nervousness over the size went away as soon as I sat on it..... I think its a great fit for me (5'9" 200lb). It didn't get to ride it more than up and down the driveway, hopefully more soon.

    I am hoping to take it to a LBS this week just to double check and fine tune it.

    I too wasn't sure where to route the front brake cable. Right now its running along the back side of the fork, but needs to be secured.
    Damn, 5'9" and you fit on the 19"? Humm, I'm 5'10" and think the 17" is a comfy fit. I guess it's probably because the standover difference is so small. Anyway, I ran my cable on the left side of the form and crossing over between the silver tube and top of the fork. If you look at the wheel overpass (dunno what you call it) of the for on the back of it you'll see 4 small dimples, kind of like guides of some kind. Anyway, the cable sits securely between them and I put a ziptie around it there. Holds it securely and it doesn't touch any of the moving fork parts. Let me know if you want me to take a pic to see what I'm talking about.

  38. #38
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    Can anyone else answer my question? Are the bikes you order from target.com assembled by target or does forge assemble them and they are drop shipped by target.com to your house?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
    Damn, 5'9" and you fit on the 19"? Humm, I'm 5'10" and think the 17" is a comfy fit. I guess it's probably because the standover difference is so small. Anyway, I ran my cable on the left side of the form and crossing over between the silver tube and top of the fork. If you look at the wheel overpass (dunno what you call it) of the for on the back of it you'll see 4 small dimples, kind of like guides of some kind. Anyway, the cable sits securely between them and I put a ziptie around it there. Holds it securely and it doesn't touch any of the moving fork parts. Let me know if you want me to take a pic to see what I'm talking about.
    I went buy the website, and I was right on the cut off.... err'ed on the big size due to my being uncomfortable on a smaller (exact size unknown) bike.... I guess time will tell. Funny thing is the seat is pushed back on the rails too. Standover is comfy with ~3" clearance.

    I know where you are talking on the fork. I am going to take another look.

    I got it tuned today and took a few laps around the block, and it really felt good! I had some conversations with Mike from Forge and the LBS owner today...... Mike is very helpful and tentative to concerns, plus he is a rider himself. The LBS owner was ultimately impressed I think. He thought it was at least a $400 bike, and besides questioning the frame, he praised everything else.

    I am still trying to justify the purchase, but I do that.... unfortunitally only time will tell.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChapmanMTB27
    Can anyone else answer my question? Are the bikes you order from target.com assembled by target or does forge assemble them and they are drop shipped by target.com to your house?
    From my research Target doesn't touch the bikes. It's unknown if they are stored at Forge and drop shipped (not as likely) or Forge is using Target as the warehouse and advertiser (more likely). The bike is NOT available in stores.

    From my understanding Forge is trying to bridge the gap between you department store bike and lbs bike.

    New Forge Bikes up on Target.com
    Forge Sawback 5xx Silver is back in stock
    Choose Bikes

  41. #41
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    The "From" address on my box is Target.com Returns Center in Massillion, OH. Definately coming from a Target warehouse somewhere and not shipped from Forge. More then likely the bikes go from the factory to Target where they get shipped to buyers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
    The "From" address on my box is Target.com Returns Center in Massillion, OH. Definately coming from a Target warehouse somewhere and not shipped from Forge. More then likely the bikes go from the factory to Target where they get shipped to buyers.
    Mine should be arriving today so I'll check it out. UPS shows it originating from SHARONVILLE, OH.

    I'll let you know about the dropout areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    I'll let you know about the dropout areas.
    Cool. Yeah, I'm interested to know. I also want to know if your stem is one bolt or two bolt.

  44. #44
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    Mine was direct from Forge's Warehouse, I think they do both, probably depends on location or fulfillment. But from what I understand, Target doesn't touch the bikes. Mine was perfect when it was shipped to me. JRS any dirt pics yet?

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    The bike arrived a day early with my order from blueskycycling.com. In classic UPS fashion there was some damage to the box but not the worst I've seen from UPS.

    Overall the bike looked good. There were a couple of scratches on the frame and a couple on the components/parts. First issue was the bottom bolt for the handle bars. It was not smooth like the top and I had to use a LOT of force from about 1/3 of the way down to tighten it. Top bolt was nice and smooth.

    My next annoyance/issue was the front wheel, 2 things.. First were the springs on the quick release bolt. There had gotten wrapped around each other. This probably took more time than anything as in the end I had to get a small flathead and needle nose pliers to get them apart without destroying the springs. Next was UPSs fault. One of the nice gashed in the box happen to be right on the front wheel. This cause the plastic cover protecting the wheel to shear of leaving plastic in the quick release bolt hole. No problem in the end, but I was scratching my head for a second.

    I didn't get a chance to ride as my pump/converter didn't work, but I did get my CatEye micro wireless computer and water bottle cage installed.

    Pics of the bike and everything.
    http://www.x2-hosting.com/Forge

  46. #46
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    Thank you for the pictures jleecong! I am sorry if this has already been covered but can someone tell me everything they had to assemble? From jleecong's pictures it looks like almost everything was already on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    My next annoyance/issue was the front wheel, 2 things.. First were the springs on the quick release bolt. There had gotten wrapped around each other. This probably took more time than anything as in the end I had to get a small flathead and needle nose pliers to get them apart without destroying the springs.
    if you take the springs off the skewer, they just slide apart. you over thought that one way to much....

    glad to see another happy owner.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeepinmike
    I went buy the website, and I was right on the cut off.... err'ed on the big size due to my being uncomfortable on a smaller (exact size unknown) bike.... I guess time will tell. Funny thing is the seat is pushed back on the rails too. Standover is comfy with ~3" clearance.
    A short ride last night of mixed asphalt and pot-holed gravel road was really good. I was very comfotable on the bike, and didn't feel stretched out at all. I was at a very nice angle for both on-road and off. The bike took the pot-holes in stride, and was amazingly smooth on the pavement.

    So far so good.

    I would recommend Forges guidelines for height if you are 'average' proportions, and adjust accordingly if you are short legged and long torso'ed for example.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeepinmike
    if you take the springs off the skewer, they just slide apart. you over thought that one way to much....

    glad to see another happy owner.
    That was the problem one was locked in the middle (locked to the skewer), It wouldn't move. I had to take a small flat head and needle nose to loosen it so it would slide down the skewer. Just a annoyance.

  50. #50
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    Another question, does anyone have Forge's email? I keep trying to call them with no answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChapmanMTB27
    Thank you for the pictures jleecong! I am sorry if this has already been covered but can someone tell me everything they had to assemble? From jleecong's pictures it looks like almost everything was already on it.
    If memory is working you need to install the following..

    Flip Stem, Install Seat, Install Pedals, Mount Handle Bars.
    Mount disk to front wheel, insert skewer, mount front wheel, mount disk brake, wire disk brake.
    Adjust, Adjust, Adjust.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChapmanMTB27
    Another question, does anyone have Forge's email? I keep trying to call them with no answer.
    From what I have read you need to leave a message and they will call you back. They are a small company.

    What info are you looking for?

  53. #53
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    Jleecong, that's all I needed to assemble as well. Great pictures!!! Well done, l like what they did this year , seems as if the frame is lighter as well. Has anyone bought the blue? Please report!!!! My Sawback is last years in matte blue, i'm told it's the same matte blue (19") but with enhanced graphics and frame. I may buy another.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    The bike arrived a day early with my order from blueskycycling.com. In classic UPS fashion there was some damage to the box but not the worst I've seen from UPS.

    Overall the bike looked good. There were a couple of scratches on the frame and a couple on the components/parts. First issue was the bottom bolt for the handle bars. It was not smooth like the top and I had to use a LOT of force from about 1/3 of the way down to tighten it. Top bolt was nice and smooth.

    My next annoyance/issue was the front wheel, 2 things.. First were the springs on the quick release bolt. There had gotten wrapped around each other. This probably took more time than anything as in the end I had to get a small flathead and needle nose pliers to get them apart without destroying the springs. Next was UPSs fault. One of the nice gashed in the box happen to be right on the front wheel. This cause the plastic cover protecting the wheel to shear of leaving plastic in the quick release bolt hole. No problem in the end, but I was scratching my head for a second.

    I didn't get a chance to ride as my pump/converter didn't work, but I did get my CatEye micro wireless computer and water bottle cage installed.

    Pics of the bike and everything.
    http://www.x2-hosting.com/Forge
    Same issue with mine. Box had a little bit of compression on it, but was not gouged like yours was. I think Forge needs to have bigger writing (perhaps even in ebonics) for THIS SIDE UP and FRAGILE! Anyway, the bottom bolt on the handlebar section of the stem was the same way for me. At first I thought it was stripped a little because the engagement was rough once it was threaded in a little. I decided to wing it and keep turning and it was fine. Once you get it tight the first time, if you have to take it out again it's smooth so don't worry too much about that.... I had to do that to reroute one of my cable because I didn't like the way it was kinking midway down the top tube. The quickrelease springs... same deal with me, they were twisted and interlocked on each other, luckly I'm a wiz with puzzles so I just "unscrewed" them from eachother... I think they do this to keep them secured during shipping so they don't get lost. Other then that, the bike looks good. One question though. Do the handlebars need to be at that angle or can you just mount it at whatever's comfortable for you? Mine's at an angle where the brake levers and more horrizontal then yours are at. Is that wrong? I guess if I were to ride standing and pushed forward towards the front of the bike my wrists would need to vertically to be able to hit the brakes. What's the appopriate angle? Should one stand like that and make sure that your wrists are perfectly streight when you depress the levers? Let me know. Bike looks good though.... go jump it a little and you'll see how light it feels. BTW, can you weigh yours as well. Mine came out at 31.5lbs with everything. I want to make sure everyone weighs theirs so that we can find out if there's any scale differences from one person to another... I think everyone's main gripe in the past has been the heavyness of the frame. If you ask me it's light as anything, but I never got to experience the 2006 versions so I can't tell you if they are lighter or not. Bikefun, how about you weigh yours and let's see?

    BTW, I see your dropout area in the back is not black/dark blue either.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikefun
    Jleecong, that's all I needed to assemble as well. Great pictures!!! Well done, l like what they did this year , seems as if the frame is lighter as well. Has anyone bought the blue? Please report!!!! My Sawback is last years in matte blue, i'm told it's the same matte blue (19") but with enhanced graphics and frame. I may buy another.
    I have the 19", which is the 'blue' model. Its a matte blue, the graphics are a little fancyer, but not too different from pics I have seen of last years.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChapmanMTB27
    Another question, does anyone have Forge's email? I keep trying to call them with no answer.
    If you leave a message they should call back. I have had a few conversations with them (mostly Mike), and have been very pleased with them.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
    The quickrelease springs... same deal with me, they were twisted and interlocked on each other, luckly I'm a wiz with puzzles so I just "unscrewed" them from eachother... I think they do this to keep them secured during shipping so they don't get lost.
    I tried that but because one spring was “locked” to the skewer it wouldn’t untwist. I had to loosen the one side then it came apart exactly as you describe “untwist”.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
    One question though. Do the handlebars need to be at that angle or can you just mount it at whatever's comfortable for you? Mine's at an angle where the brake levers and more horrizontal then yours are at. Is that wrong? I guess if I were to ride standing and pushed forward towards the front of the bike my wrists would need to vertically to be able to hit the brakes. What's the appopriate angle? Should one stand like that and make sure that your wrists are perfectly streight when you depress the levers? Let me know.
    I actually followed the direction on that one. The manual said you wanted the break levers at about a 45 degree angle (or something). I’m more used to them being strait out (like in your pic), but I’ll test ride and adjust to what feels right.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
    BTW, can you weigh yours as well. Mine came out at 31.5lbs with everything. I want to make sure everyone weighs theirs so that we can find out if there's any scale differences from one person to another... I think everyone's main gripe in the past has been the heavyness of the frame.
    Will do when I get home from work.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
    BTW, I see your dropout area in the back is not black/dark blue either.
    Yea… Forge needs to fix/correct it. Looks a little silly with the stickers just ending, but I didn’t buy it for looks.

  58. #58
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    Nice bike

    I wish they made a 15" for my wife. I wonder if if has enough clearance for someone 5'4". It would be the perfect bike for my brother in law, he's the strongest rider I have met but rides the 100USD walmart bike I left when I bought my specialized.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
    BTW, can you weigh yours as well. Mine came out at 31.5lbs with everything. I want to make sure everyone weighs theirs so that we can find out if there's any scale differences from one person to another... I think everyone's main gripe in the past has been the heavyness of the frame. If you ask me it's light as anything, but I never got to experience the 2006 versions so I can't tell you if they are lighter or not. Bikefun, how about you weigh yours and let's see?
    32 lbs with the bottle cage and computer, all reflectors attached.

    EDIT: My scale measures in half pound increments.
    Last edited by jleecong; 05-03-2007 at 02:54 PM.

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    jeepinmike,
    What's your inseam length and how tall are you? I'm considering the 19" but my inseam is just barely over 32" and I'm a little concerned it may be too big for me despite being 5'11". I've read in some threads that stand-over height isn't all that important, but I'm not sure on this one seeing as I like my stuff.

    Edit: Just in case anyone else wants to chime in, their website states that the 19" fits most riders 5'9"-6'1" while having a stand-over height of 31.7". The 17" fits most riders 5'5"-5'8" and has a stand-over height of 30.9". Which size would anyone suggest?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by thaar; 05-03-2007 at 03:30 PM.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    32 lbs with the bottle cage and computer, all reflectors attached.

    EDIT: My scale measures in half pound increments.
    OMG, your bike so fat!!! Looks like the bottle cage and puter added about .5lbs. I'm glad we got pretty much the same weight values. I gota find last year's stats on this thing to see if it's lighter.... We need BIKEFUN to weigh his and tell us what it comes in at.

    Ok, I found my printout of last year's stats. The weight was 32.7lbs. The tires were IRC Mythos (probably better then this year's pos Kenda ones). I think the chain was also better, it was a Shimano CN-HG73.
    Last edited by JRSCCivic98; 05-03-2007 at 05:50 PM.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by thaar
    jeepinmike,
    What's your inseam length and how tall are you? I'm considering the 19" but my inseam is just barely over 32" and I'm a little concerned it may be too big for me despite being 5'11". I've read in some threads that stand-over height isn't all that important, but I'm not sure on this one seeing as I like my stuff.

    Edit: Just in case anyone else wants to chime in, their website states that the 19" fits most riders 5'9"-6'1" while having a stand-over height of 31.7". The 17" fits most riders 5'5"-5'8" and has a stand-over height of 30.9". Which size would anyone suggest?

    Thanks.
    I'll have to get my inseam and get back to you.... I'm right around 5'9".

    *edit* inseam is 33.5" floor to crotch, with sneakers on.
    Last edited by jeepinmike; 05-04-2007 at 02:26 PM.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by thaar
    jeepinmike,
    What's your inseam length and how tall are you? I'm considering the 19" but my inseam is just barely over 32" and I'm a little concerned it may be too big for me despite being 5'11". I've read in some threads that stand-over height isn't all that important, but I'm not sure on this one seeing as I like my stuff.

    Edit: Just in case anyone else wants to chime in, their website states that the 19" fits most riders 5'9"-6'1" while having a stand-over height of 31.7". The 17" fits most riders 5'5"-5'8" and has a stand-over height of 30.9". Which size would anyone suggest?

    Thanks.
    I would go with the 19". I'm 5' 8ish and the 17 is perfect. Here is the 17".
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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
    OMG, your bike so fat!!! Looks like the bottle cage and puter added about .5lbs. I'm glad we got pretty much the same weight values. I gota find last year's stats on this thing to see if it's lighter.... We need BIKEFUN to weigh his and tell us what it comes in at.

    Ok, I found my printout of last year's stats. The weight was 32.7lbs. The tires were IRC Mythos (probably better then this year's pos Kenda ones). I think the chain was also better, it was a Shimano CN-HG73.
    I removed all the reflectors and weighed again (I added handlebar ends). With me holding the bike I got 33.5lbs. I removed the computer, still 33.5lbs. I next weighed just the bike. I held the rear brake and set the bike on the scale by the rear wheel. 31.5, 32.5, 32, 32.5 were my weights. I would think it’s safe to say factory weight is about 31.5 to 32 pounds with pedals.

    It's also 30+ degrees cooler in my garage now than it was yesterday afternoon. If anyone is friends with a vet, a vet scale would be perfect.
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  65. #65
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    I like the handlebar ends. Who makes those and how much were they? I was going to buy a silver aluminum water bottle cage, but I kinda like the way the black looks now. I'm going to have to go by the LBS today and check some things out. Where'd you get yours?

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
    I like the handlebar ends. Who makes those and how much were they? I was going to buy a silver aluminum water bottle cage, but I kinda like the way the black looks now. I'm going to have to go by the LBS today and check some things out. Where'd you get yours?
    Both items are from BlueSkyCycling.com.

    Delta Water Bottle Cage $2.19
    Profile Design SOS Stubby Bar Ends $14.98

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeepinmike
    I have the 19", which is the 'blue' model. Its a matte blue, the graphics are a little fancyer, but not too different from pics I have seen of last years.
    Any pics? The picture they have on the website doesn't look like last years matte color. I was just curious to see some real photos of the 19".

  68. #68
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    I've been patiently researching for about a month now on what the right bike will be for myself, and after reading the threads about the sawback all day yesterday, i've decided it is the perfect bike for my needs. I just ordered it this morning (unfortunately didn't get the free shipping, but did get the 10% off plus 4% from ebates although i don't know how that works). I got the 19" as i am 6'0" 175lb. Very excited to receive the bike, I suppose it'll be here sometime in the next week. I'll keep everyone posted on how I end up feeling about it, however from what some of you have said, I should be very satisfied!

  69. #69
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    Well, went to the LBS today to look around for some stuff and stumbled across a silver carbon water bottle cage. Anyway, I thought it would look good on ma' ride so I bought it. Here's some pics.... and it's only 30grams.

    It's one of these....
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  70. #70
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    Nice

  71. #71
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    That bottle cage is pimp.

    I think I'll save for one of these Forge bikes, I'll be getting the 19" since everyone has pics of the silver, I'll get some of the blue.

    I'm 6' I used to ride a 19.5" Ironhorse Warrior frame, so I'm hoping the forge will be a little bit smaller in size. the IH was okay, but just a tad too big.
    Ibex bikes

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    2004 Special-Ed P.2 A.1

  72. #72
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    Odd how before the new models everyone bought blue.. now everyone has silver.

    Do you realize no one has ever posted 2006 pics of the silver model?
    WTF

  73. #73
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    Any of you ridden it off road! I'm ordering the matte blue 5xx real soon, I'm so excited! How's the Dart ride for you? Please give me details.... Did you also apply the 10% discount? I googled Target coupons in the past and applied. What did you use? Let me know asap, before I order, thanks!! Going biking, very early morning here, late!

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikefun
    Any of you ridden it off road! I'm ordering the matte blue 5xx real soon, I'm so excited! How's the Dart ride for you? Please give me details.... Did you also apply the 10% discount? I googled Target coupons in the past and applied. What did you use? Let me know asap, before I order, thanks!! Going biking, very early morning here, late!
    It's been 90+ when I get home from work so I haven't really ridden. I also have been tuning and taking it easy breaking everything in. On top of that apparently I'm VERY out of shape.

    The bike feels great to me. Very solid and stable while feeling light and maneuverable. The DART shocks are "soft", but smooth, I'm only about 120lbs and see plenty of movement.

    I'm baby sitting yesterday/today so no trails yet I also don't have a working bike rack or truck to make it to a real trail, but I did run out for a few miles this morning and every time I ride the bike it feels better and better.

    I used the 10% off. TGTSAVQ2 - 10% off. Expires 6/30/07

    The thing to remember is that you CAN return the bike to Target (minus shipping) if you have a problem or don't like it. I felt "safe" in my purchase just because of this.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    The bike feels great to me. Very solid and stable while feeling light and maneuverable. The DART shocks are "soft", but smooth, I'm only about 120lbs and see plenty of movement.

    I'm baby sitting yesterday/today so no trails yet I also don't have a working bike rack or truck to make it to a real trail, but I did run out for a few miles this morning and every time I ride the bike it feels better and better.
    Are you a girl? TAKE PICS TAKE PICS! J/K You're pretty light to be a guy.

    Anyway, you do know that you can adjust the preload on the front fork right? There's a turn knob on top of the left shock that turn clockwise to tighten or counterclockwise to loosen. I had to tighten my preload up because if you leave the fork where it is when it ships it's way too soft. I've taken several bunnyhops and jumps and now my fork only compresses about 2/3 of it's full travel at the most. I also don't have it on full stiff either. I'm about 151lbs so there's no way you're compressing more then me if you've tightened it up some. Anyway, give that a try and see how it works.


    Also, for everyone... someone take a look at your box if you still have it and post the address for Forge Bikes. It's on there, I think it's Ft. Wayne, PA or something like that. I forgot to write it down before I threw out my box.
    Last edited by JRSCCivic98; 05-05-2007 at 09:37 AM.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
    Are you a girl? TAKE PICS TAKE PICS! J/K You're pretty light to be a guy.

    Anyway, you do know that you can adjust the preload on the front fork right? There's a turn knob on top of the left shock that turn clockwise to tighten or counterclockwise to loosen. I had to tighten my preload up because if you leave the fork where it is when it ships it's way too soft. I've taken several bunnyhops and jumps and now my fork only compresses about 2/3 of it's full travel at the most. I also don't have it on full stiff either. I'm about 151lbs so there's no way you're compressing more then me if you've tightened it up some. Anyway, give that a try and see how it works.


    Also, for everyone... someone take a look at your box if you still have it and post the address for Forge Bikes. It's on there, I think it's Ft. Wayne, PA or something like that. I forgot to write it down before I threw out my box.
    Yea Yea... My lifetime high is a whopping 127. I've been about 120 ever since I was 15-16, I'm 27 now (I kick butt in pull up contests). The child is a high school budies that just had a grand parent pass away. They are down state and didn't want to bring the young one.

    I have adjusted the fork, it was just an example if how "soft" it is. Being as light as I am I usually have trouble with items aimed at men that relate to weight in some way (I'm not average).
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  77. #77
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    Dude drink protein milk shakes and mountain bike alot that will get your weight up. That's cool, you will build strength, go for it. Better to be 127 than really heavy. davis, when you buy the blue Forge Sawback 5xx, please post pictures ASAP, I'm about to order one, I hope they don't sellout again, these bikes will probably move quick. Anyone own the Forge 7xx? Late.

  78. #78
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    I will be sure to do that. I just got the email confirming that it has been shipped this morning so I should be getting in within the next few days.

  79. #79
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    This 19" looks like a great bike for me I,m 6 ft and 210 and really do my riding 1 hour at a time at vmax for fitness purposes.

    It looks really similar to the Iron horse 1.3 I saw at Dicks today,is this this a better bike?

    Oh and welcome, I have been a lurker for a few months,this is my first post.

  80. #80
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    This is def. spec'd a lot better.

  81. #81
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    ^^^ Alright.

    I have a $99 dollar Target cheapie now so anything is a improvement lol.

    What makes it better? I,m a newb

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikefun
    Any of you ridden it off road! I'm ordering the matte blue 5xx real soon, I'm so excited! How's the Dart ride for you? Please give me details.... Did you also apply the 10% discount? I googled Target coupons in the past and applied. What did you use? Let me know asap, before I order, thanks!! Going biking, very early morning here, late!
    I did today... a mix of rough hard packed dirt singletrack, mud, sand, down trees, and grass.... It was almost flawless except a missed shift on the front derailer popped the chain and gouged my paint! Luckily I wasn't haulin when it happened! I attribute it to the mud that had been kicked up and had really made a mess... I didn't realize till it was already pretty built up how much mud I had rode through, which probably wasn't too good for the bike

    I can't complain about the bike, it was an enjoyable ride.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikefun
    Any of you ridden it off road! I'm ordering the matte blue 5xx real soon, I'm so excited! How's the Dart ride for you? Please give me details.... Did you also apply the 10% discount? I googled Target coupons in the past and applied. What did you use? Let me know asap, before I order, thanks!! Going biking, very early morning here, late!
    Well I went "off road" for the first time yesterday. The only mistake I made was to read the trail review AFTER I road the trail. Total trip according to my puter was 3 miles.

    Bottom line the bike road/worked GREAT! Shifted easy going up or down, brakes were great, no spills, and as I road the bike it seemed very light and comfy. I have nothing to compare it to but I can't wait to go again.

    The only downside to the Forge is shop support. Before I left I checked everything and my front tire has a wobble in it, and on the front derailer going from 1 to 2 I sometimes have to work it into 2. Not a simple click. I'm sure it's just an adjustment, but had I gotten it locally... (add in your own + or -).

    This was also my girls first trip off road and again read trail reviews BEFORE you go. It was a lot harder than I thought it was going to be but she handled it like a champ. She walked a number of harder areas (Both up and down), and her NEXT didn't have any major issues besides the rear derailer being a pain, and the kickstand (that she loves) almost coming off.
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  84. #84
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    Did anyone buy the blue model? If so please post pictures,,, Thanks.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikefun
    Did anyone buy the blue model? If so please post pictures,,, Thanks.
    I have one... I have been meaning to get pics. I'll try to get them up soon.

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    OK, I know this is the wrong forum for drivetrain questions, but it's my thread and I know you guys will already know what bike and drivetrain I'm talking in reference to so, here goes. Should there be any interference from the front derailer on the chain when I'm at the extreme ends of the rear casette? By this I mean, if I'm on the biggest ring in the front and go to the biggest ring in the back it rubs a little and if I'm on the smallest ring up front and smallest in the back it rubs again. Seems to me that the bike should be able to go into each and every gear with no interference whatsoever. Am I wrong in thinking this? Is there really a limit as to what gears you can use up front in relation to the back? If there is, that's silly because then you can't really call it a 27 speed drivetrain then. Anyway, is this normal or should I consider the drivetrain "out of tune" and take it into the LBS to get it adjusted. BTW, this was the case with it since "day one". Shouldn't it have come preadjusted properly? If it does needs LBS adjustment, should Forge fit the bill for it this one time?

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
    By this I mean, if I'm on the biggest ring in the front and go to the biggest ring in the back it rubs a little and if I'm on the smallest ring up front and smallest in the back it rubs again. Seems to me that the bike should be able to go into each and every gear with no interference whatsoever. ......should Forge fit the bill for it this one time?

    It is common --- I would not worry. And no forge would not be responsible for the bill, you still got the bike at a great deal. Not sure if this happens on mine, but then again, i never do that. I imagine it would

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
    OK, I know this is the wrong forum for drivetrain questions, but it's my thread and I know you guys will already know what bike and drivetrain I'm talking in reference to so, here goes. Should there be any interference from the front derailer on the chain when I'm at the extreme ends of the rear casette? By this I mean, if I'm on the biggest ring in the front and go to the biggest ring in the back it rubs a little and if I'm on the smallest ring up front and smallest in the back it rubs again. Seems to me that the bike should be able to go into each and every gear with no interference whatsoever. Am I wrong in thinking this? Is there really a limit as to what gears you can use up front in relation to the back? If there is, that's silly because then you can't really call it a 27 speed drivetrain then. Anyway, is this normal or should I consider the drivetrain "out of tune" and take it into the LBS to get it adjusted. BTW, this was the case with it since "day one". Shouldn't it have come preadjusted properly? If it does needs LBS adjustment, should Forge fit the bill for it this one time?
    its cross chaining.... normal noise, but you should avoid doing it.

  89. #89
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    Hey jeep thanks man, I really want to buy another one. I have last years Forge Sawback 5xx, which I really like. I figure I would get another, but I want to see the look.

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    Quote Originally Posted by txjohng
    It is common --- I would not worry. And no forge would not be responsible for the bill, you still got the bike at a great deal. Not sure if this happens on mine, but then again, i never do that. I imagine it would
    How is it common and nothing to worry about. I read that you should not let the chain drag on the derailers, especially the front one because it will wear a groove in it and cause shifting issues later on. Regardless of that, it just doesn't seem right. There are obvious design flaws in the geometry if the chain cannot be used on EACH and EVERY gear it has on it. After all, if the distance between the back casette and front crank would be longer this wouldn't be a problem. I just don't see how you can put components together and not have them mesh right. I'm certainly not a bike pro or anything, but this perticular problem just doesn't seem "a normal thing". I'd rather call it a "normal thing due to frame/component limitations". Hell, they should have called it a 20 speed because there's at least 2-3 gears on the back that you can't use when you're on the small or largest ring up front. Just silly if you ask me. I'm going to call them about this tomorrow.

    Oh yeah, how did I get this bike at a great deal? Stating that would mean that I got a Forge 5xx for some kind of discount, which I didn't. Just because Forge puts a good frame/components together and sells it for less then the other guys certainly does not mean "I got a good deal on the bike". I got a very good package for what the bike is, but then again, I think the other guys are asking too much for "a bike" anyway. That's just how I view this. If there's LBSs offering LIFETIME adjustments (worth $70 a pop) on any bike you buy from them should give everyone an idea of how OVERPRICED performance bikes really are in LBS or MSRP prices.

    Anyway, thanks for the info about this so far. Oh yeah, and hurry up jeepinmike with those pics of the blue 07 5xx already...

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    Wow cross chaining is like noobie 101 basics...

    Sure its not NORMAL normal to have sounds, but it will wear your gears out 200 x faster and there is not reason to cross chain because it makes no sense at all.

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    I have the 19"(blue) coming, supposed to arrive on the 15th.

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    I have the same "issue", but as mentioned above it happens on any bike and not a good thing.

    Comparing my GFs Next to the Forge, she has twist shifters that you shift the front derailer as you go up the gears in the back. 1 to 2 on the front shifter is actually like 4 clicks on her bike. This allows her to run the chain in a bad position without much noise. With the Forge the shifter is supposed to be 1 click from 1 to 2, or 2 to 3, etc. (I have issues with 1 to 2).
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Granted it may be noobie101 material here, but I remember never having this issue with my old 10 speed when I was younger. Also, do you consider being on the middle front gear and on the smallest in the back as "cross chaining"? It's rubbing a little on the front derailer in this configuration also. I just don't see how this can be acceptable. I can except maybe the extreme opposite configurations as really pushing the 27speed drivetrain past it's clerence limits, but middle gear up front should allow you to traverse the entire back cassette without issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    I have the same "issue", but as mentioned above it happens on any bike and not a good thing.

    Comparing my GFs Next to the Forge, she has twist shifters that you shift the front derailer as you go up the gears in the back. 1 to 2 on the front shifter is actually like 4 clicks on her bike. This allows her to run the chain in a bad position without much noise. With the Forge the shifter is supposed to be 1 click from 1 to 2, or 2 to 3, etc. (I have issues with 1 to 2).
    Wh yare her bars pointing downward??/ She'll get carpal tunnel or bad wrist pains if you keep them like that... straighten the poor girl's bar out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wickerman1
    Wh yare her bars pointing downward??/ She'll get carpal tunnel or bad wrist pains if you keep them like that... straighten the poor girl's bar out.
    That is a "from Wal-Mart" picture. The bike has been "corrected" since.

    Thanks though....

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
    Granted it may be noobie101 material here, but I remember never having this issue with my old 10 speed when I was younger. Also, do you consider being on the middle front gear and on the smallest in the back as "cross chaining"? It's rubbing a little on the front derailer in this configuration also. I just don't see how this can be acceptable. I can except maybe the extreme opposite configurations as really pushing the 27speed drivetrain past it's clerence limits, but middle gear up front should allow you to traverse the entire back cassette without issues.
    If its on the middle that is just derailler adjustment issues..

    Your previous post said smallest front and smallest back. big no no.

  98. #98
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    Chain Crossing

    You have some points....

    Although it is common with many/most bikes it does point out some type of design flaw. Which I think is very difficult to get around. So yes it is common and you do not want the rub as you will wear things out.

    I do not see any point to use the small ring in the front and crossed with the small ring in the back. And I do not see any point to use the largest ring in the front with the biggest in the back.

    Now the middle gear in the front should be able to get to all the back gears with out a problem. you many need to adjust the limit screws on the front d. to get it from rubbing.

    someone else said they had trouble shifting from 1-2, they need to mess with the barrel adjustment( just a bit, like a 1/5 of a turn) and test it that way

    NOTE: these bikes are usually assembled and tuned at the factory, then unassembled and packed. But they do get shipped thousand of miles and encounter bumps and lots of handling so thing may come out of adjustment.

    As far as getting a good deal you did. Yes you did not get any special discount, but you got a bike a for about 200 less, maybe even 1/2 off , than what an normal lbs would see something comparably equipped for.

    And you point about the lifetime maintenance being 70 a pop...a good point, but most of them only offer adjustments. Meaning, they adjust your brakes and derailures ...something you should learn. Most of them do not break down the bike, take off the cassette or the crank or rebuild the shock for free.

    Speaking of the adjustments, they are EASY. Park Tool has a great site with tons of info, or you could by a book called zinn and the art or mountain bike maintenance.

    I think you are being a bit too picky ... but you do have some points. Why do they call it a 27 speed, if in reality you can only access 23-25 of them?

  99. #99
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    occasionally i will cross the chain without realizing it in the moment but man is it ever a bad idea to run it that way. yes it is a gear and yes it will make the bike move forward, but take a look at your chain line and think about the lateral stress you are subjecting the chain to in that position.

    as for the rubbing, you can always adjust your limit screws so that the derailluer doesnt move quite as far, but you might wind up having issues shifting in or out of the outside gears. as long as its staying in that gear combo, even though i cant repeat enough how bad it is for the chain, and the derailluer shifts the chain from ring to ring smoothly, its in adjustment, even if it rubs a little. hell i get a little rub going "big" big and little little on my bike with an all xt drive train and a bash guard instead of a big ring. its the bike's way of saying "hey dummy quit messin' up my damn chain!"

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    Last edited by jeepinmike; 05-10-2007 at 08:27 AM.

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