Results 1 to 35 of 35
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    8

    Figuring Out Why I Crashed!

    This might be an odd topic, but any input might help in my decision about a bike. I've recently returned to riding after being away for many years, and like the Iceman, have discovered many changes. I'm riding my old Rocky Mountain Element 26, mostly in Annadel State Park here in Northern California. It has plenty of climbing and flow trails, but also some fairly rocky, technical stuff. I'm pretty under biked as it is now, and am looking at a few new bikes. Because of our location, Santa Cruz is prominent here (Tallboys, 5010s, Bronsons, and Hightowers), as is Specialized (Stumpys, Enduros, a few Cambers).

    I demoed my first bike a couple of weeks ago, a carbon Tallboy. We started the ride with our usual climbs, about 1500 feet of technical and smooth single track. I absolutely loved the way it climbed, and as advertised, the big wheels rolled up over everything. I'd never experienced a bike that climbs and rolls that fast.

    However, coming down, it took some adjusting to a bike with much bigger wheels, stiffer frame, and wider handlebars. I was just getting in the groove, and it was feeling good, when I encountered trouble! Rolling pretty fast through a not particularly steep downhill, I was going through a left handed sweeper, and drifted up to the top (outside) of the groove. I fed in some input to correct and get back down in the groove, when the front wheel washed down into it, the bars crossed left, and I high sided onto a very hard boulder, doing pretty serious damage to my knee. I'm out for a couple of months, but trying to assess what I did wrong, and if I should chalk it up to an unfortunate series of events, or whether I should consider what happened in choosing my bike.

    This leads me to my question. I'd classify myself as a fairly novice rider, but we do ride some mildly challenging stuff, and while I'm no speed demon, my skills aren't bad.

    Is there anything about the geometry and riding position of the Tallboy that would lend itself to this happening? It seems like the bike responded in a way that my old Rocky Mountain never did. Could it be the higher riding position, stiffer frame, wider bars, or a combination of the three? It does seem like the Tallboy had me in a position that was higher and more forward than I'm used to, and when the front washed out, I was over the top before I knew what hit me.

    Are there other bikes in this class (call it 120 to 150 mm) that might have been more forgiving of a novice in this situation, by virtue of wheelbase, geometry, or suspension? Other bikes I've looked at (but not ridden on the trail) are the Stumpy, Transition, and Commencal Meta TR).

    Also, might opt for 27.5 over 29 just to make a little less leap into the unknown from the 26. The 29 did feel a little awkward with the combination of much more speed, and slower turning than I'm used to.

    Any help greatly appreciated!

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    86
    Rider error.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,564
    Sounds to me the combination of speed and steering input exceeded the available traction. I'll add that I've crashed 26ers and 29ers, but never a 27.5.
    Do the math.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: s0ckeyeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,674
    It's most definitely a technique issue. You probably didn't lean the bike enough. As a novice rider, these types of things are bound to happen. I wouldn't be inclined to blame the bike for anything at this point.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MSU Alum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,174
    Here's hoping your recovery goes well.
    I can't think of anything about the Tallboy that would have caused that to happen.
    When I was looking for a new bike a couple of years ago, I demo'd several 29ers. I didn't really care for them for what and where I ride, but I didn't find them to be particularly slow steering or high centered. I ended up with a 27.5. I think that just falls into the "stuff happens" category.

  6. #6
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    7,231
    Heal up!
    If you haven't been riding in a while, or are used to an older bike with different geometry, most likely you were just going too fast or over/under corrected. I know it takes me a handful of rides to get really comfy when swapping bikes. I just had my first wreck of the season yesterday, second ride on the new build.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Joules's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,001
    your crash was caused by lack of skill. Same as all crashes. You don't honestly think it was anything else, do you?

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    8
    Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Very helpful.

    And Joules, if my post didn't clearly convey it, I'm fully aware that my mismanagement of the bike was the primary cause of the crash, in part by my lack of experience on it.

    I also race cars, where my skill level is much higher. There are certain cars that are more tightly wound, and designed to be operated more on a fine edge. These cars will perform at a higher level when driven correctly by a skilled driver, but can often be less forgiving of input errors, and are more prone to crash when mishandled. I was mostly curious whether that also might hold true with certain bikes? If I knew the answer, I wouldn't have asked the question.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JoePAz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    3,597
    From the description it appears you had simple front end wash out. Really hard to know exactly why other than rider error. I will say that with newer bikes and long slack trend you may need to focus on putting more weight on the front tire as compared to older 26er. Older bikes tend to be more XC geometry and naturally had more weight on the front wheel. Newer bikes are pulling that weight back, but in fast cornering you have put little more focus on getting weight on the front.

    The tallboy is more of an XC bike vs some of the more slack bikes, but it does need to be more slack and longer than bikes years ago. In cases like this the small change can be enough to cause a washout.
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5",Vassago Verhauen SS 29" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JoePAz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    3,597
    Quote Originally Posted by Stolky View Post
    I also race cars, where my skill level is much higher. .
    I used to race cars too and to being the analogy home I would say that at the limit the handling will change. When I first move from 26 to 29 it felt diffenet and I had adjust my body position to balance front/rear grip. So the "new race" cars handle different. You do need to change your input to adjust for them. Not like changing from RWD to FWD, but the balance is slightly changed. If you are at the limit you know that subtle input will make the difference between crashing and not. Then again there is also just simple driver/rider error that can be down to tires, tire pressure or track/trail conditions. I can't really go deeper in because alot has to do with the current setup and what you are used to. I have driven on a track "identical cars" (Spec series) and they felt very different. Not because of any real change in the cars, but down to adjustable set-up.
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5",Vassago Verhauen SS 29" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    8
    Joe,

    When I replay the event in my head, your theory that I didn't have enough weight on the front totally rings true. I kept thinking that my Element had never done that. Going downhill, I have to stay back much further on it, because of the short, steep geometry. Sounds like a positioning adjustment I'm going to have to make no matter what modern bike I get.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: huckleberry hound's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    421
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Sounds to me the combination of speed and steering input exceeded the available traction. I'll add that I've crashed 26ers and 29ers, but never a 27.5.
    Me too but then again I have never ridden one either.

    I hope your healing is speedy OP and that the injury doesn't cause you to shy away from riding. It is an incredible and rewarding sport.
    Change begins by doing something different.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by huckleberry hound View Post
    I hope your healing is speedy OP and that the injury doesn't cause you to shy away from riding. It is an incredible and rewarding sport.
    Thanks for the well wishes. No way one little crash will keep me away. Can't wait to get back out there, only about 6 more weeks, maybe sooner. Knee is healing fast, feels good.

  14. #14
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    22,032
    I'll chime in and ask, what tyres were on the TB, regular 29ers or B+? If they were 29ers, was it an Ardent on the front? If so, I'll go against rider error and tell you that tyre absolutely fvcking sucks and has put down more than it's fair share of riders exactly as it did you. If they had om something else, like Minions, then most likely it was your not being accustomed to the new geo and wide bar/short stem setup, and maybe over corrected and caused the front to wash.

    As to whether 650B or 29er for you, only you can figure that one out. Sounds like you live someplace where finding demos isn't a problem, so go demo both wheel sizes and figure out for your self what you prefer. Me personally, once I switched to a 29er 10 years ago, I never looked at a smaller wheel size, but then again I'm also over 6ft, so that tends to make 29ers even more viable for me.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    489
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I'll chime in and ask, what tyres were on the TB, regular 29ers or B+? If they were 29ers, was it an Ardent on the front? If so, I'll go against rider error and tell you that tyre absolutely fvcking sucks and has put down more than it's fair share of riders exactly as it did you. If they had om something else, like Minions, then most likely it was your not being accustomed to the new geo and wide bar/short stem setup, and maybe over corrected and caused the front to wash.

    As to whether 650B or 29er for you, only you can figure that one out. Sounds like you live someplace where finding demos isn't a problem, so go demo both wheel sizes and figure out for your self what you prefer. Me personally, once I switched to a 29er 10 years ago, I never looked at a smaller wheel size, but then again I'm also over 6ft, so that tends to make 29ers even more viable for me.
    been riding ardents front and back for the last 2 years.......you
    and your friends just suck at riding

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    2
    Assuming this was a berm, lean don't steer; and there isn't a truer example of slow in fast out. You really want to focus on your entry making sure you're not going too fast and entering high.
    Last edited by Trainable; 3 Days Ago at 05:58 PM.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hikerdave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    880
    Quote Originally Posted by Stolky View Post
    This might be an odd topic, but any input might help in my decision about a bike. I've recently returned to riding after being away for many years, and like the Iceman, have discovered many changes. I'm riding my old Rocky Mountain Element 26, mostly in Annadel State Park here in Northern California. It has plenty of climbing and flow trails, but also some fairly rocky, technical stuff. I'm pretty under biked as it is now, and am looking at a few new bikes. Because of our location, Santa Cruz is prominent here (Tallboys, 5010s, Bronsons, and Hightowers), as is Specialized (Stumpys, Enduros, a few Cambers).

    I demoed my first bike a couple of weeks ago, a carbon Tallboy. We started the ride with our usual climbs, about 1500 feet of technical and smooth single track. I absolutely loved the way it climbed, and as advertised, the big wheels rolled up over everything. I'd never experienced a bike that climbs and rolls that fast.

    However, coming down, it took some adjusting to a bike with much bigger wheels, stiffer frame, and wider handlebars. I was just getting in the groove, and it was feeling good, when I encountered trouble! Rolling pretty fast through a not particularly steep downhill, I was going through a left handed sweeper, and drifted up to the top (outside) of the groove. I fed in some input to correct and get back down in the groove, when the front wheel washed down into it, the bars crossed left, and I high sided onto a very hard boulder, doing pretty serious damage to my knee. I'm out for a couple of months, but trying to assess what I did wrong, and if I should chalk it up to an unfortunate series of events, or whether I should consider what happened in choosing my bike.

    This leads me to my question. I'd classify myself as a fairly novice rider, but we do ride some mildly challenging stuff, and while I'm no speed demon, my skills aren't bad.

    Is there anything about the geometry and riding position of the Tallboy that would lend itself to this happening? It seems like the bike responded in a way that my old Rocky Mountain never did. Could it be the higher riding position, stiffer frame, wider bars, or a combination of the three? It does seem like the Tallboy had me in a position that was higher and more forward than I'm used to, and when the front washed out, I was over the top before I knew what hit me.

    Are there other bikes in this class (call it 120 to 150 mm) that might have been more forgiving of a novice in this situation, by virtue of wheelbase, geometry, or suspension? Other bikes I've looked at (but not ridden on the trail) are the Stumpy, Transition, and Commencal Meta TR).

    Also, might opt for 27.5 over 29 just to make a little less leap into the unknown from the 26. The 29 did feel a little awkward with the combination of much more speed, and slower turning than I'm used to.

    Any help greatly appreciated!
    If you ride into a groove and the front of the tire contacts the ground ahead of your steering axis which gives you negative trail which can make the steering wheel flop over very quickly. If there's a rain groove on the trail you want to weave back and forth across the groove instead of getting stuck in it.

    I've seen a bicycle go over the bars on a level trail because of this and I've gone down on my road bike at the edge of just 2".

    Your crash is more bad luck than anything but once you get used to crossing a groove this kind of thing won't upset your bike as much.
    "Thank you, God, for letting me have another day"
    The Milagro Beanfield War

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    459
    Quote Originally Posted by Stolky View Post
    Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Very helpful.

    And Joules, if my post didn't clearly convey it, I'm fully aware that my mismanagement of the bike was the primary cause of the crash, in part by my lack of experience on it.

    I also race cars, where my skill level is much higher. There are certain cars that are more tightly wound, and designed to be operated more on a fine edge. These cars will perform at a higher level when driven correctly by a skilled driver, but can often be less forgiving of input errors, and are more prone to crash when mishandled. I was mostly curious whether that also might hold true with certain bikes? If I knew the answer, I wouldn't have asked the question.
    This holds true, but is more due to the tires on the bike than the suspension. Suspension plays a roll, but not like tires. You can shred with no suspension, one gear and good tires on a bicycle.

    Try tracking a car without suspension and it won't happen. Tires on a bike are even more important than a car. Get some good tires until you get the skills to handle a tire that requires much finesse. I can't stress this enough.

    Psi is unique to the terrain, rider, rim width, so you will have to experiment here.

    Conditions change from day to day. What hooked great the first time may slide out another day. Always get a feel for the conditions of the day before going full ham.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    459
    Ardents are garbage. They seem great until you ride a good tire and realize how much you have been compensating for a crappy tire.

    Sure, they are fine in a soft Forrest floor dirt, but what doesn't?

    Hell, I would rather run an Ikon 2.35 front then an ardent. It actually hooks better, unless you are racing in "kitty litter" where a more aggressive side knob will save the day.

    If you are playing in that weight category try a. DHF, Magic Mary, Hans Dampf, 2.35 nobby nick, aggressor etc.

    You will wonder why you ever rode an ardent.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,302
    I agree on the Ikon. Its been my favorite for a while now. I find that when conditions get loose with that tire, it still does well if you get more on the front, and lean the bike by tipping the bars so to speak while out of the saddle. Articulating the bike while keeping your weight centered side to side. ( I don't know if I'm describing that very well) I'll actually feel my saddle pressing against my inside legs thigh in these cases, and I'm somewhat twisting my hips with the turn. Outside leg is down/rearward. Inside is up/ and forward, ready to push down on pedal. Like my whole body is carving the bike.

    Hope this makes sense. I've always liked faster rolling tires, especially those with volume. 2.3 -2.4. The previous gen S-works Renegade 2.3 was a favorite for quite a few conditions but mostly rocky and rooty. Now that Speccy screwed that one up, (undersized, dropped tpi) it's off the list.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,302
    Quote Originally Posted by Singletrackd View Post
    been riding ardents front and back for the last 2 years.......you
    and your friends just suck at riding
    That wasn't remotely necessary bub.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,302
    The ardent seems to me to be a tire that favors quick direction changes due to the apparent vague area in the tread pattern.

    Only a guess on my part as I've never ridden them.

  23. #23
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    22,032
    Well, I guess you're just super talented then and should be a pro. My personal experience with them , in my conditions is that they are a jack of all trades and master of none, i.e., they suck. Talking to my Maxxis rep when I used to test for them, he told me he had the same feedback from a lot of riders, a very terrain dependent tyre, lots of high sides, he himself had it happen and all the reports from users the world over would tend to back this up, but hey, what do I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singletrackd View Post
    been riding ardents front and back for the last 2 years.......you
    and your friends just suck at riding
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    3,827
    OP? Demo? Set up suspension and tire psi correctly? Very important. Heal up, proceed slowly, enjoy.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    60
    That is a pretty forgiving bike, more than your 26er. Get used to it and you'll find you crash less I'm sure! Imo a Bronson is more forgiving still as the smaller wheels are less foreign coming from 26ers. Two possibly relevant things are that with longer, slacker bikes you don't have to hang off the back as much as can more aggressively weight the front. You might have had too little front weight causing the initial understeer. Also it's much more common now to run DHish tires on trail bikes. One key carcteristic of these are really aggressive side knobs, good braking knobs in the middle and not much else. This means that to have corner grip the bike needs a lot of lean angle. If you don't get the bike over enough it'll wash in mild turns. Also with wide bars you have more leverage. The impact on steering is pretty intuitive but the impact on traction might not be. Pressure downward on the inside bar will reduce front grip, pressure downward on the outside bar will increase it. The effect is surprisingly profound. If you aren't mindful of this you can inadvertently make he front end do all sorts of weird things. Back in the day of long stems and skinny bars this effect was minor and fairly inconsequential.

    Fwiw I rented a Bronson and rode it hard on unfamiliar trails and found it super forgiving. It saved my behind a couple of times where I sure didn't deserve it. Yeti also tends to make really forgiving bikes. Intense tends to be a bit more tightly wound. Very sharp, immediate handling. I love that but I'm pretty experienced in most things two wheels. Santa Cruz tends to be also be on the sporty side of average but not to such an extreme. If the spider is a 911 GT3 the santa Cruz is maybe a 911 S.

    Also to me (I spent over 20yrs riding and racing on 26ers) 29ers feel a bit unique where a 27.5 rides like a 26 with a bit better roll over. I don't think one is definitely better than another but there's a lot less adjustment going from 26 to 27.5 than either of those to 29.

    One other thought. A modern bike is so smooth and quiet you can easily end up going a lot faster than you might think you are going. You may have had way more speed than you realized going into your crash.

    Heal up and ride on!!!

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    8
    Thanks, BikePilot. Others have offered some of those causes, but you summed it up very well. I've concluded, based on what you and others have suggested, that the following happened:
    1. As you said, smooth, quiet 29er much faster than my bike...more speed than I realized.
    2. My weight too far back for modern bike; not enough weight on front wheel.
    3. Much wider bars than I was used to compounded the problem...too much corrective input.

    I believe I can now close the case, and hopefully learn from it. Thanks also for the feedback on some bikes, that's partly what I'd hoped to learn. I've decided to get a 27.5 next, as it will be a more natural transition for me to the modern bike. Some bikes that look great to me are the Bronson, Ibis Mojo 3, and RM Altitude. There's also a killer deal on an Intense Spider 275, not sure that's the right bike. Perhaps Stumpy, too. Definitely want to lean toward the forgiving, after my recent experience, but I'm clear that if I make the same mistakes on any modern bike, I'm going to get launched again!

    Knee healing fast...I'll be riding again within a month, I hope.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    60
    Cool have fun! I just bought the Spider and friggin love it. Haven't had a reason to require customer service yet from Intense. I did have a couple questions about the bike and called their customer service line. A helpful and knowledgeable guy answered and got me all sorted out. The spider is a scalpel and not especially forgiving (but is hugely capable for the weight/travel). I like the RM altitude but don't have much time on it. Ibis makes lovely bikes. I think there is a new mojo out or coming out. The old one should be cheap now. It's a great bike. Geo is not super moden on the old mojo but that might not be bad thing.

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    8
    Aha, you got the Spider!. Cool. As mentioned, my deal on a 2017 is crazy good, if I want it. Hard to pass up. The Altitude looks killer (I have an old Element), but I'd be paying full freight for a 2018. The Ibis is fairly popular where I ride (along with Santa Cruz, Yeti, and Specialized). Would love to find a deal on the Mojo 3...that bike looks perfect, and you can run everything from 2.3" to 2.8" tires.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    60
    The rear end on the spider is really short. Makes it super snappy and playful but does not leave room for big tires. 2.5 is probably the realistic max. Some models of 2.6s have been known to fit but with minimal clearance. I think competitivecyclist.com had and may still have HD3s heavily discounted. With the hd4 out leftover 3s should be discounted. Perhaps try to demo the mojo and spider before you buy.

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    60
    The spider is pretty

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    8
    Beautiful! The shop around the corner has a Mojo 3 for demo, so I can try it. No Spider demo around. Found a decent deal on a 2017 Mojo 3, but not nearly as good a deal as the Spider. I think HD3 is more travel than I need.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    60
    Cool, yes the mojo 3 looks awesome. I'll keep an eye out for your demo impressions! I've only ridden the hd version. The mojo 3 looks really similar to the spider in most respects and is probably more forgiving/less sharp in handling I'd guess. Certainly will be with 2.8 rubber!

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by BikePilot1 View Post
    Cool, yes the mojo 3 looks awesome. I'll keep an eye out for your demo impressions! I've only ridden the hd version. The mojo 3 looks really similar to the spider in most respects and is probably more forgiving/less sharp in handling I'd guess.
    All things equal, I'd possibly get the Mojo. But, the Spider is $1,000 less for a similar spec. I'm a sucker for a great deal, and I'm sure it would also be all the bike I could ever want. Thanks again for the help.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    60
    Haha I get that! I was pretty sure the spider was for me and planned to demo everything. I rode one, loved it and bought it before I got a demo on the mojo 3. The deals on them helped. Got a pro build new for 3400 shipped (no local dealer for me so I ordered on line). The oem wheels are too narrow and brake rotors too small imo otherwise the build is pretty good. Xx1 and x01, fox elite (same as factory but w/o the gold kashima coatings). I've swapped rotors out for 203mm units and will eventually lace up some wide rims. Mostly I just need to out miles on it!

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    101
    I washed out on demo ride on new bike as well this past weekend. I'm coming from a old school 26er as well. I do chalk some if it up to adjusting to the new geo, however, do know what tires were on the demo bike? I blame my washout 70% on the tires and 30% on adjusting to a new bike. Washouts shouldn't just happen out of the blue, there should be skid and warning that's it's going to give way soon. Didn't happen for me, it's just disappeared from under me and before I knew it I was eating dirt.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 02-28-2014, 01:50 PM
  2. Seek formula for figuring out front & rear shock pressure for ECDM
    By moshemark in forum Tandem Mountain Bikes
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-22-2011, 08:50 PM
  3. Hard time figuring out what size to go with.
    By Matterofpride in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-21-2011, 02:47 PM
  4. need help figuring out rear shock size.
    By RoyBell in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-04-2011, 05:57 PM
  5. Need some help figuring out upgrades.
    By joeycoates in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-09-2011, 12:46 AM

Members who have read this thread: 85

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •