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  1. #1
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    Chinese carbon frames why the tabboo??

    I recently bought a tideace Chinese carbon 27.5 . Has anyone had any issues with a chinese carbon frame? I had done a good bit of reserch before the purchase . Everyone I talked to advised against it. But to be honest if the majority of the big name brands are also produced in china or tiwan then why the hate on these frames? Im just curious. I personaly love mine .But I did have my reservations at first .Mainly concerned about thier supposed warranty. But when I did encounter a issue I contacttthe company and they replaced the part. Just like any of the big beands would have . Any feed back or experiences would be appreciated.

  2. #2
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    C'mon man, there are thousands of posts about just this topic, on a wide variety of forums all over the internet. I actually think the general consensus of chinese frames is the opposite of what you describe. People rave about them and spend a great amount of time on the internet trying to convince anyone who will listen that their bike is "exactly the same as the real brands". Glad you like your bike.

  3. #3
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    If your not hard on your equipment then it's "Probably fine". I'm big and tend to push the limits of my bike and talent. A couple hundred dollars isn't worth possible hospital time. Plus I tend to keep my bikes for 10+ years. Buying something like a Santa Cruz with a lifetime warranty and free bearing for life costs less over the long run. I feel the same about headsets. I have a king headset that's 15 years old and has 8k+ mountain miles on it. It's been on 3 bikes. yes it was expensive, but 4-6 cane creek 40's would have been more and I would have had the hassle of fixing them.

  4. #4
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    Thank you for the feedback .

  5. #5
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    I think much of the taboo stems from the existence of counterfeit/copy frames that have been available out of Asia. I think most would agree that counterfeit is uncool. Copies that aren't falsely branded are perhaps less uncool. Then there's the fact that frames of unknown provenance also are of unknown quality. But, if the frame is from a legit and identifiable manufacturer/brand that happens to be located in China, I don't see a problem.
    Do the math.

  6. #6
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    I think there's some misunderstanding here. The same factory can churn out crap or excellence; it depends on the materials, design, tolerances, and quality control. In other words, how much money is invested in creating the product. The no-name frames aren't trusted because their price point rules every aspect of their design and manufacture, and it's basically impossible to hold the vendor accountable for an inferior or dangerous product.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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  7. #7
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    Counterfeit stuff robs hard working people of their due.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by @Ride@ View Post
    Counterfeit stuff robs hard working people of their due.
    Selling the same frame with Specialized slapped on it for 1000 dollars more robs the consumer...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RajunCajun44 View Post
    Selling the same frame with Specialized slapped on it for 1000 dollars more robs the consumer...
    That's what licensing and patents and copyrights are for. Companies (groups of individuals) can own designs and ideas and soforth.

    Take your theiving granola hippy bullsh!t the hell outta here.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by @Ride@ View Post
    That's what licensing and patents and copyrights are for. Companies (groups of individuals) can own designs and ideas and soforth.

    Take your theiving granola hippy bullsh!t the hell outta here.
    this
    They can also be sued. Having a company that is responsible if your frame self destructs is important to me.
    Santa cruz has a reputation for making tough carbon bikes. That is hard earned and they back it up with a life time warranty.
    some random Chinese company have loyalty to you as they will problem just change there name in a year or so.
    Now just because it's from china doesn't make it bad. I tend to only deal with reputable company's regardless of country of origin. When you ride a bike, if it breaks you could die! I'll pay extra to not crash from a component failure.

  11. #11
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    I currently have a Imust S7 27.5 (china Frame). It takes what ever I can throw at it. I don't see why, I should pay $2000-$3000 for a name brand frame. Most frames are made in china anyways, but with a brand name like SC on it, which cost more just for the name. When I can get a frame, which is probably made in the same plant at the SC named frames. They are just as good as the frame with the SC name on it, but at half the cost.

  12. #12
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    I've bought a fair amount of chinese carbon stuff, and here is my opinion.

    • Is chinese carbon a good deal? Yes
    • Is a $300 carbon frame as the same as a $2,000 carbon frame? No, its not. I don't know why people aren't happy enough to get a decent frame for not a lot of cash, but instead feel they need to claim it is "the same" as much higher priced frames. Expensive bikes are really nice, if you ride one you can tell the difference. If you build up an expensive frame versus a cheap frame you will notice the difference in quality. It doesn't mean it's 10 times better than a cheaper bike, but it is better.
    • Am I afraid to ride chinese carbon? No, not at all.
    • Would I buy another chinese carbon frame? Hardtail, Yes. Full suspension, probably not. The FS carbon frame I bought a couple of years ago had very cheap pivots. I expected that when I bought it and don't regret buying it because it fit my needs at the time, but they are substantially lower quality than what you would get with any brand name fs bike. The carbon is fine, but the pivots were clearly inferior
    Warning: may contain sarcasm and/or crap made up in an attempt to feel important.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by alucke View Post
    I currently have a Imust S7 27.5 (china Frame). It takes what ever I can throw at it. I don't see why, I should pay $2000-$3000 for a name brand frame. Most frames are made in china anyways, but with a brand name like SC on it, which cost more just for the name. When I can get a frame, which is probably made in the same plant at the SC named frames. They are just as good as the frame with the SC name on it, but at half the cost.
    SC has it's own factory and quality control.
    Glad you like your frame but it is not the same and did not come from the same factory.

  14. #14
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    I've never been sorry that I bought something of high quality, if I could afford it. In the question of whether or not a company will be there down the road and stand behind their products, I think it is better to buy the brand name. It's cheaper, in the long run.

  15. #15
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    I don't know why all the hating on Chinese frames. I have ridden SC, pivot, specialized at my LBS. I never liked those manufactures. All of the SC line kinda looks like the same frame, except the V10. As with pivot bikes, they just didn't feel balanced to me. Also with Specialized, I will never deal with them. I have also checked the pivot linkage on my bike and compared it to a friends name brand bike with similar suspension. The linkage was made from the same material and the bearings were of the similar quality. Coming from IT engineering background, I have researched this a lot. And aside from not offering lifetime frame warranty, which is a trade off for the price, I will deal with it.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RajunCajun44 View Post
    Selling the same frame with Specialized slapped on it for 1000 dollars more robs the consumer...
    The same frame? lol.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by alucke View Post
    I don't know why all the hating on Chinese frames. I have ridden SC, pivot, specialized at my LBS. I never liked those manufactures. All of the SC line kinda looks like the same frame, except the V10. As with pivot bikes, they just didn't feel balanced to me. Also with Specialized, I will never deal with them. I have also checked the pivot linkage on my bike and compared it to a friends name brand bike with similar suspension. The linkage was made from the same material and the bearings were of the similar quality. Coming from IT engineering background, I have researched this a lot. And aside from not offering lifetime frame warranty, which is a trade off for the price, I will deal with it.
    I wouldn't say that there was any "hate" on chinese frames itt. There may be a lack of love, but I haven't seen hate expressed.

    I'm coming from a mechanical engineering background, and there is absolutely a difference between something that says "made in taiwan" and "made in china", or "made in the usa" and "made in china".

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailville View Post
    I've bought a fair amount of chinese carbon stuff, and here is my opinion.

    • Is chinese carbon a good deal? Yes
    • Is a $300 carbon frame as the same as a $2,000 carbon frame? No, its not. I don't know why people aren't happy enough to get a decent frame for not a lot of cash, but instead feel they need to claim it is "the same" as much higher priced frames. Expensive bikes are really nice, if you ride one you can tell the difference. If you build up an expensive frame versus a cheap frame you will notice the difference in quality. It doesn't mean it's 10 times better than a cheaper bike, but it is better.
    • Am I afraid to ride chinese carbon? No, not at all.
    • Would I buy another chinese carbon frame? Hardtail, Yes. Full suspension, probably not. The FS carbon frame I bought a couple of years ago had very cheap pivots. I expected that when I bought it and don't regret buying it because it fit my needs at the time, but they are substantially lower quality than what you would get with any brand name fs bike. The carbon is fine, but the pivots were clearly inferior
    What he said ^
    Ridley CX, Stumpjumper Carbon HT, Surly Wednesday

  19. #19
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    I come from a manufacturing background and have dealt with overseas vendors in the past. Here's my take on it:

    - The stories folks tell about having to babysit their vendors is absolutely true. An importer must have someone living overseas near the factory. His/her role is to constantly look over the shoulders of the supplier. There's a very fine line between being impolite and being shrewd, and that person must ride that fine line.

    - Vertical integration is actively avoided in these countries. Often times vendors of one company are owned by friends and relatives. They don't step on each other's toes, and thus there's a long supply chain. Things can go wrong with any one of those vendors, so it's important to scrutinize incoming materials just as carefully as the outgoing product.

    - Companies import to save money, and factories overseas know this. Factories quote with little buffer room for rejected product as to not risk losing the sale with too high of a price. A rejected product is to be avoided at all costs.

    - Companies that don't have the "babysitting" layer of QC means that a lot of would-be rejected product pass through the pipeline and end up in the hands of customers looking for a good deal. On one hand, you might get something that is virtually identical to that of a big brand. On the otherhand, you may end up with something that should've have been sent to the scrap bin. Roll the dice.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricTheDood View Post
    I come from a manufacturing background and have dealt with overseas vendors in the past. Here's my take on it:

    - The stories folks tell about having to babysit their vendors is absolutely true. An importer must have someone living overseas near the factory. His/her role is to constantly look over the shoulders of the supplier. There's a very fine line between being impolite and being shrewd, and that person must ride that fine line.

    - Vertical integration is actively avoided in these countries. Often times vendors of one company are owned by friends and relatives. They don't step on each other's toes, and thus there's a long supply chain. Things can go wrong with any one of those vendors, so it's important to scrutinize incoming materials just as carefully as the outgoing product.

    - Companies import to save money, and factories overseas know this. Factories quote with little buffer room for rejected product as to not risk losing the sale with too high of a price. A rejected product is to be avoided at all costs.

    - Companies that don't have the "babysitting" layer of QC means that a lot of would-be rejected product pass through the pipeline and end up in the hands of customers looking for a good deal. On one hand, you might get something that is virtually identical to that of a big brand. On the otherhand, you may end up with something that should've have been sent to the scrap bin. Roll the dice.
    ^
    Great add on, thanks!

    This is absolutely true. The reality is, yes big manufacturers are not the same build. We could go on and on, but, The way that Specialized wrap there triangle weaves, (10-18K) the way SC wraps their's, etc. are all different. What your paying for with these companies is warranty. Your going to have better chance of crash replacement with one of the big 4 then trying to get crash replacement with a local asian vendor. So that would be the biggest difference out of the box. I think we are all past wether or not they are 'good quality' but now the debate should be their replacement warranty.

    ~Thrill.

  21. #21
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    I'm curious how all of you who have no problem with these cheap chinese knock off frames feel about job losses to overseas manufacturing. Or if you designed something, sent it to a factory to be made, had to pay for R&D, testing, protos, marketing, sales reps, accountants, QC people etc and then had the same company turn around and produce said same product and sell it out their back door for less than it costs you to land it in your 1st world country - how would you feel then?

    China is like trump, no business ethics in the least, no laws there for patent infringement, only thing you can do is take future production elsewhere and as was stated, the quality comes from the amount of $$ you spend to make it that way, they only produce as good as you make them produce.
    Last edited by LyNx; 4 Weeks Ago at 06:04 AM. Reason: spelling
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I'm curious how all of you who have no problem with these cheap chinese knock off frames feel about job losses to overseas manufacturing. Or if you designed something, sent it to a factory to be made, had to pay for R&D, testing, protos, marketing, sales reps, accountants, QC people etc and then had the same company turn around and produce said same product and sell it out their back door for less than it costs you to land it in your 1st world country - how would you feel then?

    China is like trump, no business ethics in the least, no laws there for patent infringement, only thing you can do is take future production elsewhere and as was stated, the quality comes from the amount of $$ you spend to make it that way, they only produce as good as you make them produce.
    You had me until you dogged the greatest president in my 4+ decades of life in this great country.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I'm curious how all of you who have no problem with these cheap chinese knock off frames feel about job losses to overseas manufacturing. Or if you designed something, sent it to a factory to be made, had to pay for R&D, testing, protos, marketing, sales reps, accountants, QC people etc and then had the same company turn around and produce said same product and sell it out their back door for less than it costs you to land it in your 1st world country - how would you feel then?
    I'm in the minority here because I work in American manufacturing. I'm part of a small, single digit % of the American workforce.

    How do I feel about an American company that designs stuff here, offshores their manufacturing, then gets screwed over by the overseas vendor?

    I feel fine about it. Zero sympathy from me.
    Last edited by EricTheDood; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:39 PM.

  24. #24
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    I'm looking at a $700 carbon fs frame right now. I'd happily pay $1400 for a new, brand-name product, but it looks like they start at over $2000. Even "budget" brands like Diamondback and Fuji don't have an economical carbon offering.

  25. #25
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    Getting one of these $700 and then putting $4000 worth of eagle/carbon wheels on it just seems crazy. I see a lot of blinged out builds using these frames. I would much rather have a quality frame and cheaper build.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

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