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  1. #1
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    Support your local LBS ... BS

    So I'm all for supporting the local shops but where do you draw the line. I decided I wanted to get Crankbrothers pedals, so I head out to my LBS. I looked at Candy C's and a pair of last years adidas shoes price is $280 + tax(15%). The only way the guy could justify his price was, "Support you LBS...Man". So I decided not to spend that much. I went through blue sky got Candy SL's and 06 Speeder shoes for $145 after exchange and shipping. So I've decided that until my LBS stops over charging then my LBS is the internet.

  2. #2
    Three sheets to the wind
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    I have a friend who has a shop and he explained it to me, it's pretty much like the Walmart or Home Depot deal. A shop can and will buy only a few items for in stock or as an order for a customer so they don't get a bulk or volume price. Many of the "E-tailers" have a warehouse type of business where they purchase large quantities and thus get a lower price which they then can pass on to us. That being said he really isn't overcharging, generally the LBS mark up is minimal but his price is higher than the internet prices. Also if a shop is dealing in more than one manufacturer of bikes, that can become a huge overhead because some of the manufacturers want like 50 or 100 grand up front.
    I always wondered why many of the shops around here are not loaded with parts from the different manufacturers and why there are no DH specific shops around. It's because the shop has to buy all that stuff up front and that costs big bucks.
    The way I try to support my shops is I give them as much wrench work as possible, and I buy the small things like tubes, tires and manufacturer parts like the DU bushings and tool for my shock. If I'm buying a new bike I get it at a shop and usually they will let me participate in the build if it is ordered and on the last bike I bought, it came with two years of free maintenence.

  3. #3
    local trails rider
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    I like to have a LBS around. Actually I frequently visit three or four... even if I am not necessarily buying much, or anything at all. I will not buy a pair of shoes or almost any piece of clothing without trying it on. I like getting my hands on a product before buying. Sometimes I need a shop to do a piece of work that I cannot handle myself.

    Cost and availability of specific products can be an issue with LBS, no doubt.

  4. #4
    Your bike is incorrigible
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    that BS saved my @ss

    I've bought 99% of my stuff from internet retailers. Last December I wanted to upgrade my brakes, and I knew I wanted some Magura FRs. They were $175 online, a really good price for the '05 model. I tried to make a deal with my LBS. I explained how I could get the brakes for a lot less online, but that I wanted to do business with his shop. He offered to come down to $200 per brake. Ok, that's still $50 more than I would have paid, but I felt like I was supporting my local LBS.

    I got the brakes and immediately bad things started happening. They discovered my frame was cracked. A replacement frame was shipped from the dealer, and my LBS faced the head tube for free. Next, the front brake was the wrong size. Once this was recognized, the LBS ordered the correct size caliper at no charge. Then the fork's tabs needed to be faced--a lot. I took it in twice for facing at no extra charge. Then the rear brake tabs needed to be faced. I guess he got tired of doing all the work for free and charged me a whopping $10 to face and shim the rear brake.

    I don't know what I would have spent had I ordered the brakes online, but it would have been more than $50.

  5. #5
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    I balance the two

    I've said this many times before, that it's a balance between me needing to put food on my table, and putting food on the table of the guy at the LBS. My LBS knows that I buy a lot online, but that I also come to him for certain things, to include the high margin wrench work. He does me favors, I do him favors. I've given him brand new parts (e.g XT front derailleurs, generic skewers) that I would get a couple bucks for on ebay. I've given him tires that, while used, still had the nubs from the mold on them. This is stuff he'll have when that one-off customer comes in and needs a quick repair and he won't have to order it from QBP. He just knocked $20 off a repair job he did on one of my bikes. I didn't expect it, but he gave it to me. It's a delicate balance, and one that works for everyone involved.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  6. #6
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    I just bought an 05 Felt F55 from the LBS yesterday. The discounted price (last years model, eh?) was slightly higher than what it looked like they were going for on the internet. But, they fitted me (and I discovered that I can ride a bigger frame than the measurements on wrenchscience.com or competitivecyclist.com indicated....54cm vs. 51-52cm). They also swapped out the Vittoria Rubino slicks for a set of Serfas Seca-RS armored all-surface jobs for free. So, I figued it was worth the extra little bit I paid. I can make it up on my next bike purchase, now that I know what I fit, right?

    The best part was that I also bought a set of Quattro SLs, a set of Mallet Cs (for the mtb) and a pair of shoes. They discounted all of those 25% off their 'retail' (not MSRP) for me. For 50% off their retail, they sold me a small seat bag, a tube, a patch kit, a CO2 inflator thingy with three bottles, a wrench kit and something else I can't remember. Then they threw in for free a can of chain lube, a pair of Pearl Izumi socks, a Presta/Schraeder adapter, a bottle cage and a bottle (with their logo, but still..).

    I'm neutral on the 'support your LBS' issue, but, this time, I think it worked out for both sides of the deal. When I added up the online value of everything and compared it to what I paid...very, very close. And I got fitted. And I kept their doors open for another day. It's all good.

    EDIT: I forgot, they replaced the stock saddle with a Serfas Terrazo leather/gel/Ti job. If I don't like it after a couple of weeks they said I could come back and swap it for any other saddle they have.
    Last edited by Dickseacup; 05-27-2006 at 04:41 PM.

  7. #7
    Double-metric mtb man
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    I know how both sides of the debate can work...sure, you can get the "stuff" on line, and likely at cheaper prices, but the people and service are not something you can order sitting at the computer.

    I can and have saved some bucks getting parts...but to get properly fit, get advice about set-up, selection of components for my riding style and local conditions, etc....you can't go wrong with the LBS.

    I don't mind paying a little bit more for a bike when I know I get the service to come with it or the knowledge to help me make it perfect for how and what I ride. At the very least, I let the pros do the wrench turning on the things that are beyond my current skills or bigger than I have time to tackle. It keeps them in business and keeps the valuable resource available to help me improve.
    As if four times wasn't enough-> Psycho Mike's 2013 Ride to Conquer Cancer Page

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  8. #8
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    Me:
    Hey man. I am needing to get some Hayes hydro lines cut down and the brakes given a bleed. Can you handle that today for me?

    LBS:
    Let me check my schedule....
    ...
    ...
    ...
    I can get you in two weeks from this Friday...

    Me:
    Really?

    LBS:
    Yep...

    Me:
    Ohh... well that sort of sucks... hmmm.... 3 weeks? Really?

    LBS:
    Yeah... but you might bring it in on Sunday... sometimes we can do stuff then....

    Me:
    Hmm... OK then... how about I just do it myself.. do you have some crush fittings and such for Hayes brakes so that if.....

    LBS:
    WELL... I have brake parts for a lot of Hayes brakes. I have a lot of parts... I don't know your brakes..

    Me:
    Do you guys have a great location?

    LBS:
    Ohh yeah... one of the best...

    Me:
    No wonder you are still in business.

    Click.

    Bike shops suck. Most don't DESERVE support. Support also is NOT paying more for a part you can get for much cheaper elsewhere... that is just stupidity.

  9. #9
    Work Hard, Play Harder
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    I wish I could sympathize with those here who bash their LBS, however mine treats me great. I just bought a specialized allez elite triple which lists for 1300 dollars on the specialized website. Got the bike and a set of 90 dollar spd 540's for my mountain bike for 1,100 dollars. He also gave me a sick deal on a bunch of other stuff I bought. i guess it all depends where ya go.
    06 Rocky Mountain ETSX - Full XTR, Fox Shox, Crossmax XL Wheels

  10. #10
    Formerly DMR For Life
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resnick
    So I'm all for supporting the local shops but where do you draw the line. I decided I wanted to get Crankbrothers pedals, so I head out to my LBS. I looked at Candy C's and a pair of last years adidas shoes price is $280 + tax(15%). The only way the guy could justify his price was, "Support you LBS...Man". So I decided not to spend that much. I went through blue sky got Candy SL's and 06 Speeder shoes for $145 after exchange and shipping. So I've decided that until my LBS stops over charging then my LBS is the internet.

    I agree there are a couple of threads on here about how the canadian distributors mark up there prices a lot more than necessary

    example. I was shopping a bit for a 'Zochhi 66RC2X Norco's price is 1700 with shipping and exchange from the stated around 1000

    I'll I use my LBS (which is a 30-45 min drive) is for wrenching that I can't do and the ocassional tool or tube

    DMR

  11. #11
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    You have to haggle a bit at your LBS. With a little haggling I usually get pretty much the price I would've got by ordering online including shipping, duties etc.

    On a bike I've been looking at they offered me a price below what I was able to find online and I dind't have to wait, I didn't have to pay shipping, and I could test it out.

    On a side note, it bugs me when people waste a sales persons time, try out stuff, test ride a bike with no intention of buying it from them because they just wanna try it out before they buy online.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbgobie
    On a side note, it bugs me when people waste a sales persons time, try out stuff, test ride a bike with no intention of buying it from them because they just wanna try it out before they buy online.
    That only bothers me when I have to wait because of them.

  13. #13
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    Internet places are cheaper because they don't have to run a store, which is quite expensive. LBS have stores, warehouses, and online stores, wheareas the online places have less amount of people working because they only have a warehouse, no salesmen needed.
    pUt Da LiMe In Da CoKe YoU nUt


  14. #14
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    My closest LBS is about 5 hours away... kinda knocks the "L" out of LBS but they are good people (at least that's been my experience with them so far). For some things it's just way more convenient to order to my door rather than drive 5 hours each way. I've never bought a bike online though, I go to the shop for that. I'm going to see how well they treat me next month (I have to go to the city they're in for other reasons) once I decide whether I want to upgrade my Hardrock Sport Disc or sell/trade it in. Right now I'm leaning towards upgrading the fork and riding it this year and looking into a FS ride next year but if they talk to me right I may do it sooner.

  15. #15
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    One thing that I find strange is that there are a lot of LBS on the web that are able to offer very competitive prices if not price match competitors. When I bought my last bike I got it from a "Web LBS." The experience was great. Later when I was in the city that the shop was located I stopped in for a visit. It looks just like all the other LBS in my hometown. Which are of average size.

    An example of what I am talking about is when I was looking for another shock for my bike. I searched the web and then called the shop where I bought the bike. I knew what the online places were selling the shock for and waited for the price from the "Web LBS." He said that the shock was NOT in stock and he would have to try to track one down and gave me a price of a few dollars more than what was offered by the other larger retailers on the web. He then asked, "what other prices do you have and I told him and he said that he will match it plus some." Then when the shock arrived it was packed with several t shirts, winter riding gloves, and some ankle guards. Talk about service from a LBS that simply has a website/webstore.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by be350ka
    One thing that I find strange is that there are a lot of LBS on the web that are able to offer very competitive prices if not price match competitors...
    (one of) My other hobby(ies) is playing guitar. The instrument industry has the same 'LBS' type mantra...support your local mom and pop music store, the internet/Guitarcenter is ruining it for everyone, etc.

    My local mom and pop music store has had stuff on the floor that is many years old (read: old technology) that they still asked original MSRP for. On at least three occasions, I've made them offers on some of this older gear, in line with prices available online. On at least three occasions, they have told me they couldn't possibly sell it for so little, as they'd go out of business.

    OK.

    Last year, they started an eBay store. Guess where all of that old gear went? And at best they made what I, a local customer, offered them. I call it the 'cut off your nose to spite your face' syndrome. Either the local customer is subsidizing the 'loss' of the online sales, or the local customer is taking a bath only because they're local and not aware of what stuff is available for online.

    This originally upset me. Then I decided that they can do whatever they want. I don't have to shop there and I don't need to feel guilty for asking for a price match from online or Guitarcenter. It's a (mostly) free market, after all.

    I wonder how the owner of the music store can justify jacking the prices up and claiming hardship when given an offer on old gear, then turning around and selling it across the internet for less. Ultimatley, though, I don't care. He calls the tune. I don't care to dance.

    (Sorry for the rambling thoughts, I'm in a stream-of-consciousness mood today<G>)

  17. #17
    Work Hard, Play Harder
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    Maybe some LBS's do charge a little more but I know that when I break a part my LBS is ridiculously quick to warranty it. Usually right on the spot I have my new part. Try and get that type of service from an online retailer. You will be damn lucky if they even warranty the part at all. I'm not saying I never buy parts online, because I do, but I'm sure if you do some searching you will find a LBS that has competetive prices and great service.
    06 Rocky Mountain ETSX - Full XTR, Fox Shox, Crossmax XL Wheels

  18. #18
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    My LBS is in a rich part of my county and it pisses me off that kids there are getting $1500 cannondales and XTR components and **** and everyone working at the shop are total *****bags. when i took in my bike to get new brake pads the guy rideculed me "hey why the hell did you buy upgrade to a better fork and disk brakes on a walmart bike" Why do they have to ask questions and talk **** about my bike? ( i know its not good but im a kid and can't afford any better things ) but they lost a customer now so whatever, even though their in buisness by ****ing rich *******s that have social status defined by how much money their bikes were all their other bike related crap, and laugh and look down upon me cause i have a low end bike. SHUT THE **** UP AND RIDE sorry for the rant, but i thought riding bikes no matter what form of it was a friendly sport.. guess not

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    Bike shops suck. Most don't DESERVE support. Support also is NOT paying more for a part you can get for much cheaper elsewhere... that is just stupidity.
    I can see you are an MBA candidate.

    I hope someday you may see the value in building a relationship with a shop.

    I have had nothing but good experiences with bike shops. I have been more screwed over in online purchases- including a "lost" return- where I was billed, they sent the wrong size, and NEVER credited my account after I returned it. I have made purchases of extra things I did not need so I could receive free shipping, only to have the item I really DID need not show up because it was out of stock (I'd rather have cancelled the entire order had I known).

    At my LBS, they accepted a return of a bike I had ridden more than a month when I simply did not like it. I upgraded to something I was happy with. I had a frameset built up from nothing-- and I could hand pick each part. They built it at a very competitive price- and handled a warranty issue. Same shop let me use their workroom for free to build up a fixed gear and two commuter bikes. I have had all sorts of minor work done for free- for no apparent reason other than I had something interesting to work on.

    I won't kid you though, I rarely buy clothing at the LBS, or shoes. I am 50% on pedals. But this is partly due to selection.

    I think a lot of people spend more money trying to save money (buying things they don't need, or that doesn't fit--- online, because it was a "good deal.").

    Having moved overseas, everything is expensive. The idea is that everyone needs to make a living. One of the benefits is that I was able to purchase an Italian-built mtnbike much cheaper than I could in the US--- but of course, here, US brands are more costly.

  20. #20
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    I think it depends on what your after.

    I buy stuff like pedals online but just bought a new bike from the LBS which I got 200AU off RRP + $50 gloves + $60 shock pump + year of free servicing inluded so I reckon thats a pretty good deal.

    Specially for someone like me who's not very clued into bike maintanence.

    Although... they did send the wrong bike the first time but hard to know whether that was LBS or supplier

  21. #21
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    I'd admit that most of my parts arrive in the post, rather than at the bike shop.That's because I'm precious about the bike and prefer to carry out my own servicing, so I can fit most of the parts myself. This being the case, I find it daft to spend more than I have to at the lbs and have them fit parts I can fit myself.

    Having said that, I leave things like facing, fork chopping and headset fitting to the lbs, as the tools are expensive enough not to make it worthwhile doing it myself.

    I also buy clothes, shoes, saddles and helmets at the lbs, as these are too personal to buy on the web.

    I've spent roughly £250 in the last 12 months at the lbs. That compares to about £700 on parts on the web but half of that was from a bs with a internet site (Merlin), while the other half was from Chain Reaction.

  22. #22
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    Growing up in a family that owned and operated a small store (office supplies), I can see both sides of this issue. While I'm not gonna sit here and say that big-box stores and internet wharehouse sites are ruining the world, these more often than not do no favors to the customer, when you figure it out.

    The LBS is indeed selling parts, but they're really selling SERVICE. If you're comfortable with saving 2% on a dozen items only to be treated more like an annoyance than a customer who's laying down hard-earned cash, who am I to stop ya?

    I'm not gonna say that every LBS deserves your business simply because they're local. I've had my fair share of bad experiences with shops that treated me like a jerk, as well as internet sites that did the same. The simple answer? I just don't buy from those shops OR those sites. Problem solved.

    Personally, I do almost all my business through my LBS. Upgrades, maintenance, repairs, everything gets handled through them when I don't have the time or talent to do something. I've bought almost every piece of riding gear through one or two LBSs as well. That's just what makes me comfortable.

    I'm not indicting either way, as they're both valid ways to obtain necessary items. You have to weigh both options and decide which is the best way to go for you. I was lucky in that I've been able to build up a rapport with my LBS (they've sold 6 Trek Police Packages and 4 or 5 Gary Fishers from people I've sent there), and therefore get treated right when I go in there. Will it be the same for you? Maybe, but you'll never know unless you try.

    Like most things in life, the best choice is probably a compromise between both choices.

    Ross

    P.S. I'm thinking it's probably Mr. Nomad's attitude that gets him the quick and courteous service. I mean, have you read any other posts coming from him? I know I'D be hopping up and down to wait on the guy...
    "I don't wanna die without any scars. So come on, let's do it before I lose my nerve" - Tyler Durden (Fight Club, Chuck Palahniuk)

  23. #23
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    TO K.I.S.S (Keep It Simple Stupid)

    If you know how to:

    - Fix your brakes (change pads, minor adjustment and drain/refill oil etc...)
    - True your wheels with proper tools
    - Adjust your drivetrain to shift properly (understand low and high screws)
    - Use Torx Wrench
    - Use your brain

    Then you "probably" won't need your LBS for much. If you break your fork (leaking, bottoming out etc...) or your rear shock fails and the LBS is not an authorized dealer they probably won't be able to help you anyway (unless they rig it onsite, but again is that what you're looking for?). Be nice to your LBS for days when you just don't have time to "Do it Yourself" and figure it out readin the Zinn book. If he wants to overcharge for labor because he thinks you buy stuff online (may be your whole bike, may be just parts) because online is cheaper well........that's life.

    Keep on buying online and only take bike to LBS when you don't have time to figure out or fix yourself (then learn about the fix on google so you can do it next time). Learn to ab-USE your LBS just like they ab-USE you ($96 for an XT front derailleur when you just happend to need one NOW) and do it with a smile on your face.

    THe moral of the story is.............LEARN HOW TO FIX A BIKE......I had to learn pretty fast (Entire weekends in the garage and the occasional LBS trip if fix is urgent).

    USE THEM JUST LIKE THEY USE YOU :-) and do it with a HAPPY FACE!

  24. #24
    Formerly DMR For Life
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU_Grad_121
    Growing up in a family that owned and operated a small store (office supplies), I can see both sides of this issue. While I'm not gonna sit here and say that big-box stores and internet wharehouse sites are ruining the world, these more often than not do no favors to the customer, when you figure it out.

    The LBS is indeed selling parts, but they're really selling SERVICE. If you're comfortable with saving 2% on a dozen items only to be treated more like an annoyance than a customer who's laying down hard-earned cash, who am I to stop ya?...
    I disagree with the above statment...in canada (where the OP is from) prices here are between 20-40% higher than we can bring parts in from the states for. this is because the distributors in canada choose to gouge customers it has nothing to do with the LBS's themselves. see here

    Quote Originally Posted by MSU_Grad_121
    I'm not gonna say that every LBS deserves your business simply because they're local. I've had my fair share of bad experiences with shops that treated me like a jerk, as well as internet sites that did the same. The simple answer? I just don't buy from those shops OR those sites. Problem solved.

    Personally, I do almost all my business through my LBS. Upgrades, maintenance, repairs, everything gets handled through them when I don't have the time or talent to do something. I've bought almost every piece of riding gear through one or two LBSs as well. That's just what makes me comfortable.

    I'm not indicting either way, as they're both valid ways to obtain necessary items. You have to weigh both options and decide which is the best way to go for you. I was lucky in that I've been able to build up a rapport with my LBS (they've sold 6 Trek Police Packages and 4 or 5 Gary Fishers from people I've sent there), and therefore get treated right when I go in there. Will it be the same for you? Maybe, but you'll never know unless you try.

    Like most things in life, the best choice is probably a compromise between both choices.

    Ross

    P.S. I'm thinking it's probably Mr. Nomad's attitude that gets him the quick and courteous service. I mean, have you read any other posts coming from him? I know I'D be hopping up and down to wait on the guy...
    I agree with the rest of the post

    DMR

  25. #25
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    i've been going to the same LBS for 10+ years. when i was a little i used to pedal my schwinn up to the shop (about 15 miles) and check out all the new bikes. years and years have gone by, i still go there..except now it is an hour drive. it is the first place i consider when purchasing anything.

    i know i can spend less online at times and at closer LBS, i'm sure that makes me a "stupid" consumer...but it doesn't make me a "better" one. if i take a stroll in there, i talk to them about years past, politics, trails, horrible riding partners, old schwinn homegrowns, get probably one of the best tune-up services, and walk out always happy. i love my LBS, the front is not littered with cars, the employees and owner ride their bikes to the shop, they have an absolute love for bikes.

    the closer LBS...it just seems so tense, everything they say sounds like they memorized the manufacturer's description, processed, and dull. you may not want to support yours, but i will sure as heck support mine.

  26. #26
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    Most of my stuff comes from cyberspace now. Same with a couple of my riding pals.

    It just comes down to this - I can get a greater range of stuff all for pretty much half what I would pay locally. A couple of my local shops don't show a lot of interest when you ask about something they don't have in stock. And one is run by people who I'm sure don't even ride.

    I can do most of my own wrench work too..

    My next project is to build a bike solely from online sources.

    So for me it's just "Bah humbug" to my LBS's.
    Less isn't MOAR

  27. #27
    pronounced may-duh
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    Quote Originally Posted by routergod
    TO K.I.S.S (Keep It Simple Stupid)

    If you know how to:

    - Fix your brakes (change pads, minor adjustment and drain/refill oil etc...)
    - True your wheels with proper tools
    - Adjust your drivetrain to shift properly (understand low and high screws)
    - Use Torx Wrench
    - Use your brain

    Then you "probably" won't need your LBS for much. If you break your fork (leaking, bottoming out etc...) or your rear shock fails and the LBS is not an authorized dealer they probably won't be able to help you anyway (unless they rig it onsite, but again is that what you're looking for?). Be nice to your LBS for days when you just don't have time to "Do it Yourself" and figure it out readin the Zinn book. If he wants to overcharge for labor because he thinks you buy stuff online (may be your whole bike, may be just parts) because online is cheaper well........that's life.

    Keep on buying online and only take bike to LBS when you don't have time to figure out or fix yourself (then learn about the fix on google so you can do it next time). Learn to ab-USE your LBS just like they ab-USE you ($96 for an XT front derailleur when you just happend to need one NOW) and do it with a smile on your face.

    THe moral of the story is.............LEARN HOW TO FIX A BIKE......I had to learn pretty fast (Entire weekends in the garage and the occasional LBS trip if fix is urgent).

    USE THEM JUST LIKE THEY USE YOU :-) and do it with a HAPPY FACE!
    This is my method. I was a mechanic in a bike shop. I have the tools and the ability. I buy almost everything on line and do all my own work. But occasionaly I need a bolt or something so I have to go to the LBS. A few weeks ago a snaped a brake bolt. They charged me 2.00 for a new bolt. Heck the bolt was a bit scratched up it may have been used. Now 2.00 is not a lot of cash but it is 10 times what that bolt is worth. But I'm not complaining cause they had the bolt when I needed it and I paid for the convienance.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maida7
    This is my method. I was a mechanic in a bike shop. I have the tools and the ability. I buy almost everything on line and do all my own work. But occasionaly I need a bolt or something so I have to go to the LBS. A few weeks ago a snaped a brake bolt. They charged me 2.00 for a new bolt. Heck the bolt was a bit scratched up it may have been used. Now 2.00 is not a lot of cash but it is 10 times what that bolt is worth. But I'm not complaining cause they had the bolt when I needed it and I paid for the convienance.
    We get spoiled with in house discounts, they are sweet!!

    Yup your better off supporting the LBS as long as you can find one with real people because when you need them it's great to know there their. Funny how we dont realize how much we rely on a place till the doors close.

  29. #29
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    I normally buy most of my stuff online and do my own work. I've bought a floor pump and some Stans sealant at the LBS. They saved me today, I was looking for a stop screw for my XTR rear derailer it sits next to the upper pulley. Drew went in the back pulled on off a junk derailer and gave it to me. Yes i bought a tube for my road bike when i got it. Support your LBS if you can you may need them one day.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Yup your better off supporting the LBS as long as you can find one with real people because when you need them it's great to know there their. Funny how we dont realize how much we rely on a place till the doors close.
    Wow, that's cool, coming from a guy who pimps IBEX all the time!

    Nah, in all seriousness, while the Canadians are getting straight gouged by their distributors, I think for most of us, we'd hate to see the LBSs go away. Most of us, anyway. They truly do come in handy.

    Ross
    "I don't wanna die without any scars. So come on, let's do it before I lose my nerve" - Tyler Durden (Fight Club, Chuck Palahniuk)

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU_Grad_121
    Wow, that's cool, coming from a guy who pimps IBEX all the time!

    Ross
    I have to drive about 35+ minutes for my favorite LBS. There are many around my & the actuall LBS is 10 minutes away burned my family 3 times so i finally said byby after buying 3 bikes from them. My LDBS "Long Distance Bike Shop" is awsome great group of fools like myself.

    http://www.sunshinebicycle.com/

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    the actuall LBS is 10 minutes away burned my family 3 times so i finally said byby after buying 3 bikes from them.
    That's my point. If a website burned you like that, would you go back to them, simply because they advertise having lower prices? In the end, lower price isn't always what it cracks up to be. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying don't buy online, but I'd carefully consider it and weigh out both options. Like most things in life, the ideal solution is gonna be a balance between the LBS and on-line retailers.

    Ross
    "I don't wanna die without any scars. So come on, let's do it before I lose my nerve" - Tyler Durden (Fight Club, Chuck Palahniuk)

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU_Grad_121
    That's my point. If a website burned you like that, would you go back to them, simply because they advertise having lower prices? In the end, lower price isn't always what it cracks up to be. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying don't buy online, but I'd carefully consider it and weigh out both options. Like most things in life, the ideal solution is gonna be a balance between the LBS and on-line retailers.

    Ross
    RossRossRoss you get so emotional sometimes.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    RossRossRoss you get so emotional sometimes.
    What are emotions? Are those like socks? Cuz I've got socks...

    Ross
    "I don't wanna die without any scars. So come on, let's do it before I lose my nerve" - Tyler Durden (Fight Club, Chuck Palahniuk)

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    So my first post, I was a bit bitter. I have started dealing with a new LBS, I bought a 2 new bikes from them. They fit me and my wife to new bikes and I'm am extremely happy with the service. BUT I am still going to buy the majority of my parts online unless I can't wait the shipping time for the part. I'll have the bike shop install the parts like I did for the padels(I could have done this on my own but hey I just bought a bike from them).

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resnick
    So my first post, I was a bit bitter. I have started dealing with a new LBS, I bought a 2 new bikes from them. They fit me and my wife to new bikes and I'm am extremely happy with the service. BUT I am still going to buy the majority of my parts online unless I can't wait the shipping time for the part. I'll have the bike shop install the parts like I did for the padels(I could have done this on my own but hey I just bought a bike from them).
    Something you might try next time, print the online price & bring it to the LBS. See if they have what your looking for, if they do then mention you can get this item for this price can you give me a better price? They may not match the price because they need to make something on the product but they may give you a good price & you get the item now.

  37. #37
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    Support your local LBS ... BS
    hehe. You said support your local local bike shop. hehe

    Wow i'm and idiot and 1:00 a.m.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by kylejohn4543
    hehe. You said support your local local bike shop. hehe

    Wow i'm and idiot and 1:00 a.m.
    I suggest Ibex, Versus, Galfer & others but i am not anti LBS. The companys i suggest are because they they have great customer service & the products for the price are very good. I actuall do have a LBS that i go to for parts, advise, drop off some beers & drink 1 while there & enjoy good people. For me it is great i am into the moto industry ao when i go there they want to talk moto & i want to talk MTB, it's good. I will also add that the LBS i go to is 35+ minutes away from me because the so called LBS ( 3 of them ) are worthless & that drive is 5 minutes away.

    Forgot to mention i send customers to them also, out of 20 people i send maybe 2 take advantage of a great shop.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    I've bought 99% of my stuff from internet retailers. Last December I wanted to upgrade my brakes, and I knew I wanted some Magura FRs. They were $175 online, a really good price for the '05 model. I tried to make a deal with my LBS. I explained how I could get the brakes for a lot less online, but that I wanted to do business with his shop. He offered to come down to $200 per brake. Ok, that's still $50 more than I would have paid, but I felt like I was supporting my local LBS.

    I got the brakes and immediately bad things started happening. They discovered my frame was cracked. A replacement frame was shipped from the dealer, and my LBS faced the head tube for free. Next, the front brake was the wrong size. Once this was recognized, the LBS ordered the correct size caliper at no charge. Then the fork's tabs needed to be faced--a lot. I took it in twice for facing at no extra charge. Then the rear brake tabs needed to be faced. I guess he got tired of doing all the work for free and charged me a whopping $10 to face and shim the rear brake.

    I don't know what I would have spent had I ordered the brakes online, but it would have been more than $50.
    man you should have bought him some beer and gave him a tip too
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    man you should have bought him some beer and gave him a tip too
    Keep the tap flowing!!!

  41. #41
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    I love my LBS, well there's two I go to one closer which is for smaller purchases like helms and tubes. But, when I got my bike I went to the not so close one, I got my raleigh wich they were selling for $600 for only $400, since me and my dad are long time customers they hook us up good, and the service is great.

  42. #42
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    For all intents and purposes if you are going to compare the price of parts at a LBS to an online retailer, you have to factor in the cost of Next Day Air. To be honest this is still not a true apples to apples comparison but its the closest we're going to get. Now, when you have any kind of store you have massive amounts of overhead such as rent/mortgage, utilities, insurance, etc. What many fail to realize is that every product sitting in the shop is costing money on a daily basis. I'm not too familiar with the bike industry (I'm in auto parts) but I'm sure its similar. Depending on what kind of deal the shop has with the distributor/manufacturer payment is due in numerous ways. They can be required to pre-pay before delivery or they can buy on terms which is usually 30 days. If a shop decides to pre-pay, they are tying up money which will not be available until the product is sold. In essence every day a part sits in the shop it icosts the owner money in "lost" or "unrealized" gains. I can write all day on this but I'm going to stop here hoping I presented a basic foundation.

    There are numerous reasons customers will purchase from a certain retailer, which the most important being service. With the exception of big box retailers who make their money on high volume dales, a small shop owner does not want you as a customer if your only concern is price. Why? As a consumer, if you base of all your purchasing decisions on price, as quick as you were to buy from Store A, you will buy from Store B if they offer a lower price. Thus you're not that "valuable" to a small business owner as you're going to hop around no matter what he does. There is a basic marketing principle called 80-20, that is 80% of your business comes from 20% of your customer base. This is usually comprised of people who value service and respect more than what they are spending.

    There is a basic finance principle called "There is no free lunch." As soon as you can grasp that fact, you will look at the world completely different.

    Lastly, not to be taken the wrong way, but many Canadian customers are a little fuzzy when it comes to "importing" products from the USA. Here are some things to consider. First and foremost, it costs more to ship to Canada than it does domestically. These cost include actual freight charges and brokerage fees (which is usually passed onto the customer). Second, most payment services charge fees for "international" orders. For example our credit card processor charges us 2.2% of the total sale + 30 cents on every transaction. For those with Canadian issued credit cards, we are charged 3.2% so right off the bat we're "losing" money. Last but certainly not least is duty. Duty charges can add up quickly, especially on high value items. When a small business orders products that add up to a significant amount, they must declare the value of the contents for proper insurance. This value is then used to calculate duty. So if a shop orders $5000 worth of merchandise, they are going to insure the package for the value of its contents. If they don't and the package is lost, they'll recover $100 at most. The declared value of the package is then used to calculate duty. My point? Duty is a huge gamble. If you don't want to pay it then you have to take the risk that you can possibly lose whatever you paid and either have a damaged product or no product at all.

    Thanks for reading...

  43. #43
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    It's not just the over head of the local bike shop but also the MSRP. Notice the S in it. That is supposed to be the suggested retail price but the wholesalers (and there is only 2 for the big name parts) hang the threat of pulling stock if the suggested retail is not followed. This is supposed to do 2 things 1. Level the playing field between the big shops and the smaller shops 2. Not devalue the manufacturer’s product.
    Another thing Canadian wholesalers like Norco do is that no company can make more sales from the internet than from their shop. Again this is supposed to level the playing field so that territories can be maintained and everyone has overhead. Unfortunately what this means that the mark up on part and bikes is insane.
    In Canada this is supposed to be covered under the anti competition laws but what do you do when you supplier stops selling you stock until the issue is resolved. You lose your business so nobody fights it.
    Competition laws in Canada state: 1. a wholesaler cannot tell a retailer how to distribute product 2. A wholesaler cannot determine at what price a retailer sells an item for...

    Unfortunately if they sell the part for too cheap not only are they loosing money on a product that they don’t have to compete against other stores on but the wholesaler can also refuse to sell to them if they do it too often. I think this is also called price fixing....

    Trust me I have been trying to get Canadian wholesalers to sell to me and they wont because 1. I may maintain a store but i will also do internet business 2. I will sell it for what my customers can afford and wont follow the msrp. It's not about the bike store and the manufactors, its about getting people out on the trails and doing something they enjoy.

  44. #44
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    It sounds like you're talking about MAP (minimum advertised price) rules to an extent, which are enforced by the manufacturer. It may look like the wholesaler is coming down on you but its the manufacturer whose coming down on them. A wholesaler wants you to move as much product as possible since they make their money in volume sales. If news gets back to the manufacturer that you are violating policy they are going to reduce the wholesalers discount rate.

    Believe me, it sounds illegal but there's a very fine line. Businesses have the right to refuse business to anyone. They are merely "suggesting" you sell something at a certain price, they are not demanding it. When you try to buy more, they are going to either not do business with your or increase your price.

  45. #45
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    http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/i...emID=1172&lg=e

    Once you have a previous business relationship with a wholesaler these rules start. Previous relationship is considered 1 year. The wholesaler has the right to refuse to initially sell but once they do sell to you they cannot refuse to fill your orders unless you default on your payment. I am not going to mention names as i don't want to get anyone in trouble but a bike store in Sherwood Park, AB lost its Marzocchi line after another bike store found out they were selling stock at a discount out the back door. The other bike store called the wholesaler and told on them and the marzocchi lines were pulled.
    Anyways the whole point is that we are overcharged for bike parts. The manufactorers and the bike shops aren't what this sport is about. If you can save some money on bike parts so you can go on the next big trip i say buy internet. Trust me bike stores aren't starving.

  46. #46
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    My LBS treated me really well. Then I tried to get the Polygon rotors changed for Clean Sweeps to stop the Juicy's on my new bike shuddering (under warranty, bike was brand new) Then they started lying to me and making stuff up. Now they aren't my LBS.

    Me: "Hmmm so Sram told you those washers are supposed to be between the caliper and the adapter hmmm???"

    LBS: "That's right, I spoke to them this morning. That was the way recommended by Sram to fix the Juicys. Apparently the brakes weren't installed properly and these washers were missing, we found them in the pack."

    Me: "Interesting I have an email here from Sram saying they are aware of the washer fix and do not recommend it. They advise that you (LBS) should ring them and organise a rotor swap."

    LBS: "Oh errrrm,,, hey why don't we swap those rotors for these Clean Sweeps sitting on this shelf.

    Me: "Yeah, good idea (ponders talking to the manager)"

  47. #47
    A little south of sanity
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    Hmm, well I am 50/50 on the "Support your LBS" issue. I bought my bike from Walmart. but I took it to one of my LBS to get it tuned up. while there he offered me a good deal on a Rock Shox rear shock for 90 bucks instaled, bam he just made himself some money because I had been looking at the prices of the rock shox online and with him putting it in and shimming it and all was included in that 90 bucks. he threw in some new grips (WTB lock on grips, WAY better than the ones that were on there) and he showed me how to properly adjust my disc brakes. So all in all I had a good experience with this LBS, however I can see the point some people are making as to getting things cheaper online, most retail shops cant match the net with low overhead and hogh volume, most E-shops are able to undercut any LBS by quite a bit. to me its a balance, support your LBS when you can, but dont feel bad when you cant, bottom line is its a buyers market so get the best deal you can.

  48. #48
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    howdy all, im new here, but just wanted to toss out my couple a pennies worth...
    i used to be very passionate about supporting lbs's, then one day i just got tired of kids treating me like i didnt know anything about bikes, salespersons unwilling to offer deals, and the shop rarely having what i wanted... i buy lube and tubes at the lbs, everything else i buy online. id pay the extra for good customer service, too bad it dont exist here.
    WARNING: Riding with improperly adjusted brakes or bake pads is dangerous and can result in serious injury or death.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pootin
    http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/i...emID=1172&lg=e

    Once you have a previous business relationship with a wholesaler these rules start. Previous relationship is considered 1 year. The wholesaler has the right to refuse to initially sell but once they do sell to you they cannot refuse to fill your orders unless you default on your payment. I am not going to mention names as i don't want to get anyone in trouble but a bike store in Sherwood Park, AB lost its Marzocchi line after another bike store found out they were selling stock at a discount out the back door. The other bike store called the wholesaler and told on them and the marzocchi lines were pulled.
    Anyways the whole point is that we are overcharged for bike parts. The manufactorers and the bike shops aren't what this sport is about. If you can save some money on bike parts so you can go on the next big trip i say buy internet. Trust me bike stores aren't starving.
    Check out Vertical Constraints - http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/i...temID=111&lg=e

    The thing to realize is nothing comes free. The thing many don't realize is that retail sales is not just sales but also revolves around service. The service part of a company is pretty expensive when converted to a monetary value. The main reason most internet companies can keep prices down is they have eliminated most of the service aspect from the equation, as well as the conveinance factor. When you walk into a bike shop, 9 times out of 10 someone will walk over to help you. That service is compounded into your purchase price of whatever product you are buying. Eliminating that aspect would leave you as the customer to help yourself. The only "help" you'll receive is at the point of sale (POS) when its time to trade product for cash.

  50. #50
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    Maybe for you USA guys it's only 2% or 10% or whatever, but for us Canadian guys it's redicoulous. Case in point?

    I wanted to buy two things:
    Avid SD Ultimate Brake Levers
    Avid Full Metal Jacket Brake lines for my BB7s.

    I asked my LBS how much:
    brake levers 330 CDN
    Brake lines 79.99 CDN, both were not instock and required atleast 4 buisness days to get. I would have to add 15% sales tax to the order as well.
    Total price would've been $471 CDN

    I called another LBS and that is the same price they quoted me, that is MSRP

    From Jenson USA I got
    AVID SD Ultimate for 165 USD
    AVID FMJ Brake lines for 24 USD
    Shimano CN7701 XTR chain for 22 USD
    Shimano chain pins, 10 peices for 10 USD
    XT Shifters for 65 USD
    Total = 285 + 26 shipping = 311 USD
    Which is 348 CDN assuming 1.12 exchange rate. Fedex truck showed up and asked for 30.41 CDN for taxes and duty. Total bill came out to be $378 CDN. It showed up 2 days later

    LBS: $471 CDN
    JENSON: $378 CDN and I got a lot more stuff I wanted.

    The exchange rate between the CDN and USD is crazy right now. I use to remember when 1 cdn dollar was worth 60 cents USD. now 1 cdn dollar is worth 90 cents USD. WOW!

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