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  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by sldonmtns
    I took a week for me to receive my replacement.
    a week after you put in the order to return or a week after the returned bike was recieved by target?

    thanks for the info BTW

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by redvving19
    a week after you put in the order to return or a week after the returned bike was recieved by target?

    thanks for the info BTW
    They shipped my replacement before UPS ever picked up my bike. So, a week after I put the order in.

  3. #403
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    R12 welcome to the Forge Riders! Did you take it off road? If you could, please submit a photo. Last weekend I went on a 30 mile trek, man I'm beat. As always the bike did great. Anyone have any info on 08' Forge models? I sent some suggestions, I actually received a response thanking me. Pretty cool.

  4. #404
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    Does anyone know what size screw the front reflector bracket uses? My Sawback 5xx appears to have arrived in good shape except for a minor scuff I can overlook, but this screw is missing.

    I think it's something metric as a 10-32 felt a little loose, and it looks like it needs to at least be longer than ~ 22mm. Maybe 5mm x 25-30mm (just a guess)?

    Also while I'm thinking about it, IIRC the Rock Shox (or maybe it was the Hayes) documentation mentions we're supposed to use the 22mm, not 18mm long brake bolts, but both the original bolts and the ones that came sealed in a plastic bag were only 18mm. Anyone think that'll be a problem? I didn't until the manual made specific mention of it, then I wondered.

    Also a couple people had mentioned where they were routing the front brake cable. Someone else had pointed out the pair of tabs or studs on the shock crossmember. My bike came with a baggie that had a couple nylon straps, a clear sticker and a double-sided foam sticker, plus a black plastic cable guide piece that has an odd curve on it's back edge which seems to exactly fit the curvature of the shock cross-member.

    What it "looks" like you're supposed to do (and what I did), is put the double-sided foam sticker on the back of that small plastic piece, mount that on top of the cross member right across from the pair of metal studs, put the cable in the plastic piece's channel, then take one of the nylon ties and wrap it around the whole cable-in-piece + cross member so it is retained a bit by those pairs of studs on the cross-member. This routes the cable between the shock and the cross-member but it is not touching the moving portion of the shock.

    I would take a picture but my camera recently broke. Attached is a crude sketch of what I mean.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by _I_; 06-30-2007 at 07:15 PM.

  5. #405
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    don't know about the screws, but you reminded me that the channel piece for the cable that came w/ mine had a sticker on the bag that said Reba (and the name of another RS fork), and didn't fit at all in what seemed like the space for it....did the bag your came in have a sticker that said the same thing, or did it say "Dart"

  6. #406
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    I've since consolidated the bags, but I think that plastic piece came in a Rock Shox labeled bag, [EDIT] it read Reba/PIke on it. [/EDIT]

    I think the picture I attached in the prior post was of a Reba shock and the area on which it mounts looks identical to the Dart. I suspect you aren't putting the plastic piece in the same place I did. Mine (plastic piece) is concave on the back but a greater curve radius in one diagonal direction than the other. If rotated slightly it comes pretty close to matching the curvature of that fork/shock crossmember on the outside top/front/right side (when off the bike standing in front looking, or on the left side if sitting on bike), not on the flat area in the back.

    Maybe your piece isn't the same as mine, I'll find the part # off my bag. I don't think using that plastic piece is critical, so long as the nylon tie isn't cinched so tight that it mashes the cable sheath too much. Attached is scan of bag label
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by _I_; 07-01-2007 at 06:05 PM.

  7. #407
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    Why would you want to use a reflector? The screws for the caliper are fine. Just be careful when you tighten. I normally use a 5mm allan and hand tighten the caliper to the shock. I don't trust torque. The nylon straps are to tighten the brake cable to the shock, which I think you did.

    PS: Nice if they gave you extra stickers! Awesome. I went riding this past weekend, some rally nice drops, man I rather be riding my Sawback today instead of working. Late!

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikefun
    Why would you want to use a reflector?
    80% of the time it'll be on paved roads (sometimes at night, so eventually I'll add a light as well) and the rest trails, but a mountain bike because the shortest path between two points is a straight line, and the state of the local paved roads is pretty bad, as are the drivers requiring off-shoulder routes much of the time. Now I'm just waiting on a tire order but that is a longer and still evolving story. I may take it off-road more than this but this is a replacement for a road bike that was dying, parts breaking practically every time I'd ridden it recently. The road bike was crap though, a cheap quick replacement for a stolen bike.

    The screws for the caliper are fine. Just be careful when you tighten. I normally use a 5mm allan and hand tighten the caliper to the shock. I don't trust torque. The nylon straps are to tighten the brake cable to the shock, which I think you did.
    I thought they were fine too, but the manual was quite specific in stating to use the 22mm not the 18mm bolts... so it made me rethink it.

    PS: Nice if they gave you extra stickers! Awesome. I went riding this past weekend, some rally nice drops, man I rather be riding my Sawback today instead of working. Late!
    Stickers. Hmm, I was thinking of taking them all off mine, except the ones on the frame look permanent. I prefer minimalistic looks to things plus if I ever park it anywhere, the stickers just make it look more valuable to a thief. I'm putting a locking skewer on at least the back, maybe front wheel too so it's less of a hassle chaining it up at a bike rack. Granted everyone won't have the same needs as me but for the slight cost of a skewer it seems worthwhile as I'll never need to quick release both wheels at the same time and it takes about 10 seconds to release a locking skewer which is quick "enough" to me.

  9. #409
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    Hi. I have been looking into mountain bikes after having been exposed to singletrack riding in the last couple of weeks. This thread caught my eye since I'm in the market for an XC bike and I'm a frugal sort.

    The Forge 5xx looks like it could be an outstanding value. But is there a catch? How does the weight compare to a "mainstream" bike like a Specialized Rockhopper for example? Are Forge bikes being considered by the MTB "elite" or are they blown off as high end department store bikes for newbies like myself? Why no reviews in the "Reviews" section?

    Finally, I am likely to ride only XC for fitness/fun purposes, not hardcore downhilling or anything extreme. Traditionally the hardtail has been the best choice but is that true anymore? More and more people are using full suspension bikes for XC. The Forge 7xx is not much more $ than the 5xx. Not as good gearset and probably a little heavier. Any comments (while still keeping the thread on-topic)?

    For reference, I am 6'0" and would be considering the 19" frame.

    Thanks for any input. I'm very excited by this thread and want to learn more ASAP.

    Jon

    PS Is the 10% promotional code available anymore?

  10. #410
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    Ok, The Rockhopper is lighter because it has v-brakes...

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlk_250
    The Forge 5xx looks like it could be an outstanding value. But is there a catch?
    Sure, there's always a catch. You have to either assemble and/or adjust it yourself or pay someone (LBS). I find either option preferable to double-checking everything on a department store bike built in a hurry.

    How does the weight compare to a "mainstream" bike like a Specialized Rockhopper for example? Are Forge bikes being considered by the MTB "elite" or are they blown off as high end department store bikes for newbies like myself? Why no reviews in the "Reviews" section?
    Weight typical for this equipment. Elite pay more, it's the fee to be in the elite club? Not high end department store, Target seems to only handle the selling, maybe warehousing some stock. More like 2 or 3 tiers up from lowest end LBS bike. I have no review up because it'll take months to form a solid opinion. Initial impression is good value, would cost $200+ more to really notice an upgrade. I was hesitant about the Hayes MX2 discs but they stop good (no serious DH time on it yet), seemed easy enough to adjust now time will tell how much readjustment they'll require.

    Finally, I am likely to ride only XC for fitness/fun purposes, not hardcore downhilling or anything extreme. Traditionally the hardtail has been the best choice but is that true anymore?
    Sure, if the area is moderate enough you can hop or make yourself light to get over it, you can get more power out of a hardtail for basic fitness riding.

    More and more people are using full suspension bikes for XC. The Forge 7xx is not much more $ than the 5xx. Not as good gearset and probably a little heavier. Any comments (while still keeping the thread on-topic)?
    Go to a LBS and try a few of each. Generally full suspesion is best for rougher terrain, we can't see where you'll be riding.

    The 19" should fit you fine so long as you don't have unusual proportions.

    PS Is the 10% promotional code available anymore?
    Old code expired, one new code is

    TGTSTM9A - 10% off. Expires 8/10/07

    You can find codes with a Google search or check this fatwallet thread.
    Last edited by _I_; 07-02-2007 at 10:00 PM.

  12. #412
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    Well, I pulled the trigger. Promo code of TGTSTM58 worked for 10% off. Also tried the fatwallet thing but won't know if I get cash back for several weeks. Can't hurt to try. Edit--It appears that $12.67 has been placed in my Fatwallet account so maybe it works!

    Thanks all for the info in this thread. This looks like it'll do the job for me just fine. Now I just have to get a shrader valve adapter and cross my fingers about the shipping.

    Jon
    Last edited by jlk_250; 07-03-2007 at 06:53 AM.

  13. #413
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    Great buy! I'm very happy with my Forge bike. Report back and let us know. Welcome.

  14. #414
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    my replacement bike should be here monday

  15. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by _I_
    Also a couple people had mentioned where they were routing the front brake cable. Someone else had pointed out the pair of tabs or studs on the shock crossmember. My bike came with a baggie that had a couple nylon straps, a clear sticker and a double-sided foam sticker, plus a black plastic cable guide piece that has an odd curve on it's back edge which seems to exactly fit the curvature of the shock cross-member.

    What it "looks" like you're supposed to do (and what I did), is put the double-sided foam sticker on the back of that small plastic piece, mount that on top of the cross member right across from the pair of metal studs, put the cable in the plastic piece's channel, then take one of the nylon ties and wrap it around the whole cable-in-piece + cross member so it is retained a bit by those pairs of studs on the cross-member. This routes the cable between the shock and the cross-member but it is not touching the moving portion of the shock.
    Proper routing of the front brake cable... At least this is what $80 bucks paid for.
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  16. #416
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    Crank and Bottom Bracket

    This was asked a while ago and I'm not sure if it was ever answered but here are pics of the crank (Square) and the bottom bracket.
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  17. #417
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    Weight Chart

    Version 4 of the weight chart. I need to verify the front shock weight and I'll be happy.
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  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    This was asked a while ago and I'm not sure if it was ever answered but here are pics of the crank (Square) and the bottom bracket.
    I was wondering what the story was on those. I am considering buying a Forge and just want to make sure they are as good as they sound like they are. Are they? My other options are Specialized Hardrock Pro Disc, Giant Ranier, Gary Fisher Piranha, or the Forge Sawback 5xx

  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    Version 4 of the weight chart. I need to verify the front shock weight and I'll be happy.
    You weighed all the parts?? Good job!

    seems like the cockpit components contribute a lot to the weight.. look at that 372 g seatpost.

  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by taikuodo
    You weighed all the parts?? Good job!

    seems like the cockpit components contribute a lot to the weight.. look at that 372 g seatpost.
    Absolutely!! (Shifters and Cabling coming soon)

    You can easily shave a lot of weight off the bike. If you are wanting to upgrade something the chart gives you a great idea of how it will affect the weight of the bike.
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  21. #421
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    Could you split up the tires and wheelset? and tubes?

  22. #422
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    wow

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick44685
    I was wondering what the story was on those. I am considering buying a Forge and just want to make sure they are as good as they sound like they are. Are they? My other options are Specialized Hardrock Pro Disc, Giant Ranier, Gary Fisher Piranha, or the Forge Sawback 5xx
    If I were you, I would strongly consider the Giant Rainier.. its a wonderful, ready to race out of the box xc bike. Great components, good reputation.

  23. #423
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    I'm thinking this is the final version unless I'm missing something. I reweighed some pieces and got some different weights than on my previous bikes and updated the chart accordingly. Seems there can easily be 10g-20g difference on some parts.
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  24. #424
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    Are you sure about those tire weights? 919 grams seems unreasonable unless the tires that came with it were extremely low end.

    My kevlar wtb weirwolfs are 550 g and would mean you can save 2 pounds just by changing tires.

  25. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by taikuodo
    Are you sure about those tire weights? 919 grams seems unreasonable unless the tires that came with it were extremely low end.

    My kevlar wtb weirwolfs are 550 g and would mean you can save 2 pounds just by changing tires.
    Front Tire for example..

    2 Zip Ties 3g, Scale was "Torn" then the zip ties used on the tire. I'm still in shock!
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  26. #426
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    Jeez!..
    So the bike could technically just be 30 pounds if you upgraded some tires

  27. #427
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    Thanks for going to all the work of stripping the bike down and weighing it! It'd be interesting to see the same data for other bikes. I've looked and it seems that Jleecong has done a very thorough job and either nobody else is that thorough or nobody else publishes their info. For reference, my old bike is a department store no-suspension cheapie. Weight according to my digital bathroom scale is 41 lbs! I'll be thrilled to death with a 32 lb bike!

    My 5xx Blue is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. Needless to say I'll be home from work early! Gotta say it again, thanks to all for this thread on mtbr.com.

    Jon

  28. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlk_250
    Thanks for going to all the work of stripping the bike down and weighing it! It'd be interesting to see the same data for other bikes. I've looked and it seems that Jleecong has done a very thorough job and either nobody else is that thorough or nobody else publishes their info.
    Thanks Jon!

    I ordered the Spin Doctor Toolkit and just had to use it... Really I like knowing how things work and the best way to learn a bike is by working on it. I also like wrenching and am building up another bike, so I need the experience. I was "on call" this weekend so I got paid to be at the house and work on the bike!

    Since Forge is the new kid on the block there are/were a lot of questions about what they were producing. I was just as interested as the next guy as to what this bike was really made of.

    I agree. I see a lot of "Claimed" weights on bikes and then when you actually weight them you find out why it's a claimed weight (For example (Not to bash Ibex) from what I have read on these forums... Ibex Trophy Comp reported 29lbs (Claim 27lbs), Alpine 650 reported 32lbs (Claim 28lbs)).

    * EDIT *
    I just ran into this, so it would explain the Ibex weight issue...
    The Alpine 650's flew outta here so fast that we never got a chance to throw one up on the scale. There are a few 15" ones left and I'll try to get actual weight on one of those before they're gone too. We'll have to make a little upward adjustment from that actual weight, though, since we try to always publish the weight from a middle size (18" on most models, 17" or 19" on the current Alpines). I suspect it will be pretty darn close to the 28 lb. target weight, if not slightly under.
    Ibex 650 owners: target weight.
    Last edited by jleecong; 07-09-2007 at 05:36 AM.

  29. #429
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    Please remember to post support for our own forum...
    Forge Manufacturer Forum Needed (Gregg)

    Would be nice to split this stuff up into different topics.

  30. #430
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    Where are your sources on those weights for Trophy Comp and Alpine 650?
    It can't add up since all the cockpit components are lighter than Forges, the Manitou Slate is lighter.. etc etc etc.

    confused..

  31. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by taikuodo
    Where are your sources on those weights for Trophy Comp and Alpine 650?
    It can't add up since all the cockpit components are lighter than Forges, the Manitou Slate is lighter.. etc etc etc.

    confused..
    Here on the forums from people who purchased the bike and weighed them on a home scale. I'll do some searching to see if I can support my statement, but as Ibex said they never even weighed the 650 even though they put a target weight.

    I'm guessing target weight implies that x parts should add up to x weight.

  32. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    Here on the forums from people who purchased the bike and weighed them on a home scale. I'll do some searching to see if I can support my statement, but as Ibex said they never even weighed the 650 even though they put a target weight.

    I'm guessing target weight implies that x parts should add up to x weight.
    29lbs Comp Reference
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...76924#poststop

    32lbs 650 Reference (Includes empty waterbottle, pump and tools)
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...16#post1933016

    Both posts are from 06 so they could be referring to last years model (Not sure of the Target weight). I wasn't trying to pick at the real weights for the Ibex bikes (Funny I can't find anything like my chart ), just point out the whole Manufacturer weight vs Real weight thing.

  33. #433
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    Yeah, I know your not trying to be hostile or anything, I was just wanting references.

    The 32 lb remark is with tools, bottle, and pump.. AND its last years model, so that makes sense...

    and the 29 pound comp reference is to ASTA..dual suspension.

    smiles =]

  34. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by taikuodo
    Yeah, I know your not trying to be hostile or anything, I was just wanting references.

    The 32 lb remark is with tools, bottle, and pump.. AND its last years model, so that makes sense...

    and the 29 pound comp reference is to ASTA..dual suspension.

    smiles =]
    And there ya go

    I had a hard time finding any posted weights for the Ibex bikes. Those were just the two I remember reading about months ago (Before I got the Forge). Both were also without pictures and what does "tools" imply.

  35. #435
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    Good job! Returned silver -- ordered blue

    I've been reading here and looking at lbs's for the past couple of months while riding my old Wallyworld mongoose. After not really finding any deals on craigslist or ebay, I ordered the silver. I'm 5' 9.5", 31" inseam. Although I really liked the silver, the seat post was maxed out, and I felt a little cramped. The return to Target was an easy process.

    Still on the fence about purchasing the larger Forge, I started looking at used and the lbs's again. I couldn't find a better used bike for less than $300 unless it was several years old. Maybe I would have had better luck finding a good used bike if I had waited until the fall or winter. I also found that the comparably equipped lbs bikes were in the 5 - 600 range, and only a couple of brands were any lighter than the Forge.

    At one point I thought it might be worth the extra cost if the bike was a couple of pounds lighter. After seeing Jleecong's post about the tires' weight, I ordered the blue this morning. I wanted thank Jleecong for posting the information.

    Another reason I decided to go with the Forge is because I'm 46 and have just started to get into mtb. I can always blame my "cheap Target bicycle" when I have to push it up a hill.

  36. #436
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    Okay, so I'm putting my new 19" together right now. No shipping damage at all that I can tell so far. The first thing that I noticed is that it seems to have a flat or matte finish. I had expected a shiny clear coat finish since clear coat is listed in the specs and the silver 17" pics posted on this thread look very shiny. Should I have expected anything different?

    Edit for future reference. I see right on the box and in the specs that the color is matte blue/silver. The 17" is listed as color silver/blue. So I just didn't have my expectations right. It is a very striking bike and looks quite a bit better than the Sports Authority Iron Horse/Columbia bikes.

    Jon
    Last edited by jlk_250; 07-09-2007 at 07:17 PM.

  37. #437
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    got my replacement bike today and it is a different frame with some different decals

    The damage
    Forge01L.jpg

    Forge02L.jpg


    The changes
    Forge03L.jpg

    Forge04L.jpg

  38. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by redvving19
    got my replacement bike today and it is a different frame with some different decals

    The changes
    Forge03L.jpg

    Forge04L.jpg
    Check the hanger to make sure it's not bent. Good to see they have sold the first batch. I'd like to see some more photos when its put together.

  39. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    Check the hanger to make sure it's not bent. Good to see they have sold the first batch. I'd like to see some more photos when its put together.
    Well Im not sure if its bent or not, going through the gears when its on the largest gear in the back the rear derailer is hopping all over the place

    I hope I dont have to send this one back...........

  40. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlk_250
    Okay, so I'm putting my new 19" together right now. No shipping damage at all that I can tell so far. The first thing that I noticed is that it seems to have a flat or matte finish. I had expected a shiny clear coat finish since clear coat is listed in the specs and the silver 17" pics posted on this thread look very shiny. Should I have expected anything different?

    Jon
    no, it clearly states matte blue on their website

    and btw, Forge needs to either start packing their bikes better or start sending out replacement derailler hangers since I think it would be retarded to keep sending bikes back because of a bent hanger (in which you would be shipped another one with another bent hanger due to poor packaging).

  41. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by taikuodo
    no, it clearly states matte blue on their website

    and btw, Forge needs to either start packing their bikes better or start sending out replacement derailler hangers since I think it would be retarded to keep sending bikes back because of a bent hanger (in which you would be shipped another one with another bent hanger due to poor packaging).
    my first bike had a hole in the same place

  42. #442
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    for all the people interested in the new frame
    Forge05L.jpg

    Forge06L.jpg


    and as you can see the box was punctured by the rear derailer

    Forge07L.jpg

  43. #443
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    Well, I've been out riding my new bike until well past dark. It's a huge upgrade from my old POS bike. The brakes are excellent and the bike feels like a sports car. The fork is on the springy side. It shifts to all 27 gears without noise and may be adjusted correctly but I'm not sure yet since I did get quite a few missed shifts. Can't wait to get it on a trail. I'll bring my bathroom scale with me and will weigh other bikes for comparison. It says the Forge is 32 lbs so it's consistent with Jleecong's measurements. I'm guessing there are a lot more 30-32 lb bikes out there than people let on.

    I wish all the rest of you had good luck like me. My box was 100% undamaged and so was the bike.

    Jon
    Last edited by jlk_250; 07-10-2007 at 05:31 AM.

  44. #444
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    mm looking good on that silver paint there.

  45. #445
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    One more question--I was prepared with a Presta to Schrader adapter. This let me air up the tires with my air compressor but none of my pressure gages work with it. What's the trick?

    Jon

  46. #446
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    get a pump with a pressure gauge built in.

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    Great work. What tires would you use? Last years were IRC, I think the weight was even more..? Nice work.

  48. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    I'm thinking this is the final version unless I'm missing something. I reweighed some pieces and got some different weights than on my previous bikes and updated the chart accordingly. Seems there can easily be 10g-20g difference on some parts.
    Is that the 17 or the 19 (silver or blue)? With so many posts here is getting harder to keep track.

    Thank you, that is an impressive amount of work/results.

  49. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    Front Tire for example..

    2 Zip Ties 3g, Scale was "Torn" then the zip ties used on the tire. I'm still in shock!
    I"m wondering if it's possible that scale is off more the higher the weight, or especially so if the weight isn't perfectly centered/distributed on it. Do you have any way to check calibration on it for large off-center loads?

    Since I don't know what the Krushers are actually supposed (spec'd) to weigh, nor if Kenda's tires are sometimes off-spec, I might be leading you on a wild goose chase.

  50. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlk_250
    One more question--I was prepared with a Presta to Schrader adapter. This let me air up the tires with my air compressor but none of my pressure gages work with it. What's the trick?

    Jon
    Did you try unscrewing the nut on the valve a bit more and screwing the adapter on a bit more?

    Using the typical basic brass presta adapter I was able to read pressure with a cheapo chinese digital handheld gauge (might've gotten it at Sears, or might not (I forget), and the run-of-the-mill chrome plated pencil type.

    None of my pumps have a gauge that's very accurate but for convenience purposes I usually use one of those car jumper starter/inflator/flashlight/invertor all-in-one things. It can't inflate a car tire worth a darn (way too slow) but does fine on a bike.

  51. #451
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    completed bike but I am unable to get it to shift properly so the bike shop is going to look at it
    Forge08L.jpg

    Forge09L.jpg

  52. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by _I_
    Did you try unscrewing the nut on the valve a bit more and screwing the adapter on a bit more?

    Using the typical basic brass presta adapter I was able to read pressure with a cheapo chinese digital handheld gauge (might've gotten it at Sears, or might not (I forget), and the run-of-the-mill chrome plated pencil type.
    That's what I tried. It appears that the adapter is too long because the valve top on the Presta is a good 3/16" below the top of the adapter. In the meantime I realized I can set the regulator on my air compressor to whatever I want. Then I hook up to the Presta valve/adapter and hold it on until it doesn't flow any more air. Not the most accurate method but good enough for now.

    I discovered the first downside of my new bike. The rear brake rotor interferes with the mounting system on our Burly child trailer. No big deal since I have a road bike for trailer pulling duty.

    Jon

  53. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by rimugu
    Is that the 17 or the 19 (silver or blue)? With so many posts here is getting harder to keep track.

    Thank you, that is an impressive amount of work/results.
    17" Silver

  54. #454
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    Here's a little report after getting my blue 5xx out on singletrack for the first time. I'm new to mountain bikes so take it FWIW. In short, I'm very pleased with my purchase. The disc brakes are a pleasure to use and are one of my favorite parts of the bike. Definitely need to adjust the derailers ASAP and replace the seat with something softer. It'd be nice to have the handlebar a little higher although I may be able to make some adjustments and it's pretty close as is. Also I must trim the excess front brake cable. The fork could use more damping IMO but is more than adequate for XC at my level. The smallest chainring is too small for anything I'm likely to tackle. Overall it is a heck of a lot of bike for the money and I'm glad I stumbled across this thread. Looks shouldn't be important but I confess that I appreciate the cosmetics. I even got a comment of "That bike is tight, man." from a punk as I rode by. I think I'd have to spend about $600 if I wanted a comparable name-brand bike from a LBS.

    We need a Forge bikes forum so we don't have to stick to just this one thread. Pipe up if you agree. Forge Manufacturer Forum Needed (Gregg)

    Jon

  55. #455
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    anyone got a working target 10% code???

  56. #456
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    $5 shipping

    fyi...Target.com currently has $5 shipping on bikes.

  57. #457
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    yeah.. i got 10% off and $5 shipping to work one day, but i didnt click the "buy" button cus i was just testing it out.

    Now, there should always be a 10% coupon out, but all the ones i tried dont work.

  58. #458
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    Dang, 19 pages and going! I'm glad everyone is using this thread I started. BTW, that is not a new frame for the Silver 17"... it's the way all of them should have been with the black dropouts. Glad to see the black dropouts have finally made it to market... that basically means that at least 50 17" Silvers have been sold.

  59. #459
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    Some Blue Pics

    Got the 19" yesterday and put it together during the evening. I had picked up some lighter XC forte tires from performance before it arrived. It took a couple hours for assembly, changing tires, and tweaking.

    It feels great, much better than the 17" I had to return, and I couldn't be happier with the purchase.

    The oddest thing happened with the delivery: I was home yesterday afternoon, waiting on the bike. When I checked the UPS website around 3:45, it showed that the bike had been delivered at 2:45. The UPS agent I reached on the phone told me it was delivered at 2:45 and a women had met the driver at the door. I explained that I had been home alone all afternoon and had not received the package. She said she would do whatever... Around 4:00 the UPS drivers shows up, leaves the package at the front door, and takes off. I called UPS back to let them know. Then about 15 minutes later the UPS truck shows up again and the driver told me he was there to pick up a return. I worked for this company many moons ago, so I know what a class act they are (NOT).

    Anyway, here's some pics. I'm taking it for its maiden voyage today.

    UPDATE: UPS came again a minutes ago to pick up the bike for return lol. I had to explain the whole thing over again to a different driver.

    One thing I did notice while riding around the yard yesterday was that the Dart One that came on the bike seems a little noisy. Seems to be a common trait of this fork.
    Last edited by rlouder; 11-03-2010 at 08:26 AM.

  60. #460
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    what do you mean by noisey?

  61. #461
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    Nice ride,,, What's the weight on your new tires? The work Jleecong did with the weight was first class, awesome What's the deal with the toe clips? Were you able to use the existing pedal and add a toe clip? Has anyone gone clipless?

    PS: Try these codes: TCRCPTAA or TCRCPTAB or TCTVTGC2SAVE

  62. #462
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    It makes a little rattling sound over bumps.

  63. #463
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    Thanks! 565g I don't have a scale like Jleecong, but you can tell there's a big difference in weight just by holding each tire. The stock one's are wire rim by the way. Here's the link to the tires, but I picked them up at the retail (price matched to the website of course) http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...tegory_ID=5430. There are only a few reviews of the tires but they are all positive. Time will tell.

    I was able to use my the toe clips off my old wallyworld bike. They are boatranger (sp?) as I had purchased them from a trek place earlier this year. They made a big difference to me. My feet kept slipping off the pedals before I got them. Have to advise though: Many people will tell you to go clipless. I'm not that into it at this point and these were a cheap alternative. One person even told me that they were dangerous. I'm not sure if he was refering to this kind or the type that has straps.

    Gotta go to trails to test this rascal out.

  64. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikefun
    PS: Try these codes: TCRCPTAA or TCRCPTAB or TCTVTGC2SAVE
    None of those work :-(

    EDIT: FOUND ONE!
    TGTAFLAE

    this one works fo sho!

  65. #465
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    Questions about the fork

    Hi Everybody,
    I like the specs on this bike, but I wish the fork were a little nicer. Anybody have any thoughts on that issue?

  66. #466
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    Thoughts after the trails

    Thought I would share my thoughts after riding the trails. They seem to match everyone else's experience. I am a newbe, going from a wallyworld bike to this one, so take that into consideration.

    The little rattle in the fork went away after the first long downhill section.

    Three biggest differences from the old bike:

    Plush ride. The downhills were great and I didn't miss my whole body being jarred to the bone on every little bump. At one point I thought it was a little too plush, but I'm such a newbe that it didn't dawn on me to stiffen the preload until I was on my way home.

    Gear changing. After I got the hang of the shifters, it was smooth sailing. I like being able to catch two gears at once going lower and the derailleurs worked perfectly after I adjusted them yesterday.

    9-Speed. Big improvement over my old 7-speed, which jumped from 24t to the mega 34t. I noticed I was using the second gear a good bit where I would've had to go to first on the old bike.

    Thanks to all who have contributed to the forum!!!

  67. #467
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    Wink 7xx

    Does anybody know the assembled stock weight of the 7xx? And maybe that would be a suggestion to have forge add it to the bike specs on their website. Just a thought.

  68. #468
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    I think its about 31lbs with the reflectors and all that ****
    get to the choppa!!!

  69. #469
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    The Target web site posts shipping weights of:
    Estimated Ship weight: 40.00 pounds for 5xx Mountain Bike - 19"
    and
    Estimated Ship weight: 42.50 pounds for 7xx Mountain Bike - 19.5"

    I see members of this post have physically weighed the 19" 5xx at 32 lbs, so I'd guess 34.5 lbs. for the 7xx?? but that's just guessing using Target's ship weights.....

  70. #470
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    Im thinking of picking up Geax Evolution tires as most of my riding is commuting

  71. #471
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    I finally got around to replacing my front tire today (for something more urban/roadworthy) and drilling out a rim to accept schrader-valved tubes. BEFORE I had drilled anything, I noticed something disturbing.

    There were a lot of little gold-toned metal particles between the rim and the rim strip. For the most part they had not worked their way out of that area to get into the tube (yet?) but it was a bit alarming that they were there at all. Most were fairly tiny but some I think were big enough to do some harm over time. I hope this issue only effects a few bikes instead of all with these WTB rims.

    I carefully examined my tube (which had been holding air just fine) and didn't see any particles embedded in it yet but I know I'm going to be taking the back wheel off now just to inspect it (if I weren't going to do it anyway when I swap that tire).

    The following picture is only of the particles that remained embedded in the strip, some fell off and I wasn't going to try to glue them back on to get a more representative picture , but the larger ones did mostly stay on it. This is the side against the rim, the side against the tire was still clean enough that I hadn't noticed any metal particles yet, only after moving it and seeing them falling out did I inspect the tire-side of the strip.
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    Last edited by _I_; 07-14-2007 at 03:50 AM.

  72. #472
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    Stock Bars

    Does anybody have the diameter of the stock handlebars? 25.4mm or 31.8mm?

  73. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvcta
    Does anybody have the diameter of the stock handlebars? 25.4mm or 31.8mm?
    25.4 they are not OS.

  74. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by _I_
    I finally got around to replacing my front tire today (for something more urban/roadworthy) and drilling out a rim to accept schrader-valved tubes. BEFORE I had drilled anything, I noticed something disturbing.

    There were a lot of little gold-toned metal particles between the rim and the rim strip. For the most part they had not worked their way out of that area to get into the tube (yet?) but it was a bit alarming that they were there at all. Most were fairly tiny but some I think were big enough to do some harm over time. I hope this issue only effects a few bikes instead of all with these WTB rims.

    I carefully examined my tube (which had been holding air just fine) and didn't see any particles embedded in it yet but I know I'm going to be taking the back wheel off now just to inspect it (if I weren't going to do it anyway when I swap that tire).

    The following picture is only of the particles that remained embedded in the strip, some fell off and I wasn't going to try to glue them back on to get a more representative picture , but the larger ones did mostly stay on it. This is the side against the rim, the side against the tire was still clean enough that I hadn't noticed any metal particles yet, only after moving it and seeing them falling out did I inspect the tire-side of the strip.
    Did you remove the rim tape that protects the tube from the spoke heads?

    I noticed nothing like your picture when replacing my tubes/tires.
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  75. #475
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    wow 480g tires, so your bike is officially 860 grams lighter! it must be 29.65 or something.

  76. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by taikuodo
    wow 480g tires, so your bike is officially 860 grams lighter! it must be 29.65 or something.
    Actual weight is 442g and 444g. I also went with some ultralight tubes coming in at 125g and 127g.
    http://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...Lite+Tire.aspx $19 each

    I went for a quick ride earlier and all I can say is WOW!

  77. #477
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    about 480 x 2 = 960 grams saved in tires, and 100 grams in tubes
    dropping 1160 grams

    = 2.5 pounds!

    and all in rotational weight too.

    so.. closer to 29.2

    sounds great!

  78. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    Did you remove the rim tape that protects the tube from the spoke heads?

    I noticed nothing like your picture when replacing my tubes/tires.
    Yes, the picture is of the rim strip or tape, it was removed. I probably wouldn't have noticed those metal particles if I had not pulled up the rim strip to see under it.

  79. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by _I_
    Yes, the picture is of the rim strip or tape, it was removed. I probably wouldn't have noticed those metal particles if I had not pulled up the rim strip to see under it.
    Why use a rim tape?
    The rim tape protects the tube from mechanical damage by spoke ends, metal burrs and holes in the rim.

    http://www.schwalbe.de/gbl/en/tech_i...ESSID=48836eb2

  80. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    Why use a rim tape?
    The rim tape protects the tube from mechanical damage by spoke ends, metal burrs and holes in the rim.

    http://www.schwalbe.de/gbl/en/tech_i...ESSID=48836eb2
    You are misunderstanding.

    - The rim strip or liner (you're calling tape, but this is not an adhesive tape it's just a liner) was removed because I was going to (but hadn't yet) drill out the valve stem hole.

    - Before I had drilled anything the rim liner was removed, so it would not catch on the drill bit and so cleanup of metal particles would be much easier, so none would be stuck inside the double-walled rim.

    - I had not drilled anything yet and when I took the liner off a lot of metal particles were exposed.

    - I did not leave the liner off, it was only temporarily removed for drilling, then put back on the rim after that was finished, and after I had cleaned all the metalic particles off that were as seen in the picture. Once it was all clean the liner was reinstalled before the tire & tube were mounted.

    The only problem is that my bike wheel(s), as shipped to me, had a lot of metal particles between the rim and rim liner which could later result in tube failure.
    Last edited by _I_; 07-14-2007 at 12:45 PM.

  81. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by _I_
    You are misunderstanding.

    - The rim strip or liner (you're calling tape, but this is not an adhesive tape it's just a liner) was removed because I was going to (but hadn't yet) drill out the valve stem hole.

    - Before I had drilled anything the rim liner was removed, so it would not catch on the drill bit and so cleanup of metal particles would be much easier, so none would be stuck inside the double-walled rim.

    - I had not drilled anything yet and when I took the liner off a lot of metal particles were exposed.

    - I did not leave the liner off, it was only temporarily removed for drilling, then put back on the rim after that was finished, and after I had cleaned all the metalic particles off that were as seen in the picture. Once it was all clean the liner was reinstalled before the tire & tube were mounted.

    The only problem is that my bike wheel(s), as shipped to me, had a lot of metal particles between the rim and rim liner which could later result in tube failure.
    I think I understand you perfectly and understand what you did.

    The rim liner (or tape or strip) is what protects the tube from spoke ends, metal burrs and holes in the rim.

    Thats what turned up in a search for Rim Tape/Liner/Strip. So as you have pointed out Rim Tape/Strips/Liner is a GREAT thing and aparently working well on the Forge bikes.

    If I'm mistaken please show me what you are referring to on Parktools website...
    http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=100

    This is what I'm talking about...
    Rim Strip and Rim Cavity

    The wheel rim is made with holes between the rim sidewalls for spoke nipples. A rim strip covers the holes or nipples. The rim strip can be made out of different materials such as cloth, rubber, or polyurethane plastic. The strip protects the inner tube from sharp edges in the base of the rim and from spoke ends and nipples that might puncture the tube.

  82. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    I think I understand you perfectly and understand what you did.

    The rim liner (or tape or strip) is what protects the tube from spoke ends, metal burrs and holes in the rim.

    Thats what turned up in a search for Rim Tape/Liner/Strip. So as you have pointed out Rim Tape/Strips/Liner is a GREAT thing and aparently working well on the Forge bikes.
    I think we all know what a rim liner is and what it's function is.

    I would say the liner in these WTB rims isn't particularly good OR bad, just normal/typical rim liner.

    The central issue is still that this is a manufacturing defect to have loose metal particles in the wheel, and it is likely to be present in more bikes than just mine. IF it is present in other people's rims, it may cause tube failure. Anyone who has not removed their rim liner to see if there are all these loose metal particles behind it, may not realize they are there (if they are).

    To change a tire when it's new and not see any particles is no assurance that any hidden under the rim liner won't work their way out to the tube over time.

    To be frank, I can't now advise anyone to buy this bike unless they are willing to remove their rim liner and check for this. Maybe the manufacturing has improved and only a few bikes have this problem, but it is no consolation for someone effected. I would return the bike for this reason if it weren't more work than dismounting the tires & tubes (and that I was doing it anyway to mount different tires).

    To be fair to Forge and WTB, I don't have a large enough sample size to reach this conclusion about either the 17 or 19" bikes in general BUT if I am the only one who has removed their rim liner (which would enable seeing the problem), then so far 100% of the bike(s) checked, have the problem.
    Last edited by _I_; 07-14-2007 at 01:51 PM.

  83. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by _I_
    I think we all know what a rim liner is and what it's function is.

    I would say the liner in these WTB rims isn't particularly good OR bad, just normal/typical rim liner.

    The central issue is still that this is a manufacturing defect to have loose metal particles in the wheel, and it is likely to be present in more bikes than just mine. IF it is present in other people's rims, it may cause tube failure. Anyone who has not removed their rim liner to see if there are all these loose metal particles behind it, may not realize they are there (if they are).

    To change a tire when it's new and not see any particles is no assurance that any hidden under the rim liner won't work their way out to the tube over time.

    To be frank, I can't now advise anyone to buy this bike unless they are willing to remove their rim liner and check for this. Maybe the manufacturing has improved and only a few bikes have this problem, but it is no consolation for someone effected. I would return the bike for this reason if it weren't more work than dismounting the tires & tubes (and that I was doing it anyway to mount different tires).
    * EDIT *
    Maybe a better picture, because I don't think I'm seeing what you are seeing.

    If it is a big issue for you I would contact Forge.

  84. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    OK I think you are not understanding what I'm saying.

    The purpose of the Rim Liner/Tape/Strip is to protect the tube against spoke ends, metal burrs and holes in the rim.
    I know what a rim liner's purpose is, why do you keep repeating the obvious?

    A rim liner does not make it acceptable for there to be loose metal shavings in a wheel!

    I'm thinking you found all 3. No manufacturer defect as far as I can tell. Thats what the rim tape/liner/strip is made for.
    It is unquestionably a manufacturing defect. Since the remedy is easy, and a tube is inexpensive, and IF the tube failed it would probably be through a slow leak instead of fast collapse, I consider it only a minor defect.

    * EDIT *
    Maybe a better picture, because I don't think I'm seeing what you are seeing.
    The picture is fine to see the problem (at least the few metal particles that remained stuck to the liner).

    The liner is black, the metal is silvery-gold colored.
    Last edited by _I_; 07-14-2007 at 02:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _I_
    I know what a rim liner's purpose is, why do you keep repeating the obvious?

    A rim liner does not make it acceptible for there to be loose metal shavings in a wheel!



    It is unquestionably a manufacturing defect.



    The picture is fine to see the problem (at least the few metal particles that remained stuck to the liner).

    The liner is black, the metal is silvery-gold colored.
    Where there are little brass looking metal particles is by the spoke hole impressions (A pattern). The rim is silver metal not gold from the scratches I have seen. I'm assuming when you true/tighten a wheel some off the nipple "flakes" off. A burr when loosened also becomes a metal shaving. I’m sure you have removed enough screws on the bike to notice how on the first tighten there can be some metal flakes.

    I guess I find it a little crazy that with nothing wrong you are ready to return the bike. Personally I would call a bike mechanic or Forge before I go saying anything about a manufacturer defect. (We already went down this road with the FD)

    Bottom line I guess it's an issue for you. Doesn't bother me as I use rim tape.
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  86. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    Where there are little brass looking metal particles is by the spoke hole impressions (A pattern). The rim is silver metal not gold from the scratches I have seen. I'm assuming when you true/tighten a wheel some off the nipple "flakes" off. A burr when loosened also becomes a metal shaving. Iím sure you have removed enough screws on the bike to notice how on the first tighten there can be some metal flakes.

    I guess I find it a little crazy that with nothing wrong you are ready to return the bike. Personally I would call a bike mechanic or Forge before I go saying anything about a manufacturer defect. (We already went down this road with the FD)

    Bottom line I guess it's an issue for you. Doesn't bother me as I use rim tape.
    It doesn't really matter where the metal particles came from, only that they are there in the wheel.

    No, I don't notice large metal flakes when I turn screws.

    There is nothing crazy about not wanting loose metal particles in a tubed tire. You have to be kidding.

    Why should anyone call and pay a bike mechanic to fix something, that shouldn't be present in the first place?

    Why would you think that anything Forge has to say, changes whether this is a defect (it does not).

    Your motives are suspicious at best. I merely reported what I observed because I think other people do want to know there may be loose metal shavings in their wheels. If you don't care, don't do anything about it - It's as simple as that.

    If this were some kind of problem that was more likely to be isolated, like a paint flaw or shipping damage, I would not have mentioned it. Actually I had no intention to write as much about it as I have but you clearly have no idea about bike fitness if you think it's ok to have loose metal shavings in a wheel, nor about manufacturer process if you think skipping the step to clean it before assembly is likely to only happen one time. More likely is that several wheels made at same time all have this problem.

    I still consider the bike a good value even if one has to pull the rim strip, and maybe someone would rather just leave it alone until they have a tube leaking, but this is a fact on my bike and it does nothing useful to hide potential issues instead of accepting them for what they are.

  87. #487
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    Ok, they build wheels with machines, its perfectly understandable that there might be metal shavings inside the wheel since its screwing in the nipple into the spoke since the machine goes "whirrr" and builds a wheel.

    And jleecong is just saying that, durh, the rim strip protects from anything that could possibly happen. Thats why they put a rim strip in there

  88. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by _I_
    It doesn't really matter where the metal particles came from, only that they are there in the wheel.

    No, I don't notice large metal flakes when I turn screws.

    There is nothing crazy about not wanting loose metal particles in a tubed tire. You have to be kidding.

    Why should anyone call and pay a bike mechanic to fix something, that shouldn't be present in the first place?

    Why would you think that anything Forge has to say, changes whether this is a defect (it does not).

    Your motives are suspicious at best. I merely reported what I observed because I think other people do want to know there may be loose metal shavings in their wheels. If you don't care, don't do anything about it - It's as simple as that.

    If this were some kind of problem that was more likely to be isolated, like a paint flaw or shipping damage, I would not have mentioned it. Actually I had no intention to write as much about it as I have but you clearly have no idea about bike fitness if you think it's ok to have loose metal shavings in a wheel, nor about manufacturer process if you think skipping the step to clean it before assembly is likely to only happen one time. More likely is that several wheels made at same time all have this problem.

    I still consider the bike a good value even if one has to pull the rim strip, and maybe someone would rather just leave it alone until they have a tube leaking, but this is a fact on my bike and it does nothing useful to hide potential issues instead of accepting them for what they are.
    Well I think it's clear we think very differently...

    Here I say "call a mechanic" and you reply with "pay a bike mechanic". Best of luck!

  89. #489
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    The point is the metal flakes should be removed completely instead of just bandaging the problem with rim strip..

    It seems like jlee's mentality is just to bandage the problem and not fix it. thats how I'm reading it IMHO.

    In conclusion _I_ is right, metal flakes should not be in the wheel lol.

    btw jlee, large metal flakes come off of your bike when you tighten bolts?
    get to the choppa!!!

  90. #490
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    I don't disagree that in the manufacturing and assembly of a wheel, there may be small metal particles produced. Next step in the process is to remove these particles, before fitting the rim liner, tube and tire.

    You write as if the problem should be shifted to being an addt'l expense for the customer, but what do you want to bet that if you started a new Mtbr thread asking, "Is it ok to have loose metal shavings in my new bike wheels", the majority would not only find it a problem, but would want to know if their new bike had such a problem. That's what I did, told you so now you know. Do whatever you want with the info.

    jleecong, no offense but I was not looking for advice, I was informing of a known problem with my bike and that it is likely others also have metal shavings in their wheels.

  91. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiffycake
    The point is the metal flakes should be removed completely instead of just bandaging the problem with rim strip..

    It seems like jlee's mentality is just to bandage the problem and not fix it. thats how I'm reading it IMHO.

    In conclusion _I_ is right, metal flakes should not be in the wheel lol.

    btw jlee, large metal flakes come off of your bike when you tighten bolts?
    This assumes all rims have metal flakes. It could be a defective wheel, it could be "within standards" as my LBS likes to say.

    My mentality is that they created rim tape for a reason. Like some metal particles being left in the rim. To you maybe rim tape is just "bandaging the problem"... spoke heads, holes, thin/light tubes, etc. What were they thinking....

    In a perfect world I agree. Hand built wheels are a good thing and cost more for a reason.

    When tightening a virgin screw or removing some screws on both my Forge and Leader frame you get small metal flakes/powder. I asked for another picture as just like the pictures I posted something very small can look very big.

    I would invite anyone to remove the rim tape and check if they wish. If I have a flat I may check it out, but at this time no one has had a problem so it makes me think it's not an issue.

  92. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by _I_
    jleecong, no offense but I was not looking for advice, I was informing of a known problem with my bike and that it is likely others also have metal shavings in their wheels.
    Well then I agree if you know for a fact that it's a manufacturer defect.

    I thought you were speculating..
    "some I think were big enough to do some harm over time"
    "all with these WTB rims"

    Since I have had 4 bikes I also know I have had unique issues/problems with each. I found a number of metal particles when I took the bike apart to weigh it. I also found one screw that had NO grease while it's twin did.

    Bottom line (again) I agree with your point of view that "metal flakes bad", if they are present best to remove them. As I said I notice no sign of them and haven't had any poblems or read on here of any problems. One would think that companies do have to cut corners sometimes to sell at the prices they do....

    But Bob we have to clean the rims after we build them.. Hog Wash the rim tape will take care of it.
    Last edited by jleecong; 07-14-2007 at 03:36 PM.

  93. #493
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    Since it needed to be verified...

    Source is burrs falling loose from the nipples. I counted maybe 10 specs over the entire wheel, but could see burrs on the screw heads still. I'm still going with this is why we have rim tape and one of the reasons why hand built wheels are better.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  94. #494
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    I didn't notice any shavings when I changed my tires, but I only pulled the tape back a little in one place to see what the rim looked like inside. I bought a couple of lite tubes when I purchased my tires and put one of the lites on the front, leaving the standard on the rear because I thought the rear would get more abuse with no shock. So I have extra available for such emergency.

    The shavings shouldn't be there, but I'm guessing that if others find them, it's likely a problem on new bikes in general and not just limited to Forge bikes. From what I understand, all bikes in this price range are assembled overseas. I think lbs's get their bikes in the same stage of assembly as ours, and I doubt very seriously if they take their tires off to inspect for shavings...

    Thanks for posting about the shavings. It's definitely something to check out if I have problems.

  95. #495
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    I have since removed, disassembled, and changed the rear tire now.

    It does not have as many metal shavings as the front did. YMMV.
    I paid a lot more attention this time to cause. It seems one of three things is happening in the manufacturing process:

    1) The spokes are at least a couple millimeters too long, so tightening them down puts the end of the spoke past the clearance for the nut.

    2) The machine (or person) tightening the spokes is using a screwdriver bit too worn, it has rounded edges and cannot maintain torque without slipping out of the slot and destroying the spoke screw head.

    3) The machine (or person) tightening the spokes does not apply enough pressure, and the bit skips out of the slot after a certain torque. Ultimately the nut head is destroyed, only a brass mutated piece remains.

    While these all might be avoidable errors, the fact remains that it doesn't really matter WHY there are metal shavings in the rim, they should have been cleaned out before the rim strip, tube or tire were ever installed.


    What I mean is after examining the rear wheel, it seems that these metal particles are from the spoke nuts, that the process to tighten them is failing to do so, before it shears off the heads on a large % of some of the spoke nuts. They do appear to be nickel plated brass, which would account for the gold-toned color of the metal shavings I saw, and after checking each in turn, some were damaged by a lack of proper manufacturing issues as mentioned above.

    If brass were sofer than an air tube it would not matter. It isn't though, so these stray particules do post a risk to the tube. Even in the brief time I have owned the bike, they had already moved from the holes to near the edge of the rim liner. You can decide for yourself the risk, but personally I did not want to wait till these particles worked their way to the tube so I scrubbed and picked out remaining particles from the rim strip and wiped the rim before reinstalling the liner, tube and tire.

    IF I had it all to do all over again, I would still have bought this bike, providing other owners were sharing their experiences with the potential issues involved. Peer support is extremely valuable, I have only attempted to provide yet one more point of info about this bike - no bike is perfect.
    Last edited by _I_; 07-14-2007 at 10:34 PM.

  96. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by _I_
    I have since removed, disassembled, and changed the rear tire now.

    It does not have as many metal shavings as the front did. YMMV.
    I paid a lot more attention this time to cause. It seems one of three things is happening in the manufacturing process:

    1) The spokes are at least a couple millimeters too long, so tightening them down puts the end of the spoke past the clearance for the nut.

    2) The machine (or person) tightening the spokes is using a screwdriver bit too worn, it has rounded edges and cannot maintain torque without slipping out of the slot and destroying the spoke screw head.

    3) The machine (or person) tightening the spokes does not apply enough pressure, and the bit skips out of the slot after a certain torque. Ultimately the nut head is destroyed, only a brass mutated piece remains.

    While these all might be avoidable errors, the fact remains that it doesn't really matter WHY there are metal shavings in the rim, they should have been cleaned out before the rim strip, tube or tire were ever installed.


    What I mean is after examining the rear wheel, it seems that these metal particles are from the spoke nuts, that the process to tighten them is failing to do so, before it shears off the heads on a large % of some of the spoke nuts. They do appear to be nickel plated brass, which would account for the gold-toned color of the metal shavings I saw, and after checking each in turn, some were damaged by a lack of proper manufacturing issues as mentioned above.

    If brass were sofer than an air tube it would not matter. It isn't though, so these stray particules do post a risk to the tube. Even in the brief time I have owned the bike, they had already moved from the holes to near the edge of the rim liner. You can decide for yourself the risk, but personally I did not want to wait till these particles worked their way to the tube so I scrubbed and picked out remaining particles from the rim strip and wiped the rim before reinstalling the liner, tube and tire.

    IF I had it all to do all over again, I would still have bought this bike, providing other owners were sharing their experiences with the potential issues involved. Peer support is extremely valuable, I have only attempted to provide yet one more point of info about this bike - no bike is perfect.
    Those are some great opinions. How about some stuff to back up your claims other than your opinion.

    How many wheel sets have you built?
    How long have you been a bike mechanic?

    1) Check why we use Rim Tape/Strips/Liner

    2 & 3) For stripped nipples you may use locking pliers. Just make sure the pliers are holding the nipple tight.
    As a matter of fact, I always use locking pliers to true wheels, not just for stripped nipples. So far, so good - it takes longer, but works for nipples of lower quality, without risk to strip them.
    Spoke nipple issues

    The flakes should be cleaned but that doesn't help the burrs that fall loose after the wheel is sealed up. That is why they have rim tape.

    I'll leave you with yet another link...
    Rim Strips

    Inner tubes when inflated at modest to high pressure, will sometimes expand and balloon into the larger spoke hole in the rims cross-tie wall. If the drilling of the spoke holes has left a burr around the spoke hole, or if spoke itself is a little long after wheel truing there is the likelihood that these conditions will puncture the underside of the inner tube. Shortening an installed spoke is difficult, de-burring each hole maybe time consuming, so the industry has adopted the use of rimstrips. Rimstrips are made of flat cloth, fabric or rubber, joined at the ends to make a circular strip that fits tightly around the rim closing off the spoke holes.
    http://www.bikepro.com/products/rims/strips.html

    Lastly I called Mike (Forge) this morning and spoke with him about your issue. He said that the purpose of the rim tape is exactly that to protect it from loose burrs, spoke heads, etc. He also pointed out the fact that WTB makes the rim and not them so it would affect ALL WTB rims. Mike suggest a call to WTB or to Forge if you have an issue. (Not pay them for anything just a call)

    Enjoy the rest of the weekend!

  97. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    Those are some great opinions. How about some stuff to back up your claims other than your opinion.

    How many wheel sets have you built?
    How long have you been a bike mechanic?

    1) Check why we use Rim Tape/Strips/Liner

    2 & 3) For stripped nipples you may use locking pliers. Just make sure the pliers are holding the nipple tight.
    As a matter of fact, I always use locking pliers to true wheels, not just for stripped nipples. So far, so good - it takes longer, but works for nipples of lower quality, without risk to strip them.
    Spoke nipple issues

    The flakes should be cleaned but that doesn't help the burrs that fall loose after the wheel is sealed up. That is why they have rim tape.

    I'll leave you with yet another link...
    Rim Strips

    Inner tubes when inflated at modest to high pressure, will sometimes expand and balloon into the larger spoke hole in the rims cross-tie wall. If the drilling of the spoke holes has left a burr around the spoke hole, or if spoke itself is a little long after wheel truing there is the likelihood that these conditions will puncture the underside of the inner tube. Shortening an installed spoke is difficult, de-burring each hole maybe time consuming, so the industry has adopted the use of rimstrips. Rimstrips are made of flat cloth, fabric or rubber, joined at the ends to make a circular strip that fits tightly around the rim closing off the spoke holes.
    http://www.bikepro.com/products/rims/strips.html

    Lastly I called Mike (Forge) this morning and spoke with him about your issue. He said that the purpose of the rim tape is exactly that to protect it from loose burrs, spoke heads, etc. He also pointed out the fact that WTB makes the rim and not them so it would affect ALL WTB rims. Mike suggest a call to WTB or to Forge if you have an issue. (Not pay them for anything just a call)

    Enjoy the rest of the weekend!
    I agree 100%. BTW I saw another Forge on Ebay yesterday. It was another returned bike - 17" Silver. It went for $202.50 plus shipping. The only bid was $69 until the last 10 minutes when 8 more bids went through. The second bid jumped the price from $69 to $150. I have never bid on Ebay so maybe that's the norm but bidding more than double the previous bid seems strange.

  98. #498
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    Yeah, that's the norm on ebay. I kept looking on there for a recent model used bike before buying the forge and noticed the pattern. There's no use to even look at the prices until the last five minutes.

    Just guessing, but I imagine someone would buy it at that price just for the components.

  99. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by jleecong
    Those are some great opinions. How about some stuff to back up your claims other than your opinion.
    Actually they're quite the opposite of opinion, fact because I am using collection of data (have proof of the particles, have seen the nut heads damaged, do know when that would happen).

    Why are you resisting plain truth? A rim liner does nothing to protect the tube from LOOSE METAL particles, it's purpose is to protect against the surface irregularities that are fixed parts of the rim, and to keep the tube from expanding into the spoke holes or rubbing against spoke nuts.

    A rim liner can't protect against particles that do not stay under it. The particles had already been moving towards the edges.

    The flakes should be cleaned but that doesn't help the burrs that fall loose after the wheel is sealed up. That is why they have rim tape.
    These are not burrs falling loose later, it is very clear what is happening as described in my last post and that the loose debris is present before the liner, tube and tire are installed.

    I'm terribly sorry you don't agree but I am 100% sure of this, and remember I am looking at the wheel the whole time, this isn't just a random theory but rather backed by direct evidence.
    Last edited by _I_; 07-15-2007 at 06:09 PM.

  100. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19cal91
    Hi Everybody,
    I like the specs on this bike, but I wish the fork were a little nicer. Anybody have any thoughts on that issue?
    This was actually one of my suggestions to Mike. While I doubt it will make it to 08 I suggested a "1 up" model with an upgraded fork and a few other goodies and raise the price some.

    You could always get the bike and get a gently used upgraded fork off eBay. Anything sub $500 or so is going to have a pretty entry level fork. (There are exceptions and specials/clearances though)

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