1. The most important thing about buying a new bike is to make sure it fits. The only way you'll know if the bike is right for you is to size up the bike and make sure that the bike's geometry matches your body's geometry. Ask questions and do some research.
mtn. biking 101
2. If possible, try to find a shop that will let you demo the bike on real dirt. Five minutes in a parking lot won't cut it. You wouldn't buy a car without a real world test drive, and a bike should be no different.
3. Don't belive the hype. Just because your favorite rider or best friend rides a certain bike, that doesn't mean that's the best one for you. Have an open mind and be realistic about your needs and ability.
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  1. #76
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    Sure am glad I went with XX1
    There seems to be a dark cloud of controversy over all this Shimano stuff

    Sj
    I am slow therefore I am

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    I think SLX is where the value optimum is at.
    Agree, first gen slx crankset looks and feel really good, actually a few grams lighter than XT, and more set up choices. If Shimano put "XTR" on it I'd believe it.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    see you are another one of those who lack basic reading comprehension. You accuse me of coming to the thread with an axe to grind, meanwhile I posted BEFORE mimi and HE came to the thread and started giving me a ration of ****? But why let facts get in the way of things. Maybe I'll call the mods in myself so they can take a look thru and see who is initiating the attacks. And lets add you to the list of people that have nothign to do with this and should butt out.
    Check again

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by drifter248 View Post
    cpfitness, mimi1885, AZ. MTNS, roadie scum (and whoever else might want to get in on the scrum) quit hijacking this thread. As a newbie I was hoping to find some worthwhile comments regarding the durability/value of XT vs XTR, but end up getting caught up in some pissing match. Please grow up and take your childish bickering elsewhere.
    Noted.

    There were plenty said about the subject. Here's the thing cpfitness came in here and started to derail the thread defending bikedirect, that's a no no, especially in the beginner's forum. We need to call him on it, if not some noobs would come in and see the non-sense.

    Back to the topic,
    My easy understanding on the Shimano components line is (let's start from the bottom)
    Deore is the entry level Mtb components, then the LX and SLX which enjoy the trickle down tech from XT/XTR, the main difference between SLX and XT is the forming method, XT-cold forged and, SLX-Cast, many other features are the same.

    XTR has about 10-15% performance boost over XT at twice the price, and the performance gain mainly found in more extreme situations. When it comes to pure performance, if you don't care about going thru your gears from top to bottom in 2 swipes, and/or have the habit of shifting in the middle of the steep hill, you won't notice it.

    Now it's even more choices as XTR has split into race and trail. Race for high performance XC application, and trail is for All Mountain heavier duty application. For the ultimate in Shimano durability would be Saint line.
    Last edited by mimi1885; 12-04-2012 at 01:41 PM.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    I'm a real life bad ass.
    You should try chamois cream (butt lube) - DZ Nuts is a good brand. Reduces chafing and cases of severely bad ass.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimpleJon View Post
    Unless money is no object I would go with Deore, SLX or XT, you won't notice the difference until you develop your fitness and skills.
    Shifter is somewhat noticeable - judging by my wife. XTR is very light action.

    On my bikes I often end up with parts for historical reasons - for her bike my calculations of the value optimum had been: SLX crank with XT granny ring (alloy) and BBG bash guard instead of the large ring, SLX cassette (new one), XT rear derailleur and SLX front (short cage) - would have bought Zee shadow-plus rear D now, XTR shifter (splurged), XT brakes (appearance reason over SLX) and SLX 6-bolt MT-65 wheels and RT76 (non ice-tech) rotors. With some interwebz shopping kung-fu deals had been really, really good.

  7. #82
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    I bought all xtr drivetrain used it for almost a year/3k miles, traded it to my buddy for a new xt drivetrain with shadow rd. The only difference is a few grams and the shifter takes a lil more force but I atribute that to the shadow rd

  8. #83
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    You can learn a lot about the durability of component groups by looking at the exploded diagrams for said parts on shimano's website.

    Take a rear deraileur for instance. At the deore level, the jockey sprocket is just a single piece. Go a level higher and you've got a bronze/oilite bushing as your bearing surface instead of nylon. Go another level higher and you've got a ceramic bushing. Bushings have nice bearing surfaces. Ceramic is harder than bronze. Stuff with nice bearing surfaces will endure longer before developing sufficient slop to cause alignment problems. Stuff with hard bearing surfaces will last even longer. That tells you a lot about longetivity.

    Take a look at the schematic for the part in question.
    Identify wear surfaces and what might be causing the wear.
    Figure out which wear surface will last longest based on lubricity and hardness and resistance to corrosion.

    You can use a similar strategy for each component to try to identify what is going to last longest.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    Sorry, you aren't aware of mimi's history with me and if you were you could see that he clearly decided to bring it into this thread for no reason whatsoever. I don't ride a motobecane mtb, but I wouldn't hesitate too. Tired of the snobs on here. no i'm not an internet bad ass, I'm a real life bad ass, but I'm also a smart one. see here in NYC, we mind our own business and people who don't mind their business end up getting hurt. You have nothing to do with this discussion between mimi and I so you stay out of it.
    BWAHAHAHAHAHA, pure 24k gold, sometimes this place throws up a real gem of a post, honestly this post made me crack right up..

    edit, sorry CHUM missed the message to chill......just read it.....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  10. #85
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    Interesting to see how this thread has evolved !

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowerJoe View Post
    Sure am glad I went with XX1
    There seems to be a dark cloud of controversy over all this Shimano stuff

    Sj
    You're right. Glad I'm on X0/X9 components too. They do have a significantly crisper shift feel. On the flipside, my Avid Ultimates serve their purpose but aren't the best ones around.


    ....wait am I starting another war?

    -S

    Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

  12. #87
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    I've always liked to mix and match components depending on wear and cost vs weight. An xtr cassette will last forever as will an xtr shifter and derailleur. An xt front derailleur and crank will get you more bang for the buck with little weight penalty. Brakes I think xt or slx are just as good as xtr with just a bit of weight penalty.
    WHY ARE YOU YELLING??!1

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambassadorhawg View Post
    I've had a few different bikes built up with some of the parts from the last 3 generations (960, 970, 985) of XTR. Also used quite a bit of the last 3 gens of XT. All parts functioned smoothly and lasted long.

    Either way, you won't be disappointed, it's all good.

    My current bike has a combo of XTR/XT and it's great, too.
    Spot on...
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  14. #89
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    I've always rode XT, never had any problems.
    Good luck and good riding.
    Climb into the sky, never wonder why - Tailgunner
    You're a Tailgunner

  15. #90
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    Wow before reading this thread I thought my Alivio is supreme but now I feel like I have to replace it as soon as possible. In other words...

  16. #91
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    Alivio isn't good enough. Not for mountain biking. Deore is minimum.
    It's pronounced "so pro and cool."
    It was an impulse decision.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jernas View Post
    Wow before reading this thread I thought my Alivio is supreme but now I feel like I have to replace it as soon as possible. In other words...
    If you're happy with it, then it's fine. Don't replace unless it breaks.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    Alivio isn't good enough. Not for mountain biking. Deore is minimum.
    I raced an Alivio drivetrain for my first season.

    Granted it didn't all survive that first season. But it's fine for rec. mountain biking and getting one's feet wet in competition. It all worked fine before I started competing. When tuned, it stays tuned. Etc. It's just a little less forgiving of shifting under load, a little less serviceable, and some parts have a little shorter wear life. I don't know that I'd be Alivio as replacement parts, but I think it's a great package for someone getting into the sport. I'd rather have a bike ship with an Alivio drivetrain and a "real" fork than what a lot of companies do, which is working up to a SLX drivetrain before they bolt on a Recon.

    Actually still have my M-475 hub. I laced it into a new wheel for my commute bike not too long ago.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    Alivio isn't good enough. Not for mountain biking. Deore is minimum.
    I highly disagree. I would bet that more often than not, a rider's first mountain bike is equipped with Alivio-level components. Like Andrew said, they aren't quite as durable or reliable, but lots of people get by just fine with them.

  20. #95
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    Depends on how much and how hard you are riding. If you have a bike with Alivio, go with it and replace as necessary. If you're looking for a bike or looking to replace and plan to ride more than 500 hard, off road, miles in one year, Deore is minimum I would recommend.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    Depends on how much and how hard you are riding. If you have a bike with Alivio, go with it and replace as necessary. If you're looking for a bike or looking to replace and plan to ride more than 500 hard, off road, miles in one year, Deore is minimum I would recommend.
    Yup... run the Alivio into the ground. It WILL explode at some time in the future - your mileage may vary depending on how hard you ride. At that point replace it with something less likely to explode.

    -S

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by shibiwan View Post
    You're right. Glad I'm on X0/X9 components too. They do have a significantly crisper shift feel. On the flipside, my Avid Ultimates serve their purpose but aren't the best ones around.


    ....wait am I starting another war?

    -S

    Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
    That is true though. SRAM 1:1 feels really good when shifting it up or down is positive, however everyone around you can hear you shift from a mile away, there's no sneak attack on the hill. Shimano is really smooth. I like them both just different flavor.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    Alivio isn't good enough. Not for mountain biking. Deore is minimum.
    8sp is more then reliable enough. So are V-brakes. Keep it lubed and tuned and it all lasts quite fine.

    But their is a notable performance improvement when going for hydraulic brakes. And I do recommend to all of my friends to replace the big ring with a cheap bash-guard (like BB) for safety reasons. And something better than a cheap cage pedal. I would also avoid a freewheel rear on the low end. It blows up under spirited use..

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by mimi1885 View Post
    That is true though. SRAM 1:1 feels really good when shifting it up or down is positive, however everyone around you can hear you shift from a mile away, there's no sneak attack on the hill. Shimano is really smooth. I like them both just different flavor.
    I do not think it is 1:1 anymore for the 10sp. I certainly not 1:2 anymore for Shimano. Looks like they are converging to a happy medium.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    Alivio isn't good enough. Not for mountain biking. Deore is minimum.
    It is good enough. Anything is good enough, seriously. It's all in how you use it.

    I have used 7 speed on my old 1990 Rockhopper, original derailleur (albeit Exage 500...1990!!!). Original crank wore out though, square taper hole started rounding out and chainrings are worn to hell.

    My Rockhopper is also using v-brakes.

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