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  1. #1
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    '96 Voodoo Bizango or '95 Independent Fabrication Deluxe?

    Hi,

    First off, I feel very fortunate that I have the option to even make this choice! By luck I've ended up with these two frames. I built the Bizango up last year and love it. Now I've ended up with an IF Deluxe frame from 1995. I might un-build the Bizango and build the IF. Of course, then I can't ride them side-by-side to compare. I can't really keep both...

    Anybody ever compare these two bikes? Both are beautifully made 4 pound steel frames. Are there any real appreciable differences in the way they ride and handle?

    Thanks,

    Jack

  2. #2
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    I have never had either of the frames you mentioned,but I have had a Voodoo frame and really liked it.Still,if I had the choice I'd pick the Independent Fabrications,their frames are very nice and they are special.Post up some pictures if you can,that would help a lot.

  3. #3
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    I'll post a pic of the voodoo and try and take some pics of the IF tonight.

  4. #4
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    Here's my favorite weird pic I took of the Voodoo inside a lime kiln:



    Here's a more normal pic:


  5. #5
    Mantis, Paramount, Campy
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    In the future...

    The IF will have resale value
    The Voodoo will not
    *** --- *** --- ***

  6. #6
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    Interesting... I always thought Voodoo had kind of a cult following (no pun intended).

  7. #7
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    IF is a handmade US frame by the former (very recently former in 1995) Fat Chance employees. The Voodoo, while a neat frame, was made in Taiwan then shipped to the US for final assembly.

    Both great steel frame (and both could have disc brake tabs put on if you know a good frame welder nearby) but the IF has higher "appeal" if all other things are equal.

  8. #8
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    Were Voodoo frames being made in Taiwan even back in '96?

    I've got a thought... I have my nice old '94 Trek 930 that I bought new... Sure, the components are just STX (except the XT derailleurs), but they work well. Maybe I'll dismantle the Trek and put the parts on the IF then upgrade over time. Then I'll have the IF *and* the Voodoo! Then what becomes of the Trek frame? It's like an old friend. Maybe I'll just leave it hanging in the basement for a while.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack_read
    Were Voodoo frames being made in Taiwan even back in '96?

    I've got a thought... I have my nice old '94 Trek 930 that I bought new... Sure, the components are just STX (except the XT derailleurs), but they work well. Maybe I'll dismantle the Trek and put the parts on the IF then upgrade over time. Then I'll have the IF *and* the Voodoo! Then what becomes of the Trek frame? It's like an old friend. Maybe I'll just leave it hanging in the basement for a while.
    Made by Toyo...one of Japan's and Taiwan's best steel frame builders. Also makes some other notable steel frames such as Rocky Mountain (no, they were not welded in Canada), Ritchey, and Rivendell

    Like I said, a very good frame in it's own right...just lacking the heritage of the IF

  10. #10
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    Pics of the IF. Note the pump peg on the back of the seat tube- I like that. I might actually have to get a pump that'll fit. :-)

    I've decided it's a keeper for sure.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails '96 Voodoo Bizango or '95 Independent Fabrication Deluxe?-if2.jpg  

    '96 Voodoo Bizango or '95 Independent Fabrication Deluxe?-if3.jpg  

    '96 Voodoo Bizango or '95 Independent Fabrication Deluxe?-if4.jpg  

    '96 Voodoo Bizango or '95 Independent Fabrication Deluxe?-if5.jpg  


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack_read
    Pics of the IF. Note the pump peg on the back of the seat tube- I like that. I might actually have to get a pump that'll fit. :-)

    I've decided it's a keeper for sure.
    YES...very nice, I like the custom painted Judy SL (you can tell from the press fit stanchions) as well.

  12. #12
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    Wow, the IF is really beautiful. Beside the heritage, it's just a fantastic frame built by some fantastic people. As much as I loved Voodoos of that vintage, the IF is pure class. I'd probably only trump that with a Fat Chance on my list.
    Don't you hate it when a sentence doesn't end the way you think it octopus?

  13. #13
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    That settles it. You guys have convinced me. I'm going to recycle the parts off my old Trek and build this thing up. It'll be all STX except the XT derailleurs, but that'll do fine for now.

    I'll post pics when I'm done. It will probably take me a couple of weeks to get to it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack_read
    That settles it. You guys have convinced me. I'm going to recycle the parts off my old Trek and build this thing up. It'll be all STX except the XT derailleurs, but that'll do fine for now.

    I'll post pics when I'm done. It will probably take me a couple of weeks to get to it.
    The biggest challenge will be the seatpost...believe its a 29.4 but you can always shim and just use a 27.2

    Otherwise most stuff will come strait across from the Trek

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker72
    Made by Toyo...one of Japan's and Taiwan's best steel frame builders. Also makes some other notable steel frames such as Rocky Mountain (no, they were not welded in Canada), Ritchey, and Rivendell

    Like I said, a very good frame in it's own right...just lacking the heritage of the IF
    You may find this interesting....

    http://cgi.ebay.com/VOODOO-BIZANGO-H...item1c1328e237

    I don't know if that's the case or not,but maybe some were built here.

    I agree with you though,the IF is a special frame,but the Voodoo is also an exceptional frame.I'd keep the IF myself,but if you keep the Voodoo you could get a pretty penny for the IF and still have a very good frame.

  16. #16
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    The shim's already in there- you can see its silver lip in one of the photos. I am good to go!

  17. #17
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    I took the Judy SL apart and found the elastomer MCUs looking like a crumbled/dried up piece of a hot dog. I cleaned everything out and replaced the MCU (temporarily) with a steel coil spring and a short aluminum spacer I made, loaded everything with grease, and reassembled. It works reasonably well although I hope to get my hands on the proper parts soon.

  18. #18
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRed
    You may find this interesting....

    http://cgi.ebay.com/VOODOO-BIZANGO-H...item1c1328e237

    I don't know if that's the case or not,but maybe some were built here.

    I agree with you though,the IF is a special frame,but the Voodoo is also an exceptional frame.I'd keep the IF myself,but if you keep the Voodoo you could get a pretty penny for the IF and still have a very good frame.
    Well that is kind of deceptive...back then even Raleigh was claiming US made with frames made in China. Here's how it works:

    Frame is welded in Taiwan then shipped raw to the US where it is powder coated (or painted) and then assembled. Then it can be claimed to be US made. Rocky Mountain Hammer and Blizzards (also made by Toyo) did the same thing. The claimed they were made in Canada because they were powder coated and assembled in Canada.

  20. #20
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    From mtnbiker72:

    "Well that is kind of deceptive...back then even Raleigh was claiming US made with frames made in China. Here's how it works:

    Frame is welded in Taiwan then shipped raw to the US where it is powder coated (or painted) and then assembled. Then it can be claimed to be US made. Rocky Mountain Hammer and Blizzards (also made by Toyo) did the same thing. The claimed they were made in Canada because they were powder coated and assembled in Canada."


    Very interesting.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack_read
    I took the Judy SL apart and found the elastomer MCUs looking like a crumbled/dried up piece of a hot dog. I cleaned everything out and replaced the MCU (temporarily) with a steel coil spring and a short aluminum spacer I made, loaded everything with grease, and reassembled. It works reasonably well although I hope to get my hands on the proper parts soon.
    Replace with springs

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Kronos-Springs-R...ht_2065wt_1139

    or

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Coil-Springs-Roc...ht_1560wt_1139

    Also the damper if not working is rebuildable

    http://www.mtb-kataloge.de/Bikekatal...als/judyxc.pdf

  22. #22
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    '96 Voodoo Bizango or '95 Independent Fabrication Deluxe? BOTH! :-)

    I just took the IF out for the first time. It's a blast to ride. Sweet handling! More pics to follow...

  23. #23
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  24. #24
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    '96 Bizango and '95 Deluxe...

  25. #25
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  26. #26
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    Here's a photo of the Voodoo and the IF side by side. I tried to line up the axles to get a good comparison. The geometries of the two bikes are very different. That's partially because the IF has the original 75mm fork, where the Voodoo has a more modern 100mm fork, so the Voodoo looks a bit high in the front. It still handles really nice, though. After only one ride on the IF I cannot pick one over the other. Both are nice bikes in their own right.

  27. #27
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    Well,if you want to make some serious coin while still being left with a very nice frame...sell the IF,but if you want the prestige of owning an iconic frame like the IF...sell the Voodoo.

  28. #28
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    I'm keeping them both... At least for now.

  29. #29
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    Wow! I'm jealous!

    Your pic of both bikes lined up is interesting. They look different because of the top tube, but actually the seat tube and head tube angles appear similar. I would think they feel like similar geometries except you have your handlebars lower on the IF. You can just get a stem with more angle or get riser bars to fix that. (Although, the period-correct stem is very cool with that bike.)
    Have fun!

  30. #30
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    Wheelspeed- Funny you should say that. As soon as I took the pics I changed the setup to a riser stem and a period-incorrect riser bar. :-) It doesn't look as cool, but it works better for my riding style, or lack thereof.

    Also, if you look at the pic of both bikes parked front to back you can see that the head tube on the Voodoo looks a lot steeper. I don't know if it's an artifact of the camera lens, but I'll have to check it. That would explain the very different handling between the two bikes.

    And NOW I am heading out to ride! :-D

  31. #31
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    I think that is something no one has mentioned between the 2 bikes - the blaring geometry differences. Those 2 bikes are night and day.

    I'm more into the Voodoo geometry (ridden Kona since the nineties). The IF has more of a old school NORBA-racer thing going on.

    If it were me, I'd keep both, and hand the IF on the wall! The IF is obviously a "nicer" frame in all aspects - anyone trying to argue that doesn't know what they're talking about. But for the ride, it's all opinion - I'd jump on the Voodoo in a pinch if I were being chased and needed a bike. But I'd grab the IF if I were looking for a piece of art for the living room.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack_read
    I've got a thought... I have my nice old '94 Trek 930 that I bought new... Sure, the components are just STX (except the XT derailleurs), but they work well. Maybe I'll dismantle the Trek and put the parts on the IF then upgrade over time. Then I'll have the IF *and* the Voodoo! Then what becomes of the Trek frame? It's like an old friend. Maybe I'll just leave it hanging in the basement for a while.
    Easy. Now you have the base for a ghetto single speed.

  33. #33
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    Just for kicks I threw the IF on the scale- it's a light bike: 24.86 pounds! That was after swapping out the crankset for the nice CNC'ed Crux crankset I got from the original owner, along with the original XTR BB.

    Anybody ever heard of Crux cranks? I can't find a darn thing about them. They're nice- all CNC'ed aluminum crankarms and rings.

  34. #34
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    No offense, but that IF DESERVES some bling parts. Teal colored ones.

  35. #35
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    Yeah... Some subtle blue bling. I'm thinkin' seatpost binder and crankbolts. Some nice old blue anodized quick release skewers might do it.

  36. #36
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    Good call on keeping both of those nice frames. As I was reading the thread, I was hoping you'd figure out a way to make that happen.

    Sweet bikes!

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